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Zero
This suggests there may be an opportunity for a Kelce trade, player-for-player, for Ingram.
QUOTE
... maybe the Eagles would be interested in acquiring a player. Saints running back Mark Ingram would fill a major need for the Eagles and New Orleans suddenly has a crowded depth chart in the backfield.

Mark Ingram
Adrian Peterson
Alvin Kamara
Travaris Cadet
Daniel Lasco
Marcus Murphy

The Saints signed Peterson in free agency. His physical style makes Ingram’s skill set a little redundant. Then New Orleans traded their third and seventh round picks in the 2017 NFL Draft, PLUS a 2018 third round selection, in order to get Kamara. Cadet played the second most snaps of Saints running back in 2016. Lasco was a seventh round pick last year.
Pila
Was Ingram their best back?
The Franchise
They had Ingram, signed Peterson, and then drafted Kamara. They did so for a reason, remember last year they brought Ingram, Hightower, and Spiller into camp.

Ain't happening.
Phits
QUOTE (Pila @ May 8 2017, 10:38 AM) *
Was Ingram their best back?

That's a relative term in New Orleans because they have Drew Brees slinging the ball. Running the ball is an afterthought.
GroundedBird
QUOTE (The Franchise @ May 8 2017, 11:41 AM) *
They had Ingram, signed Peterson, and then drafted Kamara. They did so for a reason, remember last year they brought Ingram, Hightower, and Spiller into camp.

Ain't happening.


sorry, maybe I'm being a little dense. What was the reason?
The Franchise
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ May 8 2017, 11:39 AM) *
sorry, maybe I'm being a little dense. What was the reason?


Payton is known for taking a committee of RB's on his roster, as he heavily utilizes them in the passing game and doesn't put too much of a load on a single back. I'd be stunned if he gives up any of his top 3 for Kelce.
GroundedBird
QUOTE (The Franchise @ May 8 2017, 12:53 PM) *
Payton is known for taking a committee of RB's on his roster, as he heavily utilizes them in the passing game and doesn't put too much of a load on a single back. I'd be stunned if he gives up any of his top 3 for Kelce.


Thanks for the explanation. Do you think that's more important to him than his starting center?
The Franchise
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ May 8 2017, 12:21 PM) *
Thanks for the explanation. Do you think that's more important to him than his starting center?


I think trade talk about Kelce regarding this is a news story because the Philly media needs something to write about. Payton will give a shot to his backups, or he might sign someone, or it might not be that serious an injury.

Ingram for Kelce? That's ridiculous. But I hope I'm wrong.
Zero
QUOTE (The Franchise @ May 8 2017, 02:44 PM) *
Ingram for Kelce? That's ridiculous. But I hope I'm wrong.

If the Eagles feel a big enough need for him, I'm sure they'd add in a draft pick or a LB. wink.gif
Reality Fan
I think some forget that Ingram had a 1,000 yards last year and averaged 5.1 YPC so the suggestion that they would move him for a guy the same people think sucks is pretty odd.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ May 8 2017, 02:24 PM) *
If the Eagles feel a big enough need for him, I'm sure they'd add in a draft pick or a LB. wink.gif


They're in arguably the most obvious 'win now' mode in the league next to the Pats. Maybe they would take Kelce and Kendricks, or even Hicks. Then we can listen to the mutiny on WIP for the next several months. Ain't happening, this is just Philly sportswriters killing time until a real story comes out.
Joegrane
Do they want to run wide and throw screen passes?

Do they want their C bull-rushed back into Brees' lap?

QUOTE (Zero @ May 8 2017, 08:28 AM) *
This suggests there may be an opportunity for a Kelce trade, player-for-player, for Ingram.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 8 2017, 04:38 PM) *
Do they want to run wide and throw screen passes?

Do they want their C bull-rushed back into Brees' lap?


Funny I was just reading Kelce's grading against the Cowboys in the last game where he was ranked the best OL in that game. Kelce had a slow start but a good season. This myth that he is terrible is strange. He is not a road grader but he is pretty damn good. He had a bad year in 2015 amidst injury but he was pretty good the 2nd half of last season.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 8 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Funny I was just reading Kelce's grading against the Cowboys in the last game where he was ranked the best OL in that game. Kelce had a slow start but a good season. This myth that he is terrible is strange. He is not a road grader but he is pretty damn good. He had a bad year in 2015 amidst injury but he was pretty good the 2nd half of last season.

Totally agree. He might be ordinary at best, when it comes to standing up a 330 lbs nose-tackle without help from a guard. But he's easily top 5, and potentially the best the league at getting out, and pulling around the tackle after the snap. Know your people. Anybody who asks him to bulldoze a nose tackle 1-on-1 is guilty of being a shitty play caller. But I can't think of many who can match his movement skills and accuracy on attacking would be tacklers in space who are in his class.

Love him in the stretch game, off tackle, sweeps, and screens. But you have to live with the shortcomings on 3rd and goal at the one.
D Rock
An unmentioned aspect of the Saints "need" for a center, is the continued availability of Nick Mangold.

Personally, I think Kelce is the better player in 2017. But, Nick can still play, and would likely cost little beyond vet minimum.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 8 2017, 04:12 PM) *
Funny I was just reading Kelce's grading against the Cowboys in the last game where he was ranked the best OL in that game. Kelce had a slow start but a good season. This myth that he is terrible is strange. He is not a road grader but he is pretty damn good. He had a bad year in 2015 amidst injury but he was pretty good the 2nd half of last season.



He was getting blown up all the time. Through mid season, he was rated 33rd out of 32 starting C on PFF. forget about that, do you really forget all those times he got blown up and Wentz had to short step throws. He's worse for Wentz's mechanics than Wentz's baseball pitching. The year before he was horrible too.

To his credit, he did come on WIP and say how much he needed to improve, week after week.

OTOH, he did make the PB as an alternate which is good. Even if it was the 2nd or third alternate, he'd be seen as top 5 in the NFC.

I'd trade him in a second.
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 8 2017, 10:12 PM) *
Funny I was just reading Kelce's grading against the Cowboys in the last game where he was ranked the best OL in that game. Kelce had a slow start but a good season. This myth that he is terrible is strange. He is not a road grader but he is pretty damn good. He had a bad year in 2015 amidst injury but he was pretty good the 2nd half of last season.

I agree with you and DRock. Kelce started off rough, but they found a way to scheme his role much more effectively, as DRock mentioned. It's all a matter of maximizing what he does well.
Zero
Trading Kelce for Ingram in most any scenario is probably a fantasy, but if he's still as good as some say he is something could happen if needs match. The Eagles appear to need a go-to back and the Saints may need a starting center. The Eagles appear to be over stocked at C and the Saints appear to be overstocked at RB.

That said, what do the Saints know that AP can bring to the table? Trading their best RB last year would be risky.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 8 2017, 07:44 PM) *
Trading Kelce for Ingram in most any scenario is probably a fantasy, but if he's still as good as some say he is something could happen if needs match. The Eagles appear to need a go-to back and the Saints may need a starting center. The Eagles appear to be over stocked at C and the Saints appear to be overstocked at RB.

That said, what do the Saints know that AP can bring to the table? Trading their best RB last year would be risky.

And their center will only mss 6 games
Joegrane
"scheme his role" was my point. The eagles did that with Shady and Sproles. Kelce was not as good a fit for D Murray's style.

They are not going to design their offense of the future around him. They need a plug and play OC for this year. Does he fit what they've been doing in N.O?

Isn't A.P.'s style more like D. Murray than Shady and Sproles?

QUOTE (Pila @ May 8 2017, 06:32 PM) *
I agree with you and DRock. Kelce started off rough, but they found a way to scheme his role much more effectively, as DRock mentioned. It's all a matter of maximizing what he does well.

Pila
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 9 2017, 04:07 AM) *
"scheme his role" was my point. The eagles did that with Shady and Sproles. Kelce was not as good a fit for D Murray's style.

They are not going to design their offense of the future around him. They need a plug and play OC for this year. Does he fit what they've been doing in N.O?

Isn't A.P.'s style more like D. Murray than Shady and Sproles?
I'm not sure the scheme is that running back specific, but probably more so simply a matter of using Kelcy on pulls rather than the guard.

I'm guessing it's more complicated than that, but the point is to say that Kelce isn't that strong, but he is nimble. So it makes sense to have him on the move rather than straight ahead blocking up against stronger opponents. In that sense, RB is less of a consequence I think.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 8 2017, 06:13 PM) *
He was getting blown up all the time. Through mid season, he was rated 33rd out of 32 starting C on PFF. forget about that, do you really forget all those times he got blown up and Wentz had to short step throws. He's worse for Wentz's mechanics than Wentz's baseball pitching. The year before he was horrible too.

To his credit, he did come on WIP and say how much he needed to improve, week after week.

OTOH, he did make the PB as an alternate which is good. Even if it was the 2nd or third alternate, he'd be seen as top 5 in the NFC.

I'd trade him in a second.


Absolutely not...as I said, he had a rough start but was extremely solid from game 7 on. He was bad the prior year but that was due to playing injured which was repaired in the offseason. He may not be the greatest but he is not horrible. That being said the Saints are not going to trade Ingram. Last year he had Hightower to share carries with to keep him fresh and AP will take on that role. Kamara is not expected to be a starter but rather a Sproles type who is an all purpose threat, He is not expected to be a feature back. That would make the idea of trading Ingram kind of silly. AP is not young and was not having a good year before he got hurt last year.
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