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Zero
The Eagles are fourth place in a four-team division. The GM is an unknown and the personnel department is new and unknown. The Coach is new and unproven and the franchise QB is new and unproven. They're cap-strapped and at least need 3 skill players (WR, RB, WR) for the offense, 2 CBs and a LB for the defense. They're picking in the middle of each round with a questionable (at best) recent draft record.

The sad part is that I'm not sure if that's being optimistic or pessimistic.

Optimism says they've been in almost every game despite those obvious challenges. Pessimism tells me they've screwed up on too many recent FA signings and drafts. We need these guys to be really good at their jobs ...
nephillymike
And we pay you to be Optimistic?

Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 1 2017, 07:24 PM) *
And we pay you to be Optimistic?

Give me a few hours and a chance to get see my W-2. biggrin.gif
Dreagon
You came one game short of .500 with a rookie QB. That's pretty good. You've got your QB of the future and now you go through the process of surrounding him with weapons. That sounds more like a team that's starting it's climb.

Consider the Giants. They made the playoffs, but let's face it...Eli is done. They have nobody behind him and are unlikely to make a push in the draft for a high value prospect as long as he is hanging around. Their running game is nothing special, and JPP is down again. All the other teams in their division have their franchise QB and are building for the future. They are a team on thin ice, and the water is draining out beneath the crust they are standing on.
Zero
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jan 1 2017, 07:33 PM) *
You came one game short of .500 with a rookie QB. That's pretty good. You've got your QB of the future and now you go through the process of surrounding him with weapons. That sounds more like a team that's starting it's climb.

Consider the Giants. They made the playoffs, but let's face it...Eli is done. They have nobody behind him and are unlikely to make a push in the draft for a high value prospect as long as he is hanging around. Their running game is nothing special, and JPP is down again. All the other teams in their division have their franchise QB and are building for the future. They are a team on thin ice, and the water is draining out beneath the crust they are standing on.
You're trying to raise my spirits by invoking the Eli-is-done argument while I watch the team at the pinnacle of my hate list earn first seed in the NFC after a loss, with a rookie QB and a rookie RB who, incidentally, won the rushing title while sitting out the final game? While I'm moved to accept that you have a valid point, the pounding on the front of my cranial lobe reminds me that we'll need to improve our OL, add skilled WRs and a RB and find two CBs who are capable of defending passes sans penalties and ensure that both our personnel department and head coach are able to do their jobs well enough to fill those needs and use them properly.

I'm looking for Optimystic.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 1 2017, 07:16 PM) *
The Eagles are fourth place in a four-team division. The GM is an unknown and the personnel department is new and unknown. The Coach is new and unproven and the franchise QB is new and unproven. They're cap-strapped and at least need 3 skill players (WR, RB, WR) for the offense, 2 CBs and a LB for the defense. They're picking in the middle of each round with a questionable (at best) recent draft record.

The sad part is that I'm not sure if that's being optimistic or pessimistic.

Optimism says they've been in almost every game despite those obvious challenges. Pessimism tells me they've screwed up on too many recent FA signings and drafts. We need these guys to be really good at their jobs ...

You forgot to add that it is the first year of a team being rebuilt, with a new HC and a new QB. They did better than I expected.
The Franchise
That's because it IS mediocrity. We need a couple skill players, and Pederson needs an intervention. Our entire DB corps needs to be sacked. The future looks pretty decent with Wentz though.
Joegrane
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jan 1 2017, 08:34 PM) *
That's because it IS mediocrity.


Well said. The Eagles are not a bad team. With L Johnson they probably are slightly above average.

QUOTE
Our entire DB corps needs to be sacked.


McCloud is Pro Bowl first alternate. Jenkins was a Pro Bowler last year. So stop repeating the foolish statement about the entire "DB corp". It is just foolishness.

QUOTE
We need a couple skill players, and Pederson needs an intervention. The future looks pretty decent with Wentz though.


I agree with you and have to agree with the Cowgirl fan about CW. He is clearly a franchise QB--smart, athletic, tough, a leader. This is a big advantage going forward. If you are a FA WR, the first thing you look at is the quality of the QB. CW is not going to discourage a play-making WR from coming here.

The team played well with L Johnson and a healthy R Matthews. You might also add with Ron Brooks allowing Jenkins do what he does best, create havoc in the secondary.

They just have a HUGE hole at #1WR and holes at #2 WR, both outside CB spots and at #1 RB.

That is too much to fix in one year especially considering the cap limitations. Also their spot in a tough division will make them less attractive to elite players at their positions.

Adding a solid #2 caliber WR would be a big addition to the offense.

I'd like to see a slight upgrade from N Carroll at CB. I don't know if there will be cap room for more than that.

A first or second round outside CB and 2nd or 3rd round RB would help to fill holes.
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 1 2017, 09:04 PM) *
They just have a HUGE hole at #1WR and holes at #2 WR, both outside CB spots and at #1 RB.

That is too much to fix in one year especially considering the cap limitations. Also their spot in a tough division will make them less attractive to elite players at their positions.

I disagree. They can target either a solid, yet second tier player for either/or CB and WR in FA and go again in the draft. CB is supposed to be fairly deep in the draft but WR should go early as long as the opportunity presents itself. Also, don't discount Trader Howie, moving someone like Barwin or Kendricks for a player of need.

Roseman is a deal maker, no question there. The question is if he's able to make good evaluations, and that's where Douglas and Weidl will need to earn their money. Between trading and buying, FA could go a ways to solving some problems without a major influx. The names don't need to be headliners but the players need to fit the systems.

Drafting is a bit more of a crapshoot but picking at 14 will either be a decent starting point for a modest move up or give them a shot at a player who drops. They should be a slot or two earlier in subsequent rounds, not bad to restock.

The return of Optimystic.

Joegrane
Part of my view is because I trust Schwartz to get us a good CB in round 1. I don't trust the Eagles to pick a really good WR in the draft. I'd rather see them get a veteran FA WR. That is by far their biggest need. They need to get that position filled.

Also they need the WR to step in and be the #1WR immediately. A 1st round draft pick is not likely to be able to do that. Furthermore FAs are signed before the draft. That gives the FA much more time to start to learn the playbook and spend some time playing back yard football with CW before training camp.

They won't need the CB to start immediately, especially if he is rotating to keep the aged McKelvin fresh. However, if they pick a CB in Round 1, he might have enough physical skills to start. A second rounder might not.

Furthermore, if they pick WR and CB in rounds 1 and 2 you have to wait for round 3 to pick a RB. That might not be a problem, but maybe the rookie will need more seasoning than a guy selected in round 2. They'll likely have a hole at #1 RB to fill as well, unless you expect the to sign a low priced FA RB.

Finally I'd like to give NA and especially DGB another year to see how they develop. Signing a FA WR gives them more time to evaluate the young WRs. So if DGB looks like an okay #2 WR going forward, they know they have their big, Red Zone WR. They can focus on drafting a speed guy in 2018 to complement him. However if DGB flames out, maybe they look to round 1 in 2018 for a bigger target for CW. I assume NA will be a marginal WR at best or more likely a complete bust.

I don't think Barwin or Kendricks have any significant trade value, the former due to his price tag, the latter due to his performance.

QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 1 2017, 09:18 PM) *
I disagree. They can target either a solid, yet second tier player for either/or CB and WR in FA and go again in the draft. CB is supposed to be fairly deep in the draft but WR should go early as long as the opportunity presents itself. Also, don't discount Trader Howie, moving someone like Barwin or Kendricks for a player of need.

Roseman is a deal maker, no question there. The question is if he's able to make good evaluations, and that's where Douglas and Weidl will need to earn their money. Between trading and buying, FA could go a ways to solving some problems without a major influx. The names don't need to be headliners but the players need to fit the systems.

Drafting is a bit more of a crapshoot but picking at 14 will either be a decent starting point for a modest move up or give them a shot at a player who drops. They should be a slot or two earlier in subsequent rounds, not bad to restock.

The return of Optimystic.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 1 2017, 09:04 PM) *
Well said. The Eagles are not a bad team. With L Johnson they probably are slightly above average.



McCloud is Pro Bowl first alternate. Jenkins was a Pro Bowler last year. So stop repeating the foolish statement about the entire "DB corp". It is just foolishness.



I agree with you and have to agree with the Cowgirl fan about CW. He is clearly a franchise QB--smart, athletic, tough, a leader. This is a big advantage going forward. If you are a FA WR, the first thing you look at is the quality of the QB. CW is not going to discourage a play-making WR from coming here.

The team played well with L Johnson and a healthy R Matthews. You might also add with Ron Brooks allowing Jenkins do what he does best, create havoc in the secondary.

They just have a HUGE hole at #1WR and holes at #2 WR, both outside CB spots and at #1 RB.

That is too much to fix in one year especially considering the cap limitations. Also their spot in a tough division will make them less attractive to elite players at their positions.

Adding a solid #2 caliber WR would be a big addition to the offense.

I'd like to see a slight upgrade from N Carroll at CB. I don't know if there will be cap room for more than that.

A first or second round outside CB and 2nd or 3rd round RB would help to fill holes.


Our cap is ok, not great. Plenty to add four free agents after doing a little cost trimming. Like was said, I'm not sure how attractive an option we are for FA.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 1 2017, 07:16 PM) *
The Eagles are fourth place in a four-team division. The GM is an unknown and the personnel department is new and unknown. The Coach is new and unproven and the franchise QB is new and unproven. They're cap-strapped and at least need 3 skill players (WR, RB, WR) for the offense, 2 CBs and a LB for the defense. They're picking in the middle of each round with a questionable (at best) recent draft record.

The sad part is that I'm not sure if that's being optimistic or pessimistic.

Optimism says they've been in almost every game despite those obvious challenges. Pessimism tells me they've screwed up on too many recent FA signings and drafts. We need these guys to be really good at their jobs ...


Who do you think you are to steal my thunder? How dare you become me!!!!!!


lololol
Eyrie
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 2 2017, 03:13 AM) *
Finally I'd like to give NA and especially DGB another year to see how they develop. Signing a FA WR gives them more time to evaluate the young WRs. So if DGB looks like an okay #2 WR going forward, they know they have their big, Red Zone WR. They can focus on drafting a speed guy in 2018 to complement him. However if DGB flames out, maybe they look to round 1 in 2018 for a bigger target for CW. I assume NA will be a marginal WR at best or more likely a complete bust.


I'm fine with giving the two of them another year, but they're competing with Turner, Treggs and a cheap FA or late rookie to make my team. If they're good enough, then they will be there.

Our need is for an established veteran and a good prospect to join Matthews as our starters. Jackson and a big WR in round two, or Jeffrey and a speedster in round two would do me. Cap constraints make the Jackson option more likely.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jan 2 2017, 06:25 AM) *
Our need is for an established veteran and a good prospect to join Matthews as our starters. Jackson and a big WR in round two, or Jeffrey and a speedster in round two would do me. Cap constraints make the Jackson option more likely.

This pretty much is how I feel. DGB and Agholor may improve, but can't be counted on. Talent needs to be added, if those two improve then the team's better for it.

They still need a solid RB too, more than Barner, Marshall or Watson. All of those guys look to be nice additions, but the team needs a #1 back almost as much as they need a #1 WR. I liked what I saw from Marshall yesterday and Watson could have promise as short yardage back, but it's more than a question as to if either of them could be a feature back or together make a solid rotation.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jan 2 2017, 06:25 AM) *
I'm fine with giving the two of them another year, but they're competing with Turner, Treggs and a cheap FA or late rookie to make my team. If they're good enough, then they will be there.

Our need is for an established veteran and a good prospect to join Matthews as our starters. Jackson and a big WR in round two, or Jeffrey and a speedster in round two would do me. Cap constraints make the Jackson option more likely.

Yep.

My post FA/draft depth chart has neither of them higher than #4 on my depth chart.

If their play warrants a promotion, great.

If they are who I thought they are, I'm covered.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 1 2017, 10:04 PM) *
McCloud is Pro Bowl first alternate. Jenkins was a Pro Bowler last year. So stop repeating the foolish statement about the entire "DB corp". It is just foolishness.


Maragos is an alternate too, so fucking what?

Our CB's are far worse than our safeties, but I generally chalk up anything positive from our secondary to our front 7 getting pressure. Stafford and Dalton looked like Aaron Rodgers when facing our DB's, and Rodgers looked like, well, Rodgers. They had a couple good showings this year (notably when our front 7 did well), but any decent passing attack is going to shred us apart. With the money Jenkins and McCleod make, I'd rather just start over with a couple draft picks. They aren't the future.
Joegrane
Not for playing Safety!

QUOTE (The Franchise @ Jan 2 2017, 12:20 PM) *
Maragos is an alternate too, so fucking what?

Our CB's are far worse than our safeties, but I generally chalk up anything positive from our secondary to our front 7 getting pressure. Stafford and Dalton looked like Aaron Rodgers when facing our DB's, and Rodgers looked like, well, Rodgers. They had a couple good showings this year (notably when our front 7 did well), but any decent passing attack is going to shred us apart. With the money Jenkins and McCleod make, I'd rather just start over with a couple draft picks. They aren't the future.


QUOTE
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 1 2017, 10:04 PM) *
McCloud is Pro Bowl first alternate. Jenkins was a Pro Bowler last year. So stop repeating the foolish statement about the entire "DB corp". It is just foolishness.
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