Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Mikey Numbers
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Pages: 1, 2
Zero
Not much question the Eagles are in cap trouble next year and 2018. Next year OTC is showing them at ($867,312) and carrying dead money of $6,802,597. In '18 they lose the dead money and are slated to have a bottom-dwelling cap number of $14,060,966 which is an improvement over this year in available money.

A couple of questions:
  1. Does the dead money affect the cap numbers they show on the charts or has it already been factored?
  2. How fixed is the 2018 projection?
  3. Realistically, how will they be set to operate in FA next year and in 2018 considering cap hell?
  4. Do you, or anyone else, think Peters or anyone will be willing to take a pay cut? How do pay decreases affect the cap?
I'm not a numbers guy and sometimes I get fogged with this stuff. It seems like they have enough next year to sign 2 decent FAs. Are there realistic ways a creative capologist can improve their cap position? Seems to be Roseman's forte.
Joegrane
Bradford will still cost them $5mil in dead $ in 2017 according to one site; another says no.

I think it is hard to predict the cap problems from the typical websites because they may not show how much the cap increases from year to year.

When I look at the typical sites I compare dead $ to cap savings and cap hit.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/philadelphia-eagles/

For example Ch Daniel becomes an attractive one to cut after next season because they can save $7mil but only incur $1mil in dead $

We also have to factor in the Eagles FAs, especially guys like B Logan who are due for a big pay increase. Of course some of them won't be coming back and will be replaced by a rookie, for example as S Tulloch ($2.5mil)
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/philadelphia-eagles/

One site says the Eagles have $17 mil free in 2017, another says they are slightly over the cap. Could the huge difference be due to one site estimating the increase in the cap next year?

QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 11:06 AM) *
Not much question the Eagles are in cap trouble next year and 2018. Next year OTC is showing them at ($867,312) and carrying dead money of $6,802,597. In '18 they lose the dead money and are slated to have a bottom-dwelling cap number of $14,060,966 which is an improvement over this year in available money.

A couple of questions:
  1. Does the dead money affect the cap numbers they show on the charts or has it already been factored?
  2. How fixed is the 2018 projection?
  3. Realistically, how will they be set to operate in FA next year and in 2018 considering cap hell?
  4. Do you, or anyone else, think Peters or anyone will be willing to take a pay cut? How do pay decreases affect the cap?
I'm not a numbers guy and sometimes I get fogged with this stuff. It seems like they have enough next year to sign 2 decent FAs. Are there realistic ways a creative capologist can improve their cap position? Seems to be Roseman's forte.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 11:06 AM) *
Not much question the Eagles are in cap trouble next year and 2018. Next year OTC is showing them at ($867,312) and carrying dead money of $6,802,597. In '18 they lose the dead money and are slated to have a bottom-dwelling cap number of $14,060,966 which is an improvement over this year in available money.

A couple of questions:
  1. Does the dead money affect the cap numbers they show on the charts or has it already been factored?
  2. How fixed is the 2018 projection?
  3. Realistically, how will they be set to operate in FA next year and in 2018 considering cap hell?
  4. Do you, or anyone else, think Peters or anyone will be willing to take a pay cut? How do pay decreases affect the cap?
I'm not a numbers guy and sometimes I get fogged with this stuff. It seems like they have enough next year to sign 2 decent FAs. Are there realistic ways a creative capologist can improve their cap position? Seems to be Roseman's forte.

Miss me yet?
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-pho...ure-id110692895


nephillymike
Z,

I will take a look at it for you and get back to you.

If Joe G is correct and different sites are saying different thing than it may be tough.

Birdwatcher
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 29 2016, 07:12 PM) *
Z,

I will take a look at it for you and get back to you.

If Joe G is correct and different sites are saying different thing than it may be tough.



If Howie didn't factor in plans for next season and beyond before doing what he did last year then we are screwed. But I think he does have a plan to create cap space the next few years, we will have to see how he plays this out. But that is not my biggest worry, its what they do with the damn money that matters and I have little confidence they will make the right picks.
Zero
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Dec 29 2016, 07:53 PM) *
If Howie didn't factor in plans for next season and beyond before doing what he did last year then we are screwed. But I think he does have a plan to create cap space the next few years, we will have to see how he plays this out. But that is not my biggest worry, its what they do with the damn money that matters and I have little confidence they will make the right picks.

We'll have to see how they pan out, but this is the reason I keep mentioning Douglas and Weidl. They were both supposedly highly regarded for what they contributed in Baltimore, let's all pray Roseman and Lurie got these hires right.
nephillymike
Z,

Use this site as a reference as they summarize it better.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

That page has every teams cap broken down by general component.

If you click on the Eagles you will get a detail of the Eagles cap.

You can also select different years.

If you go to the bottom of the Eagles page you will see a nice summary that shows:

The published cap for this year
+ rollover cap "haucked" (or carried over for you newbies)from previous years
- adjustments
= Total Cap Available to be spent

The uses of the cap are shown next:
The cap value of active contracts
+ the cap value of those on injured reserve
+ the cap value of those on the practice squad
+ the cap value of dead money contracts
= Total Charges against the Cap
Cap Available less cap charges = Cap Space.

Due to changes in the CBA, essentially all of this rolls into next year (9.5 M)

I will try to answer your specific questions in another reply.
Reality Fan
I looked at the numbers before the season and a few folks here whined and bitched that the cap is never a factor and all that silliness but suddenly the beat writers are jumping on the bandwagon.....there are issues next year...this year was the year to try to do something because we are going to bleed players next year
Zero
Thanks, mikey. I'll look it over more closely tomorrow.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 29 2016, 09:40 PM) *
I looked at the numbers before the season and a few folks here whined and bitched that the cap is never a factor and all that silliness but suddenly the beat writers are jumping on the bandwagon.....there are issues next year...this year was the year to try to do something because we are going to bleed players next year

RF, I agree with you that this year was a better opportunity than next but for different reasons.

You think the cap will be a direct problem. It won't be.

A little trimming of the fat and we'll be fine cap wise.

However, we have a relative problem.

Even though I project that we will have 30M of cap room next year and have a much better than most teams 44 players under contract, we still have a problem.

Our seemingly plush cap space figure of 30M, even after we even out for number of players signed, will put us in the bottom third of teams in cap space, a relative disadvantage in the free agency market. Also, as a bad team, we need to improve more than most, but because of the cap going up by a projected 11M, less good FA will hit the market. What is going to get them to want to come here? Coach? Ability to compete as a 4th team in a good division? Playoff pedigree? Front office with good rep? Doubt it. Cheesesteaks? Wentz? Maybe. But how much stock will FA put in Wentz's league worst numbers of late. We can't overpay too much because most others can pay more.

These new personnel guys need to be a hell of a lot better than those we had in the past. Also trader Howie needs to be able to trade our trash for someone else's trash that is better than our trash at PON.

For these reasons, this is why I was so hell bent on getting into the playoffs this year. In the markets we need to compete in next year, it matters.



nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 09:44 PM) *
Thanks, mikey. I'll look it over more closely tomorrow.

Read my reply to RF for my overall concerns.

As far as your questions:

1. The dead money does count against the cap. Almost always dead money hits the cap fully in the year a guy was cut or traded, unless if they designate a guy as a June 1st cut ahead of time, or if the guy was traded after June 1st.

If either of these apply, then a portion hits the cap this year and the remaining hits next year. That is why Bradford and Rowe have some carry over of dead money to next year.

You can see the breakdown of dead money in each year.

2. BEWARE OF OVER THE CAP and SPOTRAC, THEY BOTH APPEAR WRONG FOR 2017!

OTC has not included the carry forward of unused 2016 cap to 2017. Also their estimate is 2M less than the 168M talked about. In the Eagles case for 2017, this understates our cap space by 11.5M.

It appears SPOTRAC has forgotten about Bradford's 5.5M of dead money in '17.

Sleeves had an 11M signing bonus which the Eagles had to eat over a two year cap period. They show the 5.5 in '16 but not in '17 dead money. OTC shows it in both.

Anyway, I'll use SPOTRAC corrected for the Bradford oversight and go through some cuts.

'17 Eagles cap as listed on the site = 17.9M
Less Bradford dead money = (5.5M)
= true starting point = 12.4M

No brainer cuts with cap savings ('17 cap less dead money)
Barwin 7.75M
Mathews 4.0M
Kelce 3.8M
Kendricks 1.8M
= Available cap room after cuts of 29.75M

If you are scissor happy, you can also save 3.2M with cutting McKelvin, but my thought is our CB are bad enough. even if he is a solid back up, it may be worth keeping him. maybe not. But I don't think we'll need his money for FA.

You can buy the world with that in FA, but as I mention to RF, we won't get as many takers, but if a guy was only about the money, we could severely overpay a few select ones, but most times the money only guys aren't the best recruits.

3. 2018 will be better than 2017. No need to worry yet. With all the stupid spending we did these last few years, if we have such an easy road back to cap sanity in 2017, it will be fine from that standpoint in 2018, especially with the cap increases. However, I'd start worrying about 2022, that's a killer cap year! tongue.gif

4. Regarding Peters, he won't have to take a pay cut. As big as his contract looks, his average per year of his deal is 11th among tackles, which a little below his caliber of play. Even at this age, I think he's a top 8 OT in the league, and his peers, opposing coaches and fans seem to agree.

More than most years, our improvement will need to come from smart drafting, a few smart trades and good coaching.

The new draft guy, Howie the GM and Pedey the coach? How can we not get it right?

Think about that and sleep well.!!
Joegrane
"This season's salary cap is $155.27 million, so the league is preparing for another $10 million jump in the cap, although the precise figures will not be known until shortly before the league year begins in March."
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1825360...163-165-million

Now, it is actually not as simple as just + $10mil. There are some team-specific issues such as "carry-over".

Sporttrac has the following for the Eagles:

2016
Cap $152 mil
Cap space $9 mil

2017
Cap $160 mil
Cap Space $18mil
( I'm fairly sure this does not include resigning FAs: B Logan $3mil, N Carroll $2.5 mil, B Braman $1mil, and the draft picks; however draft picks don't usually cost more than the players they replace)

Overthecap says the following for the Eagles:

2016
Team Salary Cap: $161,806,117
Team Cap Space: $8,849,003

2017
Team Salary Cap: $166,000,000
Team Cap Space: ($867,312)

I don't understand how OTC's 2017 numbers could be true. If it is accurate that the cap will increase by roughly $10 mil, the Eagles cap should me more like $171 mil plus some optional "carry-over" money from the nearly $9mil in free 2016 cap space.

Re "Carry over". "allows each team to roll over unused cap space from one year to another."
http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/...rryover-numbers

7 Teams Facing Serious Salary Cap Issues in 2017
http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-teams...html/?a=viewall

The Eagles are one of them but they say, "It won’t be easy, but the Eagles’ 2017 salary cap situation is definitely salvageable."

The big question is whether it is "salvageable" enough to allow the Eagles to sign DJax or other good WR?

DJax's cap hit this year was $9mil. I imagine Howie can hide half of that in the first year of a contract.

There are only a few currently signed players with contracts that make them reasonable to cut.

Barwin. $8mil saved ( $.6 mil dead$)
Matthews $4 mil saved (1mil dead)
McKelvin $3.2 mil saved (.25mil dead)
R Brooks $1.5 mil saved (.5 mil dead)
A Barbre $1.8mil saved (.2 mil dead)
J Peters $ 9mil saved (2mil dead) They are not going to cut a future HoF'er
Kelce $4mil saved ( 2mil dead)
Kendricks $2mil saved (5mil dead!)
nephillymike
Joe,

OTC's are wrong.

They didn't carry over this years extra.

Check this for a better breakdown, however this site doesn't have Sleeves dead money of 5.5 M

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

You can see up the very top of the page the cap they are assuming for next year and look at the Eagles and see the 9.5 M carry over into next year.
Joegrane
Thanks, Mike, OTC certainly does not look right. I also previously posted about the Bradford dead $.

I submitted my post just minutes after you submitted yours. I did not notice your post.

Did you forget to add the Eagles FAs: B Logan, N Carroll, B Braman, and the rookies? That could be $10mil.

Didn't you say in the past that J Lurie likes to leave $5mil or so in free cap space?

Overall the early look at the numbers makes me hopeful that the Eagles could find space for DJax but not be able to make a splash in free agency.

I think a player such as DJax could fix a number of problems on the O. Recall how good Nick Foles looked throwing to DJax and company. Defenses had to play Bend but not Break and tried to hold the Eagles to 3pts since DJax is not a good Red Zone target.

Having an O that can sustain drives helps the D with field position and time of poss.

Unfortunately DJax may take less $ to go to a team with a good chance to make a deep playoff run.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 29 2016, 11:19 PM) *
Joe,

OTC's are wrong.

They didn't carry over this years extra.

Check this for a better breakdown, however this site doesn't have Sleeves dead money of 5.5 M

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

You can see up the very top of the page the cap they are assuming for next year and look at the Eagles and see the 9.5 M carry over into next year.

Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 29 2016, 10:24 PM) *
RF, I agree with you that this year was a better opportunity than next but for different reasons.

You think the cap will be a direct problem. It won't be.

A little trimming of the fat and we'll be fine cap wise.

However, we have a relative problem.

Even though I project that we will have 30M of cap room next year and have a much better than most teams 44 players under contract, we still have a problem.

Our seemingly plush cap space figure of 30M, even after we even out for number of players signed, will put us in the bottom third of teams in cap space, a relative disadvantage in the free agency market. Also, as a bad team, we need to improve more than most, but because of the cap going up by a projected 11M, less good FA will hit the market. What is going to get them to want to come here? Coach? Ability to compete as a 4th team in a good division? Playoff pedigree? Front office with good rep? Doubt it. Cheesesteaks? Wentz? Maybe. But how much stock will FA put in Wentz's league worst numbers of late. We can't overpay too much because most others can pay more.

These new personnel guys need to be a hell of a lot better than those we had in the past. Also trader Howie needs to be able to trade our trash for someone else's trash that is better than our trash at PON.

For these reasons, this is why I was so hell bent on getting into the playoffs this year. In the markets we need to compete in next year, it matters.

I disagree that this was the year. New coaches with a rookie leading them and new systems always take time for the players to adjust to. Obvious holes in the secondary and skill positions. Questions at LB.

I haven't looked at how you arrived at 30 mil cap, but I still think history supports that they'll be better off by being selective in FA instead of balls-to-the-wall, aka Dream Team or anything close. Part of the job of the personnel guys is to find the second tier players in FA who can make meaningful contributions in addition to college talent. DBs who don't have to be pro bowlers but can maintain discipline and do a reasonable job of covering, like Carroll, as long as the DL and occasional blitz can pressure the QB. We need a stud WR, a competent CB and a durable RB who will demand defenses to respect the run. If Benny leaves we'll need a DT and assuming Bawin leaves we'll need a pass rusher and assuming Kendricks leaves we'll need a LB. Add depth to the OL and QB and we should be in pretty good shape.

What of that will be cost prohibitive?
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 29 2016, 11:04 PM) *
No brainer cuts with cap savings ('17 cap less dead money)
Barwin 7.75M
Mathews 4.0M
Kelce 3.8M
Kendricks 1.8M
= Available cap room after cuts of 29.75M

Not sure I agree Kelce is a no brainer. Potential, yes. They need to replace him and he's still special pulling and leading runners down field. Other than that, I think we agree in principle on most things. Asking Peters to take a cut would probably be very risky with his temperament. Is there a way to extend him that would benefit the team and save face for the player? I guess your point is taken that it's not needed.
nephillymike
Alert.

SPOTRAC corrected the Bradford ommision.

They're at 12.4M too. It's always concerning when a guy who works 60 hours a week on a job can spot an obvious error the people who work on the site overlook. They are a good site though.

I'm sharpening my pencil for some free agent shopping.

Papa needs a new pair of shoes!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 15 2017, 09:38 PM) *
Alert.

SPOTRAC corrected the Bradford ommision.

They're at 12.4M too. It's always concerning when a guy who works 60 hours a week on a job can spot an obvious error the people who work on the site overlook. They are a good site though.

I'm sharpening my pencil for some free agent shopping.

Papa needs a new pair of shoes!


great...now they are ranked 29th in cap space for 2017.....of course I am sure no other teams have guys they can restructure like the Eagles....having 20 million in cap room means little if everyone else has 40.....it just means you can shop at woolworths (how is that for a throwback?) while everyone is at Bloomingdales
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 15 2017, 11:48 PM) *
great...now they are ranked 29th in cap space for 2017.....of course I am sure no other teams have guys they can restructure like the Eagles....having 20 million in cap room means little if everyone else has 40.....it just means you can shop at woolworths (how is that for a throwback?) while everyone is at Bloomingdales

Except everybody is shopping at Woolworths or Bloomingdales. Having the most salary cap doesn't mean squat if you don't use it effectively. Ever notice that the good teams always seem to have less cap room than the bad teams? Somehow they make it work.
Joegrane
The Eagles' cap situation is not great but it is not as bad as their ranking suggests.

The cap space at sites such as OTC and sporttrac don't include what you have to pay to resign YOUR OWN Free agents!! If you happen to have a few really high priced guys--Fletcher Cox, starting QB--among them, you need lots of cap space.

The Eagles have an unusually short list of FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/philadelphia-eagles/

B Logan is the most expensive of them and some people think the Eagles might move on with a lower priced alternative. N Carroll is next. Most of the others are ST players or will be replaced by rookies draft picks.

In contrast The Cowboys have little cap space and many of their own FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/dallas-cowboys/

I'm less concerned about their cap situation than I am that they were 4th in their own division. It is harder to attract FAs when you are not perceived to be a playoff contender.

The Eagles only have desperate need for one position--WR. They need an outside CB but probably Carroll will be available if they can't find an upgrade. So they don't have many huge areas of need. I don't think their cap situation is terrible.

I can't imagine J Peters will be taking a pay cut. He was a Pro Bowler. He is a potential HoF player that the Eagles don't want to alienate.

Barwin has said he'd be willing to renegotiate. The question is whether the Eagles want him. Does he really fit? I like him but I say, no.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 15 2017, 11:48 PM) *
great...now they are ranked 29th in cap space for 2017.....of course I am sure no other teams have guys they can restructure like the Eagles....having 20 million in cap room means little if everyone else has 40.....it just means you can shop at woolworths (how is that for a throwback?) while everyone is at Bloomingdales

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 15 2017, 11:48 PM) *
great...now they are ranked 29th in cap space for 2017.....of course I am sure no other teams have guys they can restructure like the Eagles....having 20 million in cap room means little if everyone else has 40.....it just means you can shop at woolworths (how is that for a throwback?) while everyone is at Bloomingdales

Woolworths, good one.

They used to have a luncheonette counter where I would be treated to a "black and white" milkshake if I behaved while my Mom went to every store known to mankind during her shopping trips to the avenue.

To this day I hate shopping because of those seemingly never ending shopping excursions.

The two "five and dime" stores were Kresgies (sp.) and Woolworths, but Woolworths had to luncheonette.

If our FA are as good as those milkshakes, we'll be fine.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 16 2017, 04:55 PM) *
The Eagles' cap situation is not great but it is not as bad as their ranking suggests.

The cap space at sites such as OTC and sporttrac don't include what you have to pay to resign YOUR OWN Free agents!! If you happen to have a few really high priced guys--Fletcher Cox, starting QB--among them, you need lots of cap space.

The Eagles have an unusually short list of FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/philadelphia-eagles/

B Logan is the most expensive of them and some people think the Eagles might move on with a lower priced alternative. N Carroll is next. Most of the others are ST players or will be replaced by rookies draft picks.

In contrast The Cowboys have little cap space and many of their own FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/dallas-cowboys/

I'm less concerned about their cap situation than I am that they were 4th in their own division. It is harder to attract FAs when you are not perceived to be a playoff contender.

The Eagles only have desperate need for one position--WR. They need an outside CB but probably Carroll will be available if they can't find an upgrade. So they don't have many huge areas of need. I don't think their cap situation is terrible.

I can't imagine J Peters will be taking a pay cut. He was a Pro Bowler. He is a potential HoF player that the Eagles don't want to alienate.

Barwin has said he'd be willing to renegotiate. The question is whether the Eagles want him. Does he really fit? I like him but I say, no.


lol...You are cracking me up...most teams, as in almost the entire rest of the league don't have our cap problems....the Cowboys have more cap space and less holes to fill. Cutting guys to create cap room does what? Creates need at another position. Even doing that only moves them up a few slots and that is before other teams do the same thing.

If you think that the Eagles do not have a cap crisis you really don't have a firm grasp on the cap and the league. They are in a very difficult spot.....no matter how you slice it.
Zero
Here's the way I look at it:
  • What are the team's biggest needs?
  • How much will they cost?
  • How much do they have to spend?
I'm guessing they only need to sign two FAs and they don't need to be tier 1 players. They need a CB and a WR who will be reliable but not necessarily spectacular players, tier 2. This will give the team the freedom to draft BPA at PON. They've said they want to build through the draft. The draft is supposed to be deep in CBs, DEs and RBs. A solid WR should be available to them in either round 1 or 2. How much will they need to spend in FA to sign a WR and a CB? Do they have that? There's also the possibility of a player-for-player trade, maybe for a player with a year or two left on his rookie contract.

They don't need a lot of cap room, only enough to get 2 or 3 decent young players.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 16 2017, 07:51 PM) *
Here's the way I look at it:
  • What are the team's biggest needs?
  • How much will they cost?
  • How much do they have to spend?
I'm guessing they only need to sign two FAs and they don't need to be tier 1 players. They need a CB and a WR who will be reliable but not necessarily spectacular players, tier 2. This will give the team the freedom to draft BPA at PON. They've said they want to build through the draft. The draft is supposed to be deep in CBs, DEs and RBs. A solid WR should be available to them in either round 1 or 2. How much will they need to spend in FA to sign a WR and a CB? Do they have that? There's also the possibility of a player-for-player trade, maybe for a player with a year or two left on his rookie contract.

They don't need a lot of cap room, only enough to get 2 or 3 decent young players.


the problem is supply and demand...simple economics.....2-3 decent players will be what most teams are looking for....great for the players...not so great for the Eagles who will be shopping with a small wallet. That is the rub.....decent players will be grossly overpaid by teams with bigger wallets and the guys we sign will be the type that we bitched about this year which is why they are available to sign. I guess where you lose me is how you see all the teams above us in cap room and think 1) they don't have the same ability to create cap space that the Eagles do and 2) how the Eagles have a better negotiating platform that the 90% of the league that has more and in most cases ridiculously more cap space than the Eagles.
Joegrane
RF, I tend to agree with you much more often than I disagree with you, but not on this one.

The Eagles' only "crisis" need is WR. They have a big need at outside CB but at least N Carroll is likely to be available as a poor man's solution. So the Eagles don't need to spend a pile of $ on FAs.

The Eagles have surprisingly few of their own players who are unrestricted FAs and none are going to get big paydays.

The Cowboys don't have muchcap space, but the Eagles have more according to
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ (sort by Cap Space)

Of the Cowboy's top ten cap hits next year only ROT D Free, J Witten and S Lee could be cut to save cap space. What are those chances?

In contrast, C Barwin could be cut with M Smith and V Curry getting increases in snaps. Presumably another DE will be added via draft.

Furthermore the Cowboy's list of their own FAs is much longer and pricier than the Eagles very small list.

I understand your point that other teams will have more $ to overspend, however, not all of them are in markets where they will want to overspend. Some of them are not attractive destinations for FAs. Also the Eagles only have two positions where they need to overspend.

Until I hear something from you more than the above point, the Eagles are not in terrible cap shape. They appear to have $ to plug their biggest two holes with FAs. The other holes can be filled with players on the roster or rookies.

I'm not suggesting that the result will be a team with a playoff W next year, just that they should be a playoff contender, something like the Skins were this year.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2017, 07:00 PM) *
lol...You are cracking me up...most teams, as in almost the entire rest of the league don't have our cap problems....the Cowboys have more cap space and less holes to fill. Cutting guys to create cap room does what? Creates need at another position. Even doing that only moves them up a few slots and that is before other teams do the same thing.

If you think that the Eagles do not have a cap crisis you really don't have a firm grasp on the cap and the league. They are in a very difficult spot.....no matter how you slice it.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 16 2017, 08:43 PM) *
RF, I tend to agree with you much more often than I disagree with you, but not on this one.

The Eagles' only "crisis" need is WR. They have a big need at outside CB but at least N Carroll is likely to be available as a poor man's solution. So the Eagles don't need to spend a pile of $ on FAs.

The Eagles have surprisingly few of their own players who are unrestricted FAs and none are going to get big paydays.

The Cowboys don't have muchcap space, but the Eagles have more according to
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ (sort by Cap Space)

Of the Cowboy's top ten cap hits next year only ROT D Free, J Witten and S Lee could be cut to save cap space. What are those chances?

In contrast, C Barwin could be cut with M Smith and V Curry getting increases in snaps. Presumably another DE will be added via draft.

Furthermore the Cowboy's list of their own FAs is much longer and pricier than the Eagles very small list.

I understand your point that other teams will have more $ to overspend, however, not all of them are in markets where they will want to overspend. Some of them are not attractive destinations for FAs. Also the Eagles only have two positions where they need to overspend.

Until I hear something from you more than the above point, the Eagles are not in terrible cap shape. They appear to have $ to plug their biggest two holes with FAs. The other holes can be filled with players on the roster or rookies.

I'm not suggesting that the result will be a team with a playoff W next year, just that they should be a playoff contender, something like the Skins were this year.



First...you keep citing the Cowboys...they have few holes and they won't be looking for a WR or CB so your point there is moot.

2nd....Romo will be gone next year and so will Doug Free....they don't need cap room at all but they will have a little...

So look at what teams need a WR of a CB and tell me how many have less room than the Eagles....it won't take long.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2017, 08:18 PM) *
the problem is supply and demand...simple economics.....2-3 decent players will be what most teams are looking for....great for the players...not so great for the Eagles who will be shopping with a small wallet. That is the rub.....decent players will be grossly overpaid by teams with bigger wallets and the guys we sign will be the type that we bitched about this year which is why they are available to sign. I guess where you lose me is how you see all the teams above us in cap room and think 1) they don't have the same ability to create cap space that the Eagles do and 2) how the Eagles have a better negotiating platform that the 90% of the league that has more and in most cases ridiculously more cap space than the Eagles.

Normally tier 2 players aren't signed until after the first week or so ... right? Most teams with lots of cap space will probably be looking for tier 1 players because they presumably will have more impact and the team can afford them. Move on the tier 2 players you've targeted right away while the deep pockets are fighting over the big boys. Maybe it's as much about timing as it is money. How did the cap strapped Eagles get McLeod and Brooks last year?
nephillymike
I need to look at it in detail, but you need to account for how many players are under contract for that cap.

We might not have as many players to sign.

I agree wit ash Joe.

While not ideal, when you clear our cap cuts and others do the same, and then the others sign the numbers to get up to the number of players we have signed, then it won't be too bad.
Joegrane
No, the problem is not simple supply and demand.

Every year someone takes less $ to play for a contender, or to work in a system that is a better fit, or where he is going to get more playing time, or with a QB or other player who suits his liking.

The Browns have over 100mil$ in cap space but it does not make much difference. Who really wants to play there? They are not a big market team so the owner is not actually going to spend a huge amount of $.

Teams have to decide how they will split their pie--the cap space.

One team has a modest size pie but they have only a couple low to mid-level FAs on their own team to sign and have their eye on just one high priced FA from another team. This goal is within their cap space.

A second team plenty of cap space and a high priced FA from another team in their sights, but they also have to resign one of their own high priced FAs and several other mid priced FAs.

They are two teams with different sized pies and plans to split it very differently.

The two teams might actually have similar $ available to bid on the outside high priced FA.

Finally Philly might be a little more desirable for DJax than one would expect for a 4th placed team. He might still have a couple of friends on the team. He knows that the fans like him. He may like the city and can continue to add to his numbers as one of the All-time Eagles WRs. He might like to retire as an Eagle. He knows it is a big market team with nice opportunities to make extra $ doing commercials, etc. He knows he'll come into a situation where he'll see many balls thrown his way. He may like the QB. His wife/girlfriend may like Philly. Occasionally you'll hear an analyst say the player's agent recently did a big deal with that team and has a reputation for having a good relationship with that team's GM.

There are many factors involved.

QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 16 2017, 09:24 PM) *
Normally tier 2 players aren't signed until after the first week or so ... right? Most teams with lots of cap space will probably be looking for tier 1 players because they presumably will have more impact and the team can afford them. Move on the tier 2 players you've targeted right away while the deep pockets are fighting over the big boys. Maybe it's as much about timing as it is money. How did the cap strapped Eagles get McLeod and Brooks last year?


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2017, 08:18 PM) *
the problem is supply and demand...simple economics.....
Reality Fan
I see this takes a bit more than asking others to actually research what they think is right....

The Eagles are ranked 29th....3 teams are ranked below them...the Chiefs, the Jets and the Cowboys.

The Eagles have 52 players under contract...that number goes down after cutting players to clear cap room. The Ravens are the next closest team with just under 20 million in cap space and 1 less player under contract. In other words the Ravens start with 1 less player under contract by 8 million more in cap space.

Now on to the next big issues...players under contract....The Eagles rank 11th...above them only 2 teams have less cap room and 6 have more than 25 million MORE cap room....and none of them are the Browns....3 were in the playoffs and 3 are close.....do you think the Vikes may look at WR? The 7 teams below the Eagles but with 50 players under contract have 5 teams with more than 25 million more in cap space than the Eagles.....you think none of these teams need a CB or WR? and that is all before cutting anyone to clear cap room.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

Now tell me again minus the meaningless Cowboys or Browns example.....
Joegrane
quote 'Reality Fan'

"The Eagles are ranked 29th....3 teams are ranked below them...the Chiefs, the Jets and the Cowboys.

Yes, but there is actually a big difference in cap space between the Eagles 12.5mil cap space and the Chief's 4mil--according to Sporttrac's #s.

"The Eagles have 52 players under contract...that number goes down after cutting players to clear cap room. The Ravens are the next closest team with just under 20 million in cap space and 1 less player under contract. In other words the Ravens start with 1 less player under contract by 8 million more in cap space.

"Now on to the next big issues...players under contract....The Eagles rank 11th...above them only 2 teams have less cap room and 6 have more than 25 million MORE cap room....and none of them are the Browns....3 were in the playoffs and 3 are close.....do you think the Vikes may look at WR? The 7 teams below the Eagles but with 50 players under contract have 5 teams with more than 25 million more in cap space than the Eagles.....you think none of these teams need a CB or WR? and that is all before cutting anyone to clear cap room.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

No, the big issue is the *cost* of the players. The *number* of players is almost irrelevant in contrast to the *salary* of those players. Having to fill one starting QB position could cost as much as the combined cost of the bottom 15 players on a team's roster.

How does your point above trump my point about cap space + the price of replacing or resigning your own FAs + cost of FAs to fill your big needs?

In addition to that, one must also consider high priced vets who could be fairly easily cut without incurring significant dead $ and damage to the talent of the team. For example, cutting C Barwin will save roughly 6 mil and due to the presence of Curry and M Smith. He will likely be replaced by a rookie or other low cost backup who is a better fit for the scheme. R Matthew's 2 mil or so in savings is likely a similar situation. I expect or hope he'll be replaced by a much less expensive 2nd or 3rd round pick.

The Vikings are a good example since they could use talent at WR and are a playoff contender with a patched up O Line and healthy A Peterson. Their list of FAs is MUCH more expensive to replace or resign than the Eagles tiny list. It includes both of their veteran CBs and two OTs!
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...nesota-vikings/

In contrast, I would be surprised if any team has a less expensive list of FA's to replace or resign than the Eagles tiny list.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...delphia-eagles/

Chicago is probably a good team for us to consider since they have one of the most desirable FA WRs.

They have 60 mil in cap space, and other than A Jeffries, no big ticket FAs. Please correct me if I failed to recognize a budding star among their FAs.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/chicago-bears/

They are a big market team with plenty of $ to spend and are attractive for their big market endorsements. However as a cellar dwelling team in a strong division and without a star QB, will Jeffrey want to sign long term or look for a playoff contender with a quality QB?

I bet Jeffries takes less $ to play for a strong playoff contender who has a quality QB. With his current $14mil price tag I don't expect the Eagles to be his landing spot.

WRs who played in 2016 in less desirable situations include:

Percy Harvin, age 28, Bills, former 1 round pick

The Rams have two FA WRs:

Brian Quick, age 27, 2nd rounder
Kenny Britt, age 28, late 1st rounder

Of course DJax is thought to be on the cutting block in DC. They have 65+ mil cap space but a very pricey list of FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...ngton-redskins/

Cutting R Matthews and C Barwin and replacing them with rookies would likely pay for DJax.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-reds...0/market-value/
nephillymike
As far as our cap space goes, we can

Cut Kelce, Barwin, Mathews and Kendricks

Sign Alston Jefferey, and either Gilmore or Bouie to market deals

Resign Logan to a market deal

And sign our entire 2017 rookie class to their allocated cap

And still have almost 6 mill of cap leftover.

That will allow us to draft the best WR, CB and RB and any other four spots we deem the need.

Details tomorrow, but rest easy people it is very doable.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 18 2017, 12:17 AM) *
As far as our cap space goes, we can

Cut Kelce, Barwin, Mathews and Kendricks

Sign Alston Jefferey, and either Gilmore or Bouie to market deals

Resign Logan to a market deal

And sign our entire 2017 rookie class to their allocated cap

And still have almost 6 mill of cap leftover.

That will allow us to draft the best WR, CB and RB and any other four spots we deem the need.

Details tomorrow, but rest easy people it is very doable.



Hahah?..Market deals? How do you know what the market will be when everyone shopping has more money to spend.

That is what you seem to ignore......at an auction you don't get things for what you want...you get them for what other people are unwilling to pay.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 17 2017, 11:53 PM) *
quote 'Reality Fan'

"The Eagles are ranked 29th....3 teams are ranked below them...the Chiefs, the Jets and the Cowboys.

Yes, but there is actually a big difference in cap space between the Eagles 12.5mil cap space and the Chief's 4mil--according to Sporttrac's #s.

"The Eagles have 52 players under contract...that number goes down after cutting players to clear cap room. The Ravens are the next closest team with just under 20 million in cap space and 1 less player under contract. In other words the Ravens start with 1 less player under contract by 8 million more in cap space.

"Now on to the next big issues...players under contract....The Eagles rank 11th...above them only 2 teams have less cap room and 6 have more than 25 million MORE cap room....and none of them are the Browns....3 were in the playoffs and 3 are close.....do you think the Vikes may look at WR? The 7 teams below the Eagles but with 50 players under contract have 5 teams with more than 25 million more in cap space than the Eagles.....you think none of these teams need a CB or WR? and that is all before cutting anyone to clear cap room.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/

No, the big issue is the *cost* of the players. The *number* of players is almost irrelevant in contrast to the *salary* of those players. Having to fill one starting QB position could cost as much as the combined cost of the bottom 15 players on a team's roster.

How does your point above trump my point about cap space + the price of replacing or resigning your own FAs + cost of FAs to fill your big needs?

In addition to that, one must also consider high priced vets who could be fairly easily cut without incurring significant dead $ and damage to the talent of the team. For example, cutting C Barwin will save roughly 6 mil and due to the presence of Curry and M Smith. He will likely be replaced by a rookie or other low cost backup who is a better fit for the scheme. R Matthew's 2 mil or so in savings is likely a similar situation. I expect or hope he'll be replaced by a much less expensive 2nd or 3rd round pick.

The Vikings are a good example since they could use talent at WR and are a playoff contender with a patched up O Line and healthy A Peterson. Their list of FAs is MUCH more expensive to replace or resign than the Eagles tiny list. It includes both of their veteran CBs and two OTs!
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...nesota-vikings/

In contrast, I would be surprised if any team has a less expensive list of FA's to replace or resign than the Eagles tiny list.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...delphia-eagles/

Chicago is probably a good team for us to consider since they have one of the most desirable FA WRs.

They have 60 mil in cap space, and other than A Jeffries, no big ticket FAs. Please correct me if I failed to recognize a budding star among their FAs.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/chicago-bears/

They are a big market team with plenty of $ to spend and are attractive for their big market endorsements. However as a cellar dwelling team in a strong division and without a star QB, will Jeffrey want to sign long term or look for a playoff contender with a quality QB?

I bet Jeffries takes less $ to play for a strong playoff contender who has a quality QB. With his current $14mil price tag I don't expect the Eagles to be his landing spot.

WRs who played in 2016 in less desirable situations include:

Percy Harvin, age 28, Bills, former 1 round pick

The Rams have two FA WRs:

Brian Quick, age 27, 2nd rounder
Kenny Britt, age 28, late 1st rounder

Of course DJax is thought to be on the cutting block in DC. They have 65+ mil cap space but a very pricey list of FAs to resign or replace.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all...ngton-redskins/

Cutting R Matthews and C Barwin and replacing them with rookies would likely pay for DJax.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-reds...0/market-value/



Again...you look at conveniet examples but unless you look at the 15 or so teams I mentioned your point is moot....but take the Vikes....they pay their CB Munnerlyn....takes a top FA CB off the market and eats up some cap room but it doesn't eat up a lot in the first year unless you have an idiot negotiating....but again...you point to a team that will likely not target who we want.

The Texans have a CB to sign but Wilfork is not expensive anymore at DT.
The Rams will likely Kenny Britt walk because he will be in demand and won't be cheap and they may let Johnson walk but if they don't they can make his first year palatable.
What about the Saints?
The Skins? They will pay Cousins but Garcon? Jackson? They have the room for both and the rest of their FA aren't much and they have a ton of room. Their own beat guys, besides mentioning that the 2017 FA class is one of the worst in memory, think they might even try to keep Jackson and Garcon.
The Cardinals will be in the hunt to replace the drunk they cut....and they have money....they have Jones and Cambell to replace but lots of money and guys they can move on from to free up more.

Should I keep going?

To sit back and say the Eagles are in good shape without examining all of the teams they will compete against for the supply in a weak market ignores a vital element.

The Eagles will need to sign Logan or someone to replace him....Barwin will go but need to be replaced. Carroll signed or replaced and he will be in a good position to get more money, not less. 2017 is a bad year for FA quality which means average guys will get good money.

What is really funny is to have people say the Eagles are in good shape while their GM says the exact opposite.

nephillymike
The GM perspective is his history, except for last year until traded Sleeves, of having 10-15% of unused cap sitting around.

When you draft poorly, and if your desire to compete is sincere, you lose the luxury of years past.

Your point of teams resigning their current FA is a valid one. This market could dry up b/c of that, but I think we'll have a fair shake at those who make it to market.

As far as market value, SPOTRAC has a good link for certain players that accounts for market forces. It's a good barometer.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 18 2017, 06:22 AM) *
The GM perspective is his history, except for last year until traded Sleeves, of having 10-15% of unused cap sitting around.

When you draft poorly, and if your desire to compete is sincere, you lose the luxury of years past.

Your point of teams resigning their current FA is a valid one. This market could dry up b/c of that, but I think we'll have a fair shake at those who make it to market.

As far as market value, SPOTRAC has a good link for certain players that accounts for market forces. It's a good barometer.


I am not saying that the Eagles won't be able to sign FAs at all......I am only saying that they will likely be able only to bid on the same caliber of player that we bitched about this year.....and market value on spotrac is formulated by numbers from previous years and is not indicative of current market forces namely low supply of quality FAs and an abundance of available cap space for a large number of teams.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 18 2017, 12:49 AM) *
What is really funny is to have people say the Eagles are in good shape while their GM says the exact opposite.

Other than the fact that GM's can never be believed. Carry on. laugh.gif
Phits
It's not an auction. You make the incorrect assumption that a FA makes a decision solely on who will pay them the most.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 18 2017, 12:23 AM) *
Hahah?..Market deals? How do you know what the market will be when everyone shopping has more money to spend.

That is what you seem to ignore......at an auction you don't get things for what you want...you get them for what other people are unwilling to pay.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 18 2017, 04:27 PM) *
It's not an auction. You make the incorrect assumption that a FA makes a decision solely on who will pay them the most.


No...you are right....players regularly settle for less money...said no one ever.....the player that signs somewhere for less money is the huge exception. Players often say "I could have signed elsewhere for more money" except they couldn't. they say that for their ego and some fools believe them sometimes. It has happened that a player has signed with a contender for less money but it is so ridiculously rare. I am a little stunned, to be honest. Signing a professional player in any sport is always an auction except in the new bizarro world of the NBA.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 18 2017, 02:36 PM) *
Other than the fact that GM's can never be believed. Carry on. laugh.gif



lol....ok...the GM and the beat writers too....I had to laugh...there was an article on Philly.com where the headline said how the Eagles were rolling over 7 million into next year.....and then said that they were already over the cap so that money was already spent and they would make cuts to clear cap space and that the Eagles would have to deal with....wait for it...."tight cap space"...

If folks want to think that the Eagles cap situation is rosy, have at it....
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 18 2017, 08:16 PM) *
No...you are right....players regularly settle for less money...said no one ever.....the player that signs somewhere for less money is the huge exception. Players often say "I could have signed elsewhere for more money" except they couldn't. they say that for their ego and some fools believe them sometimes. It has happened that a player has signed with a contender for less money but it is so ridiculously rare. I am a little stunned, to be honest. Signing a professional player in any sport is always an auction except in the new bizarro world of the NBA.

So you're saying that almost every FA would sign with a struggling franchise because they offered the most money?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 18 2017, 08:23 PM) *
So you're saying that almost every FA would sign with a struggling franchise because they offered the most money?


Yes, I am not only saying it, it is what happens. And for a a pretty good reason. These guys have short shelf lives and they need to get whatever they can. Are you saying that god actually spoke to Reggie White and said sign with Green Bay or do you realize that Green Bay offered him the most money?

While the pursuit of a championship is noble it a fantasy....even in the NBA.....Lebron made a fortune going to Miami outside of basketball, all 3 did and that money paid to NBA players is so insanely different from the NFL it is sickening. Terrible players make 15 million per.

It is always about the money and it should be, it is a job for these guys
Joegrane
Reggie W might have taken less $ just to get out of town. Recall the Eagles lost a lot of talent after Buddy Ryan was fired. E Allen and S Joyner went to the Raiders, no? TE K Jackson went to GB as well, no?

Re: "they need to get whatever they can."

The poor, destitute, NFL football players. I understand that when someone is offering millions more than the other teams, it will be hard to resist the more expensive offer. However, I bet teams typically know approximately what the player is worth. I bet the offers are usually not terribly different. In those cases many other factors go into the decision process.

You talk like an agent who wants the guy to get the contract with the most $ for selfish reasons.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 18 2017, 08:42 PM) *
Yes, I am not only saying it, it is what happens. And for a a pretty good reason. These guys have short shelf lives and they need to get whatever they can. Are you saying that god actually spoke to Reggie White and said sign with Green Bay or do you realize that Green Bay offered him the most money?

While the pursuit of a championship is noble it a fantasy....even in the NBA.....Lebron made a fortune going to Miami outside of basketball, all 3 did and that money paid to NBA players is so insanely different from the NFL it is sickening. Terrible players make 15 million per.

It is always about the money and it should be, it is a job for these guys

Phits
I believe that you're mistaken. While money may play a large factor, a player doesn't necessarily choose a team because the franchise is willing/able to pay them the most. Like you said "it is a job for these guys", and like any person seeking employment the deciding factor isn't always about the money.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 18 2017, 08:42 PM) *
Yes, I am not only saying it, it is what happens. And for a a pretty good reason. These guys have short shelf lives and they need to get whatever they can. Are you saying that god actually spoke to Reggie White and said sign with Green Bay or do you realize that Green Bay offered him the most money?

While the pursuit of a championship is noble it a fantasy....even in the NBA.....Lebron made a fortune going to Miami outside of basketball, all 3 did and that money paid to NBA players is so insanely different from the NFL it is sickening. Terrible players make 15 million per.

It is always about the money and it should be, it is a job for these guys

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Jan 19 2017, 11:10 AM) *
I believe that you're mistaken. While money may play a large factor, a player doesn't necessarily choose a team because the franchise is willing/able to pay them the most. Like you said "it is a job for these guys", and like any person seeking employment the deciding factor isn't always about the money.



Ok....you can believe that if you like....in the NFL there may be one ore 2 guys who may do that the simple facts are that FAs go to wherever they can get a contract and whoever gives them the best contract. It is a job and unlike you and I these guys have to think in the short term about who gives them more now because they are one injury or a better player away from bring unemployed....when we look at a job we look at benefits, advancement and longevity as well as initial compensation, these guys all get the same benefits. It is all about the money except for a very few exceptions.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 19 2017, 03:55 PM) *
Ok....you can believe that if you like....in the NFL there may be one ore 2 guys who may do that the simple facts are that FAs go to wherever they can get a contract and whoever gives them the best contract. It is a job and unlike you and I these guys have to think in the short term about who gives them more now because they are one injury or a better player away from bring unemployed....when we look at a job we look at benefits, advancement and longevity as well as initial compensation, these guys all get the same benefits. It is all about the money except for a very few exceptions.

Is it reasonable to assume that the teams that are flush with cap space will offer FA's more in money in contracts than the teams that are not as flush wit cap space?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 19 2017, 07:56 PM) *
Is it reasonable to assume that the teams that are flush with cap space will offer FA's more in money in contracts than the teams that are not as flush wit cap space?


I think it is only rational to think that teams with more cap space will offer desirable FAs (and that is the key adjective) more money in FA than those with less cap space. The key is looking at those team with cap space and then identifying what their needs are. The problem the Eagles have is twofold. First, they will be in the bottom half of the league with available cap space even after purging 5-6 players. Second, this is a very weak FA class which means those they have a likely shot at signing will not be much of an improvement over what they already have. There is a third issue, the guys that they purge will need to be replaced and they can try to do that on the cheap which will still eat up some of the cap space they clear or they can try to draft to do it and, judging from their draft record, will mean that next year will be a very painful year.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 20 2017, 02:37 AM) *
I think it is only rational to think that teams with more cap space will offer desirable FAs (and that is the key adjective) more money in FA than those with less cap space. The key is looking at those team with cap space and then identifying what their needs are. The problem the Eagles have is twofold. First, they will be in the bottom half of the league with available cap space even after purging 5-6 players. Second, this is a very weak FA class which means those they have a likely shot at signing will not be much of an improvement over what they already have. There is a third issue, the guys that they purge will need to be replaced and they can try to do that on the cheap which will still eat up some of the cap space they clear or they can try to draft to do it and, judging from their draft record, will mean that next year will be a very painful year.

I'm not a numbers guy, but from everything I've read the Eagles appear to have enough cap space to overpay for a player or two if needed. Before cuts, Sportrac has them at $10,837,226. Cutting Barwin would add $7,750,000, Kelce $3,800,000, Mathews $4,000,000, McKelvin $3,200,000 and Smith $1,483,515 raising the number to $31,070,741. Allow about $7,000,000 for rookies, that gives them roughly $27,000,000 to spend. How much would be needed to sign a good CB and a good WR?

It's not a given that a FA will sign for the most money although it's admittedly a prime factor. Players will be influenced by coaches, a feel for the organization, systems as well as the money. New England will probably be the most likely team to attract players because of their continued success and players will probably take less to go there than to Chicago or San Francisco. Dallas is in bad cap shape. Teams like Tampa, Tennessee and Oakland are up-and-coming teams and will probably also be attractive. Philadelphia may fit in that group too. Washington has a QB question.

The GM has something to do with it too, his relationship with a player's agent can impact a decision. The GM is not only a negotiator, he's a salesman. Players want money but most also want success, national recognition and an opportunity for sports immortality.

As far as the Eagles are concerned, they may want to shop for second tier players during what is normally the first tier buying time even though rumors are that they could be interested in Jeffrey despite his PED issue. Mostly, somewhat overpay for a solid contributor who isn't getting attention and look for the super star in the draft. Although their draft history isn't comforting, they have new people doing the work even if Roseman has final say. Status quo isn't a given.
Reality Fan
Cutting Barwin means the need to sign another DE. Cutting Kelce means adding depth to the O line at Center and there is no clear cut successor on the roster. Matthews is likely done anyway but that means they need to sign a RB....there is no clear heir apparent on the team. McKelvin will create hole number 2 at CB since Carroll is also a FA.

I think that there is an assumption that the Eagles are in a unique position to cut players to clear cap space and that their actions occur in a vacuum. That is not the case.. And there is the odd player here or there that signs with a team like the Pats for less money but it is rare, so rare that to suggest the Eagles find a solid contributor via that highway is laughable. The Eagles are likely to be a mediocre team next year. They have a 2nd year coach who was much maligned by the city's own fanbase but some how that will be attractive to FAs who will leave money on the table to jump at the chance to play here?

That logic is perplexing in its application to the Eagles....pray for the greatest draft in the history of the draft.
Joegrane
quote 'Reality Fan'
"Cutting Barwin means the need to sign another DE.

Yes, but because of the presence of M Smith and especially V Curry, it does not have to be a veteran FA. They will save $ here.

"Cutting Kelce means adding depth to the O line at Center and there is no clear cut successor on the roster.

I'm not fond of cutting Kelce. Wasn't he well into top 10 in Pro Bowl voting? Some think Seumalo's best NFL position will eventually be at C.


"Matthews is likely done anyway but that means they need to sign a RB....there is no clear heir apparent on the team.

I'm sad about that. I like him--except his injuries and inopportune fumbles. I assume they'll cut him but I'm hopeful he'll resign a contract for a lead role in a RB by committee situation. Hopefully he'll stay healthier that way but will still be available for short yardage and especially Red Zone situations. His speed to the pylons is quite an asset along with his power.

Because of the presence of Sproles and Smallwood, they could draft an "NFL-ready" RB expecting him to get significant number of snaps. It would not be ideal, especially for blitz pickup but probably would not kill them.

" McKelvin will create hole number 2 at CB since Carroll is also a FA.

Also McKelvin knows Schwartz's system quite. He'd be a nice tutor for a 1st or 2nd round rookie CB. The rookie would get some snaps, helping the 30+ yr old to stay fresh.

"I think that there is an assumption that the Eagles are in a unique position to cut players to clear cap space and that their actions occur in a vacuum. That is not the case..

I suspect the most unusual situation about the Eagles is the few number of their own FAs that have to be resigned. Some think the highest price of them, B Logan, will not be resigned. If Cox stays healthy, that should not be a huge loss. I assume he'll be replaced by B Allen, D Vaeao and a rookie.


" And there is the odd player here or there that signs with a team like the Pats for less money but it is rare, so rare that to suggest the Eagles find a solid contributor via that highway is laughable.

My impression is that they have the $ to sign such a WR and resign N Carroll or a slight upgrade, of course after cutting Barwin, and Matthews and not resigning Logan.

" The Eagles are likely to be a mediocre team next year.

I think they might take another step forward and be a solid playoff contender like the Skins were this year.

"They have a 2nd year coach who was much maligned by the city's own fanbase but some how that will be attractive to FAs who will leave money on the table to jump at the chance to play here?

How much does that matter to a FA? He's a "player's coach". He comes from Andy R's pass-happy offensive tree. Your telling me that won't be attractive to a WR?

It depends on the alternative teams and the amount of $ on the table! Will a WR choose the Browns over the Eagles?

The Rams are a really good team to consider since they have two FA WRs. Will those FAs prefer a situation there to the one here? CW has shown more promise in year 1 than J Goff. The Eagles have two former NFL QBs as coaches and a West Coast offense that likes to pass. They should have an above average pass blocking line. It is a team and city desperate for a WR in a big market with an owner historically willing to spend some $. The Eagles beat some playoff teams this year and could be better next year, especially with a real outside WR.

So if the $ is similar, the Eagles should be attractive. I'm not talking about a guy taking 1 mil less to come here and I'm not talking about the Eagles getting one of the top FA WRs.

You know I'm fond of the idea of resigning DJax even though I was not a huge DJax fan when he was here. If one site is correct that he'll go for around $7mil average per year over 3 years, it seems the Eagles will have the $ to do that. The Eagles situation should be able to attract him somewhat; however, I could understand if a borderline playoff team with desperate WR need overpays and he chooses them.

The Eagles are not in really good shape in free agency but should be able to fill their biggest needs with mid level or low-mid level talent.

"That logic is perplexing in its application to the Eagles....pray for the greatest draft in the history of the draft.

I don't disagree with the latter comment. They need to hit on a few starting-caliber players to help them with their cap.

Remember the Eagles should get some cap relief next year. They loose the $6 or so mil in dead $ from S Bradford and E Rowe. C Daniel's contract becomes such that they could cut him without too much dead$. B Celek, M Kendricks and McKelvin will likely be gone, maybe J Peters too.

That may give Howie the ability to move more of a FA's cap hit to 2018; however, as you wrote, they need to draft well to have adequate low-cost replacements in 2018 and beyond.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.