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Zero
Elected to the HOF? WTF? Why?
nephillymike
I will never understand it.

I guess he made money for the other owners.

I missed the boat on my prediction.

I heard Dawk made the final 10.

How the heck can Faneca not make the final 10?

And TO didn't make the final 10?

He must have done more damage to locker rooms than we heard about.
nephillymike
And about Faneca and his 6 all pro selections:

Approx only 10 of the 260 HOF players have more than 6 all pro selections.

10.

And this guy doesn't make the top 10?

All pro is not like the pro bowl where you get in because someone is not interested in playing.

Unreal.
Eyrie
Very disappointed but not overly surprised that Dawkins didn't get in at the first attempt. There is no question though that he deserves to be in Canton and would have been a better choice this year than Easley, Jones or Andersen.

Faneca will always struggle because he played OL, which is ridiculously underrepresented because OL doesn't lend itself to gaudy stats like the overrepresented QB position.
Rick
If that doesn't show what a mockery the NFL HoF is then nothing does. TO still not in and Dawkins not in. But JJ makes it in.

I don't care about some BS about not making it in on the first attempt blah blah blah. It's utter bullshit. TO should have been in last year and Dawkins should be in this year. Period. They both deserve it. JJ doesn't deserve shit. His team--since he's owned them--has been nothing special. Had a good run for a bit there but no dynasty or anything crazy like that.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 5 2017, 07:45 AM) *
Elected to the HOF? WTF? Why?

Like him or not Jerry Jones deserves to be elected to the HoF. He's a visionary and one of the best money makers the NFL has seen. He's widely considered to be one of the best owners in NFL history.

QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 5 2017, 09:04 AM) *
JJ doesn't deserve shit. His team--since he's owned them--has been nothing special. Had a good run for a bit there but no dynasty or anything crazy like that.

In most sports, three (SB) championships in four seasons is generally accepted as a dynasty. Suggesting that was a just a "good run" is an indication of a bias.

QUOTE
Jones purchased the Cowboys in 1989 for $140 million. With that investment, he constructed three championship teams to bring the franchise’s total to five. He’s turned that intial investment into the most valuable franchise in all of sports, now worth over $4 billion.

Not only has he proven to be savvy with team finances, he’s taken a lead role with the league in negotiating the last collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Player’s Association, and was instrumental in the Rams moving to the West Coast to return football to Los Angeles.

His biggest contribution might have been how he revolutionized the league’s television package, which has taken the league to unprecedented earning levels. From his maverick approach to marketing the Cowboys (he had a contentious legal back-and-forth with the league over branding the team separate from league agreements which he won), to his league-leading monetary gains, Jones has exemplified what it means to be a Hall of Fame contributor to the NFL over the last 27 years.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 5 2017, 12:49 PM) *
Like him or not Jerry Jones deserves to be elected to the HoF. He's a visionary and one of the best money makers the NFL has seen. He's widely considered to be one of the best owners in NFL history.

Bullshit. If it were posthumous I'd understand, but Jimmy Johnson built those winners and coached those winners. Jones has done shit except make money and if that's what makes HOF now I may just give up on the NFL forever. Fuck him!
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 5 2017, 12:54 PM) *
Bullshit. If it were posthumous I'd understand, but Jimmy Johnson built those winners and coached those winners. Jones has done shit except make money and if that's what makes HOF now I may just give up on the NFL forever. Fuck him!

The majority of the football understands that it was a collaborative effort between Jones and Johnson that built that dynasty. Also, keep in mind that the role of the owner is more than that of the on-field product. You can't denounce the immense value of the Cowboys franchise in marketing the NFL. Jones played a major role in that, not to mention his role in negotiations for the owners vs the NFLPA. Those are all valued commodities in evaluating the worth of an owner and their enshrinement in the HoF. Suggesting that his value would be increased posthumously is an indication that he has already earned it.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 5 2017, 02:51 PM) *
The majority of the football understands that it was a collaborative effort between Jones and Johnson that built that dynasty. Also, keep in mind that the role of the owner is more than that of the on-field product. You can't denounce the immense value of the Cowboys franchise in marketing the NFL. Jones played a major role in that, not to mention his role in negotiations for the owners vs the NFLPA. Those are all valued commodities in evaluating the worth of an owner and their enshrinement in the HoF. Suggesting that his value would be increased posthumously is an indication that he has already earned it.

Puleeze. Your basic argument is that, because he earned a lot of money and has helped other owners earn a lot of money, he deserves to be in. I'm not buying thta.

Jones didn't take the value of the Cowboys from nothing to a lot, they were already one of the most valuable sports franchises in any sport when he bought them. He just didn't fuck it up. Hardly an argument for a HoF entry. Besides, just earning money doesn't mean you should be in the HoF.

The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 5 2017, 01:54 PM) *
Jones has done shit except make money and if that's what makes HOF now I may just give up on the NFL forever. Fuck him!


No, you'll bitch for a bit and then go right back to mock drafts - which is why, once again, Goodell and the NFL has given you and all fans the finger by electing Jones and spurning deserving players. As long as they keep making money, they'll keep blatantly reminding you that they don't give a shit about you.
Dreagon
Dawkins should have gone in.
TO should be allowed in post-mortem as a warning to other players that stats will not be the whole story considered.

JJ? Beats me. I guess this is just a reminder that the NFL is a business and the guy who makes people money is gonna get rewarded. Either that, or he is being acknowledged for his "fame" of being the only idiot to ever fire a coach right after winning his second straight Super Bowl.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 5 2017, 07:45 AM) *
Elected to the HOF? WTF? Why?

SMH

Unfuckingbelievable.

Just another slap in the face.
Phits
What is the criteria for an owner being selected to the HoF? or do owners not deserve a pace in the HoF?

QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 5 2017, 02:25 PM) *
Puleeze. Your basic argument is that, because he earned a lot of money and has helped other owners earn a lot of money, he deserves to be in. I'm not buying thta.

Jones didn't take the value of the Cowboys from nothing to a lot, they were already one of the most valuable sports franchises in any sport when he bought them. He just didn't fuck it up. Hardly an argument for a HoF entry. Besides, just earning money doesn't mean you should be in the HoF.

Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 6 2017, 12:23 AM) *
What is the criteria for an owner being selected to the HoF? or do owners not deserve a pace in the HoF?
I'm definitely not a Pats fan, but let's consider they guy who took a moribund franchise, put them on the map and won 5 SBs. Jones hired the right coach who put together the right team who won 3 SBs. After the coach left he played GM and they won nothing (not counting the Switzer carry over). Not sure why you'd defend this.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 6 2017, 01:23 AM) *
What is the criteria for an owner being selected to the HoF? or do owners not deserve a pace in the HoF?

I don't think there are any criteria, however, I'd think they'd have to actually DO something--and not just earn money, ALL owners earn money.

I know it sounds like sour grapes but, honestly, it's not. The guy has done more to screw up his team than to actually build his team. So, why, other than earning money, should he deserve it?
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 6 2017, 05:50 AM) *
I'm definitely not a Pats fan, but let's consider they guy who took a moribund franchise, put them on the map and won 5 SBs. Jones hired the right coach who put together the right team who won 3 SBs. After the coach left he played GM and they won nothing (not counting the Switzer carry over). Not sure why you'd defend this.

Kraft is an exceptional owner. However, comparing the two owners is like saying Brian Dawkins is a great safety but he's no Ronnie Lott and then discounting Dawkins as a result.

Like Robert Kraft Jerry Jones hired the right coach. If the Patriots don't win another championship after Belichick/Brady are gone, does that discount Kraft as an owner?

As I've said, the on-field success of the Cowboys is only one criteria for Jones HoF credibility. I'm not sure how you are willing to ignore all of his other contributions to the league.


QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 6 2017, 05:54 AM) *
I don't think there are any criteria, however, I'd think they'd have to actually DO something--and not just earn money, ALL owners earn money.

That's a little short-sighted. He's the owner, the team president, the defacto GM and the Cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world. That's not just luck.

QUOTE
I know it sounds like sour grapes but, honestly, it's not. The guy has done more to screw up his team than to actually build his team.

How so?

QUOTE
So, why, other than earning money, should he deserve it?

You don't have to like him or his team, but that's a lot of hats to wear. Bottom line is he's in the Hall of Fame because of his influence on the game as a whole. Those billion dollar stadiums, that all the teams want, can be attributed to Jones' vision.

QUOTE
He goes in as a contributor, recognizing not just how he has transformed the Cowboys into the most valuable sports franchise in the world, but more importantly how played such a major role into turning the entire NFL into a money making and marketing juggernaut. As has been said elsewhere, the league would not be what it is without his influence and leadership.



Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 6 2017, 11:18 AM) *
That's a little short-sighted. He's the owner, the team president, the defacto GM and the Cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world. That's not just luck.

They were ALREADY one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world when he bought them. They are still one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world. So where's the magic?

Please let me know, exactly, what he's done to deserve being in the HoF?

If he had taken them from obscurity into being one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world, I'd say you have something. He didn't do that.

His team won a few SBs, that's the only thing I can think of that might justify it but I don't believe a short time of success justifies it.

Other than that, your other arguments seem to be that he's made a lot of money and made a lot of money for other people. Well, pretty much ALL of the owners have done that. So should they ALL be in the HoF?
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 6 2017, 10:18 AM) *
As I've said, the on-field success of the Cowboys is only one criteria for Jones HoF credibility. I'm not sure how you are willing to ignore all of his other contributions to the league.

After Johnson left, the Cowboys declined considerably under Jones' watch. What contributions did he make to the league?
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 6 2017, 10:30 AM) *
They were ALREADY one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world when he bought them. They are still one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world. So where's the magic?

They are THE MOST valuable sports franchise in the world. If you think that just happens 'because' I don't know what to tell you.

QUOTE
Please let me know, exactly, what he's done to deserve being in the HoF?

He's earned whatever criteria you would use to permit an owner in the HoF.

QUOTE
His team won a few SBs, that's the only thing I can think of that might justify it but I don't believe a short time of success justifies it.

He helped build a dynasty. How many dynasties have their been in the NFL?

QUOTE
Other than that, your other arguments seem to be that he's made a lot of money and made a lot of money for other people. Well, pretty much ALL of the owners have done that. So should they ALL be in the HoF?

Google is your friend. I've entered the search string and posted the link for a search:
What has Jerry Jones done to earn entry to the HoF?


QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 6 2017, 08:26 PM) *
After Johnson left, the Cowboys declined considerably under Jones' watch. What contributions did he make to the league?

You mean after he built a dynasty....and became the most valuable sports franchise in the world....and set the standards for stadiums...and helped the NFL return to LA....and helped broker the TV and marketing deals that have seen the NFL turn into a juggernaut?

Keep in mind that Jerry Jones isn't being inducted for his GM skills. He is going in because of his executive leadership as an owner. Quite frankly, there is a lot more that goes into running an NFL franchise than the final on-field product.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 7 2017, 09:18 AM) *
They are THE MOST valuable sports franchise in the world. If you think that just happens 'because' I don't know what to tell you.


He's earned whatever criteria you would use to permit an owner in the HoF.


He helped build a dynasty. How many dynasties have their been in the NFL?


Google is your friend. I've entered the search string and posted the link for a search:
What has Jerry Jones done to earn entry to the HoF?


You mean after he built a dynasty....and became the most valuable sports franchise in the world....and set the standards for stadiums...and helped the NFL return to LA....and helped broker the TV and marketing deals that have seen the NFL turn into a juggernaut?

Keep in mind that Jerry Jones isn't being inducted for his GM skills. He is going in because of his executive leadership as an owner. Quite frankly, there is a lot more that goes into running an NFL franchise than the final on-field product.


So, again, your argument is that he earned a bunch of money. Still not sure what that does to earn you entry into the HoF.

And he didn't take the Cowboys from being like Cleveland and made them valuable. They were ALREADY at or near the top when he bought them. so that means nothing.

So what IS the criteria for an owner in the HoF? I'm asking YOU what YOU say it is


As far as the, "dynasty," he built in your words, they had a good run there but what about after that? Not like we're talking 20 years or even 15 years of greatness.

I'm still wondering why he deserves to be in the HoF. Like I said, he had a good run there although I wouldn't say it was long enough to justify it I can see an argument at least. The other BS about him making money for people has nothing to do with being in the HoF from what I can tell unless there is some criteria for owners which says they have to earn $X.
Reality Fan
I would argue that Jerry Johnson built the franchise and it is pretty easy to defend that....and seeing that the Cowboys, although they have the 3 SBs the team that Johnson built gave them, have 13 seasons of .500 or below since Jones bought the,,,,the Eagles? 11...in fact...since the Johnson built team aged and sputtered the Cowboys have been in the playoffs 8 times in 20 years and have not gotten past the divisional round.

He has the benefit of being in a cash rich area with little competition from another NFL team and a team that had a rich tradition of winning before he bought them. He has been a great business man in building the business outside of the on field product but not sure how that translates to the HOF.
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 7 2017, 11:07 AM) *
So, again, your argument is that he earned a bunch of money. Still not sure what that does to earn you entry into the HoF.

He's an owner, what do you expect from him a 4/1 TD to INT ratio?

QUOTE
And he didn't take the Cowboys from being like Cleveland and made them valuable. They were ALREADY at or near the top when he bought them. so that means nothing.

The state of the Cowboys in '89 compared to where they are is night and day. One of the primary reasons is that Jones fought the NFL (and won) for the right to use a local revenue sharing model vs the existing NFL model. That changed the fortunes for a bunch of teams in the NFL.

QUOTE
As far as the, "dynasty," he built in your words, they had a good run there but what about after that? Not like we're talking 20 years or even 15 years of greatness.

How many NFL dynasties last 15-20 years? For that matter, how many sport franchises can attest to that? Jerry Jones became owner in 1989. Only one team has won more Super Bowls (since then), and that's the Patriots

QUOTE
I'm still wondering why he deserves to be in the HoF. Like I said, he had a good run there although I wouldn't say it was long enough to justify it I can see an argument at least.

You know who else had a good run, Don Shula. However, in his last 22 years in the league, Shula didn't win a title....and he had Dan Marino. Shula was a HC, so how about Ralph Wilson Jr.? 4 consecutive SB losses entitles you to the HoF.

QUOTE
The other BS about him making money for people has nothing to do with being in the HoF from what I can tell unless there is some criteria for owners which says they have to earn $X.

Jones was elected to the HoF as a contributor, not as a GM, Coach or player. It's what did he do outside of the building to make the NFL a better place and a better league? And what he did was change the financial dynamic. He's the one who got Fox involved, and that's taken the TV money to astronomical heights. You discount this as a major factor.
These are the areas where he demonstrated tremendous leadership as an NFL contributor:
- marketing
- sponsorship
- TV
- stadium management
- labor negotiations.

To suggest other owners have done the same is simply untrue.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 7 2017, 11:54 AM) *
I would argue that Jerry Johnson built the franchise and it is pretty easy to defend that....and seeing that the Cowboys, although they have the 3 SBs the team that Johnson built gave them, have 13 seasons of .500 or below since Jones bought the,,,,the Eagles? 11...in fact...since the Johnson built team aged and sputtered the Cowboys have been in the playoffs 8 times in 20 years and have not gotten past the divisional round.

How did Johnson do when he went to Miami? You can't credit just one of them. They both deserve equal praise in building the Cowboy dynasty. Afterall, it was Jones who pulled the trigger on the Herschel Walker trade that changed the fortunes of the Cowboys. However, his role as GM isn't why he was elected to the HoF.

QUOTE
He has the benefit of being in a cash rich area with little competition from another NFL team and a team that had a rich tradition of winning before he bought them. He has been a great business man in building the business outside of the on field product but not sure how that translates to the HOF.

He's in the HoF for his contributions to the NFL and the success that has transpired since.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 8 2017, 07:15 PM) *
He's an owner, what do you expect from him a 4/1 TD to INT ratio?


The state of the Cowboys in '89 compared to where they are is night and day. One of the primary reasons is that Jones fought the NFL (and won) for the right to use a local revenue sharing model vs the existing NFL model. That changed the fortunes for a bunch of teams in the NFL.

Really? Exactly, HOW different was it? Obviously, they grew--like EVERY OTHER NFL TEAM during that time, but, what, exactly, did he do to take them to greater heights? They were ALREADY one of the most valuable--if not the most valuable--sports franchises at the time he bought them.

QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 8 2017, 07:15 PM) *
How many NFL dynasties last 15-20 years? For that matter, how many sport franchises can attest to that? Jerry Jones became owner in 1989. Only one team has won more Super Bowls (since then), and that's the Patriots


You know who else had a good run, Don Shula. However, in his last 22 years in the league, Shula didn't win a title....and he had Dan Marino. Shula was a HC, so how about Ralph Wilson Jr.? 4 consecutive SB losses entitles you to the HoF.

So, by your own very argument, you have to admit, it's been 21 years (and counting) since the Cowboys' last title.

QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 8 2017, 07:15 PM) *
Jones was elected to the HoF as a contributor, not as a GM, Coach or player. It's what did he do outside of the building to make the NFL a better place and a better league? And what he did was change the financial dynamic. He's the one who got Fox involved, and that's taken the TV money to astronomical heights. You discount this as a major factor.
These are the areas where he demonstrated tremendous leadership as an NFL contributor:
- marketing
- sponsorship
- TV
- stadium management
- labor negotiations.

To suggest other owners have done the same is simply untrue.

I didn't say other owners did exactly what he's done. You seem to put all of the weight on him making money. I don't believe that should be a factor in getting into the HoF.




QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 8 2017, 07:15 PM) *
He's in the HoF for his contributions to the NFL and the success that has transpired since.

And it's debatable his contributions to the NFL have been all good except to other owners.

When he's long gone, what will he be remembered for? He'll be remembered for being a meddling owner who constantly got in his own way of keeping his team on top. It's obvious he stumbled into the, "dynasty," you speak about (although I'm not sure where you get 15-20 years from), as evidenced by their lack of championships or even playing for one in over 20 years. So again, I'm not sure why he deserves to get in other than he earned a bunch of people a bunch of money. So, essentially, you can buy your way into the HoF...
Reality Fan

QUOTE
How did Johnson do when he went to Miami? You can't credit just one of them. They both deserve equal praise in building the Cowboy dynasty. Afterall, it was Jones who pulled the trigger on the Herschel Walker trade that changed the fortunes of the Cowboys. However, his role as GM isn't why he was elected to the HoF.


No...they don't...you apparently don't know the history of it....first, Johnson had control...second Johnson tried to trade Irvin to the Raiders and Al Davis talked him out of it (talk about bizarre)...then Johnson came up with the idea of trading Walker...Johnson talked to the Vikes, not Jones. Johnson told the Vikes that he was was going to trade Walker to Cleveland...that spurred Mike Lynn to make the ridiculous offer for Walker. Jones only involvement was to help Johnson by telling other teams that they were going to trade Walker. Furthermore, Johnson had full control over all decisions and refused to allow Jones input which is one reason they parted ways. When the Cowboys won their 3rd SB 2 years after Johnson left 70% of the starters were holdover from Johnson's reign.

Johnson made the playoffs 4 of the 5 years in Miami where he was limited in what he could do to rebuild the Dolphins though he had some great drafts...his biggest problem in Miami was that he and Marino hated each other. The funny thing was that when Johnson quit the first time Marino pleaded with him to come back....but they never really got along because they both wanted to be king of the hill. The other problem he had was that his defense fell apart in the playoffs for whatever reason



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