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Birdwatcher
But Alshon wants to play with Wentz...not Sleeves

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/3/...nfl-trade-bears
Joegrane
Maybe, or maybe that is a sports writer trying to come up with a story.

Maybe the Vikes offered less $ for this year but the total $ for two years was obviously more.

An offense is more than just a QB. The Vikes O Line was a huge mess last year, whereas the Eagles look to have a strong O Line.

This will be a contract year for him. Maybe he likes the opportunity in Philly better to build a resume for a bigger, long term contract.

Of course CW has a reputation for liking to chuck it deep with Farve as an inspiration. Bradford has a rep for preferring to dump is short and stay in one piece.

CW has the legs to extend a play occasionally, unlike SamB. That will produce some some big play opportunities for the many weapons.

If I understand correctly Jeffery signed after T Smith so he knew what weapons would be around him. With Ertz, Smith, Sproles and a solid J Matthews, the Eagles are loaded.

QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Mar 9 2017, 07:38 PM) *
But Alshon wants to play with Wentz...not Sleeves

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/3/...nfl-trade-bears
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 9 2017, 08:57 PM) *
... the Eagles are loaded.

They need another RB and the offense is set except they'll probably draft a WR. But the priority is going to be the defense now. Obviously CB, then CB, CB, DE, DT, LB and probably a CB. That's 9 picks so Roseman/Douglas will have to create some magic and then uncover some surprise undrafted FAs. Let's hope Douglas is the real deal.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 9 2017, 08:57 PM) *
Maybe, or maybe that is a sports writer trying to come up with a story.

Maybe the Vikes offered less $ for this year but the total $ for two years was obviously more.

An offense is more than just a QB. The Vikes O Line was a huge mess last year, whereas the Eagles look to have a strong O Line.

This will be a contract year for him. Maybe he likes the opportunity in Philly better to build a resume for a bigger, long term contract.

Of course CW has a reputation for liking to chuck it deep with Farve as an inspiration. Bradford has a rep for preferring to dump is short and stay in one piece.

CW has the legs to extend a play occasionally, unlike SamB. That will produce some some big play opportunities for the many weapons.

If I understand correctly Jeffery signed after T Smith so he knew what weapons would be around him. With Ertz, Smith, Sproles and a solid J Matthews, the Eagles are loaded.



You nailed it...first, the author is the guy who left BGN to go to another "blog" that lasted another few months.....second, Jeffries turned it down because it was multiple years at a much lesser yearly average than he wanted...in Philly he gets 14 million on a one year deal and gets to prove he deserves more...the Vikes contract was appealing only in that it was multiple years. Even the Vikes beat writers don't have the dollar value of the Vikes offer.
nephillymike
Let's wait to see what the offer was.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 9 2017, 09:27 PM) *
Let's wait to see what the offer was.



exactly...that will tell you what his thinking is....my guess is that he said I will take the 14 million and have a great year and get a multi year deal for 10+ per
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 9 2017, 09:30 PM) *
exactly...that will tell you what his thinking is....my guess is that he said I will take the 14 million and have a great year and get a multi year deal for 10+ per

Yes, but this could be Bradford's last year with the Vikes and Bridgewater remains a question. As Roseman admitted, it's all about the money but sometimes if it's close stability and the perceived opportunity to win can make a difference. It seems players have chosen less $ in NE to play on a perennial winner. The Eagles aren't there, but they can aspire to be.

QUOTE
Think about how important that Sam Bradford trade was. Not only did the Eagles get a first-round pick and allow their rookie QB to get a year of experience under his belt, but it also allowed Wentz to show prospective free agents what he could do.
__ <----
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 9 2017, 09:30 PM) *
exactly...that will tell you what his thinking is....my guess is that he said I will take the 14 million and have a great year and get a multi year deal for 10+ per


Yes, but even if that is the case, why pick Philadelphia unless you see a chance to put up big numbers? The Wentz factor is real, the top WR FA out there came to us at the last minute wanting to sign here. Has that happened since TO? The answer is NO.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Mar 10 2017, 11:45 AM) *
Yes, but even if that is the case, why pick Philadelphia unless you see a chance to put up big numbers? The Wentz factor is real, the top WR FA out there came to us at the last minute wanting to sign here. Has that happened since TO? The answer is NO.

I can give you 14 million reasons. And stop with the revisions already. The Eagles were in it from the start. They feared more money by quite a bit and Jeffries jumped on it. And diva WRs think they will do well anywhere. But f t helps to have some fantasy that the whole league is clam print to play here enjoy. If Jeffrey's really wanted to sign somewhere to put up by numbers he would have gone t Washington "at the last minute".
Zero
Jeffrey apparently did take less money to come here. Smith said that Wentz was some of the reason he signed with the Eagles and Warmack said he took less to be with Stoutland. This is all a very good sign. Players go to NE because they win. They go to NY for the money. They go to GB because of the history. They go some places because of the weather. Philadelphia doesn't have any of that, but players are coming here over other places. It's a small thing, but a good thing.
Joegrane
Good point but I'm not so sure it is such a "small thing."

GMs have a decent feel for a player's value. They have a feel for how much $ the guy is going to get. Can you provide the intangibles to break a virtual tie in $.

The Eagles seemed to to that often during the Reid-McNabb era. Hopefully they are again becoming a desirable landing spot for FAs.

If indeed this is true, the fate of the Eagles has swung dramatically in just a couple of years.

Recall the tenuous situation at the end of the C Kelly era. I feared the Eagles could dissolve into a bottom-third team in the NFL like they did after Coach Ryan was axed years ago. Many Pro Bowl players went elsewhere.

Instead Howie and especially J Lurie poured big $$$ into extending key players. Generally those players have not earned their $ but at least it provided a stable foundation for moving forward.

Of course Howie's magic and luck related to the acquisition of Wentz and the trade of Bradford will be legendary.

How do the folks in the Ram's front office feel about all of this?! Which way is their franchise trending?

Maybe B Colangelo can rub elbows with Howie prior to the NBA ping pong ball event. Maybe the Sixers can screw the Lakers somewhat like Howie did to the Rams. After the A Bynum debacle, the Lakers deserve it.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 10 2017, 08:35 PM) *
Jeffrey apparently did take less money to come here. Smith said that Wentz was some of the reason he signed with the Eagles and Warmack said he took less to be with Stoutland. This is all a very good sign. Players go to NE because they win. They go to NY for the money. They go to GB because of the history. They go some places because of the weather. Philadelphia doesn't have any of that, but players are coming here over other places. It's a small thing, but a good thing.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 10 2017, 08:35 PM) *
Jeffrey apparently did take less money to come here. Smith said that Wentz was some of the reason he signed with the Eagles and Warmack said he took less to be with Stoutland. This is all a very good sign. Players go to NE because they win. They go to NY for the money. They go to GB because of the history. They go some places because of the weather. Philadelphia doesn't have any of that, but players are coming here over other places. It's a small thing, but a good thing.


How did he take less money...he got 14 million for year one.....the only year....the vikes did not offer him 14+...they offered him more years but much lower yearly and we still don't know the guaranteed money.....Jeffries was looking for money and he basically signed the franchise tender, he just did it with the Eagles because he did not get the money he was looking for.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 12:15 AM) *
How did he take less money...he got 14 million for year one.....the only year....the vikes did not offer him 14+...they offered him more years but much lower yearly and we still don't know the guaranteed money.....Jeffries was looking for money and he basically signed the franchise tender, he just did it with the Eagles because he did not get the money he was looking for.


The fact that details show that he only got 9.5M guaranteed from us increases the chances of him getting offered more by the Vikes.

Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 12:23 AM) *
The fact that details show that he only got 9.5M guaranteed from us increases the chances of him getting offered more by the Vikes.

That's my thinking. The top WR FA takes a contract where 1/3 is incentives and bonuses. I didn't see the Vikes offer, but this sounds like a prove it contract over a commitment contract.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 12:23 AM) *
The fact that details show that he only got 9.5M guaranteed from us increases the chances of him getting offered more by the Vikes.


I love this line of thinking except that the incentives are in the "likely to be earned" category so they will count against the cap and only protect the Eagles in case he gets suspended...again. Beyond that you speak as if you know the details of the Vikes offer and whether they too protected themselves from said possibility of future suspensions in their offer. You know no details of what the Vikes offered yet speak as if it was some mega deal that he declined.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 11 2017, 05:58 AM) *
That's my thinking. The top WR FA takes a contract where 1/3 is incentives and bonuses. I didn't see the Vikes offer, but this sounds like a prove it contract over a commitment contract.



Now this I completely agree with.....it sounds like this was the most money he could find in FA and it gave him the best chance to earn the chance to get a long term big money contract next year from any team. The Eagles throw the ball a lot. They will have a better line than the Vikes and Wentz is a good QB. Those things make it attractive for a "prove it" year. The Vikes , and I am making an educated guess here, likely offered him several years but only guaranteed 8-9 per year for 2 years. The Eagles, who reached out to his agent at the start of FA tampering, basically signed him to the franchise tender.(the 14 million is only slighly less than what the Bears would have paid if they franchised him)
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 12:25 PM) *
Now this I completely agree with.....it sounds like this was the most money he could find in FA and it gave him the best chance to earn the chance to get a long term big money contract next year from any team. The Eagles throw the ball a lot. They will have a better line than the Vikes and Wentz is a good QB. Those things make it attractive for a "prove it" year. The Vikes , and I am making an educated guess here, likely offered him several years but only guaranteed 8-9 per year for 2 years. The Eagles, who reached out to his agent at the start of FA tampering, basically signed him to the franchise tender.(the 14 million is only slighly less than what the Bears would have paid if they franchised him)

And the nice thing that Roseman did with that "franchise tender" is to protect themselves from PEDs and injuries. Very smart.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 11 2017, 12:30 PM) *
And the nice thing that Roseman did with that "franchise tender" is to protect themselves from PEDs and injuries. Very smart.



Yes...that part I agree with...it just ate up alot of cap space leaving the defense vulnerable.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 12:33 PM) *
Yes...that part I agree with...it just ate up alot of cap space leaving the defense vulnerable.

I'd say more vulnerable and that the focus has been on Wentz. They've been saying that all along and that's what they did. I'd love for them to sign a decent FA CB (Kayvon Webster?) who can compete and mentor rookies but I have no idea where the money would come from. Let's hope Douglas is good because they'll need the draft.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 12:20 PM) *
I love this line of thinking except that the incentives are in the "likely to be earned" category so they will count against the cap and only protect the Eagles in case he gets suspended...again. Beyond that you speak as if you know the details of the Vikes offer and whether they too protected themselves from said possibility of future suspensions in their offer. You know no details of what the Vikes offered yet speak as if it was some mega deal that he declined.



At this point, I know as much as you about the details about the offer which is not very much.

All are speculating.

But I think even you would agree that is is easier for the Vikes offer to beat the Eagles offer if the Eagles has 9.5 guaranteed vs 14.0 guaranteed. Would you agree that to be the case, that it is easier to beat 9.5 tan it is to beat 14.0?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 01:15 PM) *
At this point, I know as much as you about the details about the offer which is not very much.

All are speculating.

But I think even you would agree that is is easier for the Vikes offer to beat the Eagles offer if the Eagles has 9.5 guaranteed vs 14.0 guaranteed. Would you agree that to be the case, that it is easier to beat 9.5 tan it is to beat 14.0?



I look at the entirety....if the incentives are things like games played or catches and they are reasonable then the money is what the player chases. I also look at the player. Considering he has several checkers in his past I do not look at him as a guy who is only interested in winning, he falls squarely in the "I want the money" category like Martellius Bennett and 98% of NFL players. The reports were that the Vikes offered "More security" which indicates that they guaranteed a 2nd year but it certainly is well within reason that the money per year was significantly less with LTBE incentives included.

I understand if some want to think that the glorious opportunity to play with Wnetz is the idea they want to use as the reason he signed here was but I think is that was the case there are other teams he could have gone to to make happen. The pats were looking for a WR for one.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 01:27 PM) *
I look at the entirety....if the incentives are things like games played or catches and they are reasonable then the money is what the player chases. I also look at the player. Considering he has several checkers in his past I do not look at him as a guy who is only interested in winning, he falls squarely in the "I want the money" category like Martellius Bennett and 98% of NFL players. The reports were that the Vikes offered "More security" which indicates that they guaranteed a 2nd year but it certainly is well within reason that the money per year was significantly less with LTBE incentives included.

I understand if some want to think that the glorious opportunity to play with Wnetz is the idea they want to use as the reason he signed here was but I think is that was the case there are other teams he could have gone to to make happen. The pats were looking for a WR for one.


So let's cut to the chase.

What % part, out of a 100%, do you think the Wentz factor was in Jefferys decision to sign here was vs. going to the Vikings?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 03:10 PM) *
So let's cut to the chase.

What % part, out of a 100%, do you think the Wentz factor was in Jefferys decision to sign here was vs. going to the Vikings?


I don't think it meant a damn thing to him.....nothing. I think the Vikes offered him a lower per year and less incentive laden contract that had 2 years guaranteed and he and his agent looked at more money in year one and, as reported, decided to "gamble" on more money in year one to get more money and years on his next contract. He is protected that way in that he will likely get his 14 million this year and get either franchised next year ( a hefty bump on the 14) or have the leverage to get a healthy multi year contract next year. If not he would have gone to the Vikes where Diggs missed significant time, both in games missed and time missed in games he played due to injury and still had over 900 yards. Add to it that the Vikes will have a better D and are rebuilding their line and Bradford has a better completion %. It is strictly about money.

By the way...your favorite stat...air yards....Wentz 3.21 and Sammy 3.34.....lol...one had a demolished O line...and the other is Wentz..lol
Zero
I'm not buying it RF. Both Smith and AJ are singing the same tune and both look and sound completely natural and believable doing it. The money is absolutely a major factor, always was, always will be but if AJ has another injury year he may not reach those bonuses and end up weakening his negotiation position. If he has a career ending injury he's screwed because he lost out on what was likely a larger guarantee from the Vikes. If he was all about the money he also could have waited longer. He signed pretty quickly.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 03:18 PM) *
I don't think it meant a damn thing to him.....nothing. I think the Vikes offered him a lower per year and less incentive laden contract that had 2 years guaranteed and he and his agent looked at more money in year one and, as reported, decided to "gamble" on more money in year one to get more money and years on his next contract. He is protected that way in that he will likely get his 14 million this year and get either franchised next year ( a hefty bump on the 14) or have the leverage to get a healthy multi year contract next year. If not he would have gone to the Vikes where Diggs missed significant time, both in games missed and time missed in games he played due to injury and still had over 900 yards. Add to it that the Vikes will have a better D and are rebuilding their line and Bradford has a better completion %. It is strictly about money.

By the way...your favorite stat...air yards....Wentz 3.21 and Sammy 3.34.....lol...one had a demolished O line...and the other is Wentz..lol


Yep Bradford had a better year than the Kid, no doubt.

And not much talked about is how much the kid needs to improve.

But, if you want me to hop on the RF driven Sleeves way back band wagon machine and incur $12M more cap for Sam vs the Kid this year and give back that 1st round pick, well I ain't doing it! I got the Wentz wagon fueled up with two new co-pilots and I'm ready to roll ! If you would like to pilot the way back machine, fine I guess, you'll have a light load, but if not, just accept the free wings and beers and the looks at the easy on the eyes Bradford hating bar patron he got you and hop on the Wentz wagon and enjoy the ride!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 03:43 PM) *
Yep Bradford had a better year than the Kid, no doubt.

And not much talked about is how much the kid needs to improve.

But, if you want me to hop on the RF driven Sleeves way back band wagon machine and incur $12M more cap for Sam vs the Kid this year and give back that 1st round pick, well I ain't doing it! I got the Wentz wagon fueled up with two new co-pilots and I'm ready to roll ! If you would like to pilot the way back machine, fine I guess, you'll have a light load, but if not, just accept the free wings and beers and the looks at the easy on the eyes Bradford hating bar patron he got you and hop on the Wentz wagon and enjoy the ride!


I am not making any bid for anyone to get a Sammy bandwagon...I am merely pointing out how stupid it sounds for people to trot out "he came here to play with Wentz" silliness. He followed the money. I am fine with Wentz but if you look at the 2 teams and think that Wentz made a damn bit of difference I think it is ridiculous. 5 years from now I think Wentz will be one of the top QBs (hope actually, fingers crossed). The Vikes have a pretty bright future right now rebuilding their o line and a good defense. Wentz is not so significantly better than anyone that guys are flocking to play with him and forsaking millions to do so. How some one actually believes that is mindboggling.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2017, 03:58 PM) *
I am not making any bid for anyone to get a Sammy bandwagon...I am merely pointing out how stupid it sounds for people to trot out "he came here to play with Wentz" silliness. He followed the money. I am fine with Wentz but if you look at the 2 teams and think that Wentz made a damn bit of difference I think it is ridiculous. 5 years from now I think Wentz will be one of the top QBs (hope actually, fingers crossed). The Vikes have a pretty bright future right now rebuilding their o line and a good defense. Wentz is not so significantly better than anyone that guys are flocking to play with him and forsaking millions to do so. How some one actually believes that is mindboggling.

Don't be offended, but I think the comparison with Bradford was not a difficult one to win.

I do think it played a part. Not major, but maybe a 20% slice. Maybe details of their offer will come out and we'll see. I would think they will come out, eventually.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2017, 04:02 PM) *
Don't be offended, but I think the comparison with Bradford was not a difficult one to win.

I do think it played a part. Not major, but maybe a 20% slice. Maybe details of their offer will come out and we'll see. I would think they will come out, eventually.



I am not offended at all. My defense of Bradford was strictly against those ignoring key parts of the situation, I could not care less about him. I was not happy with what they gave up to get him and find it humorous when people prop up his replacement with arguments like you have to give him great WRs to be successful as if that isn't the same for any QB. Now I could care less about Bradford but that doesn't mean I look at Wentz like he is a god players want to play with. He hasn't proven a thing. He looks like he could be very good but he has lots of issues to correct.

I understand it makes some feel warm and fuzzy but we will agree to disagree about the absurdity of the idea that Jeffries forwent millions to play here...hopefully the deal/offer is made public but mu guess is that it doesn't because it never really was a firm offer but something trotted out to up the Eagles number. If it was made in earnest the details would have likely leaked already.
JeeQ
Whenever you're ready RF, I will gladly let you ride on the Wentz train... it's currently Super Bowl bound
Reality Fan
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Mar 12 2017, 02:07 AM) *
Whenever you're ready RF, I will gladly let you ride on the Wentz train... it's currently Super Bowl bound


I hope it is....I like the guy but not sold on him being a stud.......I pray he is a difference maker and we will soon see with new WRs. We will need to score a lot of points
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