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GroundedBird
... I want Rueben Foster if he's there at #14. He's been dropping a little and *could* be in the area.

When I see him I think of what Dawkins would have been if he was a LB.

Take a look -> Rueben Foster

D Rock
I don't see us going LB in round 1.

My guess is DE or CB.

My wish is McCaffrey the RB outta Stanford. His versatility would be a great tool in this offense's tool box.

The Franchise
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ Mar 17 2017, 01:16 PM) *
... I want Rueben Foster if he's there at #14.


No. Get a CB.
Dreagon
John Ross - wr - Washington

You got your QB, now you need to give him his weapons.
Zero
I won't be surprised to see the draft Cook. The offseason has been about Wentz and the offense and a playmaking RB is the last piece.
D Rock
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 17 2017, 10:48 PM) *
I won't be surprised to see the draft Cook. The offseason has been about Wentz and the offense and a playmaking RB is the last piece.

I'd go McCaffery over Cook. Not even close.
Zero
It sounds like Cook is considered the better runner but has had a lot surgeries and some off field issues. Is McCaffery big/durable enough to be an every down back?

Edit: McCaffery's biggest weakness sounds like his strength/size, but he's sounds like a perfect fit for Pederson's offense. Doesn't sound like he would be a 20 carry back but if Pederson goes back to a three-headed monster committee he'll need to add a bruiser. Sounds a lot like Smallwood but better.
GroundedBird
I understand the desire to have a RB. This is a deep draft for RB. Next year is supposed to be good too (when Sproles retires). Perhaps we can draft a workhorse back (James Conner, Donta Foreman or Samaje Perine) later in the draft and use Smallwood for pass catching downs.

I also understand the desire to draft a CB early. While this is a need, I think a pass rush can help good CBs by limiting the time they need to cover. Didinger said that CBs drafted late 3rd/4th this year have the quality of 1st/2nd rounders in other years. He also said that CBs need a few years to develop.

Outside of Solomon and Garrett there really isn't a good pass rusher with decent size.

That's why I like Foster. He's very explosive, CBS coaches said they had to game plan around him. I think he will naturally press the QB and can get there from the LB area. I think of him as a cross between Dawkins and Lawrence Taylor. He can help our defense in many ways, including our DBs.

Just my opinion, but I think teams will regret passing over him.
Zero
Schwartz doesn't blitz often. How does that affect what you're suggesting?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 18 2017, 03:48 AM) *
I'd go McCaffery over Cook. Not even close.



Me too...but I went to high school with his dad and uncle.....not so old...ehhh? ac6.gif
GroundedBird
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 18 2017, 12:43 PM) *
Schwartz doesn't blitz often. How does that affect what you're suggesting?


While it's true that Schwartz doesn't blitz often, he does blitz. He's been quoted as saying the following:

"I've been there before where you can't get pressure and you have to blitz, and it's not a great feeling," Schwartz admitted. "You want to blitz on your terms. You want to be able to blitz when you want to when the situation is right, not, well, we can't generate a pass rush unless we do." (link)

"We find a lot of the top teams are ones that don't necessarily blitz often, but they just have a strong pass rush so occasionally adding another player only helps," Jahnke wrote.

That seems to be Schwartz's philosophy. He doesn't blitz much, but when he does, his blitzes have traditionally been hard to stop. (link)

======

so it would seem to me that if Schwartz blitzes 20% of the time (about 8-10 times a game) he would want to make sure that he gets appropriate pressure.

Foster is known for his amazing closing speed (link), so that would make blitzing Foster more effective.

======

btw, did he write this book (link)?
nephillymike
Well, I did a little research to put it in perspective.

I looked at the prospect rankings from three sites, NFL.com, cbs draftscout, draftek.

I looked at the prospects that were ranked between #9 and #32 on the draft boards of the three sites and list those that are in loosely defined positions of need (ie, excluding QB's and OG and S). I then looked at five mocks, one from draftek, Jeremiah and Chris from nfl.com and two from cbs, and for any ranked #9 thru #32 that were available in at least one of the five mocks, I included them in the estimated draft board. Here is that list, starting with the rank 9-32, name, position and the % times of the five mocks they were available:

Rank....Prospect.........Pos.....% Avail
#9.......Cooks.............RB..........100%
#10.....Howard...........TE..........20%
#11.....Foster..............LB..........80%
#12.....Williams..........WR.........60%
#13.....Davis..............WR..........40%
----------------------------------------------
#14.....Reddick...........LB...........80%
#15.....Peppers...........LB..........100%
#16.....Ramcyzk.........OT...........100%
#17.....McDowell.........DT..........100%
#18.....Ross................WR..........60%
#19.....Njoku..............TE..........100%
#20.....Humphrey.......CB..........100%
#21.....Charlton..........DE..........100%
#22.....McCaffrey........RB............80%
#23.....McKinley..........DE..........100%
#24.....Harris..............DE..........100%
#25.....Williams...........DE..........100%
#26.....T. White...........CB..........100%
#27.....Brantley...........DT...........100%
#28.....Conley.............CB............80%
#29.....Awuzie.............CB...........80%
#30.....Kamara............RB..........100%
#31.....Wilson..............CB..........100%
#32.....J. Lewis............CB...........100%

That should be a good representation of the available players on draft night. Note that because of the mocks, players #9 - #13, while technically before our slot, are available most of the tie because of picks that were rated lower, but drafted ahead on #9.

I need to do so research into who fits, so I'll answer after I look into it.
Eyrie
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 19 2017, 02:05 AM) *
Well, I did a little research to put it in perspective.

I looked at the prospect rankings from three sites, NFL.com, cbs draftscout, draftek.

I looked at the prospects that were ranked between #9 and #32 on the draft boards of the three sites and list those that are in loosely defined positions of need (ie, excluding QB's and OG and S). I then looked at five mocks, one from draftek, Jeremiah and Chris from nfl.com and two from cbs, and for any ranked #9 thru #32 that were available in at least one of the five mocks, I included them in the estimated draft board. Here is that list, starting with the rank 9-32, name, position and the % times of the five mocks they were available:

Rank....Prospect.........Pos.....% Avail
#9.......Cooks.............RB..........100%
#10.....Howard...........TE..........20%
#11.....Foster..............LB..........80%
#12.....Williams..........WR.........60%
#13.....Davis..............WR..........40%
----------------------------------------------
#14.....Reddick...........LB...........80%
#15.....Peppers...........LB..........100%
#16.....Ramcyzk.........OT...........100%
#17.....McDowell.........DT..........100%
#18.....Ross................WR..........60%
#19.....Njoku..............TE..........100%
#20.....Humphrey.......CB..........100%
#21.....Charlton..........DE..........100%
#22.....McCaffrey........RB............80%
#23.....McKinley..........DE..........100%
#24.....Harris..............DE..........100%
#25.....Williams...........DE..........100%
#26.....T. White...........CB..........100%
#27.....Brantley...........DT...........100%
#28.....Conley.............CB............80%
#29.....Awuzie.............CB...........80%
#30.....Kamara............RB..........100%
#31.....Wilson..............CB..........100%
#32.....J. Lewis............CB...........100%

That should be a good representation of the available players on draft night. Note that because of the mocks, players #9 - #13, while technically before our slot, are available most of the tie because of picks that were rated lower, but drafted ahead on #9.

I need to do so research into who fits, so I'll answer after I look into it.

Interesting that the CBs are ranked lower, so there is a possibility of trading back to take one in the 20s.
nephillymike
http://www.phillyvoice.com/2017-nfl-draft-big-board-roundup/

Here is another summary of top 25 on the big boards.

There will be some good ones there at #14.
Joegrane
According to ourlads draft chart, moving down from 14 to 18 would get you a mid-late 3rd rounder.

Moving down to 23 would get you a mid-late 2nd rounder.

Tra. White is interesting since he is also supposedly a good punt returner.

Moving down to 18 seems attractive. The resulting third rounder plus the Eagles' high 4th rounder could get them a low 2nd rounder.

QUOTE (Eyrie @ Mar 19 2017, 07:01 AM) *
Interesting that the CBs are ranked lower, so there is a possibility of trading back to take one in the 20s.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 19 2017, 08:34 PM) *
According to ourlads draft chart, moving down from 14 to 18 would get you a mid-late 3rd rounder.

Moving down to 23 would get you a mid-late 2nd rounder.

Tra. White is interesting since he is also supposedly a good punt returner.

Moving down to 18 seems attractive. The resulting third rounder plus the Eagles' high 4th rounder could get them a low 2nd rounder.


I wonder about draft board compilation.

There are 256 drafted players. Add another for top UDFA,s and you may have a draftable board of 300 or so players.

Take about 100 or so off because of system mismatches, character issues etc.

That leaves about 200 left. Even if you have twice as many levels on the board than rounds, that gives you 200 for 14 levels, or about 14 prospects per level. With that many for each level, teams should be in a position to trade down often and still be able to get a guy on the same level. I think the correct play is to trade down and do it often. The more lottery tickets you have, the better. Two 50% shots are better than one.
Joegrane
Trading down makes sense when you are rebuilding a team; however, when you are trying to win now, trading up to get your guy who can contribute this year might be reasonable.

However, it will probably cost you somewhat in the long term. Freddie Mitchel comes to mind as an example. If I recall correctly Andy R missed out on the slot WR he wanted in free agency. So he was desperate to fill the position in the draft. He reached for Freddie because he was thought to be more NFL-ready than some more talented WRs.

If you are in a small market and a perennial bottom third team--Cle, Jax--it makes sense to trade down almost every year. Those teams loose FAs and need to replenish talent. Even if you don't get true value for the drop in the first round, you are still going to get another starting-caliber player.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 19 2017, 09:03 PM) *
I wonder about draft board compilation.

There are 256 drafted players. Add another for top UDFA,s and you may have a draftable board of 300 or so players.

Take about 100 or so off because of system mismatches, character issues etc.

That leaves about 200 left. Even if you have twice as many levels on the board than rounds, that gives you 200 for 14 levels, or about 14 prospects per level. With that many for each level, teams should be in a position to trade down often and still be able to get a guy on the same level. I think the correct play is to trade down and do it often. The more lottery tickets you have, the better. Two 50% shots are better than one.
GroundedBird
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 20 2017, 12:08 AM) *
Trading down makes sense when you are rebuilding a team; however, when you are trying to win now, trading up to get your guy who can contribute this year might be reasonable.


I say if the guy the Eagles want (Cook, McCaffrey, Davis, Williams or my personal favorite - Foster) isn't there then maybe they should trade down and pick up CBs or whatever qualities players are available.

Even though they aren't really a rebuilding team. I think that the depth at certain positions of need works to the Eagles advantage.

Zero
The more I read and hear about him, the more I hope they draft McCaffery. I realize we need need a DE, CB and DT, but this kid sounds like he can be three players: RB, WR and RS.

He's 20 years old. He's incredibly talented, hard working, loves the game and is a solid citizen ... sounds like Wentz. People say he can cut on a dime, has an incredible burst, runs sub 4.5, runs routes and catches like an accomplished WR and runs between the tackles. Apparently the only draw back is that he's not a workhorse RB which wouldn't matter if Pederson uses a committee.

When he's in the backfield the D won't know if he'll run, block, motion to the slot or outside. This sounds like a special player that doesn't come around very often. Sounds like a player who can make a difference touching the ball 20 - 25 times a game. Sounds like a guy we could be watching rip defenses for 10 years.
D Rock
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 21 2017, 09:12 PM) *
The more I read and hear about him, the more I hope they draft McCaffery. I realize we need need a DE, CB and DT, but this kid sounds like he can be three players: RB, WR and RS.

He's 20 years old. He's incredibly talented, hard working, loves the game and is a solid citizen ... sounds like Wentz. People say he can cut on a dime, has an incredible burst, runs sub 4.5, runs routes and catches like an accomplished WR and runs between the tackles. Apparently the only draw back is that he's not a workhorse RB which wouldn't matter if Pederson uses a committee.

When he's in the backfield the D won't know if he'll run, block, motion to the slot or outside. This sounds like a special player that doesn't come around very often. Sounds like a player who can make a difference touching the ball 20 - 25 times a game. Sounds like a guy we could be watching rip defenses for 10 years.

I've read some scouting reports that list his "nfl comparison" as Brian Westbrook.
Zero
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 21 2017, 06:02 PM) *
I've read some scouting reports that list his "nfl comparison" as Brian Westbrook.

Ike Reese was saying he's faster the BWest.
GroundedBird
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 21 2017, 05:12 PM) *
The more I read and hear about him, the more I hope they draft McCaffery. I realize we need need a DE, CB and DT, but this kid sounds like he can be three players: RB, WR and RS.

He's 20 years old. He's incredibly talented, hard working, loves the game and is a solid citizen ... sounds like Wentz. People say he can cut on a dime, has an incredible burst, runs sub 4.5, runs routes and catches like an accomplished WR and runs between the tackles. Apparently the only draw back is that he's not a workhorse RB which wouldn't matter if Pederson uses a committee.

When he's in the backfield the D won't know if he'll run, block, motion to the slot or outside. This sounds like a special player that doesn't come around very often. Sounds like a player who can make a difference touching the ball 20 - 25 times a game. Sounds like a guy we could be watching rip defenses for 10 years.


Where is he slotted? is he a reach at 14; do they trade down?
Zero
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ Mar 21 2017, 08:01 PM) *
Where is he slotted? is he a reach at 14; do they trade down?
Who knows? Mocks first had him going in the second but now I see him going anywhere from the mid first to the late first. I just hope he's there at 14.
Pila
Ruining backs are a dime a dozen. Corners and defensive ends are rarer commodities. To maximize biggest impact, you have to try and get prime talent at the rarer positions. The fact that those particulars correspond with the team's biggest weaknesses speaks directly with that being true.

P.s. that linebacker looks rediculous. I'd make an exception for him.
Zero
I don't know what to say about this
Pila
Where was mom with the comb and a wet hand to pat that boofa down?
The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 21 2017, 08:59 PM) *
I don't know what to say about this


I imagine dozens of former bullies working shit jobs who probably regret it now.
GroundedBird
QUOTE (Pila @ Mar 21 2017, 08:46 PM) *
Ruining backs are a dime a dozen. Corners and defensive ends are rarer commodities. To maximize biggest impact, you have to try and get prime talent at the rarer positions. The fact that those particulars correspond with the team's biggest weaknesses speaks directly with that being true.

P.s. that linebacker looks rediculous. I'd make an exception for him.


... and he brings a contagious attitude (attack!)
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 19 2017, 08:34 PM) *
According to ourlads draft chart, moving down from 14 to 18 would get you a mid-late 3rd rounder.

Moving down to 23 would get you a mid-late 2nd rounder.

Tra. White is interesting since he is also supposedly a good punt returner.

Moving down to 18 seems attractive. The resulting third rounder plus the Eagles' high 4th rounder could get them a low 2nd rounder.

I like these trade down options, unless a guy from an upper tier falls (example DE Barnett). If it falls right, I would definitely go down to 23 and get the mid 2nd.
nephillymike
I'd love to see DE Barnett drop.

Dude's a stud from TEN who broke Reggie's sack record.


He's my man crush in this draft, but nobody has him getting to us at 14 sad.gif
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