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The Franchise
I haven't been this excited about the Eagles since the Super Bowl run. Sure, we put together some really good teams years after that, but by that point it became clear Reid would never win the big one. Even during Michael Vick's run I could never feel truly excited, knowing what the end result would be. Chip was a fraud from the beginning.

Here we are - a coach and franchise QB developing well, and a solid defense. We can beat anybody right now.

Birdwatcher
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 13 2017, 12:26 PM) *
I haven't been this excited about the Eagles since the Super Bowl run. Sure, we put together some really good teams years after that, but by that point it became clear Reid would never win the big one. Even during Michael Vick's run I could never feel truly excited, knowing what the end result would be. Chip was a fraud from the beginning.

Here we are - a coach and franchise QB developing well, and a solid defense. We can beat anybody right now.


I agree completely, and if they beat the skins next Monday the road to winning the NFC East looks bright.
Pila
It's a bit weird to hear the national media calling us a good team. I'm unprepared for the respect, and often find myself taking offense to the non existent sarcasm.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 13 2017, 09:16 PM) *
It's a bit weird to hear the national media calling us a good team. I'm unprepared for the respect, and often find myself taking offense to the non existent sarcasm.


The national media was (and is) in love with Reid, but after bringing Vick here we became the 'bad guys.' Then came the Dream Team fiasco, where we legitimately sucked. I honestly forget how the national media treated Chip Kelly, but even if it was good it didn't last long. Yeah, we're back getting praise.
md717
The fair Mrs. md said to me after the game, "What happens if the Eagles go to the Super Bowl?"

I said, "Typically, they lose."

cool.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (md717 @ Oct 14 2017, 09:20 AM) *
The fair and long suffering Mrs. md said to me after the game, "What happens if the Eagles go to the Super Bowl?"

I said, "Typically, they lose."

cool.gif

FTFY biggrin.gif

Good to see you - how's life?
Zero
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 13 2017, 09:16 PM) *
It's a bit weird to hear the national media calling us a good team. I'm unprepared for the respect, and often find myself taking offense to the non existent sarcasm.

Here's some of that priase.
Rick
QUOTE (md717 @ Oct 14 2017, 04:20 AM) *
The fair Mrs. md said to me after the game, "What happens if the Eagles go to the Super Bowl?"

I said, "Typically, they lose."

cool.gif

Ha!
mcnabbulous
Im still at more of a 2001 level where I feel like we are ascending and not peaking. But this is the best I’ve felt about the team since Vick’s run in 2010.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 14 2017, 08:07 AM) *
Im still at more of a 2001 level where I feel like we are ascending and not peaking. But this is the best I’ve felt about the team since Vick’s run in 2010.

I never felt like Vick would lead them to the last game. I was excited about what he could do and the excitement he would bring, but he was a retread and not new wheels. Wentz is young and has a lot of room to improve and he has some good young players surrounding him. This is more like McNabb in 2000 except with LBs and WRs. biggrin.gif
md717
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 14 2017, 05:18 AM) *
FTFY biggrin.gif

Good to see you - how's life?
Doing great, thanks - hope the same is true for you!

And your edit was apt. smile.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 14 2017, 07:16 AM) *
I never felt like Vick would lead them to the last game. I was excited about what he could do and the excitement he would bring, but he was a retread and not new wheels.

Within the confines of that season, he was brand new. No one had harnessed his potential the way Reid did for that stretch. NYG gave everyone the blueprint for stopping us, but there was a stretch where we looked like the best team in football.

QUOTE
Wentz is young and has a lot of room to improve and he has some good young players surrounding him. This is more like McNabb in 2000 except with LBs and WRs. biggrin.gif

An argument could be made that Wentz is already performing at McNabb's peak levels, which is incredibly exciting. Our LBs were pretty solid during the early Reid years.

Barring something terrible happening, we should expect another 10-12 years of Wentz excellence, with the peak happening in 4-5 years. Fuck that's exciting.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 14 2017, 08:16 AM) *
This is more like McNabb in 2000 except with LBs and WRs. biggrin.gif


We saw what happened when McNabb actually had a deep threat. Wentz has several solid targets.
Phits
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 14 2017, 01:12 PM) *
We saw what happened when McNabb actually had a deep threat. Wentz has several solid targets.

Amazing how a reliable receiving corp can alter the perception of a QB, HC and overall team's progress.
The Franchise
I like Aaron Rodgers and don't like to see him get a bad injury, but let's face it: we're the clear favorites right now to come out of the NFC.
Pila
Seattle is still a serious contender also.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 15 2017, 05:02 PM) *
Seattle is still a serious contender also.


There's several teams to worry about, but right now we're the best in the conference.
samaroo
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 16 2017, 06:34 AM) *
There's several teams to worry about, but right now we're the best in the conference.


How weird would that statement have sounded in August? What a season so far.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 14 2017, 02:17 PM) *
Amazing how a reliable receiving corp can alter the perception of a QB, HC and overall team's progress.


Very well said.....if Mcnabb had this WR corp early in his career he would be getting fitted for a gold jacket by now
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 16 2017, 11:17 AM) *
Very well said.....if Mcnabb had this WR corp early in his career he would be getting fitted for a gold jacket by now

This is a bit presumptuous. Donnie did a heck of a job with limited weapons early in his career, but his success early was dependent on his running ability one way or another.

He came from a very niche college offense and definitely wasn't an advanced passer early in his career.

Had he maintained that running ability as his passing abilities improved, he'd be wearing a gold jacket.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 16 2017, 11:17 AM) *
Very well said.....if Mcnabb had this WR corp early in his career he would be getting fitted for a gold jacket by now

I think McNabb needed a coach who would call enough runs to make play action a weapon.

Andy needed to do a better job of that!
The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2017, 02:20 PM) *
I think McNabb needed a coach who would call enough runs to make play action a weapon.

Andy needed to do a better job of that!


cheers.gif
mcnabbulous
Yes yes - Andy...the guy who has been in the top half of the NFL in run/pass ratio balance every year since he's been in KC (and was much the same with Feeley and Garcia as his QBs)

I've always heard that hindsight is 20/20, which makes it amazing that you guys can't figure out who was the primary reason behind lack of balance during Andy's time here.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2017, 03:20 PM) *
I think McNabb needed a coach who would call enough runs to make play action a weapon.

Andy needed to do a better job of that!

....or at least one that recognized that his QB needed a reliable downfield target to throw to. That way 5 could utilize his arm strength and not consistently get beat up by having to use a dwindling asset (his mobility).
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2017, 03:18 PM) *
Yes yes - Andy...the guy who has been in the top half of the NFL in run/pass ratio balance every year since he's been in KC (and was much the same with Feeley and Garcia as his QBs)


Yes I remember this, and it was absolutely maddening. If Andy consistently called the same kind of game plan with his star QB as he did and does with inferior QB's, things would have gone different.

I wonder if anyone has ever looked at a game-by-game record of win-loss results when Westbrook and Shady received a certain amount of touches. I would wager that when Reid called a balanced attack with #5 under center, we were damn near unbeatable.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 16 2017, 06:55 PM) *
If Andy consistently called the same kind of game plan with his star QB as he did and does with inferior QB's, things would have gone different.

Lol

Yeah, the same crowd that has been bitching that Andy never adapted now is now accusing him of not consistently calling the same gameplan with McNabb and his "inferior" QBs.

Classic stuff.

Old dogs don't learn new tricks, but yet somehow, Andy has had an offense that basically functions the complete opposite of how it did while he was here. And yet you think it was the coach and not the QB who dictated that.

While in McNabb's only full season under a different coach, said coach passed at a significantly higher rate (by 2%) and ran the fewest plays in his 18 year career.

I would hope our resident "numbers" guy would be able to see and appreciate that this likely isn't a coincidence.

Considering we had multiple top-10 season in rushing yards, while Donnie's best offensive season also included being 31st in rush attempts and 24th in yards, I would also think that this idea that he was held back by a lack of running game to be a total farce.

But ya'll can continue to live in your fantasyland, falsely reminiscing about the type of QB Donnie was. Talkin' about winning multiple championships in a world where Aaron Rodgers has one and Dan Marino has none.



Phits
You mean a 10-year veteran QB in the twilight of his (injury-plagued) career wasn't as good, on a new team and a new offense, as when he was younger?

Go figure.

I wonder what the success rate is for other QB's in a similar type of situation?

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2017, 09:26 PM) *
Lol

Yeah, the same crowd that has been bitching that Andy never adapted now is now accusing him of not consistently calling the same gameplan with McNabb and his "inferior" QBs.

Classic stuff.

Old dogs don't learn new tricks, but yet somehow, Andy has had an offense that basically functions the complete opposite of how it did while he was here. And yet you think it was the coach and not the QB who dictated that.

While in McNabb's only full season under a different coach, said coach passed at a significantly higher rate (by 2%) and ran the fewest plays in his 18 year career.

I would hope our resident "numbers" guy would be able to see and appreciate that this likely isn't a coincidence.

Considering we had multiple top-10 season in rushing yards, while Donnie's best offensive season also included being 31st in rush attempts and 24th in yards, I would also think that this idea that he was held back by a lack of running game to be a total farce.

But ya'll can continue to live in your fantasyland, falsely reminiscing about the type of QB Donnie was. Talkin' about winning multiple championships in a world where Aaron Rodgers has one and Dan Marino has none.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 16 2017, 09:13 PM) *
You mean a 10-year veteran QB in the twilight of his (injury-plagued) career wasn't as good, on a new team and a new offense, as when he was younger?

Go figure.

I wonder what the success rate is for other QB's in a similar type of situation?

This has nothing to do with "goodness." I didn't mention success or failure once.

This has everything to do with a coach throwing a disproportionate amount of passes when Donovan McNabb was their QB vs. when he wasn't.

You guys think it's some weird coincidence. I don't.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2017, 08:26 PM) *
But ya'll can continue to live in your fantasyland, falsely reminiscing about the type of QB Donnie was. Talkin' about winning multiple championships in a world where Aaron Rodgers has one and Dan Marino has none.


McNabb wasn't on the level of either of them. However, he was capable of beating anyone when his coach played to the strengths of the team. Once his ability to run started to go, the predictability of Reid's offense really caught up to us. The only time later in his career that we were contenders was when he was throwing to DJax. Apparently, genius Reid thought Reggie Brown was enough otherwise.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 16 2017, 10:34 PM) *
Apparently, genius Reid thought Reggie Brown was enough otherwise.

With the benefit of hindsight after the TO situation, the 2006 and 2007 offseasons, how would you have dramatically upgraded the receivers in the draft or via free agency?

Keep in mind, we did trade for Stallworth and sign Kevin Curtis those two years. So given everything you know now, how much better could you have made it?

Based on what I can tell, the only pro bowl receiver taken in either of those two drafts was Brandon Marshall in the 2006 4th round, but given his baggage, it's hardly a dramatic oversight.

Tell me how your genius would have solved that problem.



Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2017, 10:34 PM) *
This has nothing to do with "goodness." I didn't mention success or failure once.

This has everything to do with a coach throwing a disproportionate amount of passes when Donovan McNabb was their QB vs. when he wasn't.

You guys think it's some weird coincidence. I don't.

Nah, I don't think it's a weird coincidence. I think it's about a coach understanding where he erred. Also, that he requires a particular type of personnel to run his scheme.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2017, 12:03 AM) *
Tell me how your genius would have solved that problem.


My 'genius' would've recognized from the beginning that in order to run a consistently successful West Coast Offense, you need at least above average receivers. Therefore '06-07 wouldn't have been a problem.

Another thing to praise Howie and Doug about - we actually have receivers to help our young franchise QB!
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 17 2017, 08:47 AM) *
I think it's about a coach understanding where he erred. Also, that he requires a particular type of personnel to run his scheme.

So the coach that I am always told doesn't know how to adapt completely changed his offensive philosophy 15 years into his career.

Sorry man, not buying it.

I think Andy covets two things from his QBs. Accuracy and mobility. Donnie had boatloads of one and not much of the other. Because the mobility thing was such an asset, he could get by with the lack of accuracy. Once the mobility went away, Andy was left scrambling (no pun intended). He tried to remedy it by drafting Kolb, which didn't work out.

But ultimately, Andy was tied to Donnie. In hindsight, I suspect he wishes he had moved on earlier, but it would have been very tough to do given the success they had together early. And it's not like acquiring a QB is very easy, as we've seen in the years since.

The reality is that beginning in 2005, Donovan wasn't really anything special. He was a guy that topped out at 23 TDs in a season. In the modern NFL, that's simply not impressive.

He had 5 really solid seasons here. I'll always think fondly of that run. But I really believe people think Donovan (and our team as a whole) were more special than they really were. 2002 was our best team, without question. Donnie breaking his leg really fucked us that year.

I do think Alex Smith is more aligned with what Andy really wants out of a QB. But he just barely meets the minimal arm strength requirements, which limits what an offense is capable of doing. They have a chance this year, but I don't think Smith is ideal to win in cold weather games, for that reason.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 09:39 AM) *
My 'genius' would've recognized from the beginning that in order to run a consistently successful West Coast Offense, you need at least above average receivers. Therefore '06-07 wouldn't have been a problem.

We drafted a second rounder, a first rounder, signed TO and gave Donovan bookend tackles his entire career.

Sometimes draft picks don't work out. But it's not like he didn't try. Freddie was a heck of a prospect and on paper, was an ideal fit for our offense who averaged 20ypc his junior year at UCLA.

But yeah, you're full of shit with your 06-07 wouldn't have been a problem (and just about everything else).
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2017, 10:45 AM) *
So the coach that I am always told doesn't know how to adapt completely changed his offensive philosophy 15 years into his career.

Sorry man, not buying it.

I think Andy covets two things from his QBs. Accuracy and mobility. Donnie had boatloads of one and not much of the other. Because the mobility thing was such an asset, he could get by with the lack of accuracy. Once the mobility went away, Andy was left scrambling (no pun intended). He tried to remedy it by drafting Kolb, which didn't work out.

But ultimately, Andy was tied to Donnie. In hindsight, I suspect he wishes he had moved on earlier, but it would have been very tough to do given the success they had together early. And it's not like acquiring a QB is very easy, as we've seen in the years since.

The reality is that beginning in 2005, Donovan wasn't really anything special. He was a guy that topped out at 23 TDs in a season. In the modern NFL, that's simply not impressive.

He had 5 really solid seasons here. I'll always think fondly of that run. But I really believe people think Donovan (and our team as a whole) were more special than they really were. 2002 was our best team, without question. Donnie breaking his leg really fucked us that year.

I do think Alex Smith is more aligned with what Andy really wants out of a QB. But he just barely meets the minimal arm strength requirements, which limits what an offense is capable of doing. They have a chance this year, but I don't think Smith is ideal to win in cold weather games, for that reason.


QUOTE
We drafted a second rounder, a first rounder, signed TO and gave Donovan bookend tackles his entire career.

Sometimes draft picks don't work out. But it's not like he didn't try. Freddie was a heck of a prospect and on paper, was an ideal fit for our offense who averaged 20ypc his junior year at UCLA.

But yeah, you're full of shit with your 06-07 wouldn't have been a problem (and just about everything else).


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

You could've saved us all a couple minutes that we'll never get back and just said "Andy is the greatest football mind in the history of the world. However, this God-like QB coach and offensive genius just keeps getting fucked with the deficient QB's he chooses to lead his oft WR-deficient teams."

Oh man this is gold.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 09:54 AM) *
However, this God-like QB coach and offensive genius just keeps getting fucked with the deficient QB's he chooses to lead his oft WR-deficient teams."

Oh man this is gold.

No, if you want me to summarize, it would be:

It's hard to find a great QB that is capable of winning a SB, let alone many. Which is why it takes a lot of elements, including a little bit of luck, to win won.

As I said, the year we were easily the best team in the league (2002), we happened to be about as unlucky as it gets (our QB broke his leg).

As you watch the next couple weeks of NFL football, let me know how well those teams fare that have lost their QB. Then again, you also have consistently told me how great McCarthy and Pagano are, so I'm sure neither of their teams will or have lost a beat.

Pila
Andy Reid is a really good coach. He has flaws, but his record speaks for itself.

What went wrong here is simply a matter of him being here too long, the process of losing coaches, being distracted by family tragedy, GM duties he was poorly equipped to handle, leading to passive leadership in the end. The course simply dried out here. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if Reid won a SB with KC in the short future.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 17 2017, 11:21 AM) *
Andy Reid is a really good coach. He has flaws, but his record speaks for itself.

What went wrong here is simply a matter of him being here too long, the process of losing coaches, being distracted by family tragedy, GM duties he was poorly equipped to handle, leading to passive leadership in the end. The course simply dried out here. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if Reid won a SB with KC in the short future.


He is a good coach - nobody has ever said otherwise. His regular season record speaks for itself.

He also has undeniable, glaring flaws related to game management - specifically, clock management and situational play calling. Because of this, he is unable to consistently beat good teams, which is why he will never, ever, ever win a Super Bowl - in order to win one, he would have to beat 3 or 4 elite teams in a row. His record in January also speaks for itself. For further reference, see my signature, courtesy of Jeremiah Trotter.

The last 2 weeks, Doug has closed out games like a boss - something we never got to see in 14 years with Reid. KC can have him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 10:38 AM) *
He is a good coach - nobody has ever said otherwise. His regular season record speaks for itself.

He also has undeniable, glaring flaws related to game management - specifically, clock management and situational play calling. Because of this, he is unable to consistently beat good teams, which is why he will never, ever, ever win a Super Bowl - in order to win one, he would have to beat 3 or 4 elite teams in a row.

No one can consistently beat good teams, other than the Patriots. Literally no one. And they have arguably the best QB of all time. This isn't something unique to Andy Reid.

Good teams are good teams because they're tough to beat.

QUOTE
His record in January also speaks for itself.

He has the 9th most playoff wins of all time.

QUOTE
The last 2 weeks, Doug has closed out games like a boss - something we never got to see in 14 years with Reid. KC can have him.

Yes, if only we got to see Andy close out some games "like a boss" during his 140 wins here. You've got the memory of a fucking rat.
Pila
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 04:38 PM) *
He is a good coach - nobody has ever said otherwise. His regular season record speaks for itself.

He also has undeniable, glaring flaws related to game management - specifically, clock management and situational play calling. Because of this, he is unable to consistently beat good teams, which is why he will never, ever, ever win a Super Bowl - in order to win one, he would have to beat 3 or 4 elite teams in a row. His record in January also speaks for itself. For further reference, see my signature, courtesy of Jeremiah Trotter.

The last 2 weeks, Doug has closed out games like a boss - something we never got to see in 14 years with Reid. KC can have him.

All coaches get out-coached occasionally. Other coaches get paid too. But you're right that his weaknesses have sacrificed wins and may happen again. However, that's hardly been the case for every playoff loss, nor does it rob him of his overall ability to coach winning football teams. The sole focus on his weaknesses as the only reason he loses in the playoffs is hyperbole as it ignores many losses where his coaching in the stated weaknesses never came into play.

If he keeps giving his teams a chance, the variables could very well fall for him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 17 2017, 10:58 AM) *
All coaches get out-coached occasionally.

And sometimes, gasp, key players play poorly. Which likely has a bigger impact on the game outcome then anything else.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2017, 12:33 PM) *
This is a bit presumptuous. Donnie did a heck of a job with limited weapons early in his career, but his success early was dependent on his running ability one way or another.

He came from a very niche college offense and definitely wasn't an advanced passer early in his career.

Had he maintained that running ability as his passing abilities improved, he'd be wearing a gold jacket.


The numbers would disagree with you. He reached the zenith of his rushing yards in a season in 2000 and then it steadily decreased and he won with a great defense and terrible WRs. The real proof is when he actually got a real WR in TO and had ridiculous numbers while leaving games early because they were winning so handily.

One thing about him is that he had a great deep ball from day 1.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2017, 03:20 PM) *
I think McNabb needed a coach who would call enough runs to make play action a weapon.

Andy needed to do a better job of that!


no...he needed a GM who understood the importance of the WR position....unfortunately the guy making those decisions was also the head coach
The Franchise
QUOTE
No one can consistently beat good teams, other than the Patriots. Literally no one. And they have arguably the best QB of all time. This isn't something unique to Andy Reid.


Actually, Tom Coughlin would beg to differ. As would Harbaugh, Cowher, McCarthy, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton, and a whole shitload of other coaches known for getting it done in January.

QUOTE
He has the 9th most playoff wins of all time.


Tied with several others, but yes. And a losing record in the playoffs to show for it. In the top 25 coaches with playoff wins, only Tony Dungy and Bud Grant also have that distinction. Both have bling. Reid doesn't.

QUOTE
Yes, if only we got to see Andy close out some games "like a boss" during his 140 wins here. You've got the memory of a fucking rat.


He was and is known for keeping teams around and thus losing leads, mostly because of his horrible clock management and refusal to run the ball when ahead late. Remember our talk about his playoff loss to the Colts, after being up by 4 touchdowns in the 3rd quarter? Then he decided to call 75% pass plays before ultimately blowing the lead?
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 17 2017, 10:58 AM) *
The sole focus on his weaknesses as the only reason he loses in the playoffs is hyperbole as it ignores many losses where his coaching in the stated weaknesses never came into play.

If he keeps giving his teams a chance, the variables could very well fall for him.


If this was 2005, I'd be with you. It's 2017. Other than a win against the hapless Texans 2 years ago, his last playoff win was with McNabb and JJ. This is his 19th year as a head coach. It'll be the same 'ole song as always this year.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 12:59 PM) *
Actually, Tom Coughlin would beg to differ. As would Harbaugh, Cowher, McCarthy, Carroll, Tomlin, Payton, and a whole shitload of other coaches known for getting it done in January.

Hahahah. Yes, consistently. So consistently for all those guys. Every talks about Cowher that way. And McCarthy...totally highly thought of. Sean Payton, the guy on his way to his 4th straight losing season with Drew Brees as his QB? Yeah, total consistent group of winners you're throwing at me.

I'll give you Tom Coughlin though. He did have two unbelievable runs. He also was consistent in getting stomped by Andy Reid. Including in their only playoff matchup.

Tied with several others, but yes. And a losing record in the playoffs to show for it. In the top 25 coaches with playoff wins, only Tony Dungy and Bud Grant also have that distinction. Both have bling. Reid doesn't.
Tony Dungy? The guy Andy owned in the playoffs? Hmm, what was different when he won his title?

QUOTE
He was and is known for keeping teams around and thus losing leads, mostly because of his horrible clock management and refusal to run the ball when ahead late. Remember our talk about his playoff loss to the Colts, after being up by 4 touchdowns in the 3rd quarter? Then he decided to call 75% pass plays before ultimately blowing the lead?

Yeah, and you clearly forget the 140 games he won. What he will ultimately be known for is one of the best coaches of all time. Certainly more highly thought of than McNabb.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 17 2017, 12:45 PM) *
The numbers would disagree with you.

No they wouldn't.

QUOTE
He reached the zenith of his rushing yards in a season in 2000 and then it steadily decreased and he won with a great defense and terrible WRs.

Only if you consider the fact that he played 6 fewer games in 2002 than 2000. But in 2002, he averaged more carries and yards per game. And scored just as many touchdowns. 2002 was the best version of McNabb that we saw. It was unfortunate he broke his leg. We probably wouldn't be having these stupid ass discussions if that never happened.

QUOTE
The real proof is when he actually got a real WR in TO and had ridiculous numbers while leaving games early because they were winning so handily.

What is that the real proof of? He was in his 6th season in the league/same system. There is no real evidence that he would have been a dramatically better passer prior to that, given his niche college offense.

Not to mention, TO was arguably the best receiver in football when he arrived here. He wasn't just a "real WR." He was a god damn freak of nature. The idea that Reid did Donovan a disservice by not acquiring him a TO earlier in his career is silly. Those guys don't become available often.

QUOTE
One thing about him is that he had a great deep ball from day 1.

No arguments here, but you don't have to be the most adept pro QB to have that skillset.
The Franchise
QUOTE
What he will ultimately be known for is one of the best coaches of all time.


Whenever he's finished, he will eventually be the subject of a 30/30 or something similar, the majority of which will be spent wondering 'what happened,' similar to a certain bitch who also refuses to retire.

At the end of the day, he'll be little more than a lovable loser. Marv Levy without the conference dominance. A guy who almost never failed to put a good product on the field, but when it mattered, he lost to Brad Johnson and Jake Delhomme at home in 2 of the biggest games of his career. A guy who couldn't close out a 28 point lead against an inferior opponent at home.

Et cetera.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2017, 01:25 PM) *
A guy who couldn't close out a 28 point lead against an inferior opponent at home.

Nice to see how little you actually know or the make believe shit you tell yourself.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2017, 02:20 PM) *
What is that the real proof of? He was in his 6th season in the league/same system. There is no real evidence that he would have been a dramatically better passer prior to that, given his niche college offense.

Not to mention, TO was arguably the best receiver in football when he arrived here. He wasn't just a "real WR." He was a god damn freak of nature. The idea that Reid did Donovan a disservice by not acquiring him a TO earlier in his career is silly. Those guys don't become available often.


No arguments here, but you don't have to be the most adept pro QB to have that skillset.


Regardless of his "6th" year in the system eh had a real WR to throw to. Are you suggesting that TO had less impact then his delayed maturation? He got a quality WR and his passing per game went up dramatically, almost 50 y/g fromt he previous year and 30 more than his best year previous to that point. Beyond that, it was not needed to get a TO caliber WR but it certainly was important to exceed the James Thrash/Charles Johnson bar. I think Reid is a great coach but to suddenly act as if his penchant for undervaluing the RW position was not an oversight but rather a matter of poor circumstance is disingenuous. Add to that taking FredX instead of Wayne or Johnson or Smith demonstrated a clear lack of understanding of the position.

I can't blame it all on Reid, he had other voices in the draft room and the FA pursuit. AT the end of the day the media well documented and lamented his lack of focus on the position. We disagree on a main point, I don't want a QB to run much because, well, his job is to throw the ball and when QBs run, they tend to get hurt and it shortens their career. The list is a long one.
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