Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: This team could surprise us
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Zero
No, I'm not suggesting the Eagles could go to the SB this year, but I am saying that I think they could be a much better team and could challenge for the division. They stocked up on offense and really only need a workhorse RB to complete. They have the potential to score consistently. And, they've quietly been patching up the defense. DT and CB are the biggest remaining needs/questions, but there are players the coaches like that we may be overlooking.

They will almost definitely draft a RB, probably fairly early. Chances are pretty good that Wentz will be better, the OL is deeper and they have at least one WR who has proven he can get open and catch the ball and another who has the ability to stretch the field. If they can consistently keep the opposition playing catch up, the weaknesses on the defense should be less critical and they will almost definitely be adding help for the D early. It helps that this is a deep draft and is loaded in the areas of our biggest needs.

I haven't been this excited for a season in almost a year. laugh.gif
Reality Fan
While I am not getting carried away for 2 less than amazing WRs they are clearly better than what any QB here has thrown to in awhile. They should have a pretty good offense. Where I have a good feeling is that I like their coaching staff. I said it before, as a rookie coach with a very inexperienced QB they could have easily had 10 or 11 wins and that is with a pretty mediocre defense and I am not sure getting rid of the 2 CBs from last year is a bad thing. I think that is overlooked. I was not a big Pederson guy but I can't deny that he did a pretty good job in the spot he was in.
Zero
Actually, Pederson is my biggest question mark outside of how Douglas will do. I think Pederson did a pretty decent job running the offense and negotiating some of the land mines that popped up, but I'm not convinced his love fest style will either elevate the team or endure over time.
HobbEs
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 3 2017, 08:17 AM) *
Actually, Pederson is my biggest question mark outside of how Douglas will do. I think Pederson did a pretty decent job running the offense and negotiating some of the land mines that popped up, but I'm not convinced his love fest style will either elevate the team or endure over time.


I was listening to WIP the other night and they were talking about how Pederson may just be a stop gap and the real guy would be DeFillipo. The host brought up how Pederson gave permission for him to interview with another team but Lurie blocked it.
Pila
I was very impressed with Pederson. I'm not sure his value as a tactician is truly appreciated considering the paucity at the skill position. In the end, he'll be judged on more than just Xs and Os, but that is a good start. And he isn't the tactless idiot Chip was as a leader of men. So at this point I have very high hopes for Pedey.
Zero
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Apr 3 2017, 09:19 AM) *
I was listening to WIP the other night and they were talking about how Pederson may just be a stop gap and the real guy would be DeFillipo. The host brought up how Pederson gave permission for him to interview with another team but Lurie blocked it.

I heard that too. I wonder what his coaches think of him, particularly as the leader. When I listen to him talk to reporters I get a headache, I'm almost embarrassed for him. It doesn't matter that much how he comes across at a podium to a room full of pundits and reporters, but if he's that way in a locker room I have to wonder how long it will be before he's getting wedgies from his players.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 3 2017, 08:17 AM) *
Actually, Pederson is my biggest question mark outside of how Douglas will do. I think Pederson did a pretty decent job running the offense and negotiating some of the land mines that popped up, but I'm not convinced his love fest style will either elevate the team or endure over time.


I thought he did a terrific job considering all that he had to deal with...I don't know how anyone can say on one hand what a dearth of talent existed on the team and then say that the coach did not do a great job. I think he connects well with the players and that was demonstrated by the team playing well with their obvious limitations. He may not be the best public communicator but he definitely got the players to perform.
The Franchise
After almost two decades of shitty play calling and clock management, I was super sensitive going into last year about Pederson - and he failed miserably in both regards. At least he (or whoever calls the shots) seemed to realize that if you're going to dial up 60 pass plays in a game, you should go out and get a couple WR's. Often times he called plays like a 12 year old playing Madden.

I'm excited about the season and think we will be a good deal better, but I can't help but wonder if we're doomed to the Reid-era 'success' of winning 10+ games every year then losing in the playoffs to elite teams with solid coaching.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 3 2017, 01:02 PM) *
After almost two decades of shitty play calling and clock management, I was super sensitive going into last year about Pederson - and he failed miserably in both regards. At least he (or whoever calls the shots) seemed to realize that if you're going to dial up 60 pass plays in a game, you should go out and get a couple WR's. Often times he called plays like a 12 year old playing Madden.

I'm excited about the season and think we will be a good deal better, but I can't help but wonder if we're doomed to the Reid-era 'success' of winning 10+ games every year then losing in the playoffs to elite teams with solid coaching.


It is this type of overreaction that clouds things....they threw 60 passes 1 time...the next closest one was 47....in a west coast offense that is not crazy. Wentz was actually 5th in attempts behind Brees and Rodgers and Bortles et al. I don't disagree with the idea that he made several mistakes in play calling as a rookie HC is likely to do but I find it tough to argue with the complete body of work.

It is also hard to discount the doom and gloom because, well, this is Philly and our history is rife with it.
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 3 2017, 05:19 PM) *
It is this type of overreaction that clouds things....they threw 60 passes 1 time...the next closest one was 47....in a west coast offense that is not crazy. Wentz was actually 5th in attempts behind Brees and Rodgers and Bortles et al. I don't disagree with the idea that he made several mistakes in play calling as a rookie HC is likely to do but I find it tough to argue with the complete body of work.

It is also hard to discount the doom and gloom because, well, this is Philly and our history is rife with it.

On the play calling - I thought Pedey was terrible when the play didn't work.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 3 2017, 12:19 PM) *
I don't disagree with the idea that he made several mistakes in play calling as a rookie HC is likely to do but I find it tough to argue with the complete body of work.


Like Reid, I think his overall body of work was fine, but as I said I'm extra sensitive about boneheaded clock management and play calling because little things like that are the difference between winning and losing against elite teams, as we saw for 14 years here. KC fans have now seen the same for a few years, highlighted by a disgraceful loss to the Steelers after going 12-4.

I'm not calling for his head, I'm just saying I see the same red flags. He needs an intervention.
Joegrane
I don't think we should forget the veteran coaches around Pedey.

They got off to a good start with so little talent at CB and esp WR. Of course opponents had no tape on them, but it suggests they know how to run a team.

I doubt that Pedey has a high ceiling but with the right people around him, I bet he'll be okay.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 3 2017, 12:19 PM) *
It is this type of overreaction that clouds things....they threw 60 passes 1 time...the next closest one was 47....in a west coast offense that is not crazy. Wentz was actually 5th in attempts behind Brees and Rodgers and Bortles et al. I don't disagree with the idea that he made several mistakes in play calling as a rookie HC is likely to do but I find it tough to argue with the complete body of work.

It is also hard to discount the doom and gloom because, well, this is Philly and our history is rife with it.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Apr 3 2017, 06:01 PM) *
I don't think we should forget the veteran coaches around Pedey.

They got off to a good start with so little talent at CB and esp WR. Of course opponents had no tape on them, but it suggests they know how to run a team.

I doubt that Pedey has a high ceiling but with the right people around him, I bet he'll be okay.


I have to assume Pederson formed his own staff....and that was the reason Andy was so successful.....where Andy failed was keeping the band together....

I think Pederson may have a high ceiling...I think he did pretty well as a rookie HC with a rookie QB and losing his real starter 2 weeks before the season as well as all the other incidents....I am optimistic about him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 3 2017, 09:07 AM) *
I heard that too. I wonder what his coaches think of him, particularly as the leader. When I listen to him talk to reporters I get a headache, I'm almost embarrassed for him. It doesn't matter that much how he comes across at a podium to a room full of pundits and reporters, but if he's that way in a locker room I have to wonder how long it will be before he's getting wedgies from his players.


I will give you that his 60 minute sit down with the press the other day was tough to take, However, I find his post game press conferences to be refreshingly honest. Free of the Chip quips and the Andy's insults to our intelligence, I like what I see. Comfortable in his own skin. I think his demeanor is mature for his experience.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 3 2017, 08:12 AM) *
I said it before, as a rookie coach with a very inexperienced QB they could have easily had 10 or 11 wins and that is with a pretty mediocre defense and I am not sure getting rid of the 2 CBs from last year is a bad thing. I think that is overlooked. I was not a big Pederson guy but I can't deny that he did a pretty good job in the spot he was in.

Right, they could have, no, should have had more wins. A few of them can be directly attributed to Pedersen. The most concerning thing about him isn't about him making mistakes--we expected that--but the fact that he seems to refuse to learn from his mistakes is extremely concerning. He reminds me so much of his mentor Reid in this regard it makes me sick to my stomach.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Apr 4 2017, 07:02 AM) *
Right, they could have, no, should have had more wins. A few of them can be directly attributed to Pedersen. The most concerning thing about him isn't about him making mistakes--we expected that--but the fact that he seems to refuse to learn from his mistakes is extremely concerning. He reminds me so much of his mentor Reid in this regard it makes me sick to my stomach.


I am of the opinion that we will only be able to tell if he has learned anything during this season....does he improve? Every coach makes mistakes that cost games. It is a gut thing.....but I have liked what I have seen from him overall. I understand some people worried because his oratory skills are not slick but I am with Mikey......I think he is just a straight shooter, unlike Andy, and he stumbles through being honest and not embarrassing players.....some times he tiptoes...I think we will have a pretty good idea about him by week 8 of this season
Pila
I don't remember seeing repeated mistakes. And time management was handled very well in general.

From what I observed, I noted almost none of the vices that have typically haunted his mentor. To me at least, this inference to Reid's flaws appear to be superficial, an association bias.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Pila @ Apr 4 2017, 10:29 AM) *
I don't remember seeing repeated mistakes. And time management was handled very well in general.

From what I observed, I noted almost none of the vices that have typically haunted his mentor. To me at least, this inference to Reid's flaws appear to be superficial, an association bias.


I spent much of the year trying my best to find excuses for him to not be tied to Andy. It didn't work. He constantly went for stupid 4th downs when he should've taken the points, a lot of his 4th down escapades involved running plays that started off backwards, and he put way too much burden on his rookie QB with shitty WR's, not using the running game enough. Throw in a failed challenge that would've gained us 2 yards if successful, and all I start to see is a 300 pound man with a moustache.

I don't remember every single fuckup, but he definitely cost us at least 2 games. And we had no business at all winning that last game against the Giants, with him taking points off the board late in the game and not forcing the Giants to use their last timeout.

I'm perfectly ok with chalking it all up to rookie mistakes and pressure from fans and players to deliver, but he's got to *ahem* 'do a better job' this year.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 4 2017, 01:32 PM) *
I spent much of the year trying my best to find excuses for him to not be tied to Andy. It didn't work. He constantly went for stupid 4th downs when he should've taken the points, a lot of his 4th down escapades involved running plays that started off backwards, and he put way too much burden on his rookie QB with shitty WR's, not using the running game enough. Throw in a failed challenge that would've gained us 2 yards if successful, and all I start to see is a 300 pound man with a moustache.

I don't remember every single fuckup, but he definitely cost us at least 2 games. And we had no business at all winning that last game against the Giants, with him taking points off the board late in the game and not forcing the Giants to use their last timeout.

I'm perfectly ok with chalking it all up to rookie mistakes and pressure from fans and players to deliver, but he's got to *ahem* 'do a better job' this year.


The Eagles went for it on 4th down much more than any team but they were nearly 50% in those conversions. But you can't mention it without context....where those decisions were made and the distance needed.
There are a few things I disagree with from your premise though....first, he did not put undue pressure on his QB by not running due to shitty WRs, he had shitty RBs.....that is on his genius GM. Poor drafting. Add to that a lost RT and there was not some glory running game to rely on. His offense is a west coast offense which has always had a major short passing game component.

I recall one game that he screwed up and lost it for them but another game was on Wentz. On the flip side I think he kept them in a few games that should have and could have been wins.

Like I said, we will soon see. I may be a pied eyed optimist with him but I came away from his first season happily surprised with his performance. I expected much less.
Pila
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 4 2017, 06:32 PM) *
I spent much of the year trying my best to find excuses for him to not be tied to Andy. It didn't work. He constantly went for stupid 4th downs when he should've taken the points, a lot of his 4th down escapades involved running plays that started off backwards, and he put way too much burden on his rookie QB with shitty WR's, not using the running game enough. Throw in a failed challenge that would've gained us 2 yards if successful, and all I start to see is a 300 pound man with a moustache.

I don't remember every single fuckup, but he definitely cost us at least 2 games. And we had no business at all winning that last game against the Giants, with him taking points off the board late in the game and not forcing the Giants to use their last timeout.

I'm perfectly ok with chalking it all up to rookie mistakes and pressure from fans and players to deliver, but he's got to *ahem* 'do a better job' this year.
I think we've all conceded that he's made mistakes and that minimally it may have lost a game or two.

Specifically, I was addressing the issue of repeated mistakes, the sort that develop over years. Nothing of what you mention is really characteristic to Reid's handicaps specifically. Every coach has gone for failed 4th downs. I don't remember this being a Reid trademark. Reid's well known notorious, habitual trip-ups is timeout-wasting, poor hurry-up execution, slow with play calls and an out-of-average, heavy-passing play selection.

None of these specifics came up as a trend.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ Apr 4 2017, 02:57 PM) *
I think we've all conceded that he's made mistakes and that minimally it may have lost a game or two.

Specifically, I was addressing the issue of repeated mistakes, the sort that develop over years. Nothing of what you mention is really characteristic to Reid's handicaps specifically. Every coach has gone for failed 4th downs. I don't remember this being a Reid trademark. Reid's well known notorious, habitual trip-ups is timeout-wasting, poor hurry-up execution, slow with play calls and an out-of-average, heavy-passing play selection.

None of these specifics came up as a trend.



You know....I have noticed over the last year or so you and I agree way too much...I am not sure which of us should be more frightened by that..lol

blah.gif
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 4 2017, 10:01 PM) *
You know....I have noticed over the last year or so you and I agree way too much...I am not sure which of us should be more frightened by that..lol

blah.gif


Probably you - mrs. Pila says I'm always wrong. And she's never wrong, so...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Pila @ Apr 4 2017, 05:12 PM) *
Probably you - mrs. Pila says I'm always wrong. And she's never wrong, so...

Bwah!

True.

Womenfolk.

They never forget a screw up.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 4 2017, 08:26 PM) *
Bwah!

True.

Womenfolk.

They never forget a screw up.


Tell em about it...my GF remembers every damn thing I have ever said to her or done....it is frightening....lol
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.