Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: As the cap turns, updated numbers
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
nephillymike
No idea why, but NFLPA # has come down.

$5,045,000 per OTC

$4,751,000 per NFLPA

$1,648,000 per SPOTRAC

Whatever floats your boat.
Joegrane
So that leaves me hopeful that they still have cap room for a bottom of the barrel veteran CB to help mentor the two rookies that will likely be coming.

After looking at the list of Top 51 contracts it appears that most of the rookies will replace guys in the Top 51. One or two might end up on the PS or be lost to other teams.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 26 2017, 07:33 PM) *
No idea why, but NFLPA # has come down.

$5,045,000 per OTC

$4,751,000 per NFLPA

$1,648,000 per SPOTRAC

Whatever floats your boat.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 26 2017, 08:33 PM) *
No idea why, but NFLPA # has come down.

$5,045,000 per OTC

$4,751,000 per NFLPA

$1,648,000 per SPOTRAC

Whatever floats your boat.



lol....I did not have a lot of doubt....I just wish there was some way to get at least a little certainty so we all could inderstand it a bit better. I am merely trying to make educated guesses from what is available in total (and bust Phits for some goodhearted fun..lol) I know I could be as wrong as Chip Kelly coaching in the NFL...and I hope I am. From everything I have seen, read, heard, etc it looks like Howie is really in a bad cap place.

Joegrane
RF, I don't understand why you think the are " really in a bad cap place."

Do you think they have to sign a couple more FAs and don't have the room?

Are you opposed to cutting some of the older or injured veterans--Matthews, Ron Brooks, one veteran OLineman?

It seems that the situation is playing out okay for them.

If I understand correctly they have until June 1 to get their top 51 under the cap. That is well after the draft so they'll have a feel for which holes they've been able to fill with rookies and who they were able to move during the draft----Kendricks, Kelce, etc.

That also gives Matthews and Brooks more time to heal. They should have a better feel for what those two could do no? Is there a hard limit to how much they can work out for the team in late May.

As I mentioned above, there are quite a few players in the current Top 51 who could fairly easily be replaced by draft picks at lower salaries.

I'm not suggesting they are in great shape, especially without any veteran outside CBs and with a big ? at starting RB. I'm just saying the situation seems manageable.

I realize Lurie has typically left more than 5$mil cap space but they seem to be trying to make a run at the playoffs this year. It might be reasonable to leave less cap space than usual.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 26 2017, 09:24 PM) *
lol....I did not have a lot of doubt....I just wish there was some way to get at least a little certainty so we all could inderstand it a bit better. I am merely trying to make educated guesses from what is available in total (and bust Phits for some goodhearted fun..lol) I know I could be as wrong as Chip Kelly coaching in the NFL...and I hope I am. From everything I have seen, read, heard, etc it looks like Howie is really in a bad cap place.

Zero
RF is right. It started with Kelly, who has no talent/experience/feel for managing the cap. He exasperated the problem by alienating 3/4 of the players and made the Eagles a destination to avoid for FA in the NFL. He essentially tried to tap a keg with a log splitter. Roseman tried to fix the problem(s) by dumping malcontent salary mistakes and extending mostly unproven players. Now they have more harmony in the locker room but almost no flexibility in FA acquisitions. He had to fix the holes before raising the sail or the boat would have sunk. For me, the only question is if those extensions end up paying off on the field.

And you're right. If we expect a SB run this year the cap is a roadblock, but there are a couple of ways around it that may avoid the wreck but it means a longer trip. 2011 should have taught us the odds don't favor high speed approach to team building, so going forward Roseman needs to find a way to add affordable young talent while cap planning for their eventual salary demands.

I keep saying it, let's hope Douglas is the real deal because Roseman hasn't proven he's any more than a numbers guy.
nephillymike
If they cut 2 of the 3 targets, clear the salaries for the draft picks, we should have cap space in the mid teens after those moves. If their plan was to save it for next year, 15M is fine. If they plan to sign more FA's, then we should be able to get a few low to mid guys, if there is anyone worth signing.

Who knows, maybe they intend to bring all three back! Wouldn't that be a surprise?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 27 2017, 06:27 AM) *
If they cut 2 of the 3 targets, clear the salaries for the draft picks, we should have cap space in the mid teens after those moves. If their plan was to save it for next year, 15M is fine. If they plan to sign more FA's, then we should be able to get a few low to mid guys, if there is anyone worth signing.

Who knows, maybe they intend to bring all three back! Wouldn't that be a surprise?


God I love the fantasy world...loll.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 27 2017, 12:14 AM) *
RF, I don't understand why you think the are " really in a bad cap place."

Do you think they have to sign a couple more FAs and don't have the room?

Are you opposed to cutting some of the older or injured veterans--Matthews, Ron Brooks, one veteran OLineman?

It seems that the situation is playing out okay for them.

If I understand correctly they have until June 1 to get their top 51 under the cap. That is well after the draft so they'll have a feel for which holes they've been able to fill with rookies and who they were able to move during the draft----Kendricks, Kelce, etc.

That also gives Matthews and Brooks more time to heal. They should have a better feel for what those two could do no? Is there a hard limit to how much they can work out for the team in late May.

As I mentioned above, there are quite a few players in the current Top 51 who could fairly easily be replaced by draft picks at lower salaries.

I'm not suggesting they are in great shape, especially without any veteran outside CBs and with a big ? at starting RB. I'm just saying the situation seems manageable.

I realize Lurie has typically left more than 5$mil cap space but they seem to be trying to make a run at the playoffs this year. It might be reasonable to leave less cap space than usual.


Joe, I am simple a realist. So they cut Brooks, something I mentioned much earlier, and then what? Do they draft 4 CBs and go with all rookies? Matthews is gone so I don;t get you even mentioning him because that is silly, no one suggests he isn't. The question is whether the other 2 go and why they haven't been cut sooner. The situation is manageable, just like a tree falling on your roof....you can manage it but it is something you didn't want to happen.
nephillymike
No idea why, the numbers don't include Robinson or Long, but they are now closer to each other:

OTC 3.1M
NFLPA 2.8M
SPOTRAC 1.6M

Should be interesting what they do with these two new contracts. If the cap value of these two contracts is more than 1.1M above these numbers, then you know they're wrong as you can't be over the cap at any time. 1.1M is roughly the value of removing two players at 540K each from the 51 to make room for these two players.
Joegrane
Not surprised about the signing of an inexpensive veteran CB, however did not realize they'd have $ to also sign a veteran DE.

It appears the biggest needs heading into the draft will be a starting CB spot and RB.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 27 2017, 08:57 AM) *
Joe, I am simple a realist. So they cut Brooks, something I mentioned much earlier, and then what? Do they draft 4 CBs and go with all rookies? Matthews is gone so I don;t get you even mentioning him because that is silly, no one suggests he isn't. The question is whether the other 2 go and why they haven't been cut sooner. The situation is manageable, just like a tree falling on your roof....you can manage it but it is something you didn't want to happen.


QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 26 2017, 09:00 PM) *
So that leaves me hopeful that they still have cap room for a bottom of the barrel veteran CB to help mentor the two rookies that will likely be coming.

After looking at the list of Top 51 contracts it appears that most of the rookies will replace guys in the Top 51. One or two might end up on the PS or be lost to other teams.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 28 2017, 09:16 PM) *
Not surprised about the signing of an inexpensive veteran CB, however did not realize they'd have $ to also sign a veteran DE.

It appears the biggest needs heading into the draft will be a starting CB spot and RB.


lol...they signed a guy the Colts didn't want after one year of a 3 year contract in a position of need for them....not exactly a move to give the warm and fuzzies. As I said early on.....they will sign guys who are even worse than what we had because of money......
Joegrane
I agree with you. I wonder how much of it is cap reality and how much of it is finding guys that Schwartz wants to have on his team. Remember, E Rowe got the boot not because Howie did not like him. Schwartz was not giving him PT.

It seems strange that they've retained veterans on the O line, a unit that is not nearly as big a problem as the CBs.

Could it be that veterans don't want to come here because they suspect the Eagles are going to draft two CBs in the top three rounds?

Maybe Howie only wants FAs to sign for one year because he wants to build through the draft.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 28 2017, 10:46 PM) *
lol...they signed a guy the Colts didn't want after one year of a 3 year contract in a position of need for them....not exactly a move to give the warm and fuzzies. As I said early on.....they will sign guys who are even worse than what we had because of money......

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 29 2017, 12:04 AM) *
I agree with you. I wonder how much of it is cap reality and how much of it is finding guys that Schwartz wants to have on his team. Remember, E Rowe got the boot not because Howie did not like him. Schwartz was not giving him PT.

It seems strange that they've retained veterans on the O line, a unit that is not nearly as big a problem as the CBs.

Could it be that veterans don't want to come here because they suspect the Eagles are going to draft two CBs in the top three rounds?

Maybe Howie only wants FAs to sign for one year because he wants to build through the draft.


There was an article on Philly.com that detailed the one year contracts...a lot of them are at the want of the player to set themselves up for bigger paydays if they play well for one year when they don't get the big money long term contract they wanted.

Rowe was dumped because Kelly drafted him and Howie purged every Kelly guy he could....except Hart...he must cut Howie's grass.

I don't know why you find it strange they kept the O line together...just another block to overcompensate for Wentz's success.

FAs did not want to come here because there was no money for them and they and their agents knew that.
nephillymike
While they don't have the cap hits figured out, SPOTRAC lists

Long 2 yrs for 4.8M
Robinson 1yr for 1M.

Should be interesting to see the cap hit.



Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 29 2017, 12:57 AM) *
There was an article on Philly.com that detailed the one year contracts...a lot of them are at the want of the player to set themselves up for bigger paydays if they play well for one year when they don't get the big money long term contract they wanted.

Rowe was dumped because Kelly drafted him and Howie purged every Kelly guy he could....except Hart...he must cut Howie's grass.

I don't know why you find it strange they kept the O line together...just another block to overcompensate for Wentz's success.

FAs did not want to come here because there was no money for them and they and their agents knew that.

Maybe you're right about Rowe, but are you suggesting that Roseman told Schwartz not to play him? And why would a player choose a one year deal if he had been offered a long term deal? I think the answer is that the market wasn't there for him due to factors of his making. No doubt the Eagles are between a rock and a cactus with the cap, but getting those players on a one year deal is better than standing pat or settling for lower grade players who are affordable.

I accept that I'm the drooling optimist most of the time, but dude, you are the Emperor of Cynic. It's either me as OptiMystic or it's a reasonable perspective, but the addition of Joe Douglas and his loyal sidekick Andy Weidl have burned the back trail of the Eagles personnel ineptitude. I realize Roseman is still the shooter, but if what we're reading is right, then his new spotter can be expected to have a chance to improve his accuracy.

The Eagles have two major targets to hit: fixing the cap and drafting well. Roseman is suited for the first and we hope Douglas is capable of the second.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 29 2017, 06:39 AM) *
Maybe you're right about Rowe, but are you suggesting that Roseman told Schwartz not to play him? And why would a player choose a one year deal if he had been offered a long term deal? I think the answer is that the market wasn't there for him due to factors of his making. No doubt the Eagles are between a rock and a cactus with the cap, but getting those players on a one year deal is better than standing pat or settling for lower grade players who are affordable.

I accept that I'm the drooling optimist most of the time, but dude, you are the Emperor of Cynic. It's either me as OptiMystic or it's a reasonable perspective, but the addition of Joe Douglas and his loyal sidekick Andy Weidl have burned the back trail of the Eagles personnel ineptitude. I realize Roseman is still the shooter, but if what we're reading is right, then his new spotter can be expected to have a chance to improve his accuracy.

The Eagles have two major targets to hit: fixing the cap and drafting well. Roseman is suited for the first and we hope Douglas is capable of the second.


First, yes...and I think they didn't play him because Howie made it clear he was gone or do you think that Howie and the 2 most prominent coaches don't talk?
Second, the players take one year deals to gamble on a good year and the chance to get a better long term deal than what they were offered this year.
Third, it is not about optimism or pessimism but rather realism. I simply look at the numbers.
Fourth, Howie created this cap hell so I don't think he drafts well and I don't think he is the cap guy that Banner was.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 29 2017, 09:55 AM) *
First, yes...and I think they didn't play him because Howie made it clear he was gone or do you think that Howie and the 2 most prominent coaches don't talk?
Second, the players take one year deals to gamble on a good year and the chance to get a better long term deal than what they were offered this year.
Third, it is not about optimism or pessimism but rather realism. I simply look at the numbers.
Fourth, Howie created this cap hell so I don't think he drafts well and I don't think he is the cap guy that Banner was.

I didn't say you were a pessimist, I said you were a cynic.

I have a very hard time believing that Schwartz, a proven defensive coordinator would listen to a non football guy on football matters, especially with the problems he had at CB. Plus, almost every report I remember reading about Rowe said he looked lost on the field.

I don't think Roseman drafts well either which is the reason for Douglas. He may not be as good as Banner, but he's pretty good with contracts, the cap and negotiating deals.

OTC had the Eagles' cap at $8,350,492 in '15 (8th most) and $8,823,433 in '16 (10th). The Jags had the most in '15 with $33,119,720 and the Browns in '16 with $49,470,715. Now, the Eagles have $3,118,689 while the 9ers have the most with $76,492,502.

First, there's a dramatic spike in cap space at the top of the list in '17, 35%. The Eagles spent their money to retain their younger players and to send a message to a team that watched as a pro-bowl caliber player was released in his prime, another traded for an injured LB and a non productive WR was kept after publicly making a racial slur. It's easy to say Roseman put them in cap hell and although that's true it was far from mismanagement.
Joegrane
I agree about the Schwartz - Howie relationship. While I suspect Howie has some ego problems I don't think he is stupid. I bet he is relying quite heavily on Schwartz's opinions.

The "cap hell" is partially due to what you describe--the need to establish a young core after the ChipK debocle.

However other problems related to Chip are also seen in the cap limitations--Bradford's dead $, a pile of $ spend on the new HC's backup QB, etc.

The good news is that they will clear some significant $ soon--Daniels, Peters, Sproles. Unfortunately the latter two have been impact players who have not been replaced.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 29 2017, 03:38 PM) *
...
I have a very hard time believing that Schwartz, a proven defensive coordinator would listen to a non football guy on football matters, especially with the problems he had at CB. Plus, almost every report I remember reading about Rowe said he looked lost on the field.

... The Eagles spent their money to retain their younger players and to send a message to a team that watched as a pro-bowl caliber player was released in his prime, another traded for an injured LB and a non productive WR was kept after publicly making a racial slur. It's easy to say Roseman put them in cap hell and although that's true it was far from mismanagement.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 29 2017, 08:55 AM) *
First, yes...and I think they didn't play him because Howie made it clear he was gone or do you think that Howie and the 2 most prominent coaches don't talk?
Second, the players take one year deals to gamble on a good year and the chance to get a better long term deal than what they were offered this year.
Third, it is not about optimism or pessimism but rather realism. I simply look at the numbers.
Fourth, Howie created this cap hell so I don't think he drafts well and I don't think he is the cap guy that Banner was.

Geez.

This is a level of cynicism that would make a life long Axis blush!

No way Howie told Schwartz not to play the kid.

Schwartz brought in his two guys of questionable talent, McKelvin and Brooks, and promised them opportunities. Carroll was the returning best CB from the year before. Rowe wasn't given favorable treatment, or maybe not even a fair shake, but he was struggling in camp. These confluences ran together and he was buried on the depth chart and Howie saw an opportunity to trade a potential 3rd round pick for the 5th CB. He took it.

A lone gunman. No shooter from the grassy knoll.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 29 2017, 09:21 PM) *
Geez.

This is a level of cynicism that would make a life long Axis blush!

No way Howie told Schwartz not to play the kid.

Schwartz brought in his two guys of questionable talent, McKelvin and Brooks, and promised them opportunities. Carroll was the returning best CB from the year before. Rowe wasn't given favorable treatment, or maybe not even a fair shake, but he was struggling in camp. These confluences ran together and he was buried on the depth chart and Howie saw an opportunity to trade a potential 3rd round pick for the 5th CB. He took it.

A lone gunman. No shooter from the grassy knoll.


And suddenly he sprouted into a starter on a SB team.........it is one of a very few things.
1. A colossal talent evaluation failure
2. A spite move
3. Poor coaching/poor GMing

Take your pick.....none of them are pleasant
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 29 2017, 10:54 PM) *
And suddenly he sprouted into a starter on a SB team.........it is one of a very few things.
1. A colossal talent evaluation failure
2. A spite move
3. Poor coaching/poor GMing

Take your pick.....none of them are pleasant

Stop. If the coach wasn't using him and the GM thought he could get something for him maybe they jumped too quickly, but it doesn't have to be the extremes that give you the sweats. Plus they probably knew the draft would be rich in CBs.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 30 2017, 05:29 AM) *
Stop. If the coach wasn't using him and the GM thought he could get something for him maybe they jumped too quickly, but it doesn't have to be the extremes that give you the sweats. Plus they probably knew the draft would be rich in CBs.



Of course...like they looked at the draft 3 years out to know they had to get Wentz.....Schefter had a good laugh about that on the radio yesterday.

As far as Rowe goes? He played well to end his first year.....including 5 starts......to assume that he suddenly was demoted and made expendable for the likes of what was on the roster is naive in my opinion. I can understand not starting (actually I can't for a guy like McKelvin but I will be reasonable and suspend disbelief) but to move so far down the chart? With the dreck that they had? To give away a guy from a position of need who goes on to a prominent role on a SB team?

It had to be one of those 3 things.....and the question becomes why wouldn't he figure in from the start....even the beat writers mentioned that it was possibly a personal Howie thing to purge more of the Kelly stain...

But hey...Rowe is happy....
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 30 2017, 08:11 AM) *
As far as Rowe goes? He played well to end his first year.....including 5 starts......to assume that he suddenly was demoted and made expendable for the likes of what was on the roster is naive in my opinion. I can understand not starting (actually I can't for a guy like McKelvin but I will be reasonable and suspend disbelief) but to move so far down the chart? With the dreck that they had? To give away a guy from a position of need who goes on to a prominent role on a SB team?
I agree with most of this. But, if Schwartz, for whatever reason, didn't feel that Rowe was a fit and wasn't doing what was needed it's better to get something in return for him. I don't believe for a second that Schwartz would allow Roseman to make that call.
nephillymike
We are rolling in cap space, according to RFs favorite SPOTRAC!

They just bumped their cap space from 1.6 up to 7.1M!

They lowered the dead money by 900K to reflect Daniel's signing.

And, surprise surprise, they recorded 4.6M of adjustments to increase the cap available. Probably 2016 LTBE bonuses that were unearned and crediting out. I actually sent them an email about it the other day. No reply, but viola! more cap room.

Still have to account for a few mill of cap for Long and Robinson, my guess is about 2M for that.

RF, put on your Sunday's best outfit.

Time to go FA shopping!

devil03.gif


Joegrane
Rowe looked horrible during the preseason. Clearly he had regressed from his encouraging performance in the later part of the previous year.

Mills and the other UDFA rookie CBs looked more professional than Rowe did, even though they looked overmatched physically.

His non-verbal language was so unprofessional. Something happened to him. It was as if he was smoking pot before the game.

I was surprised when they traded him. It was my hope that being benched in favor of a 7th rounder would send a message. Then when other CBs went down, there would be pressure from the entire team for him to step up, be responsible, and potentially be a hero.

At least they'll get a little something for him.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 30 2017, 08:45 AM) *
I agree with most of this. But, if Schwartz, for whatever reason, didn't feel that Rowe was a fit and wasn't doing what was needed it's better to get something in return for him. I don't believe for a second that Schwartz would allow Roseman to make that call.

nephillymike
SPOTRAC 7.9M
NFLPA. 3.7M
OTC 2.7M.

OTC has Long listed with a cap hit of 1.85M for this year.

Looking at the details, Howie used the voidable years option again, oddly enough, to save 150K of cap hit in each of the next two years. Odd.

Robinson not in the detail.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.