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Zero
I'm curious to see how Dak will do without being able to lean on Elliot's production. I know the Cowboys still have decent RBs, but I'm sure the running game will be less effective without their best player. How Prescott does will be interesting and will add a dimension to the Wentz/Prescott comparison.
Joegrane
I think RBs are overrated by fans. the backup RBs in Dallas are not bad and they are following that good Oline. I'm not saying there will be no difference, just not a huge one.

QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 12 2017, 08:35 AM) *
I'm curious to see how Dak will do without being able to lean on Elliot's production. I know the Cowboys still have decent RBs, but I'm sure the running game will be less effective without their best player. How Prescott does will be interesting and will add a dimension to the Wentz/Prescott comparison.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Nov 12 2017, 10:47 AM) *
I think RBs are overrated by fans. the backup RBs in Dallas are not bad and they are following that good Oline. I'm not saying there will be no difference, just not a huge one.

Agree with this.
Zero
None of their other backs get the yards after contact that Elliot does. I think there'll be a noticeable difference in their offense.
Dreagon
It's sort of interesting how Prescott and Wentz became joined in the minds of many NFL watchers as this pair to be held up against one another. I'm sure it's due to them being drafted in the same year, but I'll be curious to see if Goff will start being included in the comparisons now that he is doing better. At this point I wonder if Paxton Lynch will even sniff being in the same conversation.

But the Dak/Carson thing is also positive since it means we actually are set with franchise QBs for now. Washington, as always, is a year to year mystery in that department until they either sign Cousins or finally let him go.

As for NY? Who here thinks that high first round pick coming their way is going to be used for Eli's replacement?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Nov 12 2017, 02:54 PM) *
It's sort of interesting how Prescott and Wentz became joined in the minds of many NFL watchers as this pair to be held up against one another. I'm sure it's due to them being drafted in the same year, but I'll be curious to see if Goff will start being included in the comparisons now that he is doing better. At this point I wonder if Paxton Lynch will even sniff being in the same conversation.

But the Dak/Carson thing is also positive since it means we actually are set with franchise QBs for now. Washington, as always, is a year to year mystery in that department until they either sign Cousins or finally let him go.

As for NY? Who here thinks that high first round pick coming their way is going to be used for Eli's replacement?

I do. It's a good time for both parties to move on.
Joegrane
No way, rebuild that O Line in NY and Eli should bounce back. They were crazy for exposing an older QB to the rush with such a poor O line. They won't compete with Philly until they do.

I always thought it was dumb to draft lots of skill position players before the O Line is ready for them. Also the big guys play ten years in the NFL, that increases the value of picking O Line higher in the draft.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 12 2017, 03:47 PM) *
I do. It's a good time for both parties to move on.
JeeQ
RB's are always overrated until you lose a talented one

I feel like we've finally recovered from losing Shady

Mathews and Murray were absolute trash on this offense and it showed

We finally have decent RBs and we're #1 in the league - not a coincidence
Joegrane
Would have been interesting to have seen a reasonably healthy R Matthews behind this year's O Line. He had the speed to threaten on the outside plus decent power.

QUOTE (JeeQ @ Nov 15 2017, 07:07 PM) *
RB's are always overrated until you lose a talented one

I feel like we've finally recovered from losing Shady

Mathews and Murray were absolute trash on this offense and it showed

We finally have decent RBs and we're #1 in the league - not a coincidence

Phits
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Nov 15 2017, 07:07 PM) *
RB's are always overrated until you lose a talented one

Speaking of coincidences; How many recent SB's have featured a "talented RB"? Who is the most recent "talented" RB to win a Superbowl? or to play in a SB? or a Conference championship game?

QUOTE
I feel like we've finally recovered from losing Shady

Speaking of 'Shady', How many winning seasons have the Bills had since acquiring this "talented RB"?
The Franchise
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Nov 15 2017, 08:07 PM) *
We finally have decent RBs and we're #1 in the league - not a coincidence


True, but we're also finally USING them as well.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 15 2017, 09:10 PM) *
Speaking of coincidences; How many recent SB's have featured a "talented RB"? Who is the most recent "talented" RB to win a Superbowl? or to play in a SB? or a Conference championship game?


Last year had Blount and Freeman. The year before were two RB committees in Denver and Carolina. Before that was Blount and Lynch. Before that was Lynch vs. a Denver RB committee. Before that was Rice and Gore.

So 7 out of the last 10 teams to play in the SB had a legit RB. The committees mentioned involved guys like Anderson, Moreno, and Stewart, no slouches. I'm not going to bother looking into the championship games, but I'd wager roughly the same results will be found there.

Phits
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Nov 15 2017, 08:20 PM) *
Last year had Blount and Freeman. The year before were two RB committees in Denver and Carolina. Before that was Blount and Lynch. Before that was Lynch vs. a Denver RB committee. Before that was Rice and Gore.

So 7 out of the last 10 teams to play in the SB had a legit RB. The committees mentioned involved guys like Anderson, Moreno, and Stewart, no slouches. I'm not going to bother looking into the championship games, but I'd wager roughly the same results will be found there.

Most NFL teams have a "legit RB". You will tend to find improved RB play when your QB play is improved. Makes you wonder if there is a bigger correlation with quality QB play vs RB production and the success of a team?

Almost all of those SB teams are/were QB driven and could easily swap out their RB with another without missing a beat.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Nov 15 2017, 08:20 PM) *
Last year had Blount and Freeman. The year before were two RB committees in Denver and Carolina. Before that was Blount and Lynch. Before that was Lynch vs. a Denver RB committee. Before that was Rice and Gore.

So 7 out of the last 10 teams to play in the SB had a legit RB. The committees mentioned involved guys like Anderson, Moreno, and Stewart, no slouches. I'm not going to bother looking into the championship games, but I'd wager roughly the same results will be found there.


Phits makes a good point. In the last 10 SB:
2017 Freeman had 75 yards and Blount had 31 - Freeman could not run out the clock.
2016 Anderson was not a RB by committee, he had 23 carries for 90 yards and Carolina could not run the ball
2015 Blount ran for next to nothing and Lynch was a monster in a loss
2014 Nobody ran for shit in this one including Lynch
2013 Rice was not real great but Gore was in a loss
2012 Bradshaw was ok with 72 yards and no one did much for the Pats
2011 The leaders had 52 and 63 yards rushing, enough said
2010 Addai had 77 yards in a loss and the Saints won with their best guy getting 30
2009 Nobody ran for anything
2008 Another game with no real RB contribution

So in the last 10 years only 3 or 4 RBs from the winner or loser did anything of distinction

Eagle2720
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 16 2017, 01:01 AM) *
Phits makes a good point. In the last 10 SB:
2017 Freeman had 75 yards and Blount had 31 - Freeman could not run out the clock.
2016 Anderson was not a RB by committee, he had 23 carries for 90 yards and Carolina could not run the ball
2015 Blount ran for next to nothing and Lynch was a monster in a loss
2014 Nobody ran for shit in this one including Lynch
2013 Rice was not real great but Gore was in a loss
2012 Bradshaw was ok with 72 yards and no one did much for the Pats
2011 The leaders had 52 and 63 yards rushing, enough said
2010 Addai had 77 yards in a loss and the Saints won with their best guy getting 30
2009 Nobody ran for anything
2008 Another game with no real RB contribution

So in the last 10 years only 3 or 4 RBs from the winner or loser did anything of distinction



Although James White isn't a top-10 back, he won the game for NE last year and played incredible.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 16 2017, 12:03 AM) *
Most NFL teams have a "legit RB". You will tend to find improved RB play when your QB play is improved. Makes you wonder if there is a bigger correlation with quality QB play vs RB production and the success of a team?

Almost all of those SB teams are/were QB driven and could easily swap out their RB with another without missing a beat.


I'm not exactly sure what point you were trying to make. Everyone agrees QB is the most important position, and a QB's performance is more likely to translate directly to wins. But a star RB is a great bonus, one that most SB teams still have. For some teams, an RB committee works better. Removing any star player from the lineup has an impact, the size of which depends on a variety of factors.
Phits
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Nov 16 2017, 04:34 PM) *
I'm not exactly sure what point you were trying to make. Everyone agrees QB is the most important position, and a QB's performance is more likely to translate directly to wins. But a star RB is a great bonus, one that most SB teams still have. For some teams, an RB committee works better. Removing any star player from the lineup has an impact, the size of which depends on a variety of factors.

Any star player is a bonus. Outside of the QB, the difference between a "star xx" and a "good xx" is negligible as it relates to wins and losses.
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