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Zero
Some reports have the Eagles over the cap and some have them under. North or south, it's close to the equator.

Spotrac has the Eagles 2017 number at $-7,475,024 and 2018 at $1,286,634. Overthecap has them at $3,065,160 and $7,260,799. I don't care about winning the cap SB like we did in the Banner years, but they need money to sign rookies at the least and it would be nice to have veteran CB and either Bennie or a reasonable alternative. In-season contingency money would be nice to have too.

It seems there are three alternatives: trades, cuts and restructures. Cuts are pretty plain, it's buh bye, gain some cap and probably some future dead money. Restructures would seem to be restricted to higher salary players who you know you want on the team in the future ... not old. Trades equate to value/need for other teams and would be far better to happen before but may have to wait until after the draft.

Roseman says he's not cutting Kelce and apparently they're not cutting Kendricks. I don't see a lot of cash from anyone else in terms of cuts. Definitely not suggesting, but the view of potential cuts:
Jason Peters $9,700,000
Jason Kelce $3,800,000
Ryan Mathews $4,000,000
Mychal Kendricks $1,800,000
Brent Celek $1,000,000
Darren Sproles $4,000,000
Allen Barbre $2,100,000
Ron Brooks $1,600,000
Marcus Smith $1,483,515
Potential trades:
Jason Peters $9,700,000
Chase Daniel $6,000,000
Jason Kelce $3,800,000
Brent Celek $3,000,000
Darren Sproles $4,000,000
Nelson Agholor $17,511 laugh.gif
Marcus Smith $1,483,515
Jordan Matthews $1,094,901
Allen Barbre $2,100,000
Restructure:
Lane Johnson $9,843,750
Chase Daniel $8,000,000
Brandon Graham $7,500,000
All numbers from OTC.

Then they've got next year to consider. Can someone guide me through how they get from cap hell into at least a position where they can do business.
Reality Fan
You and me both
Zero
It gets worse in 2018. Here's the top 10 players showing base salary and cap hit:
Fletcher Cox $11,500,000 $17,900,000
Lane Johnson $10,000,000 $12,250,000
Jason Peters $10,000,000 $11,250,000
Vinny Curry $9,000,000 $11,000,000
Brandon Brooks $8,500,000 $10,700,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,500,000 $10,000,000
Zach Ertz $8,000,000 $9,600,000
Chase Daniel $7,000,000 $8,000,000
Mychal Kendrick $5,850,000 $7,600,000
Rodney McLeod $6,000,000 $7,600,000
Then 2019 begins to ease up some:
Fletcher Cox $15,600,000 $22,000,000
Lane Johnson $10,600,000 $12,850,000
Vinny Curry $9,250,000 $11,250,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,000,000 $9,750,000
Brandon Brooks $7,500,000 $9,700,000
Zach Ertz $7,500,000 $9,100,000
Rodney McLeod $7,500,000 $9,100,000
Mychal Kendrick $6,850,000 $8,600,000
Carson Wentz $4,087,683 $8,487,926
Jason Kelce $6,500,000 $6,500,000
According to OTC, the Eagles are at the bottom of the cap list through 2020. I realize those are projections that will change, maybe dramatically. The point isn't as much about the cap space as it is about the talent evaluation. Douglas needs to be good enough to make the cap as irrelevant as possible or they'll have to use a chain saw to clean things up.
Joegrane
Ryan Matthews will eventually be cut providing $4mil in cap space. I expect Kelce to be cut or traded.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 11 2017, 09:01 AM) *
Some reports have the Eagles over the cap and some have them under. North or south, it's close to the equator.

Spotrac has the Eagles 2017 number at $-7,475,024 and 2018 at $1,286,634. Overthecap has them at $3,065,160 and $7,260,799. I don't care about winning the cap SB like we did in the Banner years, but they need money to sign rookies at the least and it would be nice to have veteran CB and either Bennie or a reasonable alternative. In-season contingency money would be nice to have too.

It seems there are three alternatives: trades, cuts and restructures. Cuts are pretty plain, it's buh bye, gain some cap and probably some future dead money. Restructures would seem to be restricted to higher salary players who you know you want on the team in the future ... not old. Trades equate to value/need for other teams and would be far better to happen before but may have to wait until after the draft.

Roseman says he's not cutting Kelce and apparently they're not cutting Kendricks. I don't see a lot of cash from anyone else in terms of cuts. Definitely not suggesting, but the view of potential cuts:
Jason Peters $9,700,000
Jason Kelce $3,800,000
Ryan Mathews $4,000,000
Mychal Kendricks $1,800,000
Brent Celek $1,000,000
Darren Sproles $4,000,000
Allen Barbre $2,100,000
Ron Brooks $1,600,000
Marcus Smith $1,483,515
Potential trades:
Jason Peters $9,700,000
Chase Daniel $6,000,000
Jason Kelce $3,800,000
Brent Celek $3,000,000
Darren Sproles $4,000,000
Nelson Agholor $17,511 laugh.gif
Marcus Smith $1,483,515
Jordan Matthews $1,094,901
Allen Barbre $2,100,000
Restructure:
Lane Johnson $9,843,750
Chase Daniel $8,000,000
Brandon Graham $7,500,000
All numbers from OTC.

Then they've got next year to consider. Can someone guide me through how they get from cap hell into at least a position where they can do business.

nephillymike
On SPOTRAC, ignore the "cap room with all" option.

They list 71 players under contract and that figure includes all 71 Where 19 won't be on the roster.

Focus on the "top 51" column as during the offseason only the top 51 count towards the cap.

It shows we are a whopping 730K UNDER the cap.
jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif

If they missed the deadline to cut Kendricks, I would be greatly disappointed.

That's an easy $5M of cap.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 03:06 PM) *
On SPOTRAC, ignore the "cap room with all" option.

They list 71 players under contract and that figure includes all 71 Where 19 won't be on the roster.

Focus on the "top 51" column as during the offseason only the top 51 count towards the cap.

It shows we are a whopping 730K UNDER the cap.
jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif

If they missed the deadline to cut Kendricks, I would be greatly disappointed.

That's an easy $5M of cap.


and they can really help out their defense with that kind of money....oh wait...lol

It is clear that Howie is going all in to show that he did the right thing with his QB pick and is leaving the defense to Schwartz who must be livid. I can't really blame them for giving Bradford nothing because at least they tried with Agholar...he was a justifiable pick and just failed. Howie was not going to gamble a second time.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 03:11 PM) *
and they can really help out their defense with that kind of money....oh wait...lol

It is clear that Howie is going all in to show that he did the right thing with his QB pick and is leaving the defense to Schwartz who must be livid. I can't really blame them for giving Bradford nothing because at least they tried with Agholar...he was a justifiable pick and just failed. Howie was not going to gamble a second time.

I thought this whole Wentzadelphia starts with Lurie.
Joegrane
A different take on this is that they know not to trust themselves to pick players on offense. So they get FAs for the O and let Schwartz draft for the D.

Schwartz might not be livid. He might like the opportunity to pick and groom his guys for his system.

It might work out fine for the long term. Unfortunately the rookie CBs will likely get picked on mercilessly until they make opposing QBs pay. CW was blitzed heavily in the early games but he made them pay. We'll see how it plays out. At the moment I can't say I think the pass rush will be improved to help out the CBs. Hopefully the much improved O can outscore most teams and can dominate the time of possession.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 03:11 PM) *
and they can really help out their defense with that kind of money....oh wait...lol

It is clear that Howie is going all in to show that he did the right thing with his QB pick and is leaving the defense to Schwartz who must be livid. I can't really blame them for giving Bradford nothing because at least they tried with Agholar...he was a justifiable pick and just failed. Howie was not going to gamble a second time.

Eyrie
The draft has to be heavy on defensive players.

Two CBs and a DE are must haves, and a DT if we can't get Logan back. Plus depth at S.
Joegrane
If you look at the dead money, it gets better next year, I think Kendrick, Daniel, Peters, Celek will stand out. Sproles says he plans to retire.

They spent a pile of $ to stabilize the team after the C Kelly debacle. Cap hell is what you get. They have to draft well to get out of it. Hopefully they'll hit on a couple of starting outside CBs and a #1 RB.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 11 2017, 01:23 PM) *
It gets worse in 2018. Here's the top 10 players showing base salary and cap hit:
Fletcher Cox $11,500,000 $17,900,000
Lane Johnson $10,000,000 $12,250,000
Jason Peters $10,000,000 $11,250,000
Vinny Curry $9,000,000 $11,000,000
Brandon Brooks $8,500,000 $10,700,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,500,000 $10,000,000
Zach Ertz $8,000,000 $9,600,000
Chase Daniel $7,000,000 $8,000,000
Mychal Kendrick $5,850,000 $7,600,000
Rodney McLeod $6,000,000 $7,600,000
Then 2019 begins to ease up some:
Fletcher Cox $15,600,000 $22,000,000
Lane Johnson $10,600,000 $12,850,000
Vinny Curry $9,250,000 $11,250,000
Malcolm Jenkins $8,000,000 $9,750,000
Brandon Brooks $7,500,000 $9,700,000
Zach Ertz $7,500,000 $9,100,000
Rodney McLeod $7,500,000 $9,100,000
Mychal Kendrick $6,850,000 $8,600,000
Carson Wentz $4,087,683 $8,487,926
Jason Kelce $6,500,000 $6,500,000
According to OTC, the Eagles are at the bottom of the cap list through 2020. I realize those are projections that will change, maybe dramatically. The point isn't as much about the cap space as it is about the talent evaluation. Douglas needs to be good enough to make the cap as irrelevant as possible or they'll have to use a chain saw to clean things up.

nephillymike
At first glance I read the title as you need serious help.

I thought, nothing like stating the obvious!
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 12 2017, 11:19 AM) *
At first glance I read the title as you need serious help.

I thought, nothing like stating the obvious!

Sometimes people need to be reminded. cool.gif
nephillymike
Z,

It is not you, it is the sites that summarize the cap that are the issue. You can cancel that psychoanalysis appointment!!

So, I spent about an hour on this that I'll never get back!

I figured it would be easy, compare the two sites and it should be a common sense reconciliation.

Here are the things I found by comparing Over The Cap and Spotrac:

Cap Space - OTC has 3.065M avail vs only 0.73M for Spotrac, a difference of 2.335M.

However, even though OTC shows more available, their detail of the top 51 shows 2.239 cap used for the top 51 than Spotrac does!! How the heck can that be?

It looks like the detail in the OTC site is more accurate and I think we should use that.

There were 12 differences:

OTC had the details of the Wiz contract and a cap hit of 1.358M

They had CB Gratz in their top 51 whereas Spotrac forgot about him - need to include his 0.775M

Since SR didn't have Wiz or Gratz, they had two others in their top 51, Denham and Grymes. Remove 0.54M each for those two from SR.

Peters had a salary escalator in salary of 0.5M because of making the PB. OTC had the extra 0.5M, SR did not.

OTC also had higher base salaries for other players that probably are because of escalators, we'll go with the increases in the following players b/c of presumed escalators:

Bradham = 0.5M
Barbre = 0.3M
Jones = 0.125M
Sturgis = 0.150M
Tobin = 0.05M
Total = 1.125M

Looks like OTC made a mistake on the T. Smith contract. Even though the detail they post computes to 5.000M, they list it as 4.875M. Use the 5.0M which matches Spotrac.

There is a 0.031M difference in Warmack's deal, SR is more, I'll go with that.

So if I start with Spotrac's lower cap available number of 0.730M and adjust for that above:

Less Wiz and Gratz contracts not listed = (2.133M)
Add back Grymes and Denham that were replaced in top 51 by Wiz and Gratz = +1.080M
Less escalators for Peters, Bradham, Barbre, Jones, Sturgis and Tobin = (1.625M)
Use SR's numbers for Smith and Warmack

So the adjusted best guess at available cap using SR's starting number with the adjustments is ($1.948M)

That's not good.

However, OTC's available cap was more, even with the higher cap #'s they had for those players. Why?

Because they list $179.508M as the starting cap coming into the year whereas SR lists only $174.934M!!

How the hell can they be different by $4.574M?

This number should simply be, the salary cap for the year + the unused cap for the previous year that carries over.

OTC does not show how they calculate that number whereas SR does. SR shows a league cap of 167M and 7.934M of rollover from last year. Maybe the OTC # is more because of the adjustments to cap. If there were things counted as LTBE bonuses in last year's Eagles cap that were not earned, the Eagles would get a credit getting that cap space back. That could be 4.5M. SR has a line for adjustments but lists is as 0.

So if SR had the right starting amount, our available cap is minus 1.948M!! If OTC is correct, then our cap space is +3.065M. That's about a $5M difference.

Since OTC was more accurate on the contract info, here's hoping they are more accurate on the starting available cap too, so I'll put my blinders on and go with OTC's +3.065M.

Easy and common sense it is not. Pray that OTC is right. $5M is a lot of money!
Zero
And OTC is saying we need $6,269,929 to sign rookies. If their cap # of $3,065,160 is accurate, Zmath tells me they're still $3,204,769 short. Mathews will solve that all by himself, but what about a vet CB or two?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 12 2017, 08:09 PM) *
And OTC is saying we need $6,269,929 to sign rookies. If their cap # of $3,065,160 is accurate, Zmath tells me they're still $3,204,769 short. Mathews will solve that all by himself, but what about a vet CB or two?



The money to sign the rookies is the gross amount. It doesn't take into consideration the money saved by cutting 8 players currently included in the 51 players in the cap. Realistically, you can deduct 540K x 8 = 4.3M from that number. And they also only included 7 draft picks in that number not the eight we have. Use my numbers above as it shows the right amount.

The rookie pool is the least of our worries.
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