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CT_Eagle
What makes it a real bitch is that I am still not sold on Wentz. We could be looking at one of those classic 5 year rebuild programs and it will not start until after this season. Start with a new head coach. I can give him a pass on the players he has to work with. The lack of discipline is inexcusable. If you cannot deliver get that you do not belong in the NFL.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:24 PM) *
What makes it a real bitch is that I am still not sold on Wentz. We could be looking at one of those classic 5 year rebuild programs and it will not start until after this season. Start with a new head coach. I can give him a pass on the players he has to work with. The lack of discipline is inexcusable. If you cannot deliver get that you do not belong in the NFL.

The rebuild started this year with a new HC and a new QB.

Now it is a matter of getting the right pieces put in place around him, and doing something about that horrendous defensive backfield.

It won't take five years, but it isn't going to happen overnight either. And if they don't make the right off season moves, it won't happen at all.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 02:24 PM) *
What makes it a real bitch is that I am still not sold on Wentz.

That makes one of us. We've put him in a position where he has no margin for error. It's a nightmare for a rookie.

We put him in 3rd and long nearly every series and he has no one to throw to. He's setup for failure.

The fact that he remains composed is basically the only thing I'm paying attention to at this point. He completely looks the part, which is so rare for a young QB put in this situation.

QUOTE
We could be looking at one of those classic 5 year rebuild programs and it will not start until after this season.

I think it will happen much quicker, but only because of my confidence in Wentz. We need to get him a receiver this offseason. Which is easier said than done.

QUOTE
Start with a new head coach. I can give him a pass on the players he has to work with. The lack of discipline is inexcusable. If you cannot deliver get that you do not belong in the NFL.

You don't fire a coach after one year. Unless you want to become the Browns.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:24 PM) *
What makes it a real bitch is that I am still not sold on Wentz.

That is a bitch, because whether you are sold on him or not. He is the centerpiece of this offense and I can guarantee you, he isn't going anywhere for a long time.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 07:31 PM) *
That makes one of us. We've put him in a position where he has no margin for error. It's a nightmare for a rookie.

We put him in 3rd and long nearly every series and he has no one to throw to. He's setup for failure.

The fact that he remains composed is basically the only thing I'm paying attention to at this point. He completely looks the part, which is so rare for a young QB put in this situation.


I think it will happen much quicker, but only because of my confidence in Wentz. We need to get him a receiver this offseason. Which is easier said than done.


You don't fire a coach after one year. Unless you want to become the Browns.



I have been saying for a couple of weeks now, he has the opposite problem of McNabb. McNabb was known for his worm burners. Wentz has a problem with throwing high. At least with the worm burners it is difficult to make an interception. I know the WRs suck but do yourself a favor. Count how many times they have to jump to get their hands on the ball. Add in missing wide open receivers like he did with Beckham, the number of times he throws behind a receiver and to receivers in coverage and it is apparent that Wentz has a long way to go to become a playoff caliber QB. Maybe he gets their eventually but so far this season, he has regressed.

With regards to Pederson, I would not fire him this season. I would keep him until the roster has been upgraded substantially. However, I am calling it now, he will not be a successful NFL coach. If he cannot get his players to stop committing stupid penalties and to line up correctly, he cannot coach.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 4 2016, 07:36 PM) *
That is a bitch, because whether you are sold on him or not. He is the centerpiece of this offense and I can guarantee you, he isn't going anywhere for a long time.


Obviously he is not going anywhere. I did not say I have given up on him. I realize he is a rookie. I just haven't seen anything out of him since the 1st three games that has convinced me he is the future. Hopefully he makes great strides this off season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 02:38 PM) *
I have been saying for a couple of weeks now, he has the opposite problem of McNabb. McNabb was known for his worm burners. Wentz has a problem with throwing high. At least with the worm burners it is difficult to make an interception. I know the WRs suck but do yourself a favor. Count how many times they have to jump to get their hands on the ball. Add in missing wide open receivers like he did with Beckham, the number of times he throws behind a receiver and to receivers in coverage and it is apparent that Wentz has a long way to go to become a playoff caliber QB. Maybe he gets their eventually but so far this season, he has regressed.

Yeah, it's mechanics. Which is the first thing to go with a young QB when they don't get any help (especially from the OL).

QUOTE
With regards to Pederson, I would not fire him this season. I would keep him until the roster has been upgraded substantially. However, I am calling it now, he will not be a successful NFL coach. If he cannot get his players to stop committing stupid penalties and to line up correctly, he cannot coach.

Meh, towards the end of things with Andy, our team was undisciplined. It was largely the product of them not being very good. Andy is probably a top-3 coach in the NFL.

Once we have more talent, we will be more disciplined.

nephillymike
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 02:41 PM) *
Obviously he is not going anywhere. I did not say I have given up on him. I realize he is a rookie. I just haven't seen anything out of him since the 1st three games that has convinced me he is the future. Hopefully he makes great strides this off season.


He hasn't shown much, other than his demeanor and press conference presence.

His inaccuracy is a big concern.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:44 PM) *
Yeah, it's mechanics. Which is the first thing to go with a young QB when they don't get any help (especially from the OL).


Meh, towards the end of things with Andy, our team was undisciplined. It was largely the product of them not being very good. Andy is probably a top-3 coach in the NFL.

Once we have more talent, we will be more disciplined.


Andy is not even a top 5 coach must less top 3. I know you like him and have supported him for years but you have to win the big game as a coach if you want to be rated with the best of your peers.

With regards to penalties, it does not take talent to not commit penalties. It takes discipline, plain and simple. That comes from coaching.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:38 PM) *
he will not be a successful NFL coach. If he cannot get his players to stop committing stupid penalties and to line up correctly, he cannot coach.

Wrong. Players committing undisciplined penalties is not the coach's fault. It is the players' fault.

At some point, the HC then has to step in and cut loose the player if he continues to commit stupid penalties. If he doesn't, then it becomes the HC's fault.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 02:49 PM) *
Andy is not even a top 5 coach must less top 3. I know you like him and have supported him for years but you have to win the big game as a coach if you want to be rated with the best of your peers.


Hahahhaha. Okay dude. I guarantee you that Andy would be rated a top-5 coach by just about anyone who's opinion is worth anything in this league.

QUOTE
With regards to penalties, it does not take talent to not commit penalties. It takes discipline, plain and simple. That comes from coaching.

Talented players are generally more disciplined.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 4 2016, 08:52 PM) *
Wrong. Players committing undisciplined penalties is not the coach's fault. It is the players' fault.

At some point, the HC then has to step in and cut loose the player if he continues to commit stupid penalties. If he doesn't, then it becomes the HC's fault.



How long are you planning on giving him? This is a season long problem. When you have one or two players consistently making penalties, that is one thing. When a team is one of the most penalized teams in the NFL, that is culture, which established by the coach.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:57 PM) *
How long are you planning on giving him? This is a season long problem. When you have one or two players consistently making penalties, that is one thing. When a team is one of the most penalized teams in the NFL, that is culture, which established by the coach.

So, I guess you are implying that the solution is to fire the head coach now?
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 4 2016, 08:10 PM) *
So, I guess you are implying that the solution is to fire the head coach now?


Nope. As stated above. Keep him while you rebuild the roster. That will make the team attractive to a legit HC. Then make the move.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 07:56 PM) *
Hahahhaha. Okay dude. I guarantee you that Andy would be rated a top-5 coach by just about anyone who's opinion is worth anything in this league.


Talented players are generally more disciplined.


7 active coaches have won a Super Bowl. I am interested in winning championships, not divisions. If you want to win a ton of divisional titles than Andy is your man.

It does not take talent to not jump off sides. It does not take talent to line up correctly. It takes discipline.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 04:17 PM) *
Nope. As stated above. Keep him while you rebuild the roster. That will make the team attractive to a legit HC. Then make the move.

Gotcha.

Okay. So, he isn't a legit HC, but you want to keep him anyway, because evidently it doesn't matter who the HC is while you are building a roster --- and instilling a culture. It only matters after the roster is in place, right?

Just out of curiousity, what legit HC do you have in mind to bring in once the roster is rebuilt?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:20 PM) *
7 active coaches have won a Super Bowl. I am interested in winning championships, not divisions. If you want to win a ton of divisional titles than Andy is your man.

Your "big game" argument is hilarious. He has the 9th most playoff wins of all time. His team has won 18-21 regular season games.

Your arbitrary standard doesn't really matter to me. I'm quite confident that if you asked any opposing coach, they would rank Andy in the top-5.


QUOTE
It does not take talent to not jump off sides. It does not take talent to line up correctly. It takes discipline.

Right. And coaches don't jump offsides. Coaches don't line up. Especially when you see the coach standing on the sideline jumping up and down trying to get his dipshit receiver to move up a foot.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 4 2016, 08:30 PM) *
Gotcha.

Okay. So, he isn't a legit HC, but you want to keep him anyway, because evidently it doesn't matter who the HC is while you are building a roster --- and instilling a culture. It only matters after the roster is in place, right?

Just out of curiousity, what legit HC do you have in mind to bring in once the roster is rebuilt?



Belichick. Just kidding. I have no idea who will be available in a year or two.

What I am suggesting is not out of the ordinary. Rhodes was not a good head coach but when he left and Reid came in, the foundation of the defense was in place.

CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:34 PM) *
Your "big game" argument is hilarious. He has the 9th most playoff wins of all time. His team has won 18-21 regular season games.

Your arbitrary standard doesn't really matter to me. I'm quite confident that if you asked any opposing coach, they would rank Andy in the top-5.



Right. And coaches don't jump offsides. Coaches don't line up. Especially when you see the coach standing on the sideline jumping up and down trying to get his dipshit receiver to move up a foot.


Like I said, you have defended Andy for years. Your arbitrary standard matters no more to me than mine does to you. He does not have a ring and as such, he is not a top 5 anything.

Keep making excuses for the lack of team discipline. You should make a copy of that statement. You are going to need to keep typing it over the next couple of seasons.


mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:40 PM) *
Like I said, you have defended Andy for years. Your arbitrary standard matters no more to me than mine does to you. He does not have a ring and as such, he is not a top 5 anything.

My standard isn't arbitrary. He has the 13 most wins in NFL history. The 9th most playoff wins. I could make a pretty strong argument that he's the second best active coach in the NFL.

Many subpar coaches have won SBs.

QUOTE
Keep making excuses for the lack of team discipline. You should make a copy of that statement. You are going to need to keep typing it over the next couple of seasons.

I guess time will tell.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:50 PM) *
My standard isn't arbitrary. He has the 13 most wins in NFL history. The 9th most playoff wins. I could make a pretty strong argument that he's the second best active coach in the NFL.

Many subpar coaches have won SBs.


I guess time will tell.


Then neither is mine. He has 0 Super Bowl rings which is the whole point of the game.


mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 03:53 PM) *
Then neither is mine. He has 0 Super Bowl rings which is the whole point of the game.

It's one data point.

Your opinion then is that the top-5 coaches in football is what?

1) Belichick
2) Carroll
3) McCarthy? Payton? Harbaugh? Kubiak? Tomlin?

Can't wait to hear the order of that who's who of mediocre ass coaches.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 09:08 PM) *
It's one data point.

Your opinion then is that the top-5 coaches in football is what?

1) Belichick
2) Carroll
3) McCarthy? Payton? Harbaugh? Kubiak? Tomlin?

Can't wait to hear the order of that who's who of mediocre ass coaches.


Your really having a difficult time with my point. If they won a Super Bowl, they are better. Period. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. It is not to have a winning record. It is not to win a ton of divisional titles. Reid is in his 17th season and has been to one Super Bowl. You mock coaches such as McCarthy, Payton, Harbaugh, Kubiak and Tomlin but they got the job done. So to answer your question, I would take every one of them for their one year of success over Andy Reid's 17 years of coming up short. Because again, the goal is to win the Super Bowl, not your division.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 04:27 PM) *
Your really having a difficult time with my point. If they won a Super Bowl, they are better. Period.

I'm not missing the point. Your point is stupid.

QUOTE
The goal is to win the Super Bowl.

Winning a SB extends beyond the HC.

QUOTE
It is not to have a winning record. It is not to win a ton of divisional titles.

Doing those two things are vital to winning a SB.

QUOTE
Reid is in his 17th season and has been to one Super Bowl. You mock coaches such as McCarthy, Payton, Harbaugh, Kubiak and Tomlin but they got the job done. So to answer your question, I would take every one of them for their one year of success over Andy Reid's 17 years of coming up short. Because again, the goal is to win the Super Bowl, not your division.

I'm not talking about their one year of success. I'm talking about the NFL. Today.

The Franchise
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 04:27 PM) *
Your really having a difficult time with my point. If they won a Super Bowl, they are better. Period. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. It is not to have a winning record. It is not to win a ton of divisional titles. Reid is in his 17th season and has been to one Super Bowl. You mock coaches such as McCarthy, Payton, Harbaugh, Kubiak and Tomlin but they got the job done. So to answer your question, I would take every one of them for their one year of success over Andy Reid's 17 years of coming up short. Because again, the goal is to win the Super Bowl, not your division.


Please stop. Talking logic to him is like trying to teach a pig to whistle. It doesn't work, and you and the pig just end up getting annoyed.

60 pass attempts, 19 runs - 3 of them not scripted. My worst fear was that we were getting Andy-Lite - same stupid play calling, without the regular season wins. I've never seen such an undisciplined mess, and I'm at the point where I expect our defense to give up every 3rd down conversion they face. I just hope Wentz stays healthy long enough until we find him a target downfield.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 09:32 PM) *
I'm not missing the point. Your point is stupid.


Winning a SB extends beyond the HC.


Doing those two things are vital to winning a SB.


I'm not talking about their one year of success. I'm talking about the NFL. Today.


Stupid is defending a coach who has not been able to achieve a championship in 17 years of coaching while putting down coaches who have achieved that championship in less than half that time.

It makes sense that you would dismiss their one year of success. You cannot defend 17 year failure if you allow their success into the conversation. Their success only amplifies Reid's failure.

bwc2112
This is ridiculous, could you or anyone reading do a better job. Mistakes are the building blocks for success.

Who on here can operate a Track Hoe in an area with gas and electric with out hitting one or both.
The operater we bring always has a spotter (CYA) . I don't need one . biggrin.gif
These guys aren't sharpening pencils in the office .
Play station or X-Box 27 will give you non reality. They don't get to do a "Do-Over"

Really, Folks it ain't the first damn time.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 04:46 PM) *
Stupid is defending a coach who has not been able to achieve a championship in 17 years of coaching while putting down coaches who have achieved that championship in less than half that time.

It makes sense that you would dismiss their one year of success. You cannot defend 17 year failure if you allow their success into the conversation. Their success only amplifies Reid's failure.

You call not winning a SB failure. We dramatically disagree there.

Winning a SB requires multiple things falling into place. It's not a HC achievement. That's been proven countless times by inferior coaches (e.g. Billick) accomplishing it.

Outside of this board, Andy is easily one of the most respected coaching minds in the game. Having a talent deficit at the most important position in the game makes winning a SB extremely difficult.

The SB is a data point. One of many to judge coaches.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 11:07 PM) *
You call not winning a SB failure. We dramatically disagree there.

Winning a SB requires multiple things falling into place. It's not a HC achievement. That's been proven countless times by inferior coaches (e.g. Billick) accomplishing it.

Outside of this board, Andy is easily one of the most respected coaching minds in the game. Having a talent deficit at the most important position in the game makes winning a SB extremely difficult.

The SB is a data point. One of many to judge coaches.



I told you way up thread that we disagree on what constitutes a great coach.

You can stop saying obvious things like it takes more than an HC to win a Super Bowl. Nobody disagrees with that. However, Reid has had 17 years and for a good portion of that, complete control, still nothing.

Being a respected coach does not make you a great coach. Those two terms do not mean the same thing. You want to be great, win a championship. All he needs is one and I will put him ahead of every coach you listed other than Belichick and maybe Carroll. Until then, those other coaches have achieved a level of success that Reid has not.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 05:19 PM) *
I told you way up thread that we disagree on what constitutes a great coach.

You can stop saying obvious things like it takes more than an HC to win a Super Bowl. Nobody disagrees with that. However, Reid has had 17 years and for a good portion of that, complete control, still nothing.

So you think maybe he isn't a good personnel guy?

QUOTE
Being a respected coach does not make you a great coach. Those two terms do not mean the same thing. You want to be great, win a championship. All he needs is one and I will put him ahead of every coach you listed other than Belichick and maybe Carroll. Until then, those other coaches have achieved a level of success that Reid has not.

Which is why your argument is dumb. This isn't a debate on coaching achievements. It's a discussion of coaching ability. Andy is considered to be a top-5 (probably higher) coach in football.

CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 10:29 PM) *
So you think maybe he isn't a good personnel guy?


Which is why your argument is dumb. This isn't a debate on coaching achievements. It's a discussion of coaching ability. Andy is considered to be a top-5 (probably higher) coach in football.



He was an average personnel guy.

For you the debate is coaching ability. For me it is what makes a great coach. I have been very consistent in stating that Reid is not great coach and never said he was not a good coach which is why you continuing to point out all of the good thing Reid has done as a rebuttal is dumb. If Reid wants to be great, let him achieve something great. Describing the winning of multiple divisional championships as "great" cheapens the definition of great. If you use great in that manner, what word do you use to describe a coach who wins a couple of Super Bowls? Extra Great?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 06:07 PM) *
He was an average personnel guy.

For you the debate is coaching ability. For me it is what makes a great coach. I have been very consistent in stating that Reid is not great coach and never said he was not a good coach which is why you continuing to point out all of the good thing Reid has done as a rebuttal is dumb. If Reid wants to be great, let him achieve something great. Describing the winning of multiple divisional championships as "great" cheapens the definition of great. If you use great in that manner, what word do you use to describe a coach who wins a couple of Super Bowls? Extra Great?

Once again, you are talking about some method of defining his career. I'm saying that Andy Reid is a top-5 coach. Meaning, if you are picking a coach to coach for a season or game, he would be amongst the first five you would pick.

I'm 100% confident that anyone who knows shit about this sport would agree. And if Harbaugh were to come back to the league, he would be in that group. This despite the fact that he has never won a SB (or a Big 10 title for that matter).
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:07 PM) *
Meaning, if you are picking a coach to coach for a season or game, he would be amongst the first five you would pick.


Since the season would presumably include playoffs, he's in the middle of the pack. If it was a single game, same thing. He's proven over his career that he can beat bad teams and build a solid roster, but when put up against good teams and good coaches, he's completely outmatched.
mcnabbulous
Like I said, "anyone who knows shit about this sport." Clearly no one asked you.
bwc2112
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 06:07 PM) *
He was an average personnel guy.

For you the debate is coaching ability. For me it is what makes a great coach. I have been very consistent in stating that Reid is not great coach and never said he was not a good coach which is why you continuing to point out all of the good thing Reid has done as a rebuttal is dumb. If Reid wants to be great, let him achieve something great. Describing the winning of multiple divisional championships as "great" cheapens the definition of great. If you use great in that manner, what word do you use to describe a coach who wins a couple of Super Bowls? Extra Great?

It takes more than a coach to make things work. It is the whole organization. The NFL is a business .
Chip Kelley as known in Music a one hit wonder. Sysematicaly killed us and is doing selectively awesome in San Francisco. This is a coach that sucks!
Andy Reid ? what are you on ? Dick Vermiel started a trend. Buddy Ryan came and perfected ,Andy Took us to a new level. This is leaving out some experimental coaches.
Bottom line Andy became to predictable and made bad time clock choices.
Now if greatness at coach means to you just rings, there will be 31 coaches at the end of this year standing at the bank with checks larger than yours.
bwc2112
On top of that with all areas I travel in this USA. The only two Pompass asses that care about rings are Dallas and Pittsburgh. you can have it! I prefer class. cool.gif
nephillymike
Interesting question.

Where is Reid in current head coach ranking?

Where is he among any of his coaching peers?

He's got to be pretty high up there.

Maybe the top tier of non HOF coaches, no?

Even though that may be the case, aI think he has a fatal flaw which will prevent him from a SB title.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:49 PM) *
Like I said, "anyone who knows shit about this sport." Clearly no one asked you.


He's 2-4 in the playoffs without #5 on the field. He's won one playoff game since 2008. If you were correct, almost every team in the league would've been tripping over themselves to grab him when he was fired. If I were the Chiefs I'd let him finish out the year (things are setting up nicely for another early playoff exit for Big Red), and hire a coach who can manage a game to finish what he started. He's incapable of winning a ring, and everyone who knows shit about knows it.
The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 4 2016, 09:00 PM) *
Interesting question.

Where is Reid in current head coach ranking?

Where is he among any of his coaching peers?

He's got to be pretty high up there.

Maybe the top tier of non HOF coaches, no?

Even though that may be the case, aI think he has a fatal flaw which will prevent him from a SB title.


He isn't currently in the top 10, and hasn't been for some time. He's the best there is from Monday-Saturday, but unfortunately games are played on Sunday. He's also useless in January.

I'd hire him for 3 years if I was an owner - and he'd bring my franchise to right about where we were in 2002 and the Chiefs are now. Then I'd fire him, and let someone who won't constantly be outcoached in big games finish the job. That's his legacy, king of the regular season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Dec 4 2016, 08:08 PM) *
He's 2-4 in the playoffs without #5 on the field.

I'm not sure what your point is. Do I have to point out how many playoff victories Bill Belichick has without Brady? Or McCarthy without Rodgers, or Payton without Brees, etc...

QUOTE
He's won one playoff game since 2008.

Yeah. With his arsenal of Kolb, Vick, Foles and Alex Smith. Hard to believe he hasn't scorched the league.

QUOTE
If you were correct, almost every team in the league would've been tripping over themselves to grab him when he was fired.

He was basically hired immediately upon leaving Philly. There were rumors that San Diego and Arizona were both interested. KC didn't let him leave.

QUOTE
If I were the Chiefs I'd let him finish out the year (things are setting up nicely for another early playoff exit for Big Red), and hire a coach who can manage a game to finish what he started. He's incapable of winning a ring, and everyone who knows shit about knows it.

Yeah that's not going to happen. Seeing as how they are quite possibly getting a first round bye.

But yeah. Totally outmatched against good teams. It wasn't just last week that his team beat the 8-3 Broncos in Denver. You're such a dipshit.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Dec 4 2016, 08:11 PM) *
He isn't currently in the top 10, and hasn't been for some time. He's the best there is from Monday-Saturday, but unfortunately games are played on Sunday. He's also useless in January.

It's funny you say that, because of the 19 wins the Chiefs have had in their past 22 games, I suspect at least a couple of those were played on Sundays.

But man, they lost to Belichick and Brady in Foxboro in the playoffs. Clearly he's a bum.

Joegrane
People were too "high" after some early Ws and are too "low" now.

For your "rebuild" maybe you'd like the following:

Stud O Tackle such as Lane Johnson.

A feature back who has the speed to stretch the D wide and size to pound inside--Ryan Matthews

A solid, if unspectacular slot receiver-- J Matthews.

I am disturbed by a string of mediocre performances by CW, but he is a rookie that needs his mechanics tweaked. We all saw that he was able to make plays earlier in the year. Maybe he is dinged up but not enough to make the official list of injuries. I'm confident he'll be okay over the long term.

It wasn't long ago that many of us--including me-- were thinking they could string together quite a few W's in the last third of the season and be in contention for a playoff spot. Now I'm wondering if they will win another game this year?!

QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 4 2016, 02:24 PM) *
What makes it a real bitch is that I am still not sold on Wentz. We could be looking at one of those classic 5 year rebuild programs and it will not start until after this season. Start with a new head coach. I can give him a pass on the players he has to work with. The lack of discipline is inexcusable. If you cannot deliver get that you do not belong in the NFL.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Dec 4 2016, 07:34 PM) *
Since the season would presumably include playoffs, he's in the middle of the pack. If it was a single game, same thing. He's proven over his career that he can beat bad teams and build a solid roster, but when put up against good teams and good coaches, he's completely outmatched.


well he has beaten Oakland, Denver and Atlanta this season already....
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 4 2016, 08:25 PM) *
It's funny you say that, because of the 19 wins the Chiefs have had in their past 22 games, I suspect at least a couple of those were played on Sundays.

But man, they lost to Belichick and Brady in Foxboro in the playoffs. Clearly he's a bum.


Dude, you crack me up. Trolling you is so much fun. laugh.gif
Rick
Regardless of whether Reid is a good/great/HOF coach or not, it's obvious Pedersen is none of these things. He has regressed just as his team has this season. He continues to make the same stupid mistakes, still sucks as a play caller and this team gets less and less disciplined as the season goes on (yes, there is some element of the player in this but, at the end of the day, the coaching staff is allowing it to happen). I'm done with Pedersen. I don't care whether it, "makes us like the Browns," or not. I care about this team winning football games and, eventually, winning a SB. I don't see that happening with Pedersen.

Sure, you can make excuses that Chip Kelly (FUCK YOU CHIP KELLY for setting this team back 5 years by dumping the talent!) left him nothing to work with but, good coaches get more from their players. Pedersen is getting nothing from these guys--even the few good ones they've got.

Wentz continues to regress. What happened to Pedersen's ability to train a QB? Shouldn't Wentz be getting better instead of worse? I know, he's got little to work with but he's had little to work with all season and, for the most part, he's had a healthy offense to work with (until recently). But his footwork continues to be a problem causing him to overthrow receivers constantly. He continues to hold onto the ball too long in the pocket. Yes, better receivers and a better offensive line will help but mechanics need to be corrected and I'm not seeing that happen. I blame coaching on this.

10 penalties again? What, 5 or 6 false starts? One time 2 in a row? I blame coaching and the players but don't forget about the coaching.

This was yet another game they needed to have where they came out lifeless and not prepared to play. They weren't prepared to play after their bye week. There is no excuse to not come out ready to play regardless of your talent level. One of the coach's job is to get them prepared to play. He is failing miserably at that.

The defense has been on the same track lately as well. When your defense is totally dependent on getting to the QB and sacking him and you have 1 sack in the last 3 games, this is what you get. They have tried and tried to get guys who can cover a receiver but, for some reason, CBs come to the Eagles to die. I don't know what it takes to get a CB on this team to turn his fucking head and make a play on the ball. Many of the reasons guys do wind up open are technique issues (again). This is a coaching issue.

He looked lost yesterday. He has been sounding lost at his press conferences. Stop the bleeding, please.

I predicted 5 wins and didn't expect much but, what bothers me is how they look worse each week instead of showing signs of getting better.

On a bright note, for the most part, until DGB got injured, he was showing he may become a good WR. That route he ran on that 3rd and long where Wentz almost threw the ball into the stands was a thing of beauty. I haven't seen an Eagles WR that open in quite some time. Sadly, Wentz's mechanics failed him again.

NA didn't suck yesterday. Nothing spectacular but he didn't suck at least.

This team looks horrible at the moment.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (bwc2112 @ Dec 5 2016, 12:59 AM) *
On top of that with all areas I travel in this USA. The only two Pompass asses that care about rings are Dallas and Pittsburgh. you can have it! I prefer class. cool.gif



Consider me a pompass ass then. I want a ring before I die.
mcnabbulous
The mechanics are failing because he's a young QB who doesn't trust his OL or his weapons. It's that simple.

Regression is a silly word to describe someone who has played 12 games. Wentz threw less than 700 passes in college. These types of hiccups should be expected.

Get excited about the good. Be happy about his composure and toughness. Take the bad with a grain of salt. You'll sleep easier.
Phits
Stability is one of the keys for success. Another key is patience.

Giving up on a HC with less than a season in the role is silly and a recipe for failure. Perhaps DP isn't the long term solution or the one who will turn the franchise around, but to make that decision this quickly is irrational and reeks of desperation.

QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 5 2016, 06:22 AM) *
Regardless of whether Reid is a good/great/HOF coach or not, it's obvious Pedersen is none of these things. He has regressed just as his team has this season. He continues to make the same stupid mistakes, still sucks as a play caller and this team gets less and less disciplined as the season goes on (yes, there is some element of the player in this but, at the end of the day, the coaching staff is allowing it to happen). I'm done with Pedersen. I don't care whether it, "makes us like the Browns," or not. I care about this team winning football games and, eventually, winning a SB. I don't see that happening with Pedersen.

Sure, you can make excuses that Chip Kelly (FUCK YOU CHIP KELLY for setting this team back 5 years by dumping the talent!) left him nothing to work with but, good coaches get more from their players. Pedersen is getting nothing from these guys--even the few good ones they've got.

Wentz continues to regress. What happened to Pedersen's ability to train a QB? Shouldn't Wentz be getting better instead of worse? I know, he's got little to work with but he's had little to work with all season and, for the most part, he's had a healthy offense to work with (until recently). But his footwork continues to be a problem causing him to overthrow receivers constantly. He continues to hold onto the ball too long in the pocket. Yes, better receivers and a better offensive line will help but mechanics need to be corrected and I'm not seeing that happen. I blame coaching on this.

10 penalties again? What, 5 or 6 false starts? One time 2 in a row? I blame coaching and the players but don't forget about the coaching.

This was yet another game they needed to have where they came out lifeless and not prepared to play. They weren't prepared to play after their bye week. There is no excuse to not come out ready to play regardless of your talent level. One of the coach's job is to get them prepared to play. He is failing miserably at that.

The defense has been on the same track lately as well. When your defense is totally dependent on getting to the QB and sacking him and you have 1 sack in the last 3 games, this is what you get. They have tried and tried to get guys who can cover a receiver but, for some reason, CBs come to the Eagles to die. I don't know what it takes to get a CB on this team to turn his fucking head and make a play on the ball. Many of the reasons guys do wind up open are technique issues (again). This is a coaching issue.

He looked lost yesterday. He has been sounding lost at his press conferences. Stop the bleeding, please.

I predicted 5 wins and didn't expect much but, what bothers me is how they look worse each week instead of showing signs of getting better.

On a bright note, for the most part, until DGB got injured, he was showing he may become a good WR. That route he ran on that 3rd and long where Wentz almost threw the ball into the stands was a thing of beauty. I haven't seen an Eagles WR that open in quite some time. Sadly, Wentz's mechanics failed him again.

NA didn't suck yesterday. Nothing spectacular but he didn't suck at least.

This team looks horrible at the moment.

Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 5 2016, 09:43 AM) *
The mechanics are failing because he's a young QB who doesn't trust his OL or his weapons. It's that simple.

Regression is a silly word to describe someone who has played 12 games. Wentz threw less than 700 passes in college. These types of hiccups should be expected.

Get excited about the good. Be happy about his composure and toughness. Take the bad with a grain of salt. You'll sleep easier.

The definition for regression is - a return to a former or less developed state. By definition, he has regressed. Part of that is absolutely the people he has around him, however, part of it is on the coaching.
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 5 2016, 11:04 AM) *
Stability is one of the keys for success. Another key is patience.

Giving up on a HC with less than a season in the role is silly and a recipe for failure. Perhaps DP isn't the long term solution or the one who will turn the franchise around, but to make that decision this quickly is irrational and reeks of desperation.

I don't disagree and, normally, I'd be thinking the same thing. But, the trend of DP not seeming to change with what he's learning is concerning. Maybe he comes back next season and has digested some of what he's learned and he's better. I don't realistically expect them to fire him after one season. i'm just concerned the coach doesn't seem to be learning and the team, in turn, is also not getting better. Both have gotten worse.

I hope they can get a few other players who will upgrade some positions and see if we can get some forward movement towards the future. This trend of getting worse as the season goes on is very concerning though.
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