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nephillymike
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/...own-percentage/

I did say in a post last week about how my son and I entertained ourselves with the way short of the marker 3rd down plays. Seems like Florio and others saw the same thing.

He had a pretty good year, but this facet of his game is amazing to watch.
Joegrane
I think in the last paragraph they are "picking on" Sammy B. With his injury history, the Viking's 2nd string O Line and their strong defense, he was right to take what the D was giving and play it safe.

If the Vikings are going to win next year they will need a reasonably healthy O Line and healthy Adrian Peterson.

QUOTE
Bradford’s season points to one of the flaws of the NFL’s official passer rating statistic, which incorporates completion percentage but not first downs. Bradford finished sixth in the NFL in passer rating, thanks in large part to that record first down percentage. Statistics that factor in not just whether a pass was completed but whether that pass picked up a first down, like ESPN’s QBR or Football Outsiders’ DVOA, didn’t think so highly of Bradford: He finished 18th of 30 qualifying quarterbacks in QBR and 17th of 34 qualifying quarterbacks in DVOA.

Vikings coach Mike Zimmer has declared that Bradford earned the right to start next season. If Zimmer wants to win with Bradford next season, he’s going to need Bradford to start pushing the ball down the field.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/...own-percentage/

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 5 2017, 07:50 PM) *
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/...own-percentage/

I did say in a post last week about how my son and I entertained ourselves with the way short of the marker 3rd down plays. Seems like Florio and others saw the same thing.

He had a pretty good year, but this facet of his game is amazing to watch.
Phits
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 09:09 PM) *
If the Vikings are going to win next year they will need a reasonably healthy O Line and healthy Adrian Peterson.

They'll need a productive AP, not just a healthy one. He'll be 32 at the start of next season.
Reality Fan
DVOA is tough because it does not take into account the teams injury situation that necessitates adjusting scheme...in the Vikes case they had vendors trying out to play O line...lol They did not have a lot of choice.

I mean, seriously....they allowed 102 QB hits and had one of the worst running games which makes for a lot of 3rd and longs....I love how the nuances are left out even when the guy plays well...

I guess they need to talk about something.
Joegrane
Yes, that happens when people are just looking at numbers and not evaluating the entire situation.

CW's numbers don't look very good, but almost everyone thinks he passed the "eye test."

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:32 PM) *
DVOA is tough because it does not take into account the teams injury situation that necessitates adjusting scheme...in the Vikes case they had vendors trying out to play O line...lol They did not have a lot of choice.

I mean, seriously....they allowed 102 QB hits and had one of the worst running games which makes for a lot of 3rd and longs....I love how the nuances are left out even when the guy plays well...

I guess they need to talk about something.

JeeQ
Samantha Badford and Stat Padford are the two most overrated QBs of all time.

Badford has a HoF worthy completion percentage but he's NEVER HAD A WINNING SEASON AND NEVER MADE THE PLAYOFFS!

Stat Padford has HoF worthy passing yards and TDs but he HAS ONLY 5 WINS OVER WINNING TEAMS IN 8 SEASONS AND NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME!

That's the problem with this ESPN era of having stats for every damn thing. It makes players look better than they really are.
Phits
It's a catch-22. When you play the short passing game it will affect your ability to run effectively. Which then affects your ability to pass effectively downfield.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:32 PM) *
DVOA is tough because it does not take into account the teams injury situation that necessitates adjusting scheme...in the Vikes case they had vendors trying out to play O line...lol They did not have a lot of choice.

I mean, seriously....they allowed 102 QB hits and had one of the worst running games which makes for a lot of 3rd and longs....I love how the nuances are left out even when the guy plays well...

I guess they need to talk about something.

Joegrane
I think I know what you mean but please explain.

QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 6 2017, 12:11 PM) *
It's a catch-22. When you play the short passing game it will affect your ability to run effectively. Which then affects your ability to pass effectively downfield.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 6 2017, 12:11 PM) *
It's a catch-22. When you play the short passing game it will affect your ability to run effectively. Which then affects your ability to pass effectively downfield.


I would disagree with your premise....what affects your ability to run effectively is having your entire offensive line injured and going through 6 OTs. That is the issue. That and a dearth of RBs with talent...neither a hard thing to observe when viewing the Vikes. The only way to move the ball in that situation is to get rid of the ball quickly.
Joegrane
I hear you RF about the injuries, but if you don't have a RB with speed and you have no deep threat WR, safeties don't have to play deep. That is going to cause more congestion for both the running game and short passing game.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 7 2017, 12:38 AM) *
I would disagree with your premise....what affects your ability to run effectively is having your entire offensive line injured and going through 6 OTs. That is the issue. That and a dearth of RBs with talent...neither a hard thing to observe when viewing the Vikes. The only way to move the ball in that situation is to get rid of the ball quickly.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 7 2017, 10:13 AM) *
I hear you RF about the injuries, but if you don't have a RB with speed and you have no deep threat WR, safeties don't have to play deep. That is going to cause more congestion for both the running game and short passing game.


I agree.....that is the reason their passing game was short.....there were few options
Zero
I'd love to see them draft McCaffery in the second.
nephillymike
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/alex/2017...x-season-review

This analysis shows it very well. Read it carefully as to what it measures.

Sleeves was 14th in average distance to go on 3rd down, but yet his air yards per pass were 33rd in distance travelled in the air, relative to the first down marker.

Charlie is checking it down with the best of them!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 7 2017, 03:14 PM) *
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/alex/2017...x-season-review

This analysis shows it very well. Read it carefully as to what it measures.

Sleeves was 14th in average distance to go on 3rd down, but yet his air yards per pass were 33rd in distance travelled in the air, relative to the first down marker.

Charlie is checking it down with the best of them!


and it accounts for team situations how?....no RB , a hurt number 1 WR and a ridiculously injury riddled o line...how does it account for that?.....what does it tell you?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 7 2017, 05:31 PM) *
and it accounts for team situations how?....no RB , a hurt number 1 WR and a ridiculously injury riddled o line...how does it account for that?.....what does it tell you?

If that supposedly subpar supporting cast was that bad, it would also show on first and second down but as they are rated 14th in yards to go on 3rd down, they must be doing decently on those downs.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 7 2017, 05:31 PM) *
....no RB , a hurt number 1 WR and a ridiculously injury riddled o line...how does it account for that?.....what does it tell you?

Maybe that he's jinxed and his best value to a team is trading him for a high pick? laugh.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 8 2017, 11:21 PM) *
If that supposedly subpar supporting cast was that bad, it would also show on first and second down but as they are rated 14th in yards to go on 3rd down, they must be doing decently on those downs.


They rated that highly because he threw the ball on first and 2nd down....I am not sure how you miss that they rushed for the least yards in the entire NFL....this is not difficult stuff to understand. (not to mention the least yards per attempt)
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