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JeeQ
Any takers? laugh.gif
The Franchise
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jan 3 2017, 12:04 PM) *
Any takers? laugh.gif


If I was Lurie I'd offer him to be Greg Lewis's assistant WR coach.

Then I'd bring DeSean back.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Birdman420
His attitude only got worse with San Fran, his final game press conf made me want to punch him in the nuts
Dreagon
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Jan 3 2017, 11:42 AM) *
His attitude only got worse with San Fran, his final game press conf made me want to punch him in the nuts


He pretty much blamed everything on the GM...although I don't really feel bad for Trent Baalke either.
Birdman420
yeah but he's 2 for 2 being the common denominator... that says enough for me.
JeeQ
Can't remember who dubbed him the Franchise Killer but good call
The Franchise
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Jan 3 2017, 01:42 PM) *
His attitude only got worse with San Fran, his final game press conf made me want to punch him in the nuts


Not to defend him, but can you blame him for being bitter? Baalke basically told the world he was being fired right before the final game as a parting shot, and Kelly has to go meet with a 36-year old child to lose his job. I thought Jed York's press conference a couple days ago was ten times worse, where he basically said 'you don't fire the owner' in response to a question about cleaning house.

What an absolute dumpster fire of an organization, especially one that was one of the most popular franchises in all of sports.
Zero
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jan 3 2017, 01:34 PM) *
Not to defend him, but can you blame him for being bitter? Baalke basically told the world he was being fired right before the final game as a parting shot, and Kelly has to go meet with a 36-year old child to lose his job. I thought Jed York's press conference a couple days ago was ten times worse, where he basically said 'you don't fire the owner' in response to a question about cleaning house.

What an absolute dumpster fire of an organization, especially one that was one of the most popular franchises in all of sports.

Fuck the Snark King. He's the one who dissed the Eagles about being around "football people" in SF.
nephillymike
Finally!

An important player/coach that we let go/cut/traded that did not do a great job for someone else.

Murray
Maxwell
Bradford (yes I said it)
Alonso
Reid (said that too)
McCoy
Mathis
Jackson
R. Shepard WR
Rowe

I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 3 2017, 07:03 PM) *
Fuck the Snark King. He's the one who dissed the Eagles about being around "football people" in SF.


Yeah I agree fuck him. I'm just saying it isn't surprising he is bitter towards Baalke and York. They seem like even bigger assholes than he is.
Joegrane
Love it, Franchise! : )

I don't think he'll even get an offensive coordinator job in the NFL, mostly due to his personality.

I still think the NFL veteoed Chip and his option offense when they did nothing about the dirty hit on Bradford by a Baltimore DE in the 2015 preseason game.

He still had a positive effect on the league with his nutritional program and his use of tempo. You see more teams using tempo on occasion, not just in the 2 minute drill.

I expect him to be successful again in college football where he can get away with being the dictator.

QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jan 3 2017, 12:36 PM) *
If I was Lurie I'd offer him to be Greg Lewis's assistant WR coach.

Then I'd bring DeSean back.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


JeeQ
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 3 2017, 06:40 PM) *
Finally!

An important player/coach that we let go/cut/traded that did not do a great job for someone else.

Murray
Maxwell
Bradford (yes I said it)
Alonso
Reid (said that too)
McCoy
Mathis
Jackson
R. Shepard WR
Rowe

I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut.


It's funny because it's true
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 3 2017, 08:40 PM) *
Finally!

An important player/coach that we let go/cut/traded that did not do a great job for someone else.

Murray
Maxwell
Bradford (yes I said it)
Alonso
Reid (said that too)
McCoy
Mathis
Jackson
R. Shepard WR
Rowe

I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut.



Yes...it is sad.....but that is Howie....
rumply
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 3 2017, 09:40 PM) *
Finally!

An important player/coach that we let go/cut/traded that did not do a great job for someone else.

Murray
Maxwell
Bradford (yes I said it)
Alonso
Reid (said that too)
McCoy
Mathis
Jackson
R. Shepard WR
Rowe

I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut.




Doesn't make for great reading, does it? So how is Howie justify his track record at all those meetings they have? Or does he just assume position each time Lurie walks in the room?...
Phits
You forgot Dominique Rodgers Cromartie (DRC).

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 3 2017, 08:40 PM) *
Finally!

An important player/coach that we let go/cut/traded that did not do a great job for someone else.

Murray
Maxwell
Bradford (yes I said it)
Alonso
Reid (said that too)
McCoy
Mathis
Jackson
R. Shepard WR
Rowe

I guess even a blind squirrel gets a nut.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 4 2017, 09:14 PM) *
You forgot Dominique Rodgers Cromartie (DRC).


Yes, I thought about him and forgot to include him!

I know I was missing someone!

Thanks.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 4 2017, 09:31 PM) *
Yes, I thought about him and forgot to include him!

I know I was missing someone!

Thanks.


And Kurt Coleman
Joegrane
And Patrick Chung. I thought he was the worst S I had ever seen. Since being picked up by the Pats he has received extensions and is signed through 2018

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 08:39 AM) *
And Kurt Coleman
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 10:36 AM) *
And Patrick Chung. I thought he was the worst S I had ever seen. Since being picked up by the Pats he has received extensions and is signed through 2018



Good one...forgot about him
nephillymike
Wow, forgot them.

Really depressing.

Well, at least Givens and Randle didn't do anything............

Wait, that's bad too, because that means not only can't we evaluate our own talent, we can't evaluate free agents we sign to the point that neither of these guys were good enough to make the worst WR corps in the NFL!
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 5 2017, 07:31 PM) *
Wow, forgot them.

Really depressing.

Well, at least Givens and Randle didn't do anything............

Wait, that's bad too, because that means not only can't we evaluate our own talent, we can't evaluate free agents we sign to the point that neither of these guys were good enough to make the worst WR corps in the NFL!

Randle may not have been great in NY, but he was better there than he was here.
Joegrane
How much of that is the first year in a new system? Chung might be an example of that. He just looked lost.

How much of that is putting a guy in a new system that he is not comfortable with or not best suited to be in? Isn't Maxwell a good example? Didn't he play a lot of Zone in Seattle and was asked to play lots of Man here?

I thought Nate Alan would go on to be a decent, although over-paid, Safety in Oakland, but my recollection is that he under-performed his contract there, correct?
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 5 2017, 07:31 PM) *
Wow, forgot them.

Really depressing.

...

Wait, that's bad too, because that means not only can't we evaluate our own talent, we can't evaluate free agents we sign to the point that neither of these guys were good enough to make the worst WR corps in the NFL!

Phits
Sometimes the system trumps the talent. In those cases it's up to the coaching staff to put their players in a situation to succeed.

QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 08:53 PM) *
How much of that is the first year in a new system? Chung might be an example of that. He just looked lost.

How much of that is putting a guy in a new system that he is not comfortable with or not best suited to be in? Isn't Maxwell a good example? Didn't he play a lot of Zone in Seattle and was asked to play lots of Man here?

I thought Nate Alan would go on to be a decent, although over-paid, Safety in Oakland, but my recollection is that he under-performed his contract there, correct?

The Franchise
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 09:53 PM) *
I thought Nate Alan would go on to be a decent, although over-paid, Safety in Oakland, but my recollection is that he under-performed his contract there, correct?


Ugh don't remind me of him, I thought he was going to end up being excellent for us.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 08:53 PM) *
How much of that is the first year in a new system? Chung might be an example of that. He just looked lost.

How much of that is putting a guy in a new system that he is not comfortable with or not best suited to be in? Isn't Maxwell a good example? Didn't he play a lot of Zone in Seattle and was asked to play lots of Man here?

I thought Nate Alan would go on to be a decent, although over-paid, Safety in Oakland, but my recollection is that he under-performed his contract there, correct?


and that is up to the GM to hire a coach that can use the roster and to fill the roster with guys that fit the system...Howie can't do either
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 5 2017, 10:09 PM) *
Sometimes the system trumps the talent. In those cases it's up to the coaching staff to put their players in a situation to succeed.


The good coaches modify the system to fit their talent
Joegrane
Howie performed a Houdini act last year making Chips guys disappear and pulling a legit franchise QB that Philly actually likes out of his hat. So I'm willing to give him a couple more years with this coaching staff to see what he and his new talent evaluators can do.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:19 PM) *
and that is up to the GM to hire a coach that can use the roster and to fill the roster with guys that fit the system...Howie can't do either
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 5 2017, 11:40 PM) *
Howie performed a Houdini act last year making Chips guys disappear and pulling a legit franchise QB that Philly actually likes out of his hat. So I'm willing to give him a couple more years with this coaching staff to see what he and his new talent evaluators can do.


in the end it was a terrible Houdini act.....it highlights both problems.....if Maxwell and Murray did not fit Kelly's system and you are getting a new coach then get a coach who knows how to use the guy who ended up in the top 5 rushers again this year. Maxwell did not fit the Kelly system so get rid of him from a team with terrible corner issues...great move....and Maxwell goes to a team that knows how to use them and plays well. Howie overpaid for Wentz, a fact Cleveland confirmed so he did not pull anything out....and he got lucky that Bridgewater blew out his knee or we would really be screwed.

He is a terrible talent evaluator and a terrible GM......and a petty, bitter little man......
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:58 PM) *
in the end it was a terrible Houdini act.....it highlights both problems.....if Maxwell and Murray did not fit Kelly's system and you are getting a new coach then get a coach who knows how to use the guy who ended up in the top 5 rushers again this year. Maxwell did not fit the Kelly system so get rid of him from a team with terrible corner issues...great move....and Maxwell goes to a team that knows how to use them and plays well. Howie overpaid for Wentz, a fact Cleveland confirmed so he did not pull anything out....and he got lucky that Bridgewater blew out his knee or we would really be screwed.

He is a terrible talent evaluator and a terrible GM......and a petty, bitter little man......

Murray supposedly said he didn't want to be here, and saying that Cleveland confirmed something is like saying a burglarer insists his innocence. Regardless, if Wentz does become a franchise QB like some that he's compared to the price wasn't too steep and luck only works if you're in position to take advantage of it and actually do. Having a winning lottery ticket isn't lucky if you don't check the numbers. Roseman saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. If you ask me, Minnesota is the one who overpaid for a player.

I'm willing to give Roseman the benefit of doubt that he's changed. He did a good job last year backed into a corner. He hired personnel people who have a good rep and reportedly is giving them the rope to do their jobs. People can change ... we'll see.
Joegrane
I agree about "petty."

Maybe he was being straight about not wanting to patch up the team so they could go 10-6. Maybe they wanted to rebuild from the top down for the long term.

They picked a HC who fit the "culture" Lurie wants. They got a D coordinator that fit the most talented segment of the D--the 4-3 D Line.

Maybe he is being honest that being set at QB was the priority and so he had to give up something--Maxwell, etc-- to get something--#2 pick. I think they were in love with CW.

I also think the Eagles were really lucky that the Rams could not take CW over CA native, Goff. Also CW with his Midwest, Christian values probably was a mis-fit on the Left Coast and maybe not ideal in Cleveland too. I also think the new coach in Cleveland was hoping to resurrect the career of RGIII and therefore find his QB without having to use a high draft pick.

I actually think Howie and the Eagles will be okay. I like Schwartz. I think Pedey will be okay as head pastor...err coach...as long as he has a very solid OC. I think Reich can be that. Having an above average, play-making QB can make up for some inadequacies in coaching.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:58 PM) *
in the end it was a terrible Houdini act.....it highlights both problems.....if Maxwell and Murray did not fit Kelly's system and you are getting a new coach then get a coach who knows how to use the guy who ended up in the top 5 rushers again this year. Maxwell did not fit the Kelly system so get rid of him from a team with terrible corner issues...great move....and Maxwell goes to a team that knows how to use them and plays well. Howie overpaid for Wentz, a fact Cleveland confirmed so he did not pull anything out....and he got lucky that Bridgewater blew out his knee or we would really be screwed.

He is a terrible talent evaluator and a terrible GM......and a petty, bitter little man......

Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 5 2017, 11:58 PM) *
Howie overpaid for Wentz, a fact Cleveland confirmed so he did not pull anything out....and he got lucky that Bridgewater blew out his knee or we would really be screwed.

Using CLE as an example of what to do or not to do doesn't help your argument, in fact quite the opposite. They still don't have a QB in the mistake by the lake. That's a testament to the ineptitude of that franchise.

I am sure there is a cost that exceeds the value of a franchise QB, but in no way did we reach that ceiling. In Wentz we have a QB to build around. In today's NFL that's the most important single piece. The concern with our rookie QB isn't whether he can be good/great for us, but whether we are able to continue to support his development by putting the right pieces around him.
Joegrane
Are you hearing that the people in MN feel that way? I think they rolled the dice. They felt they had an elite defense and enough on O to give them an opportunity to make a deep run. The window of time to make that happen does not stay open long, including the aging A Peterson.

As it turned out, Sam's performance made their season interesting for almost the entire season.

Is that really good, or is that bad? If they did not have Sam they would have been as bad as Chi and would be getting a Top 10 pick.

They also would still not have a starting-caliber QB for this coming year due to the severity of TeddyB's injury. Now they know they have a playoff-caliber QB in place. However unlike a young guy, they have to pay Sam big $.

QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 6 2017, 11:53 AM) *
Using CLE as an example of what to do or not to do doesn't help your argument, in fact quite the opposite. They still don't have a QB in the mistake by the lake. That's a testament to the ineptitude of that franchise.

I am sure there is a cost that exceeds the value of a franchise QB, but in no way did we reach that ceiling. In Wentz we have a QB to build around. In today's NFL that's the most important single piece. The concern with our rookie QB isn't whether he can be good/great for us, but whether we are able to continue to support his development by putting the right pieces around him.

Phits
I don't think Minny had/has a choice. Their success is predicated on how well AP performs. Rolling the dice on a veteran QB for an immediate impact is a must for them. Most teams have a 2-4 year playoff window before they have to re-tool. An SB window is probably half of that (1-2 years). This was supposed to be year 2 for playoff contention. Instead, they took a step back. If they are lucky, with a full year in the system, Bradford will blossom into something other than a Checkdown Charlie. They have a few young explosive receivers, a good TE, and Adrian Peterson, plus a decent defense. I believe that their success hinges on QB play. If they don't make a postseason splash next season I wouldn't be surprised to Zimm out as HC.

QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 6 2017, 04:28 PM) *
Are you hearing that the people in MN feel that way? I think they rolled the dice. They felt they had an elite defense and enough on O to give them an opportunity to make a deep run. The window of time to make that happen does not stay open long, including the aging A Peterson.

As it turned out, Sam's performance made their season interesting for almost the entire season.

Is that really good, or is that bad? If they did not have Sam they would have been as bad as Chi and would be getting a Top 10 pick.

They also would still not have a starting-caliber QB for this coming year due to the severity of TeddyB's injury. Now they know they have a playoff-caliber QB in place. However unlike a young guy, they have to pay Sam big $.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 6 2017, 11:53 AM) *
Using CLE as an example of what to do or not to do doesn't help your argument, in fact quite the opposite. They still don't have a QB in the mistake by the lake. That's a testament to the ineptitude of that franchise.

I am sure there is a cost that exceeds the value of a franchise QB, but in no way did we reach that ceiling. In Wentz we have a QB to build around. In today's NFL that's the most important single piece. The concern with our rookie QB isn't whether he can be good/great for us, but whether we are able to continue to support his development by putting the right pieces around him.


I am not using Cleveland as an example of anything......they flat out said, in an interview, that they were shocked and thrilled at how much the Eagles offered.....they did not expect so much. That's all...Howie used the Gomez Adams negotiating strategy. I do give him credit, Wentz looked pretty good as a rookie. I was wrong about him, he surprised me.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 7 2017, 12:35 AM) *
I am not using Cleveland as an example of anything......they flat out said, in an interview, that they were shocked and thrilled at how much the Eagles offered.....they did not expect so much. That's all...Howie used the Gomez Adams negotiating strategy. I do give him credit, Wentz looked pretty good as a rookie. I was wrong about him, he surprised me.

I think the point, which I agree with, is that Cleveland is a failed organization and whatever they say needs to be taken in that context.
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