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Phits
I'm starting to think he's allergic to game winning drives.
mcnabbulous
Lol. You're a trip.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 6 2016, 05:51 PM) *
I'm starting to think he's allergic to game winning drives.

C'mon. Matthews screwed the pooch on that one. Why would the ball be thrown to the inside where the defender is? Wentz didn't have a great game, but he did some good things. This is one more loss on dumbass play calling.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 6 2016, 05:11 PM) *
C'mon. Matthews screwed the pooch on that one. Why would the ball be thrown to the inside where the defender is? Wentz didn't have a great game, but he did some good things. This is one more loss on dumbass play calling.

I actually don't think it was a playcalling issue. I'm glad they opened it up. But literally no one will make a play for us. It's ridiculous.
Rick
Wentz is quickly becoming Tony Romoesque in his inability to get things done during crunch time. However, his receivers still never step up and make a play for him. That's not helping anything...
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 06:19 PM) *
I actually don't think it was a playcalling issue. I'm glad they opened it up. But literally no one will make a play for us. It's ridiculous.

I thought it was an unwritten rule to take the points on the road. He sacrificed two field goals, gave up 6 points that would have won the game.
mcnabbulous
He legitimately threw a perfect pass on 4th down and his dipshit receiver looked over the wrong shoulder. I don't know what else to tell you guys.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 6 2016, 05:42 PM) *
I thought it was an unwritten rule to take the points on the road. He sacrificed two field goals, gave up 6 points that would have won the game.

I don't subscribe to that. I'm glad he was aggressive. Especially after last week.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 06:44 PM) *
I don't subscribe to that. I'm glad he was aggressive. Especially after last week.

I like him being aggressive but not stupid. Take the points.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 06:43 PM) *
He legitimately threw a perfect pass on 4th down and his dipshit receiver looked over the wrong shoulder. I don't know what else to tell you guys.

Agreed. Perfect pass where only the receiver could get it and it was in perfect location. Except Mathews blew it.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 6 2016, 05:46 PM) *
I like him being aggressive but not stupid. Take the points.

The way our defense was playing, I get the desire to put up more than 3.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 06:49 PM) *
The way our defense was playing, I get the desire to put up more than 3.

As it turns out they were both the wrong call and it cost us the game.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 6 2016, 05:51 PM) *
As it turns out they were both the wrong call and it cost us the game.

Sure with hindsight. But I don't think about it that way. I'm happy with Doug being aggressive and won't fault him for it.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 10:53 PM) *
Sure with hindsight. But I don't think about it that way. I'm happy with Doug being aggressive and won't fault him for it.

I wanted us to kick the three points on both occasions so no hindsight here, just frustration at Pederson playcalling like he's a 12 year old on Madden. There are times when it is correct to be aggressive, but those weren't such times.

Of course, there is no guarantee that we'd have scored both given that we then had a FG blocked, but it would still have been the correct decision at the time. It was far too early to be chasing the scoreboard or worrying that our defence couldn't stop them.
Reality Fan
This loss was far more on the QB than on any WR.....he made a bunch of horrible throws....2 to DGB that were nowhere near him....both picks to start the game were horrible...

Call it like it is....he is now playing exactly like a rookie...and not a good one...and to say the WR was looking inside on a 4th down pass ignores the fact that it was indeed 4th down. He has now had 4 chances to engineer a 4th quarter drive to win or tie....he is 0-4.
mcnabbulous
Haha. He threw two bad picks early but was quite good beyond that. The end of the game absolutely was not on him.

If you want to blame him for the loss cause of the picks, so be it. But he threw the right pass to win the game.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 6 2016, 07:27 PM) *
This loss was far more on the QB than on any WR.....he made a bunch of horrible throws....2 to DGB that were nowhere near him....both picks to start the game were horrible...

Call it like it is....he is now playing exactly like a rookie...and not a good one...and to say the WR was looking inside on a 4th down pass ignores the fact that it was indeed 4th down. He has now had 4 chances to engineer a 4th quarter drive to win or tie....he is 0-4.

I wouldn't go so far to the bad side for him. I will admit he seems to be struggling recognizing the blitz all of a sudden. That is certainly a rookie tendency.

He also was not throwing the ball well today even though his yardage number is good. He was inaccurate (the two INTs and even the one Treggs caught was underthrown, should have been a TD) and his ball was ugly...very ugly.

I think he needs some more work on his mechanics.
Phits
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 6 2016, 06:40 PM) *
Wentz is quickly becoming Tony Romoesque in his inability to get things done during crunch time. However, his receivers still never step up and make a play for him. That's not helping anything...

Agreed.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 6 2016, 07:27 PM) *
This loss was far more on the QB than on any WR.....he made a bunch of horrible throws....2 to DGB that were nowhere near him....both picks to start the game were horrible...

Call it like it is....he is now playing exactly like a rookie...and not a good one...and to say the WR was looking inside on a 4th down pass ignores the fact that it was indeed 4th down. He has now had 4 chances to engineer a 4th quarter drive to win or tie....he is 0-4.

^This.
While he may become the great QB that he seems to be capable of, he is far from it right now. For the time being, he doesn't appear to be that QB who will make the players around him better. We will have to get him serious help. Not just a good receiver but he needs a great one.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 6 2016, 07:31 PM) *
Haha. He threw two bad picks early but was quite good beyond that. The end of the game absolutely was not on him.

If you want to blame him for the loss cause of the picks, so be it. But he threw the right pass to win the game.


If you seriously think he played well today than there is little to discuss...he threw some nice balls but he threw plenty of lousy ones as well...he looked anything but "good" overall
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 6 2016, 07:53 PM) *
While he may become the great QB that he seems to be capable of, he is far from it right now. For the time being, he doesn't appear to be that QB who will make the players around him better. We will have to get him serious help. Not just a good receiver but he needs a great one.

I think this sums Wentz up perfectly. He may become that guy but, for now, he is not.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 6 2016, 06:57 PM) *
If you seriously think he played well today than there is little to discuss...he threw some nice balls but he threw plenty of lousy ones as well...he looked anything but "good" overall

Other than the two picks. Which were bad. He played well.

He threw the all 47 times. Of course there were lousy ones. He's a rookie. It sounds like you need to readjust your expectations.

If he had just one guy that would step up and make a play for him, we would be having a very different conversation.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 6 2016, 06:27 PM) *
This loss was far more on the QB than on any WR.....he made a bunch of horrible throws....2 to DGB that were nowhere near him....both picks to start the game were horrible...

Call it like it is....he is now playing exactly like a rookie...and not a good one...and to say the WR was looking inside on a 4th down pass ignores the fact that it was indeed 4th down. He has now had 4 chances to engineer a 4th quarter drive to win or tie....he is 0-4.

I agree.

For this game, my blame %'s:

Wentz. 60%
Pedey 25%
Suckass WR. 15%

And, Ertz still hasn't broken a tackle. SOFT! Good game catching the ball though.

The kid was bad.

Two horrendous picks.
Many throws off target that would have been caught. True excellent WR's may have had two of them, but most good WR's miss those.

We lost to Eli fucking Manning today. That says it all.

If you objectively looked at our schedule, you had to figure 3-3 in division. Lost three on road, now we get three at home.

Need 6-2 to get a playoff spot.

3 division wins, plus either ATL or GB, and need 2 of 3 of at CIN, BAL or SEA. Likely only 2 of those 5 are playoff teams, so if we beat the three non playoff teams, we can do it.

Was I the only one who thought Treggs was interfered with?

Fuck the Giants. We should have miracles them again today if the Kid and Matthews are on the same page, or if he throws a good pass.

And now we get ATL after the obligatory extra pre Eagles game rest.

It won't be easy.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 6 2016, 07:27 PM) *
to say the WR was looking inside on a 4th down pass ignores the fact that it was indeed 4th down. He has now had 4 chances to engineer a 4th quarter drive to win or tie....he is 0-4.

It was fourth down because the coach again failed to put points on the board when he had a chance. Those six points left on the field would have eliminated the need to throw the ball into the end zone on fourth down.
bwc2112
When has team with such major changes done something phenomenal. There is always a growing point and I see it. Our beloved team is not and can't be perfect. Agreed we have waited longer than most to put the right chemistry together.
I personally like what I see, with the exception of receivers. If TO wants back bring it, lets bring back Harold Carmichael to.
Or tell the fucking receivers coach to do his job and show them how to catch the Damn ball. a14.gif
JeeQ
I got on Wentz last week but this time Jordan absolutely blew it. The pass was on the money and unforunately our WRs biggest weakness, football IQ; reared it's ugly head again.

One WR was caught speeding with drugs and a loaded gun' thankfully he's cut

The other one admitted he doesn't care about drops while continuing to drop wide open passes every week

The last one, God bless him, just lacks the hands and football IQ to be anything more than a WR3... Unfortunately he's the best WR on our team by a wide margin

Not excusing Wentz's entire game (which was below average) but there was a chance to win this game
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 6 2016, 08:51 PM) *
It was fourth down because the coach again failed to put points on the board when he had a chance.

There's no guarantee that we would have come away with 6 points. The decision to go for it (on 4th down) and subsequent failure (twice) isn't the reason for the loss. Also, the offense's inability to capitalize on late game turnovers by the opposition isn't the reason for the loss....neither is it the 14 points we spotted NYG early in the game off of two interceptions. Problem is you start adding up all of these mistakes/miscalculations and it's a wonder we only lost by 5. We intercepted Eli on their 29 yard line just shy of 2 minutes left. I was certain that Wentz was going to shake the "come back" jinx. Alas, three straight incompletions made a 4th down end zone pass necessary.

QUOTE
Those six points left on the field would have eliminated the need to throw the ball into the end zone on fourth down.

Eagle2720
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 6 2016, 05:51 PM) *
I'm starting to think he's allergic to game winning drives.


I agree. I'm really disappointed he hasn't lead one yet. Four opportunities against 4 bad teams too.
Rick
QUOTE (Eagle2720 @ Nov 7 2016, 01:14 AM) *
I agree. I'm really disappointed he hasn't lead one yet. Four opportunities against 4 bad teams too.

Actually, 6 opportunities. He had two tries last week at the end that failed and two yesterday that failed.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 6 2016, 09:21 PM) *
There's no guarantee that we would have come away with 6 points. The decision to go for it (on 4th down) and subsequent failure (twice) isn't the reason for the loss. Also, the offense's inability to capitalize on late game turnovers by the opposition isn't the reason for the loss....neither is it the 14 points we spotted NYG early in the game off of two interceptions. Problem is you start adding up all of these mistakes/miscalculations and it's a wonder we only lost by 5. We intercepted Eli on their 29 yard line just shy of 2 minutes left. I was certain that Wentz was going to shake the "come back" jinx. Alas, three straight incompletions made a 4th down end zone pass necessary.
Correct, the reason for the loss was the Eagles played poorly and the coach made mistakes. But the game is largely about putting the odds in your favor and leaving six points unattempted was not doing that. Being aggressive is good and I like that in DP, but he has a kicker who is playing very well and the odds said he needed to take the points.
Eagle2720
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 7 2016, 07:00 AM) *
Actually, 6 opportunities. He had two tries last week at the end that failed and two yesterday that failed.


True, which now makes me even more disappointed.
Dreagon
He's a rookie QB who's being forced to start on a team that hasn't even had the chance to rebuild after its last coach let a lot of talent go. Give him some time.

And while I used to advocate getting him a stud wideout, I would like to amend that to focus on getting him a possession wide receiver and a tight end with good hands. He needs targets he can trust, and then focus on getting him the homerun threat.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Nov 7 2016, 08:11 AM) *
He's a rookie QB who's being forced to start on a team that hasn't even had the chance to rebuild after its last coach let a lot of talent go. Give him some time.

And while I used to advocate getting him a stud wideout, I would like to amend that to focus on getting him a possession wide receiver and a tight end with good hands. He needs targets he can trust, and then focus on getting him the homerun threat.


I'll amend it to anyone with hands at this point

I know Wentz can't have any trust in the offense because I sure don't.

I don't trust our RBs to make a 3rd and short or not fumble the ball in any given situation.

I don't trust our WRs to go make the big play or even line up 6 yards out on a 3 and 5. I don't even trust them to catch a wide open pass
Phits
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Nov 7 2016, 12:48 PM) *
I'll amend it to anyone with hands at this point

I know Wentz can't have any trust in the offense because I sure don't.

I don't trust our RBs to make a 3rd and short or not fumble the ball in any given situation.

I don't trust our WRs to go make the big play or even line up 6 yards out on a 3 and 5. I don't even trust them to catch a wide open pass

Wentz is the leader of the offense. If he can't trust them, he certainly can't trust himself.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 7 2016, 12:35 PM) *
Wentz is the leader of the offense. If he can't trust them, he certainly can't trust himself.

He's a rookie. The fact that we require him to be perfect is a nightmare scenario. This is the year he should be making mistakes and learning. We need other people to step up. If that won't happen, this year is done. And it won't be our rookie QBs fault.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 7 2016, 01:42 PM) *
He's a rookie. The fact that we require him to be perfect is a nightmare scenario. This is the year he should be making mistakes and learning. We need other people to step up. If that won't happen, this year is done. And it won't be our rookie QBs fault.

He's the leader of the team and the (new) face of the franchise. Unrealistic expectations come with the territory. Wentz' late game failings are concerning to me. We all know that he is a rookie. I hardly think anybody is expecting perfection from him, I certainly don't. However, there is nothing wrong with identifying his shortcomings/flaws; whether that is in the form of mechanics, execution or leadership. I fully expect him to rebound and become a version of the franchise QB I would like him to be. Until then he'll get praise for a job well done and criticism when he performs below expectations.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 7 2016, 12:55 PM) *
Unrealistic expectations come with the territory.

Step 1 is identifying the problem. On to step 2.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 7 2016, 12:35 PM) *
Wentz is the leader of the offense. If he can't trust them, he certainly can't trust himself.


He can only put the ball in their hands. He can't catch it for them too.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Nov 7 2016, 02:18 PM) *
He can only put the ball in their hands. He can't catch it for them too.

He can't get open for them. He can't break tackles for them. He can't not fumble for them.

He's been let down time after time. Expecting a rookie to overcome that is unreasonable.
Pila
While this was incredibly difficult to swallow, they are growing pains from a rookie coach and a rookie QB, and that of underwhelming skill at the skill positions. While highlighting the obvious coaching mistakes and play-calling, it's important to note that a team with bad coaching and a bad QB don't put themselves in a position to win the game at the end of every game.

So, shake it off. Chin up - the team is in good, young hands to build into something special.
Phits
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Nov 7 2016, 03:18 PM) *
He can only put the ball in their hands. He can't catch it for them too.

If that was his only problem then he would be perfect.
mcnabbulous
The problem is that because we don't have receivers able to threaten defenses, they are able to focus on Wentz. That increased pressure is fucking with his mechanics (which is a natural side effect) and decreasing his accuracy.

It's a vicious cycle.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 7 2016, 03:22 PM) *
He can't get open for them. He can't break tackles for them. He can't not fumble for them.

He's been let down time after time. Expecting a rookie to overcome that is unreasonable.


you can say that for a lot of QBs.....welcome to the real world
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 7 2016, 06:43 PM) *
The problem is that because we don't have receivers able to threaten defenses, they are able to focus on Wentz. That increased pressure is fucking with his mechanics (which is a natural side effect) and decreasing his accuracy.

It's a vicious cycle.


funny how you say this like the problem is new....though I am sure the irony escapes you

This is were he needs to learn
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 7 2016, 03:22 PM) *
He can't get open for them. He can't break tackles for them. He can't not fumble for them.

He's been let down time after time. Expecting a rookie to overcome that is unreasonable.


expecting any QB to overcome that is unreasonable
mcnabbulous
No. good QBs overcome roster deficiencies. Rookies don't. Bradford doesn't. Good QBs do.

Wentz isn't there yet.
bwc2112
For Christ sake, Dreagon is talking/ posting smarter than anyone of you so called fans.
If I could get a hold of Dutch. You Damn young kids would hear it.
If anyone of you can catch a football go for it, It's been done before. mad.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 7 2016, 07:19 PM) *
No. good QBs overcome roster deficiencies. Rookies don't. Bradford doesn't. Good QBs do.

Wentz isn't there yet.


lol...of course....the list is endless of QBs who overcome a weak line and lousy WRs....
mcnabbulous
Our OL hasn't been prohibitive since the Skins game.
Phits
QUOTE
Starting with the Lions game, the Eagles’ first of the season, we have the shortest final drive: one play. Carson Wentz wound up and launched an interception on first down, the final play of the drive. Zero net yards, zero points, and a loss.

The next week, the Eagles lost to Washington by seven points. They had the ball with four minutes left, down seven points. They ran eight plays for a net of 10 yards. Carson Wentz was 2 of 5 passing the ball, and the final play of the drive was a sack on third down. The Eagles punted it away and never got the ball back.

Against Dallas last week, the Eagles lost by six points in overtime. They had the ball with 1:13, with the game tied. The Birds ran four plays for a net of -11 yards. Carson Wentz completed one pass but was sacked twice, including on the final play of the drive before punting it away. The Eagles never got the ball back.

And yesterday, the Eagles had the ball with 1:48 left at the Giants’ 34-yard line. They ran five plays for a net of 17 yards. Carson Wentz completed one of five passes, including an incompletion on the final play of the drive, a fourth down.

So, on those drives: they ran 18 plays, gained a net 16 yards, and Wentz completed 4 of 12 passes.

We Are Not Closers....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 7 2016, 10:21 PM) *


it doesn't matter Phits....in Nabby's eyes Wentz's performance was Bradyesque....
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