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El Cubano
Is a Super Bowl champion...
SAM I Am
QUOTE (El Cubano @ Feb 5 2017, 10:34 PM) *
Is a Super Bowl champion...

And deservedly so rolleyes.gif
Joegrane
He was a bum in the preseason who got beaten out by a 7th rounder and a UDFA. Good Riddance. Thanks for the 4th or 3rd round pick.

If he ever decides to be a Safety, I bet he'll play at a near Pro Bowl level.

If he had his head on straight he would have been a really nice contributor here.

QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Feb 5 2017, 10:38 PM) *
And deservedly so rolleyes.gif

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 8 2017, 03:24 PM) *
He was a bum in the preseason who got beaten out by a 7th rounder and a UDFA. Good Riddance. Thanks for the 4th or 3rd round pick.

If he ever decides to be a Safety, I bet he'll play at a near Pro Bowl level.

If he had his head on straight he would have been a really nice contributor here.


and yet he had his head on straight in New England?

hard to argue that it was a terrible personnel decision here....or terrible coaching
Joegrane
Those things could be true, or it could be somewhat like Coach Ryan and Chris Carter.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buddy-r...his-life-062816

He is a young guy with much growing to do, including between his ears.

The combo of the cut plus Belicheat's reputation, plus the presence of veteran CBs with rings might have gotten through to him.

As I suggested previously, I had mixed feelings when he was cut. However, if he was not responding professionally to coaching, he had to go.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 8 2017, 11:23 PM) *
and yet he had his head on straight in New England?

hard to argue that it was a terrible personnel decision here....or terrible coaching

Pila
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 9 2017, 04:57 AM) *
Those things could be true, or it could be somewhat like Coach Ryan and Chris Carter.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buddy-r...his-life-062816

He is a young guy with much growing to do, including between his ears.

The combo of the cut plus Belicheat's reputation, plus the presence of veteran CBs with rings might have gotten through to him.

As I suggested previously, I had mixed feelings when he was cut. However, if he was not responding professionally to coaching, he had to go.

In which case at a minimum it suggests an alternative approach to players like Eric Rowe would be worth pursuing. And if that's the case, then isn't that a statement that illustrates that's where the problem was to begin with?
Joegrane
Maybe that is true; however I suspect not for a few reasons.

1. His position coach C Undlin was praised by the DBs two years ago. They really seemed to like him. He has been in the NFL for 10+ yrs.

2. Schwartz has also been an NFL coach for a long time, including a HC.

That suggests to me that they know how to handle "difficult" players. No one is perfect and there are situations where personalities just don't work well; but these are not rookie coaches. This is not Chip Kelly coming from college where he could push the players around.

3. Rowe seemed to regress mentally. He looked clueless out there in preseason. His body language related to his attitude looked bad. He looked better as a rookie.

4. The 7th round CB and UDFAs looked like they knew what to do more than Rowe, even though the UDFAs clearly were lacking physical skills and Rowe clearly had some solid NFL physical skills. Unless they were all so well coached in college, the less physically capable guys were taking the coaching and looking more professional than the high rounder with a year of NFL experience.

QUOTE (Pila @ Feb 9 2017, 08:40 PM) *
In which case at a minimum it suggests an alternative approach to players like Eric Rowe would be worth pursuing. And if that's the case, then isn't that a statement that illustrates that's where the problem was to begin with?


QUOTE
(Joegrane @ Feb 9 2017, 04:57 AM) *
Those things could be true, or it could be somewhat like Coach Ryan and Chris Carter.
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/buddy-r...his-life-062816

He is a young guy with much growing to do, including between his ears.

The combo of the cut plus Belicheat's reputation, plus the presence of veteran CBs with rings might have gotten through to him.

As I suggested previously, I had mixed feelings when he was cut. However, if he was not responding professionally to coaching, he had to go.

Pila
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 11 2017, 12:28 AM) *
Maybe that is true; however I suspect not for a few reasons.

1. His position coach C Undlin was praised by the DBs two years ago. They really seemed to like him. He has been in the NFL for 10+ yrs.

2. Schwartz has also been an NFL coach for a long time, including a HC.

That suggests to me that they know how to handle "difficult" players. No one is perfect and there are situations where personalities just don't work well; but these are not rookie coaches. This is not Chip Kelly coming from college where he could push the players around.

3. Rowe seemed to regress mentally. He looked clueless out there in preseason. His body language related to his attitude looked bad. He looked better as a rookie.

4. The 7th round CB and UDFAs looked like they knew what to do more than Rowe, even though the UDFAs clearly were lacking physical skills and Rowe clearly had some solid NFL physical skills. Unless they were all so well coached in college, the less physically capable guys were taking the coaching and looking more professional than the high rounder with a year of NFL experience.


If Eric Rowe went on to become a productive player in a different environment, whereas it was felt he couldn't do that in his point of origin then there's no way this isn't a failure of the coaching staff. This failure is highlighted by the fact that the team struggled at that position throughout most of the season.

It doesn't mean the coaching staff is a failure as a whole, but there's no other way to empirically see this particular as anything other than a lost opportunity, or a particular failure.
Joegrane
Was Chris Carter's professional problems in Philly due to Buddy Ryan and the coaches?

Was his HoF success due to the coaches in Minn?

In retrospect Carter has said very, very nice things about Ryan. You can read for yourself at the link in my previous post.

That's probably an extreme example, but maybe not. We don't really know what was causing Rowe to under-perform in the preseason.

QUOTE (Pila @ Feb 10 2017, 08:17 PM) *
If Eric Rowe went on to become a productive player in a different environment, whereas it was felt he couldn't do that in his point of origin then there's no way this isn't a failure of the coaching staff. This failure is highlighted by the fact that the team struggled at that position throughout most of the season.

It doesn't mean the coaching staff is a failure as a whole, but there's no other way to empirically see this particular as anything other than a lost opportunity, or a particular failure.

nephillymike
Wasn't the common opinion of those media guys watching training camp and the preseason was that the play of Rowe was much better than his spot on the depth chart? Based on his play they seemed surprised.

That's the way I remember it.
Pila
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 11 2017, 03:10 AM) *
Was Chris Carter's professional problems in Philly due to Buddy Ryan and the coaches?

Was his HoF success due to the coaches in Minn?

In retrospect Carter has said very, very nice things about Ryan. You can read for yourself at the link in my previous post.

That's probably an extreme example, but maybe not. We don't really know what was causing Rowe to under-perform in the preseason.

Unless Eric's problem involved similar circumstances, this isn't the sane thing.

What's not speculative is the fact the NE got production out of Eric.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 10 2017, 10:10 PM) *
Was Chris Carter's professional problems in Philly due to Buddy Ryan and the coaches?

Was his HoF success due to the coaches in Minn?

In retrospect Carter has said very, very nice things about Ryan. You can read for yourself at the link in my previous post.

That's probably an extreme example, but maybe not. We don't really know what was causing Rowe to under-perform in the preseason.



Not sure how you can even think to compare the 2......one was a trade of a young guy who was not the pick of the GM and accompanied with a ridiculous excuse...the other was the attempt of a coach to save a guys life and shock him into getting help.

Carter was heading down a horrible path....Rowe was just a Kelly pick
Joegrane
I agree that Rowe not being a Howie/Schwartz pick could have been a major part of the reason.

My recollection is that Buddy Ryan was furious with Carter for not running routes over the middle and a variety of other issues, including Carter's legal and addiction problem. He got so frustrated he finally cut Carter.

This is a good article for those who were too young to remember. I'll include a few quotes.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/3/...r-terrell-owens

"All he does is score touchdowns....He had an opportunity to make plays, and he didn’t run his routes with discipline, he short-armed balls, he has trouble with bump and run… He did some things, you know, you can’t live with." B Ryan

I suppose some of those things Ryan did not want to discuss in public.

I've been saying all along that the Carter - Rowe comparison might be extreme. It might not. We don't know.

My main point is that it is foolish to put even most of the blame on the coaches. Maybe they deserve it, maybe not.

However with our own eyes we saw the ineffective play along with unprofessional body language in the preseason. That plus the good point RF made might have been enough to take a 3rd or 4th round pick for him.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 11 2017, 04:38 PM) *
Not sure how you can even think to compare the 2......one was a trade of a young guy who was not the pick of the GM and accompanied with a ridiculous excuse...the other was the attempt of a coach to save a guys life and shock him into getting help.

Carter was heading down a horrible path....Rowe was just a Kelly pick

nephillymike
Interesting article on the subject

http://www.csnphilly.com/the700level/eagle...umental-blunder

9th.

Ouch!
Zero
Which raises the question about the DC. I'm not so sure he has the same input into player aquisition and I'm not so sure he has the job security he did last year. That's not meant to say his job is on the line or that he's not a very good DC, just that this year he should have more to prove. Consistency last year wasn't a strength of the defense.
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