Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Wentz played poorly.
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Pages: 1, 2
nephillymike
Underthrew the long ball.

Was high on passes too often.

Threw into double coverage.

Threw to Shermans side instead of the other guy and didn't abuse Chancelor in coverage.

Didn't run with it to help matters out.

Very disappointing. He's a below average NFL QB.

There were throws to be made. We may not have won because our D sucked, but we would have had a shot.
Phits
He needs a playmaking receiver.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 20 2016, 10:26 PM) *
He needs a playmaking receiver.

True.

But even with the shit WRs we had today, he could have made it much closer
mcnabbulous
Playing one of the best defenses in the toughest road environment in the NFL. And you thought Wentz was the reason it wasn't close?

Do you know how hard it is to actually have a negative impact as a skill player? Agholor probably cost us 10 points by himself today.

Then we lose our top two runners (as if it mattered, because the Hawks were able to stack the box and dare our trash receivers to beat them).

Even when Wentz is perfect, his receivers don't come through. The expectation that they have created has put undue pressure on a rookie QB. They've given him zero margin for error and often that isn't good enough.

I can turn on any game, any team and see 2-3 guys who make plays that I'm convinced not one of our players is capable of making.

Carson can't toss up a back shoulder throw and expect his guy to go get it. Literally not one guy. I can't watch this shit anymore. I'll do it, because I miss the season when it's not around, but I'm totally disgusted watching these guys. I'm definitely far less invested than I have been in years.
Rick
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 21 2016, 12:35 AM) *
True.

But even with the shit WRs we had today, he could have made it much closer

He certainly didn't have a good game yesterday but, how, exactly, could a better QB have made a difference today? It was more of the same from this shit WR group. They aren't getting open and they aren't catching the ball. That's not his fault.

He is a rookie. I expect a bad game against one of the best defenses in many years. Is he a great QB? Not now and maybe not ever. But, to say he is a below average QB because of his recent play when he has not one playmaker on offense (besides Sproles) is a bit misleading...
nephillymike
You can point to the Agholar drop, the Agholar penalty, the Matthews drop and all are valid reasons why it wasn't closer.

To overlook the overthrow of Wide open Ertz for a TD, the underthrow of Treggs that would have been a TD, and three other over thrown high balls to wide open WRs that would have made it closer is just not a fair criticism of the game.

You can put blinders on and say it was all on our suck ass WRs if you want. But there were other plays to be made that were on him.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 20 2016, 11:05 PM) *
Underthrew the long ball.

Was high on passes too often.

Threw into double coverage.

Threw to Shermans side instead of the other guy and didn't abuse Chancelor in coverage.

Didn't run with it to help matters out.

Very disappointing. He's a below average NFL QB.

There were throws to be made. We may not have won because our D sucked, but we would have had a shot.

He had a bad day, and made some rookie mistakes --- without any weapons to speak of --- so now he's a below average QB? That's hilarious.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 20 2016, 11:05 PM) *
Underthrew the long ball.

Was high on passes too often.

Threw into double coverage.

Threw to Shermans side instead of the other guy and didn't abuse Chancelor in coverage.

Didn't run with it to help matters out.

Very disappointing. He's a below average NFL QB.

There were throws to be made. We may not have won because our D sucked, but we would have had a shot.
It's fair to say he didn't play well but to say he's a below average NFL QB ignores the circumstances. Knowing that he has bottom level production from his receivers is probably making the rookie try too hard to be perfect. Name a receiver he should trust to make a routine play. His most productive receiver drops catchable passes with some regularity and the others would either be on the bench or on the street.

I'm truly confused when Wentz is blamed or judged harshly considering his level of experience before coming to the NFL and during training camp coupled with the level of talent he has to work with. It's why the plan was to keep him on the bench for a year learning behind Bradford/Daniel.

The need for a solid CB is obvious but a certifiable #1 WR is THE priority if the Eagles don't want to send Wentz down the trash chute of talented young QBs!
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 21 2016, 08:32 AM) *
It's fair to say he didn't play well but to say he's a below average NFL QB ignores the circumstances. Knowing that he has bottom level production from his receivers is probably making the rookie try too hard to be perfect. Name a receiver he should trust to make a routine play. His most productive receiver drops catchable passes with some regularity and the others would either be on the bench or on the street.

I'm truly confused when Wentz is blamed or judged harshly considering his level of experience before coming to the NFL and during training camp coupled with the level of talent he has to work with. It's why the plan was to keep him on the bench for a year learning behind Bradford/Daniel.

The need for a solid CB is obvious but a certifiable #1 WR is THE priority if the Eagles don't want to send Wentz down the trash chute of talented young QBs!

Prior to the start of the season when Sammy Sleeves was our projected starter, I was just fine with having Wentz learn from the sidelines. Not the whole season, but for about 10 games; kind of like the Pedey/McNabb situation. I figured this year was a 6 win year anyway.

But, after being thrust into the starting position because of a trade with minny that nobody in their right mind could refuse, he got the keys to the not exactly a Mercedes car handed to him, and for a guy who didn't even get to run with 1st team in the preseason and not a ton of division II college experience behind him, he has exceeded my expectations from day one with his poise and skill, and now I am glad he started from day one.

Having him watch from the sidelines for even 10 games would have been a waste. Unlike a Ryan Leaf bust who didn't have the head to handle it, Wentz absolutely does. He'll learn from this, put it behind him and move on.

JUST GET THE GUY SOME HELP!!!
CT_Eagle
Wentz had a bad day but he is a rookie. He is going to have bad days, especially when the running game is not clicking. The only weapons he has on this team that are above average are the tight ends. I don't mean to discount Sproles but he is not suited to being an every down RB. The WRs and RBs are sub-par.

With all of that said, Wentz seems to have the opposite problem of McNabb. McNabb was notorious for his worm burners. Wentz has been consistently overthrowing receivers for several weeks now. The good news is that it is a mechanical problem and can be corrected. My biggest concern with Wentz right now is his accuracy on anything but short throws. Hopefully this all because of a lack of a deep threat but so far I am not seeing that mid range to deep accuracy.
HobbEs
I thought he played as well as can be expected given the circumstances. He has no receivers, Ertz is overrated and he had no running game with Sproles and Matthews out. Let's not forget he's got a rookie head coach who is also learning on the job.

The kid's got a long way to go but right now he's the least of our problems...
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 21 2016, 06:14 AM) *
You can point to the Agholar drop, the Agholar penalty, the Matthews drop and all are valid reasons why it wasn't closer.

To overlook the overthrow of Wide open Ertz for a TD

Didn't we score on this drive?

QUOTE
the underthrow of Treggs that would have been a TD

To suggest he missed a throw here is silly. The ball traveled 50 yards in the air and there were two defenders. It could have happened, sure, but I suspect that ball is completed less than 20% of the time league wide.
QUOTE
and three other over thrown high balls to wide open WRs that would have made it closer is just not a fair criticism of the game.

This makes the comical assumption that any one of these balls would have been caught.
QUOTE
You can put blinders on and say it was all on our suck ass WRs if you want. But there were other plays to be made that were on him.

I'm by no means suggesting he was perfect yesterday. But unfortunately that is the standard by which he is required to play right now. Which is a completely unreasonable expectation for a rookie QB against a great defense in a brutal environment.

If Agholor is simply sitting on the bench, we very reasonably win a game that we were totally outmatched in. It's almost inconceivable how bad he is.
D Rock
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 21 2016, 12:32 PM) *
It's fair to say he didn't play well but to say he's a below average NFL QB ignores the circumstances. Knowing that he has bottom level production from his receivers is probably making the rookie try too hard to be perfect. Name a receiver he should trust to make a routine play. His most productive receiver drops catchable passes with some regularity and the others would either be on the bench or on the street.

I'm truly confused when Wentz is blamed or judged harshly considering his level of experience before coming to the NFL and during training camp coupled with the level of talent he has to work with. It's why the plan was to keep him on the bench for a year learning behind Bradford/Daniel.

The need for a solid CB is obvious but a certifiable #1 WR is THE priority if the Eagles don't want to send Wentz down the trash chute of talented young QBs!

We need a certifiable #1 AND #2 receiver. We've got a good 3 in Matthews, but that's it.
Zero
QUOTE (D Rock @ Nov 21 2016, 11:38 AM) *
We need a certifiable #1 AND #2 receiver. We've got a good 3 in Matthews, but that's it.

Maybe, but just a#1 would make a world of difference to the kid.
The Franchise
Wentz played like an NFL QB with no receivers, and shitty playcalling, in a notorious road stadium against one of the toughest secondaries in memory.

Same old story. Pederson is fast getting into the dog house. Wentz will be fine if we can get a serviceable receiver.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 20 2016, 10:05 PM) *
Underthrew the long ball.

Was high on passes too often.

Threw into double coverage.

Threw to Shermans side instead of the other guy and didn't abuse Chancelor in coverage.

Didn't run with it to help matters out.

Very disappointing. He's a below average NFL QB.

There were throws to be made. We may not have won because our D sucked, but we would have had a shot.


wasting your breath
Zero
He's a rookie. You two need a breathalyzer. laugh.gif
rumply
Wentz is getting a big pass all season long as far as I am concerned due to the abysmal receivers he is throwing to.

What sort of confidence could any rookie QB expect to develop game after game when they have these fucking morons drop simple passes & then blow major plays because they cant line up correctly?

Bring anyone up from the practice squad to replace Agholor, anyone, he can't play again. & get Matthews fitted for a pair of fucking glasses.

/rant
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 20 2016, 11:35 PM) *
But even with the shit WRs we had today, he could have made it much closer

Agreed. He has regressed dramatically post-bye, with more bad games than good. Rookie or not, it's justifiable to say that he's a below average NFL QB, until he proves otherwise.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 21 2016, 05:25 PM) *
Agreed. He has regressed dramatically post-bye, with more bad games than good. Rookie or not, it's justifiable to say that he's a below average NFL QB, until he proves otherwise.


exactly correct....He is playing with the same WRs as last year and they are not great but he missed a lot of throws yesterday...and he has not been good on long throws save for 2 or 3. It is cause for concern....it is not a claim that he is a bust, just that his progression is going the wrong way...of course to say that here is like treason regardless of how true it is.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 21 2016, 02:49 PM) *
He's a rookie. You two need a breathalyzer. laugh.gif


and you need the blinders removed...take away the 5 yard passes and he is not doing well.....and he seems to really tighten up at the end of halves.....he did it again yesterday
nephillymike
I am not saying that Wentz won't be a good NFL QB or even better than that.

I'm just saying that as an NFL QB, to date, his play has been below average. That is all.

He's got a 76 passer rating over the last 7 games.

Now maybe if you judge him as a ROOKIE NFL QB, maybe he is playing at an above average or good level.

It was an obvious statement, I thought.

In his defense, he couldn't call audibles. But that doesn't excuse the missed passes. If he puts it where it needs to be and they drop it, then not on him.

He had opportunities.
mcnabbulous
Every QB misses throws during the game.

The difference is that most teams have players who can capitalize when their QB makes the throws. Carson rarely gets that.

And sometimes they bail the QB when he doesn't make the throws. Carson never gets that.

Even the routine has become a struggle for this receiving unit. I've never seen anything like it.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 21 2016, 11:05 PM) *
Even the routine has become a struggle for this receiving unit. I've never seen anything like it.

I take exception with "has become." This has been going on for years and it's really aggravating.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 22 2016, 07:34 AM) *
I take exception with "has become." This has been going on for years and it's really aggravating.

Last year they were awful too, but our offense was designed in a way where it wasn't quite as detrimental. Not to say it didn't hurt, but Chip's offense was predicated on explosive plays. We were inherently more boom or bust.

Under Doug, we are more ball control and methodical. When these guys fuck up, we don't have the big play ability, explosive ability to make up for it later.

It's why that fucking illegal formation was such an absolute killer. The one fucking time Ertz actually makes a play after the catch.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 22 2016, 11:07 AM) *
Last year they were awful too, but our offense was designed in a way where it wasn't quite as detrimental. Not to say it didn't hurt, but Chip's offense was predicated on explosive plays. We were inherently more boom or bust.

Under Doug, we are more ball control and methodical. When these guys fuck up, we don't have the big play ability, explosive ability to make up for it later.

It's why that fucking illegal formation was such an absolute killer. The one fucking time Ertz actually makes a play after the catch.


Really?...aren't you the guy that bitched about all the short passes?....lol I think you confuse the volume of plays run in a short time for "explosive" plays...how do you have the same shitty WRs making explosive plays?

I think it is pretty clear...the WRs sucked last year....it is amplified this year because we have a rookie QB....I guess it was unrealistic to expect more but I guess it is a growing year that teased us early..
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 22 2016, 01:59 PM) *
Really?...aren't you the guy that bitched about all the short passes?....lol

No. I'm the one that bitched about our lack of mid range passes. Because all Sam could do (and still can do) is throw deep or check down. He has no ability to attack the middle of the field.

QUOTE
I think you confuse the volume of plays run in a short time for "explosive" plays...how do you have the same shitty WRs making explosive plays?

No, I don't. Under Chip, regardless of who was playing QB, we had explosive plays due to tempo and scheme.

QUOTE
I think it is pretty clear...the WRs sucked last year....it is amplified this year because we have a rookie QB....I guess it was unrealistic to expect more but I guess it is a growing year that teased us early..

Our offense is just as productive this year. Despite having a rookie QB.
nephillymike
Saw this last night on CSN.

Over the last six games, Wentz has the lowest QB rating in the league.

That was a shock.

I would have thought mid to low twenties.

Ouch!
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 22 2016, 08:41 PM) *
Saw this last night on CSN.

Over the last six games, Wentz has the lowest QB rating in the league.

That was a shock.

I would have thought mid to low twenties.

Ouch!


2 and 5 since the bye.
Joegrane
Yes but they also pointed out the following stats.

QUOTE
It’s important when looking at Wentz’s last chunk of games to take into account that the Eagles’ last seven opponents – the Lions, Redskins, Vikings, Cowboys, Giants, Falcons and Seahawks – have a combined 47-21-2 record.

All seven have winning records and, in fact, they are the only NFC teams with winning records.

Of the Eagles’ next four opponents – the Packers, Bengals, Redskins and Ravens – only the Redskins have a winning record.
http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-eagl...-tough-schedule


Considering their performance this season at home and the mostly competitive games on the road, would it surprise anyone if they went on to win 4 more games this season?

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 22 2016, 09:41 PM) *
Saw this last night on CSN.

Over the last six games, Wentz has the lowest QB rating in the league.

That was a shock.

I would have thought mid to low twenties.

Ouch!

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Nov 22 2016, 11:50 PM) *
Considering their performance this season at home and the mostly competitive games on the road, would it surprise anyone if they went on to win 4 more games this season?

I would be disappointed if they don't. Frankly, all 6 should be very winnable.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Nov 22 2016, 11:50 PM) *
Yes but they also pointed out the following stats.



Considering their performance this season at home and the mostly competitive games on the road, would it surprise anyone if they went on to win 4 more games this season?

They need 10 for the playoffs.

2,3 or 4 wins has the same early January T times with no improvement of draft pick to show for it.
The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 23 2016, 12:26 AM) *
They need 10 for the playoffs.

2,3 or 4 wins has the same early January T times with no improvement of draft pick to show for it.


Both wild cards will come from the East. Assuming Dallas beats the Redskins this week, 9 wins and in is still a possibility assuming we beat them in our 2nd meeting. But likely 10 wins will be needed. It helps that Dallas should have home field wrapped up by the end, giving us a potential garbage win that could decide the playoffs.

But for sure, Green Bay is a must win.
Rick
Just funny that some around here are down on Wentz while Sherman and Pete Carroll are both saying he's going to be very good. I guess these two don't know anything about how good a player is...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 23 2016, 06:05 AM) *
Just funny that some around here are down on Wentz while Sherman and Pete Carroll are both saying he's going to be very good. I guess these two don't know anything about how good a player is...

I don't see that anyone in this thread said he wasn't going to be any good.

My statement was that his play this year has been below average.

I did not put any rookie qualifiers on that statement.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 23 2016, 07:14 AM) *
I don't see that anyone in this thread said he wasn't going to be any good.

My statement was that his play this year has been below average.

I did not put any rookie qualifiers on that statement.

I wonder how Wentz would be playing if he were throwing to Maclin and DJax and handing off to Shady.

Yes, this is a Fuck Chip Kelly post. mad.gif
samaroo
God, do you guys remember arguing last year about whether all the drops were the WRs fault or bradford's? I've always said that if you can touch it with your hands, you should catch it. But it was such an epidemic last year (that seemed to affect every receiver) that I thought it had to be the QB. No way they ALL suck that bad!

I wish I was right about that...
Zero
QUOTE (samaroo @ Nov 23 2016, 10:23 AM) *
God, do you guys remember arguing last year about whether all the drops were the WRs fault or bradford's? I've always said that if you can touch it with your hands, you should catch it. But it was such an epidemic last year (that seemed to affect every receiver) that I thought it had to be the QB. No way they ALL suck that bad!

I wish I was right about that...

I remember. What I don't understand is how this team can be so bad at getting WRs who can catch the ball. I hope Turner can get open.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 23 2016, 06:14 AM) *
I don't see that anyone in this thread said he wasn't going to be any good.

My statement was that his play this year has been below average.

I did not put any rookie qualifiers on that statement.


It doesn't matter....any criticism of his play means you are racist....lololol

But it is funny reading the excuses....oh wait...they are not excuses...lol

The kid may be good or even great....that is not the point but he is having a clear rough patch....at least he does not have to worry about the ROY anymore.
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ Nov 23 2016, 09:23 AM) *
God, do you guys remember arguing last year about whether all the drops were the WRs fault or bradford's? I've always said that if you can touch it with your hands, you should catch it. But it was such an epidemic last year (that seemed to affect every receiver) that I thought it had to be the QB. No way they ALL suck that bad!

I wish I was right about that...

I always put a higher % of blame on the QB's for bad throws than is customary.

I know how tough it is to catch a ball if it is four feet behind you if you are running full speed the other way. In a semi clean pocket, it is easier to throw it on target, than to catch it when it is behind you.

However, even allowing for that, he's missed too many passes.

He will improve, but future performance isn't in the grading rubric.

Zero
He did make mistakes, probably that could have turned the game around. But on the "he's a rookie" side, he apparently did some impressive things too. It's frustrating seeing him come back to earth after his first few games, but it sounds like some pretty knowledgeable people think Roseman did the right thing getting Wentz. Now he needs to do the right thing and get him some help.
QUOTE
“He’s gonna be really good,” Carroll said. “Did you see the number of times he looked us off? He looked us off really well. He was looking off on the curl routes [and] he was moving linebackers; that’s fantastic stuff for a guy to do. He did it on the touchdown play; he did it on two or three other plays. He was really good. That’s really advanced stuff. This is a guy who hasn’t played very much.

“He’s gonna be a great player. There’s no question. He’s got everything you need. He’s got great poise, he’s tough, he’s fast, he’s strong and he’s got some sense already — and he was changing plays and he handled the noise. He did a great job. He really did.”

QUOTE
Daniel Jeremiah
‏@MoveTheSticks
He makes some rookie mistakes but Wentz is going to be REALLY good. Makes some wow throws & has + poise. Needs some playmakers around him.
Linc ...
Rick
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 24 2016, 07:49 AM) *
He did make mistakes, probably that could have turned the game around. But on the "he's a rookie" side, he apparently did some impressive things too. It's frustrating seeing him come back to earth after his first few games, but it sounds like some pretty knowledgeable people think Roseman did the right thing getting Wentz. Now he needs to do the right thing and get him some help.

Linc ...

Don't try to use logic. Some people around here think they know more than the people who actually play/coach the game in the NFL...
Zero
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 24 2016, 09:19 AM) *
Don't try to use logic. Some people around here think they know more than the people who actually play/coach the game in the NFL...

In fairness, I think the critics are only saying he's not playing well. I don't think that's in dispute but some are looking more at the future instead of the present. For one, I didn't expect a playoff game this year and my green isn't boiling because of Wentz. I'm more upset about the continued inability of the receivers to hold on to the fucking ball and win some contested passes than I am a QB making rookie mistakes in what I viewed as a growth year. I'm anticipating Wentz to improve a lot next year but these WRs have been doing this for at least two years. It has to STOP!
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 24 2016, 08:19 AM) *
Don't try to use logic. Some people around here think they know more than the people who actually play/coach the game in the NFL...

The irony is that those same people that coach/play in the NFL will draft and continue to play players that you don't think are suitable for the NFL.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 24 2016, 05:50 PM) *
The irony is that those same people that coach/play in the NFL will draft and continue to play players that you don't think are suitable for the NFL.

And they'll continue to get some right and some wrong. Just as we do.

The difference is that we're criticising based on hindsight because we can see (for example) Agholor failing badly as a professional. They have to try to predict how well someone will do before the player has played a professional snap.
Phits
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Nov 24 2016, 02:53 PM) *
And they'll continue to get some right and some wrong. Just as we do.

The difference is that we're criticising based on hindsight because we can see (for example) Agholor failing badly as a professional. They have to try to predict how well someone will do before the player has played a professional snap.

Makes you wonder how well Agholar performs in practices?
Joegrane
That's a very good point. If they see that NA performs well in practice, but freezes mentally in games, I can understand Pederson's attitude.

I could also then understand a change in responsibilities. He would not be a "starter" and would have fewer snaps.

QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 24 2016, 07:39 PM) *
Makes you wonder how well Agholar performs in practices?

Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 24 2016, 01:50 PM) *
The irony is that those same people that coach/play in the NFL will draft and continue to play players that you don't think are suitable for the NFL.

And certain people around here will pretend to know more about this than the people who look at these kids almost 24/7...
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 24 2016, 07:39 PM) *
Makes you wonder how well Agholar performs in practices?

Assuming he's performing in practices, I wonder how he would do in games if he didn't think there was the need for him to be a difference maker. Not meant to excuse his lack of performance, but we're all different and if he thinks he needs to be the Odell Beckham of the Eagles maybe "pressing" is an understatement when looking at his play. I hope the shrink helps but I still think a proven vet could potentially be the answer.

Next year he has a cap hit of almost $5 mil. It'll cost the team $2.4 dead money to cut him and they're starting off near the bottom of the league in cap space to begin with. It would sure be nice if he found a way to get his head straight and play like he did in college.
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 25 2016, 07:32 AM) *
And certain people around here will pretend to know more about this than the people who look at these kids almost 24/7...

It's good to know that you're aware of your hypocrisy.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.