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Zero
Marcus Hayes used to impress me more than he has recently, but I think he's making a comeback. Maybe it's because he was moved from the Eagles, or maybe he's a bit arrogant and combative.
QUOTE
Wentz has a strong, resilient arm. He completed 379 passes, the most by a rookie by almost 7 percent. He has no trouble delivering the ball, with pace, into small windows. His 3,782 passing yards are fourth in Eagles history; the three previous times it was done, the receiving corps included Cris Carter and Mike Quick; then Terrell Owens; then DeSean Jackson.

Wentz had Nelson Agholor
QUOTE
Wentz said he probably will seek out an external quarterback coaching expert like Tom House, who helped Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Joe Flacco improve.

There's plenty to improve. He needs to work on the trajectory and the velocity of his deep passes; his footwork; his habit of dropping his arm; accuracy when throwing on the move; recognizing and beating blitzes (especially from the area of their origin); his habit of throwing foolish passes, deep, late and over the middle; proficiency in the red zone.
Here ...

OT note:
QUOTE
According to a report by the Buffalo News' Vic Carucci, the Bills will interview Frank Reich for their open head coaching position. Carucci also reported former Eagles defensive coordinator and current Panthers DC Sean McDermott will interview for the job as well.


JeeQ
You can see the moment when Wentz realizes his WRs can't catch and he can't rely on them.

We need to get him reliable targets ASAP before he loses that gunslinger mentality and plays scared.
Reality Fan
Did we have great WRs last year?....I keep hearing how bad our WRs are yet last year it was the fucking QB....christ, they were better this year, as bad as they were.

Watch every NFL game and plenty of easy drops occur. There is not some fountain out there where good WRs flow from. We have to get lucky in the draft. Agholar was very good in college and not because he was "bigger and stronger" because he did not shrink when he came to the NFL...he was just really good.....something got in his head but he is a great example of how hard it is to find a good NFL WR. There will be little help at WR in FA...there is too much money out there for the Eagles to get good upgrade. Wentz will have another year under his belt and a chance to work with most of the same guys and that will be the difference. For every easy drop the Eagles had they had some ridiculous catches as well.

Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 12:53 AM) *
Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.
They apparently have plenty of money to sign one or two good FAs, and they don't need studs, only guys who will be competent. They need to add true competition and, yes, familiarity will help. BTW, Jeffery is a stud.

Agholor was a good pick but something seems to have happened in his head. If he can clear that up maybe he can be the guy he was in college. Maybe they need a new receivers coach again - GLew is a good story, but is he a good coach? Maybe there's a WR camp these guys can go to. Both DGB and Agholor have the talent, they need to find a way to use it. If they can't do that the team needs to have alternatives to go to.

There's three ways to get new players, FA, draft and trade. The Eagles will be adding a few WRs before OTAs, if you want to call that an overhaul, fine. Whatever you want to call it, it's about fixing a problem.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 01:53 AM) *
Did we have great WRs last year?....I keep hearing how bad our WRs are yet last year it was the fucking QB....christ, they were better this year, as bad as they were.

Watch every NFL game and plenty of easy drops occur. There is not some fountain out there where good WRs flow from. We have to get lucky in the draft. Agholar was very good in college and not because he was "bigger and stronger" because he did not shrink when he came to the NFL...he was just really good.....something got in his head but he is a great example of how hard it is to find a good NFL WR. There will be little help at WR in FA...there is too much money out there for the Eagles to get good upgrade. Wentz will have another year under his belt and a chance to work with most of the same guys and that will be the difference. For every easy drop the Eagles had they had some ridiculous catches as well.

Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.

Go back and read the posts from last year...yes, the WRs sucked last year, too.

It can be overhauled, just maybe not with high-priced FAs but, just about anything is better than what they have now.

If you think these WRs are the average WR in the NFL, then you need to watch a little more NFL. These WRs are HORRIBLE. Way worse than average. They drop more balls than the average WR group. But that's not their worst problem. They can't get open. They don't go after the ball when it's in the air. They don't lay out for balls. They don't try to make the tough catch. If they do make a catch, they fall down at the first sign of a defender on the field (or just run out of bounds before the 1st down marker).

These are not things NFL WRs do. An NFL WR may not do all of these things but they do some of them. The Eagles WRs don't do ANY of them. These guys are bad...REALLY bad...
GroundedBird
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 12:53 AM) *
Did we have great WRs last year?....I keep hearing how bad our WRs are yet last year it was the fucking QB....christ, they were better this year, as bad as they were.

Watch every NFL game and plenty of easy drops occur. There is not some fountain out there where good WRs flow from. We have to get lucky in the draft. Agholar was very good in college and not because he was "bigger and stronger" because he did not shrink when he came to the NFL...he was just really good.....something got in his head but he is a great example of how hard it is to find a good NFL WR. There will be little help at WR in FA...there is too much money out there for the Eagles to get good upgrade. Wentz will have another year under his belt and a chance to work with most of the same guys and that will be the difference. For every easy drop the Eagles had they had some ridiculous catches as well.

Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.


Yes, as a whole, the WRs suck. And Wentz is throwing to the only reliable receivers he has: Sproles, Ertz, Jordan Matthews, Trey Burton. They are the only ones in the top 100 in reliability (link)

That doesn't mean we shouldn't get WRs that are more reliable or ones that can stretch the field.

I'd remove some of the dead wood and get a FA WR from that link above. Even Anquan Boldin (who's ancient would be an upgrade). And I LOVE Corey Davis, I would draft him. Just doing those two things would help temendously.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 12:53 AM) *
Did we have great WRs last year?....I keep hearing how bad our WRs are yet last year it was the fucking QB....christ, they were better this year, as bad as they were.

Watch every NFL game and plenty of easy drops occur. There is not some fountain out there where good WRs flow from. We have to get lucky in the draft. Agholar was very good in college and not because he was "bigger and stronger" because he did not shrink when he came to the NFL...he was just really good.....something got in his head but he is a great example of how hard it is to find a good NFL WR. There will be little help at WR in FA...there is too much money out there for the Eagles to get good upgrade. Wentz will have another year under his belt and a chance to work with most of the same guys and that will be the difference. For every easy drop the Eagles had they had some ridiculous catches as well.

Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.


Just consider this, at this point last year NO ONE saw us getting up to two and picking Wentz. You never can predict how an off season will go, maybe Howie will pull another rabbit out of his hat.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 05:53 AM) *
Did we have great WRs last year?....I keep hearing how bad our WRs are yet last year it was the fucking QB....christ, they were better this year, as bad as they were.

Watch every NFL game and plenty of easy drops occur. There is not some fountain out there where good WRs flow from. We have to get lucky in the draft. Agholar was very good in college and not because he was "bigger and stronger" because he did not shrink when he came to the NFL...he was just really good.....something got in his head but he is a great example of how hard it is to find a good NFL WR. There will be little help at WR in FA...there is too much money out there for the Eagles to get good upgrade. Wentz will have another year under his belt and a chance to work with most of the same guys and that will be the difference. For every easy drop the Eagles had they had some ridiculous catches as well.

Folks need to stop thinking that the WR corp will somehow be drastically overhauled...it won't be....the Eagles don't have the comparitive cap room to overpay and even if they did there are no obvious "studs" out there leaving their current teams.

Pray they find a sleeper in the draft and/or the QB improves and his relationship with the current group helps. DGB and NA are young...they are only going into their 3rd season.....their effort to get better will be the deciding factor.

Geezus H Krist, will you get over it? Sleeves is LONG gone now. And he STILL SUCKS Nards.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jan 3 2017, 01:11 PM) *
Geezus H Krist, will you get over it? Sleeves is LONG gone now. And he STILL SUCKS Nards.


hahahaha....too funny.....yes..he had an awful year...you never disappoint
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 3 2017, 06:03 AM) *
They apparently have plenty of money to sign one or two good FAs, and they don't need studs, only guys who will be competent. They need to add true competition and, yes, familiarity will help. BTW, Jeffery is a stud.

Agholor was a good pick but something seems to have happened in his head. If he can clear that up maybe he can be the guy he was in college. Maybe they need a new receivers coach again - GLew is a good story, but is he a good coach? Maybe there's a WR camp these guys can go to. Both DGB and Agholor have the talent, they need to find a way to use it. If they can't do that the team needs to have alternatives to go to.

There's three ways to get new players, FA, draft and trade. The Eagles will be adding a few WRs before OTAs, if you want to call that an overhaul, fine. Whatever you want to call it, it's about fixing a problem.


You missed the term comparative....their cap room compared to other teams is in a very bad position right now....even with cuts they will be in the bottom half of the league in cap room and they will have a lot of holes to fill....they won't be in a position to outbid teams.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Jan 3 2017, 07:04 AM) *
Go back and read the posts from last year...yes, the WRs sucked last year, too.

It can be overhauled, just maybe not with high-priced FAs but, just about anything is better than what they have now.

If you think these WRs are the average WR in the NFL, then you need to watch a little more NFL. These WRs are HORRIBLE. Way worse than average. They drop more balls than the average WR group. But that's not their worst problem. They can't get open. They don't go after the ball when it's in the air. They don't lay out for balls. They don't try to make the tough catch. If they do make a catch, they fall down at the first sign of a defender on the field (or just run out of bounds before the 1st down marker).

These are not things NFL WRs do. An NFL WR may not do all of these things but they do some of them. The Eagles WRs don't do ANY of them. These guys are bad...REALLY bad...


Where we disagree is that these WRs should be given up on....DGB is young and worth some effort. NA can't be given up on...they need him to get his shit together. They have a ton of holes and little cap room to fill them. The guys they cut for cap room are just more holes. NA and DGB are only 2nd year guys. Matthews is just a 3rd year guy. Ertz is a hot mess...good when the games no longer counts and he is the guy that drops to the ground on contact.. Say what you want about DGB but he made a lot of tough catches for 1st downs....with good coaching and repetition he might be a real find.

But tell me where I said that our WRs were average? I said easy drops occur in every game and you somehow think that implies our group is average. What they are is young.....very young just like Wentz. They were not good this year...or last year....last year the implication was that it was the QB....they need to grow these guys.....and add a decent speed guy.

There is not much wiggle room to do much more.
Zero
What they need is to hedge their bets and give themselves alternatives in case these guys don't pan out. Competition.
samaroo
Like I said before, last year the WRs were terrible, and dropped balls at a ridiculous rate. I remember thinking "there's no way a whole group of NFL WRs can drop balls like that, it must be the QB. It's the only common factor." Which doesn't make sense, but neither do our WRs.

Sammy is gone, and the WRs still suck supernards, so...

NA is young, so is DGB. Sure, maybe they'll develop. Let them do an(other) offseason, and see where they are. In the meantime, get more WRs. Hopefully they're better if NA and DGB still suck. If not, bonus!

But an upgrade at WR is sorely needed. Until we have pass catchers that I don't assume will drop the first down (let alone what Wentz thinks), we aren't going to be much better than we were this season, no matter what else changes.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Jan 3 2017, 07:20 PM) *
Like I said before, last year the WRs were terrible, and dropped balls at a ridiculous rate. I remember thinking "there's no way a whole group of NFL WRs can drop balls like that, it must be the QB. It's the only common factor." Which doesn't make sense, but neither do our WRs.

Sammy is gone, and the WRs still suck supernards, so...

NA is young, so is DGB. Sure, maybe they'll develop. Let them do an(other) offseason, and see where they are. In the meantime, get more WRs. Hopefully they're better if NA and DGB still suck. If not, bonus!

But an upgrade at WR is sorely needed. Until we have pass catchers that I don't assume will drop the first down (let alone what Wentz thinks), we aren't going to be much better than we were this season, no matter what else changes.


I don't disagree that an upgrade is needed.....I just don't think it is going to be as easy as many here make it sound...other teams have too much cap space in excess of what the Eagles can marshall even with the cuts and the position is highly coveted. They can only do it in the draft which they have not done well with or get lucky with a retread FA.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 3 2017, 05:38 PM) *
Where we disagree is that these WRs should be given up on....DGB is young and worth some effort. NA can't be given up on...they need him to get his shit together. They have a ton of holes and little cap room to fill them. The guys they cut for cap room are just more holes. NA and DGB are only 2nd year guys. Matthews is just a 3rd year guy. Ertz is a hot mess...good when the games no longer counts and he is the guy that drops to the ground on contact.. Say what you want about DGB but he made a lot of tough catches for 1st downs....with good coaching and repetition he might be a real find.

But tell me where I said that our WRs were average? I said easy drops occur in every game and you somehow think that implies our group is average. What they are is young.....very young just like Wentz. They were not good this year...or last year....last year the implication was that it was the QB....they need to grow these guys.....and add a decent speed guy.

There is not much wiggle room to do much more.

Sure, they are young but NA just plain sucks. No other way to put it. The guy ranks down near the bottom in every important category for WR. Yes, you can give up on him. He's shown absolutely NO improvement at all. I'd say he's gotten worse but you just can't get any worse.

I'm ok with giving DGB a chance. He actually shows flashes of being good to great.

Matthews is the best of the lot but he needs a solid #1 receiver to make him better.

You say Ertz is a hot mess but he's probably the best of the lot right now. Not that I am a fan of him. But it just shows you how bad this receiving group is.

I didn't say you said they are average but you're implying it saying the drops are (more or less) normal. The amount of drops this team has is not normal at all. I f you think so, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I also love hearing you guys spout on about cap space, etc. I remember many of you spouting on about the Eagles not having the cap room to sign some of the guys they did this past offseason. I don't pretend to be an expert in cap space because it's much more complicated than what seems to be in the press. You always hear about a team having cap space issues and they find a way to make things work. The Cowboys were screwed for cap space not that long ago but they've been able to sign some big name players and keep the ball rolling and now, well, 13-3 isn't so bad.

I let the accountants figure out cap space like I let my accountant figure out my taxes.

I don't know who is available in the draft (I don't follow college football at all.) nor who will be available in FA as far as receives go. I don't expect them to get a stud although it would be nice. Just looking for guys who can and will make plays. Right now, the Eagles don't really have that. Is it coaching? Maybe it is and maybe a better WR coach would fix it. I don't care what they do but it's really gotten old watching these guys not get open, drop balls, etc. while shittier teams have guys who actually make a play or two.

Imagine what Wentz's numbers would have been if he'd had REAL NFL-caliber receivers....
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 4 2017, 12:27 AM) *
I don't disagree that an upgrade is needed.....I just don't think it is going to be as easy as many here make it sound...other teams have too much cap space in excess of what the Eagles can marshall even with the cuts and the position is highly coveted. They can only do it in the draft which they have not done well with or get lucky with a retread FA.

Who says it would be easy?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Jan 4 2017, 06:45 AM) *
Who says it would be easy?


did you miss the 'as many here make it sound"?

It is really going to take incredible luck or the use of draft picks (again) and getting lucky with them.
samaroo
Getting good NFL talent at any position is a struggle. There are 32 teams fighting over a very small talent pool, so I get that it's not easy. But they need to try, for sure. I don't think we'll find our core WRs through FA. A serviceable NFL caliber guy should be enough there, some veteran guidance and depth ("Hey kid, you catch the ball with your hands, like this.")

We'll definitely need to find our outside playmakers through the draft. Good-to-great established WRs are super expensive. We've had bad luck drafting them lately, and that needs to change. But we have to try to get them anyway.
rumply
I didn't see Turner doing too much wrong once he got a chance, but I guess he will be looking for opportunities elsewhere now.

Sometimes teams don't need to look too far to find the fix they are looking for so I still dont get why he wasnt given a chance earlier once the current wr group started stinking it up week after week.
rumply
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jan 2 2017, 07:44 PM) *
You can see the moment when Wentz realizes his WRs can't catch and he can't rely on them.



yeah agree, it was no accident Wentz started to struggle at times. I challenge any QB let alone a rookie not to have his confidence shaken when makeable catch after makeable catch gets dropped, big gain plays get called back because of utter stupidity or wins are pissed away by poor coaching decisions.

Wentz is the real deal afaiac so fingers crossed the Eagles FO & coaches can do what needs to be done to make this thing work.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 4 2017, 05:48 PM) *
did you miss the 'as many here make it sound"?

It is really going to take incredible luck or the use of draft picks (again) and getting lucky with them.

Somebody needs to be held accountable when things don't appear to be as easy as they seem.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 4 2017, 09:12 PM) *
Somebody needs to be held accountable when things don't appear to be as easy as they seem.



Good point!

The kid who just can't do well because all of those tests aren't as easy as they seem might just have a problem of not being smart enough, or of not preparing well enough!!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 4 2017, 09:33 PM) *
Good point!

The kid who just can't do well because all of those tests aren't as easy as they seem might just have a problem of not being smart enough, or of not preparing well enough!!


and that is the problem....that kid is just given year after year to "not make the same mistake" over and over until this team is in a position that is make or break
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