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nephillymike
If it were your job to rename the 12 great Americans that should be shown on our money, who would it be?

Can be any great American from any year.

Who are some of 12 most deserving Americans?
Pila
Why twelve?
D Rock
Why for display on paper money?
nephillymike
The way I figured it, we have six denominations of paper money and six coins:

Penny, nickel,dime,quarter, half dollar and dollar.

One dollar, five dollar, ten dollar, twenty dollar, fifty dollar and hundred.

12.
nephillymike
Here's a list that a few of us came up with: x is a unanimous choice among five people

Washington x
Lincoln x
Franklin x
MLK x
Jefferson
Hamilton
FDR
Disney
J. Robinson
B. Gates
Astronauts (shared photo of 3)
First Ladies (shared photo of 3)
-------------------------------------
Honorable Mention
H. Tubman
T. Marshall
Reagan
Grant
T. Roosevelt
S. Day O'Connor
Squanto
W. Buffet
None of the robber barons made the list

The astronauts and First Ladies shared bids were a compromise as we didn't think it right to have only one of each. We didn't get too detailed about which of them would comprise the three.

I'm sure we missed some obvious ones.

Anyone?
D Rock
I think it would be worthy to have a discussion that any former slave owner be removed from the list. Also, this deification of Reagan baffles me. His presidency marks the beginning of the end for the American middle class built on Roosevelt's new deal policies.
Rick
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 21 2017, 10:17 AM) *
I think it would be worthy to have a discussion that any former slave owner be removed from the list. Also, this deification of Reagan baffles me. His presidency marks the beginning of the end for the American middle class built on Roosevelt's new deal policies.

Totally agree on the Regan thing. He started us on this path of spending spending spending on, "defense," which has ruined this country financially.

Dreagon
Edgar Allen Poe –
Henry Ford
The Wright Brothers
Mark Twain
Walt Disney
Nikola Tesla
Buzz Aldrin
Rosie the Riveter – yes, she’s fictional, but she’s iconic and represented a burgeoning zeitgeist.
Josephine Baker – singer, dancer, Allied agent.
George Washington Carver
Cornelius Vanderbilt
Deadpool
eagleaddict
Not definite but I think should be in the discussion...

Sacajawea
Paul Revere
Betsy Ross
Rosa Parks
Elvis Presley
Charles Lindbergh
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Henry David Thoreau
Amelia Earhart
eagleaddict
Not definite but I think should be in the discussion...

Sacajawea
Paul Revere
Betsy Ross
Rosa Parks
Elvis Presley
Charles Lindbergh
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Henry David Thoreau
Amelia Earhart
D Rock
How about Dr. Jonas Salk?

Dreagon
QUOTE (eagleaddict @ Jun 21 2017, 12:27 PM) *
Not definite but I think should be in the discussion...

Sacajawea
Paul Revere
Betsy Ross
Rosa Parks
Elvis Presley
Charles Lindbergh
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Henry David Thoreau
Amelia Earhart


I strongly considered Emerson. His essay on Self Reliance was an insightful reflection on a powerful form of American thought.
Pila
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 21 2017, 04:29 PM) *
Edgar Allen Poe –
Henry Ford
The Wright Brothers
Mark Twain
Walt Disney
Nikola Tesla
Buzz Aldrin
Rosie the Riveter – yes, she’s fictional, but she’s iconic and represented a burgeoning zeitgeist.
Josephine Baker – singer, dancer, Allied agent.
George Washington Carver
Cornelius Vanderbilt
Deadpool


Love your list!

I'd go-

George Washington
Lincoln
Thomas Paine
Mark Twain
George Washington Carver
Buzz
Barbara McClintock
MLK
Thomas Jefferson
Nikola Tesla
Ben Franklin
And perhaps the greatest 20th century American to have ever lived-

The great Carl Sagan

The Franchise
QUOTE
I think it would be worthy to have a discussion that any former slave owner be removed from the list.


Right - if only those former presidents had ordered incarceration of over 100,000 people because of their ethnicity instead, like the guy you apparently worship.

QUOTE
Also, this deification of Reagan baffles me. His presidency marks the beginning of the end for the American middle class built on Roosevelt's new deal policies.


I don't think he was a particularly great president in terms of domestic agenda, but he completely restored national pride after 4 years of misery under Jimmy Carter and other embarrassments of the 70's, such as Vietnam and Nixon.



The Franchise
Washington

Jefferson

Franklin

Jackson

Lincoln

Thomas Edison

Nikola Tesla

Henry Ford

Babe Ruth

MLK

Neil Armstrong

Reagan

Birdman420
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 21 2017, 12:29 PM) *
Edgar Allen Poe –
Henry Ford
The Wright Brothers
Mark Twain
Walt Disney
Nikola Tesla
Buzz Aldrin
Rosie the Riveter – yes, she’s fictional, but she’s iconic and represented a burgeoning zeitgeist.
Josephine Baker – singer, dancer, Allied agent.
George Washington Carver
Cornelius Vanderbilt
Deadpool



Henry Ford made millions from making trucks and tanks for the nazi's right up until the US entered the war.
Birdman420
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jun 21 2017, 04:30 PM) *
Right - if only those former presidents had ordered incarceration of over 100,000 people because of their ethnicity instead, like the guy you apparently worship.



I don't think he was a particularly great president in terms of domestic agenda, but he completely restored national pride after 4 years of misery under Jimmy Carter and other embarrassments of the 70's, such as Vietnam and Nixon.


It's well documented that Carters reputation on the hostage crisis is ill founded and that it was a military blunder. Carter's exit speech alone should be replayed like JFK's moon speech yet Reagan had to wipe his ass with the page the speech was written on.

We can also thank the Reagans not only for the defense waste but also the Drug war. We all know how that's going, It'd be more fitting to put print Reagan's face on toilet paper then it would be to honor him on our gold standard (Oh wait that's over too because we're in so much debt).
Pila
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Jun 22 2017, 05:04 PM) *
It's well documented that Carters reputation on the hostage crisis is ill founded and that it was a military blunder. Carter's exit speech alone should be replayed like JFK's moon speech yet Reagan had to wipe his ass with the page the speech was written on.

We can also thank the Reagans not only for the defense waste but also the Drug war. We all know how that's going, It'd be more fitting to put print Reagan's face on toilet paper then it would be to honor him on our gold standard (Oh wait that's over too because we're in so much debt).


In fairness to Reagan, the annulment on Bretton-Woods was a Nixon atrocity, including the initial war on drugs. Reagan merely cranked it up a few notches.

The fall of the Soviet Union was a rot from the inside. Reagan's spending did help it speed it up though. But none of that can make up for the scandalous support of terrorist organizations around the world, none of which top selling arms to Iran itself. Imagine if Carter had done that.

The crank in "defense" spending really allowed the intelligence agencies to go rogue and fund some really morally incomprehensible murk of propping up despots, drug kingpins and otherwise personal self-enriching plunder among operatives in control of this incredible unaccountable, bloated bureaucracy.

Only guy probably worse than Reagan was Bill Clinton. Yet those two are often cited as two of the best in modest history. Go figure.
The Franchise
QUOTE
Henry Ford made millions from making trucks and tanks for the nazi's right up until the US entered the war.


Yes, it's called 'international business,' which is what occurs between countries who have diplomatic relations and who aren't at war. Once the US entered the war, his plants produced war planes for us.

QUOTE
It's well documented that Carters reputation on the hostage crisis is ill founded and that it was a military blunder.


It's 'well-documented' that discussing history with anyone who still defends Jimmy Carter is a waste of time.

QUOTE
We can also thank the Reagans not only for the defense waste but also the Drug war. We all know how that's going, It'd be more fitting to put print Reagan's face on toilet paper then it would be to honor him on our gold standard (Oh wait that's over too because we're in so much debt).


I'd wager you have no clue what the gold standard is, but if you have a beef about not being on it, look to every president from FDR to Ford.

Where's your list?
Dreagon
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Jun 22 2017, 10:59 AM) *
Henry Ford made millions from making trucks and tanks for the nazi's right up until the US entered the war.


Which means we weren't at war with the Nazi's while he was doing it and up until then it was a valid business decision.
Pila
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 22 2017, 07:12 PM) *
Which means we weren't at war with the Nazi's while he was doing it and up until then it was a valid business decision.

I think the real question is in the moral platitude in which deals are struck, not whether it's valid commerce. Slavery was also valid commerce.

That doesn't in itself invalidate the nomination, after all our moral values are an ever evolving phenomenon. But we should know and recognize the distinction.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ Jun 22 2017, 03:09 PM) *
That doesn't in itself invalidate the nomination, after all our moral values are an ever evolving phenomenon. But we should know and recognize the distinction.


A brilliant statement.

One cannot look at actions of the past without acknowledging the climate and standards at that time. Too often we look at a snapshot of history and treat those people as if they lived with the cultural evolution and knowledge of today.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Pila @ Jun 22 2017, 02:09 PM) *
I think the real question is in the moral platitude in which deals are struck, not whether it's valid commerce. Slavery was also valid commerce.

That doesn't in itself invalidate the nomination, after all our moral values are an ever evolving phenomenon. But we should know and recognize the distinction.


By the moral platitudes of the time, that decision was fine. We were not at war with Germany. The country didn't even want to go to war with Germany. After the horrors of WWI, the nation had a real aversion to taking sides or getting involved in European conflicts. If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor, causing us to declare war on them and thus forcing Germany (who was their ally) to declare war on us, it's hard to say when or if we would have entered WWII.

But I agree that it's okay to note that things have changed since then.
D Rock
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 22 2017, 09:12 PM) *
By the moral platitudes of the time, that decision was fine. We were not at war with Germany. The country didn't even want to go to war with Germany. After the horrors of WWI, the nation had a real aversion to taking sides or getting involved in European conflicts. If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor, causing us to declare war on them and thus forcing Germany (who was their ally) to declare war on us, it's hard to say when or if we would have entered WWII.

But I agree that it's okay to note that things have changed since then.

Ford was an anti Semite. Ford fought organized labor vehemently, politically, and violently. He helped build the German war machine in the 30s.

He was an asswipe of so high and order, he may as well have been a Texan.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 22 2017, 03:12 PM) *
If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor, causing us to declare war on them and thus forcing Germany (who was their ally) to declare war on us, it's hard to say when or if we would have entered WWII.


Ford and the people didn't want war, correct. But to be more accurate, FDR was itching to get us into the war, and failed to goad Hitler into striking us first. So he turned his eyes to Japan, which heavily relied on trade with us and other Western countries. He terminated trade agreements with them, froze their assets, and refused to even entertain peace talks with their ambassador. He put them in a desperate position economically, and left our base at Pearl Harbor blind to the attack he and his advisers knew was coming. After sacrificing 2,000 Americans to get his war, of course, he took over 100,000 Japanese Americans and put them in concentration camps.

I could go on all day about this piece of shit. The fact that he is idolized today shows how powerful the propaganda of Hollywood and our govt. school system can be.
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 22 2017, 09:06 PM) *
A brilliant statement.

One cannot look at actions of the past without acknowledging the climate and standards at that time. Too often we look at a snapshot of history and treat those people as if they lived with the cultural evolution and knowledge of today.


Thank you.
Pila
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jun 22 2017, 09:12 PM) *
By the moral platitudes of the time, that decision was fine. We were not at war with Germany. The country didn't even want to go to war with Germany. After the horrors of WWI, the nation had a real aversion to taking sides or getting involved in European conflicts. If the Japanese hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor, causing us to declare war on them and thus forcing Germany (who was their ally) to declare war on us, it's hard to say when or if we would have entered WWII.

But I agree that it's okay to note that things have changed since then.


Right. Initially you stated only the validity in the deal in commerce. A moral value is independent of commerce. It's important distinction, although I don't mean to discredit your nomination with that statement.
Pila
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jun 23 2017, 04:03 AM) *
Ford and the people didn't want war, correct. But to be more accurate, FDR was itching to get us into the war, and failed to goad Hitler into striking us first. So he turned his eyes to Japan, which heavily relied on trade with us and other Western countries. He terminated trade agreements with them, froze their assets, and refused to even entertain peace talks with their ambassador. He put them in a desperate position economically, and left our base at Pearl Harbor blind to the attack he and his advisers knew was coming. After sacrificing 2,000 Americans to get his war, of course, he took over 100,000 Japanese Americans and put them in concentration camps.

I could go on all day about this piece of shit. The fact that he is idolized today shows how powerful the propaganda of Hollywood and our govt. school system can be.

This is a good post, although joining the allies and face Japanese and German imperialism was right, FDR was a terribly flawed, quasi totalitarian.

As shameful as the country's internment of Japanese Americans was, calling them concentration camps is misleading because of how we associate the term with German death camps. That part came off as disingenuous, although the point was valid.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Jun 26 2017, 08:30 PM) *
As shameful as the country's internment of Japanese Americans was, calling them concentration camps is misleading because of how we associate the term with German death camps. That part came off as disingenuous, although the point was valid.


Point taken, certainly the word is associated with death camps and internment is a more appropriate word.
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