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Zero
There's an argument that RB is a top need for the Eagles, but the top need? Gowton makes the point on how Elliot changed the Cowboys, especially with a rookie QB. I have to wonder if Dak would have been nearly as good without Elliot and that OL.

When the Eagles' OL is healthy they're not bad and can actually be pretty good. Peters still has gas in the tank, LJ just showed how important he is to the line, Brooks is still coming into his own, Barbre is proving to be a good (not great) G and Kelce has his ups and downs. It's a good line and the depth is improving.

Mathews is a good RB ... when he's healthy and holding on to the ball, but I'm betting he's gone. It seems run blocking is the strength of the OL with the possible exception of Kelce. An almost-Elliot running behind a good OL can not only take pressure off of Wentz but can also make the receivers look better. That's not saying an upgrade there is necessary.

Supposedly a strong RB class. Adds to BPA at PON with WR and CB in first three rounds, IMO.
Linc ...
Dreagon
Just be sure and get the right one for your offense.
Rick
I still don't think RB is as big a priority these days. The Eagles' running game could be better but most of their problems have come from a line that has struggled to block for the run on a regular basis. The Cowboys have the best OL in the NFL. I think you could put any serviceable RB behind it and get 1,000 yards. Elliot is special but I don't believe a special RB is what wins a Superbowl these days.

Their top priority is to get people who can get open and catch the ball for Wentz and improve the OL to protect him and give the RBs they do have a chance to run rather than getting tackled behind the LOS or at the LOS. How often is Elliot hit behind/at the LOS for Dallas?

Defense needs to step up its game and get pressure and get better at covering people. The defense is what I was most disappointed with this season. I expected the offense to struggle. I also expected the defense to be better than it was.
Joegrane
I very much agree with you.

That is why I hope the Eagles find a good outside CB in Round 1 and select their RB in Round 2 or 3. I'd be okay with them passing on a RB in Round 2 and instead selecting a run stopping DE to complement Curry. I'm assuming Barwin will not be be back.

Although I'd like to have Matthews back I understand that it is not likely. I've not been a big fan of DJax but if he is willing to accept a role in the slot as his straight ling speed declines, I'd be okay with the $ spent on him.

I believe some of the success that McCoy and the Eagles had in the running game was due to the threat of the deep passing game. Restoring some semblance of a deep threat will help the run game and also CW.

Dallas had a mess at RB last year. They might have done almost as well by taking a defensive player in Round 1 and selecting a solid, but unspectacular RB in Round 2 or 3.

QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 29 2016, 11:10 AM) *
I still don't think RB is as big a priority these days. The Eagles' running game could be better but most of their problems have come from a line that has struggled to block for the run on a regular basis. The Cowboys have the best OL in the NFL. I think you could put any serviceable RB behind it and get 1,000 yards. Elliot is special but I don't believe a special RB is what wins a Superbowl these days.

Their top priority is to get people who can get open and catch the ball for Wentz and improve the OL to protect him and give the RBs they do have a chance to run rather than getting tackled behind the LOS or at the LOS. How often is Elliot hit behind/at the LOS for Dallas?

Defense needs to step up its game and get pressure and get better at covering people. The defense is what I was most disappointed with this season. I expected the offense to struggle. I also expected the defense to be better than it was.

SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 09:56 AM) *
There's an argument that RB is a top need for the Eagles, but the top need? Gowton makes the point on how Elliot changed the Cowboys, especially with a rookie QB. I have to wonder if Dak would have been nearly as good without Elliot and that OL.

When the Eagles' OL is healthy they're not bad and can actually be pretty good. Peters still has gas in the tank, LJ just showed how important he is to the line, Brooks is still coming into his own, Barbre is proving to be a good (not great) G and Kelce has his ups and downs. It's a good line and the depth is improving.

Mathews is a good RB ... when he's healthy and holding on to the ball, but I'm betting he's gone. It seems run blocking is the strength of the OL with the possible exception of Kelce. An almost-Elliot running behind a good OL can not only take pressure off of Wentz but can also make the receivers look better. That's not saying an upgrade there is necessary.

Supposedly a strong RB class. Adds to BPA at PON with WR and CB in first three rounds, IMO.
Linc ...

With their first pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

With their second pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

With their third pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

See where I am going with this?

SAM I Am
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Dec 29 2016, 10:03 AM) *
Just be sure and get the right one for your offense.

Yeah, I'm keeping my fingers, toes and eyes crossed they get lucky with all of their picks.
Dreagon
I just saw on another thread your rookie QB is about to set a record at pass attempts. That puts an awful lot of pressure on a young QB that a dangerous running back could do a lot to help with.
Birdman420
Right or wrong, I would like to see them draft a WR or CB first. We need a stand-out star in either spot, I like Barner/sproles/smallwood.
Zero
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 29 2016, 11:10 AM) *
I still don't think RB is as big a priority these days. The Eagles' running game could be better but most of their problems have come from a line that has struggled to block for the run on a regular basis. The Cowboys have the best OL in the NFL. I think you could put any serviceable RB behind it and get 1,000 yards. Elliot is special but I don't believe a special RB is what wins a Superbowl these days.

Their top priority is to get people who can get open and catch the ball for Wentz and improve the OL to protect him and give the RBs they do have a chance to run rather than getting tackled behind the LOS or at the LOS. How often is Elliot hit behind/at the LOS for Dallas?

Defense needs to step up its game and get pressure and get better at covering people. The defense is what I was most disappointed with this season. I expected the offense to struggle. I also expected the defense to be better than it was.

Compare the Cowboys success on the ground this year to last year. I realize Prescott has made a difference after Romo is out, but it's the OL I'm referring to most. As Dreagon eludes to, especially with a young, developing QB a premier running game will do wonders. I'm not convinced that necessitates a first or second round RB, but I think he needs to be more than what we saw from Smallwood who could be a perfect compliment to a #1 guy.
Zero
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 29 2016, 12:03 PM) *
With their first pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

With their second pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

With their third pick in the 2017 draft the Philadelphia Eagles pick the best player still on the board at one of these three positions: WR, OL or RB

See where I am going with this?

You don't think CB is a need? DE? LB?
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 02:17 PM) *
You don't think CB is a need? DE? LB?

I sure do. I wouldn't mind redoing the entire defensive backfield, but we won't be in contention to win a SB next year anyway, so I say do everything possible in the offseason to give Carson Wentz what he needs --- protection and weapons.

Address the D as much as possible, but don't use any prime resources such as high draft picks and big free agency money on anything but the offense.

I think we are fine as far as special teams goes.
Rick
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 03:11 PM) *
Compare the Cowboys success on the ground this year to last year. I realize Prescott has made a difference after Romo is out, but it's the OL I'm referring to most. As Dreagon eludes to, especially with a young, developing QB a premier running game will do wonders. I'm not convinced that necessitates a first or second round RB, but I think he needs to be more than what we saw from Smallwood who could be a perfect compliment to a #1 guy.

They rushed for 1890 yards with 4.6 yards per carry average. Nothing wrong with that.

Elliot is absolutely a special RB. He is even more special behind that line. But, as I mentioned, a special RB isn't what wins SBs these days. It's nice to have but...

Honestly, I'd rather not see them spend a higher-round pick on a RB. You can find serviceable RBs all over the place these days. However, if they don't clean up the run blocking, it doesn't matter who is back there. But yes, I'd like to see more than they got with Smallwood. He doesn't strike me as a #1 guy...at least not yet. Mathews should be a #1 guy but he can't stay on the field and can't stop fumbling. sad.gif

I think, if they get the OL cleaned up, it will fix a lot of their running issues. It will also only help Wentz. However, he has nobody to throw to. So, the question is, which do you fix first? I think this OL can be decent to good once they play together long enough. Between suspensions and injuries, it was a patchwork OL this season. Add a stud OLman and I think it can be a very good OL. If they don't fix the OL, I think they waste any good RB they may get.

I just feel the NFL has changed so much over the years that the RB isn't as important a position as it once was. Not to mention, those guys don't typically play very long. Honestly, unless Elliot changes the way he runs, I think he may be done after about 5 seasons. He runs hard all of the time. You have to protect the body if you want to stay in the NFL for very long as a RB.
nephillymike
My off season needs chart:

1. WR
2. CB
3. WR
4. RB
5. OC or OG depending on if they think Wiz or Seamalo can play OC
6. LB
7. OT
8. CB or S depending what spots they see there young DB's playing
9. WR
10. RB

I don't want to assume Agholar nothing higher than our 4th WR and draft and free agency accordingly.

These 10 needs include draft and Free agency.

I assume R. Mathews, Kendrick, Barwin and Kelce to be no brainer cuts which creates some of these needs. I resign Logan to not create another need.


GroundedBird
This is how I see it:

#1 - Corey Davis or White?
#2 - CB - Tankersley/TreDavious White, etc
#3 - Samaje Perine (might need to throw in a #5 to move up)
#4 - OG - (Nico Siragusa?) or DT - (Montravius Adams?)

fortunately CB and RB are depth areas in this draft.


nephillymike
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ Dec 29 2016, 08:43 PM) *
This is how I see it:

#1 - Corey Davis or White?
#2 - CB - Tankersley/TreDavious White, etc
#3 - Samaje Perine (might need to throw in a #5 to move up)
#4 - OG - (Nico Siragusa?) or DT - (Montravius Adams?)

fortunately CB and RB are depth areas in this draft.

That's good news.

How's the WR draft depth?

I haven't even peeked at the draft yet.
Eyrie
This is depressing.

We still have a game left, and that's at home to Dallas, yet we're already speculating on our needs sad.gif

But here's my thoughts.

Essential - #1 WR, #1 CB

Needed - #1 RB, #3 WR, #3 LB, #2/3 DE

Don't forget - everything else

Why?

WR - Matthews is a #2, and I'd let Agholor, Green Beckham and Turner battle it out for the #4 and #5 spots. So we need two players to help Wentz develop.

CB - McKelvin is OK as the #2 which leaves Carroll/Brooks/Mills battling for two spots. Worth noting our secondary went downhill after Brooks got injured.

RB - Wentz plus a top WR will create space for a good RB to exploit, so we don't need the next Jim Brown.

LB - Hicks and Bradham are good, but Kendricks needs challenged, Tulloch is old and Goode and Grugier-Hill are STers.

DE - Barwin is gone due to his cap hit. Curry will start by default rather than merit, so we need depth/competition.

OL - Peters/Barbre/Kelce/Brooks/Johnson with Vaitai/Seumalo gives us a strong base, especially if we bring back Wizniewski or another veteran C to challenge Kelce. It's not an area of immediate need, which is testament to Peters because I've been wanting us to draft his eventual replacement for a couple of seasons now.

DT - we need to keep Logan or find a new partner for Cox. Allen is good depth but not a starter.

And we have to make do with what we've got at TE (replace Celek in 2018) and S (Watkins is a weakness if we lose Jenkins or McLeod) for now.
GroundedBird
Eyrie, I agree with most of what you said. Not sure about McKelvin. Every time I look at him, he's got poor coverage. I'd like to see him replaced. I like Mills. And didn't we have someone named Rice at one time. What happened to him.

I'd also like to see an upgrade from Logan but I think we have bigger issues.

So...

I'd like to sign a FA WR - Jackson/Jeffreys and continue with drafting WR, CB, RB as the top three with depth everywhere else. For RB if we could get Samaje Perine, I think we would be very happy with him. He reminds me a little of Earl Campbell in the highlights I've seen. The other RB we could get would be Commer out of Pitt (provided his health issues check out).

Anyway, I don't find it depressing at all. We just need to be patient. One or two drafts and we could be playoff bound.
HobbEs
Here's a DKD question: Does anyone think Tre Burton could fit the bill as a Mike Alstott type RB?
Joegrane
I think part of the reason he is throwing so much is because of the lack of a deep threat. Opposing defenses keep a S in the box making it difficult to run successfully. Also they are challenging the rookie to beat them. So the eagles have used the short passing game, including Ertz and Sproles, two of their better weapons.

If the Eagles get a WR who can be a deep threat it might allow the offense to be more balanced.

QUOTE (Dreagon @ Dec 29 2016, 12:09 PM) *
I just saw on another thread your rookie QB is about to set a record at pass attempts. That puts an awful lot of pressure on a young QB that a dangerous running back could do a lot to help with.

Joegrane
No power back?

QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Dec 29 2016, 01:35 PM) *
Right or wrong, I would like to see them draft a WR or CB first. We need a stand-out star in either spot, I like Barner/sproles/smallwood.

Joegrane
" This is depressing. We still have a game left, and that's at home to Dallas, yet we're already speculating on our needs sad.gif

...

Eyrie, I largely agree with you.

" CB - McKelvin is OK as the #2 which leaves Carroll/Brooks/Mills battling for two spots. Worth noting our secondary went downhill after Brooks got injured.

Brooks has one of the contracts that makes him available to cut without adding much dead $. I don't disagree about the job he did this year; however, will his injury affect performance next year? Don't you think Mills would be a solid slot CB? I expect Brooks to be a cap casualty, especially if they pick up a CB in rounds 1 or 2.


" RB - Wentz plus a top WR will create space for a good RB to exploit, so we don't need the next Jim Brown.

I generally agree; however, R Matthews has both speed and power. He'll beat you to the corner of the End Zone but can power up the middle or even jump over the pile. I think this is why he has so many TDs.

In an offense that lacks a deep threat WR and has an undersized OC, they will need a RB who can stretch the field wide. This is why I was okay with W Smallwood. He lacks power and doesn't make people miss, however, he has the straight line speed to stretch the field wide.

" LB - Hicks and Bradham are good, but Kendricks needs challenged, Tulloch is old and Goode and Grugier-Hill are STers.

Unless they just don't like Kendricks, I would not be surprised if he is back next year or is traded for a 7th round pick. If released he provides $2mil in cap space but also incurs $5mil in dead $. Unless they plan to draft a LB in round 3, I would keep him for another year. Otherwise, draft a LB with one of the 4th round picks and let him get some experience this year under Kendricks.

I wonder if they like Goode because he has the mental ability to run the defense. Supposedly Kendricks is not good at that.

" DE - Barwin is gone due to his cap hit. Curry will start by default rather than merit, so we need depth/competition.

This is an interesting position for the birds. They have invested here--#1 and #2 rounders--but are not getting much return.

M Smith is interesting--1.5mil cap savings if cut but 1mil dead$. Do they like him enough to share the Rt DE spot with Curry or will they use one of their higher draft picks on a DE? Smith is signed through 2017, so this is a contract year but also a time to draft his replacement.

Curry's contract does not become attractive to dump until 2020! I assume he'll have at least the role of a pass rushing specialist for several more years.


" OL - Peters/Barbre/Kelce/Brooks/Johnson with Vaitai/Seumalo gives us a strong base, especially if we bring back Wizniewski or another veteran C to challenge Kelce. It's not an area of immediate need, which is testament to Peters because I've been wanting us to draft his eventual replacement for a couple of seasons now.

Some sports writers think Wiz will go elsewhere and get either a starting job or a position like he had this year with the Eagles--first interior OL backup. I don't think he will be back. I expect Seumalo to be the first interior OL backup unless Kelce is released. I expect Kelce to be back for one more year to help CW with blitz calls while Seumalo develops.

...

" And we have to make do with what we've got at TE (replace Celek in 2018)

I agree. It would be expensive to cut Celek. This is unfortunate because they have the mid round picks to use on a blocking TE. Maybe they'll draft a TE in round 6 or 7 and try to stash him on the PS.

" and S (Watkins is a weakness if we lose Jenkins or McLeod) for now.

I agree. I would definitely be looking to draft a S in the middle rounds.


Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Dec 30 2016, 10:06 AM) *
No power back?

QUOTE
35 Watson, Terrell RB 6-1 240 23 1 Azusa Pacific
On the practice squad and was presumed to be promoted for this week's game. I'd say he's a long shot to do much, but here's a story on him.
Phits
RB is not a top priority in today's NFL.

QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 29 2016, 09:56 AM) *
There's an argument that RB is a top need for the Eagles, but the top need? Gowton makes the point on how Elliot changed the Cowboys, especially with a rookie QB. I have to wonder if Dak would have been nearly as good without Elliot and that OL.

When the Eagles' OL is healthy they're not bad and can actually be pretty good. Peters still has gas in the tank, LJ just showed how important he is to the line, Brooks is still coming into his own, Barbre is proving to be a good (not great) G and Kelce has his ups and downs. It's a good line and the depth is improving.

Mathews is a good RB ... when he's healthy and holding on to the ball, but I'm betting he's gone. It seems run blocking is the strength of the OL with the possible exception of Kelce. An almost-Elliot running behind a good OL can not only take pressure off of Wentz but can also make the receivers look better. That's not saying an upgrade there is necessary.

Supposedly a strong RB class. Adds to BPA at PON with WR and CB in first three rounds, IMO.
Linc ...

Dreagon
What if Cook falls to you? I've seen some projections having him fall to the low to mid teens.
Phits
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Dec 30 2016, 04:26 PM) *
What if Cook falls to you? I've seen some projections having him fall to the low to mid teens.

Perhaps if that's the "low to mid teens" of the third round. Other than that you'll get the same production from RB by committee (with less concern over the injury bug or excessive carries/rushing attempts).

Three out of the top five rushers this season are players on teams that will miss the playoffs.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 30 2016, 08:05 PM) *
Perhaps if that's the "low to mid teens" of the third round. Other than that you'll get the same production from RB by committee (with less concern over the injury bug or excessive carries/rushing attempts).

Three out of the top five rushers this season are players on teams that will miss the playoffs.

Well-said....
Zero
Curious, would anyone take a flyer on Mixon if he's still there on day 3? Read ...
Joegrane
How does his situation compare to CB Mills?

I'd rather see the Eagles draft a RB who should be able to contribute as a rookie, even if it means using their 2nd round pick.

I'd rather see them think about the future rather than have to sign a aged veteran--unless that is a well-healed R Matthews at a lower price.

QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 31 2016, 10:21 AM) *
Curious, would anyone take a flyer on Mixon if he's still there on day 3? Read ...
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Dec 31 2016, 02:39 PM) *
How does his situation compare to CB Mills?

I'd rather see the Eagles draft a RB who should be able to contribute as a rookie, even if it means using their 2nd round pick.

I'd rather see them think about the future rather than have to sign a aged veteran--unless that is a well-healed R Matthews at a lower price.

Mixon apparently has the talent, and some things I've read seem to say that he was a kid who made a dumb mistake and has changed. On talent only, he could be a steal on day three if he slides that far, the question is if teams want a guy who clocked a coed.

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