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nephillymike
Pedey

"We're gonna get Big V ready for next week"

Are you going to make any changes on the offensive line?

"No. I think that sends a bad message to our players"

A bad message?

A bad message?

You can suck as bad as Kelce and Big V and still start the next game, that's the message.

A weak, Chip Kellyesque move of non accountability.

Been there done that.

Hey Doug, the only message they need to hear is that their playing time is performance based.

A weak move.

With that statement, his grace period has just ended.

Bad message my ass.

He should do a Schwartz and say play like pussies, get beat up like pussies.

Disgrace.
mcnabbulous
Meh. Making mass changes isn't the answer. We had a terrible matchup against a star in his first start. No need to overreact.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2016, 09:57 PM) *
Meh. Making mass changes isn't the answer. We had a terrible matchup against a star in his first start. No need to overreact.

The two one arm pushes that pushed Big V back eight yards were all I needed to see.

He doesn't have the strength yet.

Sit him. Send him to the weight room.

You know how weak you need to be to get pushed back like that with one arm by a guy who weighs less than you?

You haven't seen enough of Kelce yet?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2016, 10:05 PM) *
The two one arm pushes that pushed Big V back eight yards were all I needed to see.

He doesn't have the strength yet.

Sit him. Send him to the weight room.

You know how weak you need to be to get pushed back like that with one arm by a guy who weighs less than you?

I think he could probably kick both our asses.
QUOTE
You haven't seen enough of Kelce yet?

Yeah I mentioned elsewhere. He's garbage.
Joegrane
Maybe the message is that when you work hard and you are improving, we are not going to dump you if you have a bad game against an elite opponent.

In contrast, Reuben Randle received a different "message."

I fear the other part of the message is that their backup OGs stink.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2016, 10:52 PM) *
Pedey

"We're gonna get Big V ready for next week"

Are you going to make any changes on the offensive line?

"No. I think that sends a bad message to our players"

A bad message?

A bad message?

You can suck as bad as Kelce and Big V and still start the next game, that's the message.

...

SAM I Am
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 16 2016, 10:57 PM) *
Meh. Making mass changes isn't the answer. We had a terrible matchup against a star in his first start. No need to overreact.

Agree. But, I still don't know why they felt they could leave Vaitai out there on that island all by himself. Obviously, the guy wasn't ready for that, so the blame does go to coaching there.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 16 2016, 10:52 PM) *
Pedey

"We're gonna get Big V ready for next week"

Are you going to make any changes on the offensive line?

"No. I think that sends a bad message to our players"

A bad message?

A bad message?

You can suck as bad as Kelce and Big V and still start the next game, that's the message.

A weak, Chip Kellyesque move of non accountability.

Been there done that.

Hey Doug, the only message they need to hear is that their playing time is performance based.

A weak move.

With that statement, his grace period has just ended.

Bad message my ass.

He should do a Schwartz and say play like pussies, get beat up like pussies.

Disgrace.

Suggested alternatives? We don't want a perception of panic. If they move Barbre out to RT and Wiz to LG there will be an adjustment period at two spots ... an argument they used. That still doesn't address Kelce.

The relevant point is protecting the development of Wentz. What's the best way to accomplish that? My guess would be to give Big V some help right now. Do they have upgrades for RT, C and then LG? I just don't think it's a slam dunk dumb move he's making.
HobbEs
It's going to be a LONG 10 weeks. I hope Wentz survives it.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 16 2016, 08:38 PM) *
Maybe the message is that when you work hard and you are improving, we are not going to dump you if you have a bad game against an elite opponent.

In contrast, Reuben Randle received a different "message."

I fear the other part of the message is that their backup OGs stink.


What he really wanted to say was:

"We don't have any better options so I have to play this guy; thanks a lot Lane!"

But then he'd be fired
The Franchise
What's he supposed to do? Publicly shame the guy?
Eyrie
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Oct 17 2016, 02:28 PM) *
It's going to be a LONG 10 weeks. I hope Wentz survives it.

And doesn't get any bad habits along the way.

I'm always emphasised the importance of the OL and the need to put proper resources into the line. Yesterday's game demonstrated what happens when you try to replace the #4 overall with a late round pick who hasn't got a clue. The whole offense comes to a halt.

I'd rather fix the problem by making the two changes of Barbre to RT and inserting Wiz than watch Wentz get hit as Vaitai struggles.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2016, 01:57 PM) *
And doesn't get any bad habits along the way.

I'm always emphasised the importance of the OL and the need to put proper resources into the line. Yesterday's game demonstrated what happens when you try to replace the #4 overall with a late round pick who hasn't got a clue. The whole offense comes to a halt.

I'd rather fix the problem by making the two changes of Barbre to RT and inserting Wiz than watch Wentz get hit as Vaitai struggles.

This is not on our FO. They weren't prepared for Lane to fuck us over again, nor should they have been. It's impossible to have great depth these days and we are definitely thin on the OL.

But make no mistake, this isn't on the coaches or the FO. This is on Lane.

We will see improvement from big V, but all rookies struggle. I'd probably rather have Wiz and Barbre playing, but I suspect there is a reason we're not seeing it.

It's definitely a shitty situation to be in, and Carson forming bad habits is easily the biggest cause for concern, but I'm confident in seeing how he dealt with adversity yesterday that he's well prepared for it.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2016, 04:24 PM) *
Carson forming bad habits is easily the biggest cause for concern, but I'm confident in seeing how he dealt with adversity yesterday that he's well prepared for it.

Hopefully he learns to throw the ball away instead of taking the sack.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2016, 09:24 PM) *
This is not on our FO. They weren't prepared for Lane to fuck us over again, nor should they have been. It's impossible to have great depth these days and we are definitely thin on the OL.

But make no mistake, this isn't on the coaches or the FO. This is on Lane.

We will see improvement from big V, but all rookies struggle. I'd probably rather have Wiz and Barbre playing, but I suspect there is a reason we're not seeing it.

It's definitely a shitty situation to be in, and Carson forming bad habits is easily the biggest cause for concern, but I'm confident in seeing how he dealt with adversity yesterday that he's well prepared for it.

I agree that it's Johnson's fault that we're in this mess, but blame must go to the coaches for thinking that a raw late round rookie should be our first choice replacement at T.

It's not like Vaitai showed anything in preseason.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 17 2016, 04:31 PM) *
I agree that it's Johnson's fault that we're in this mess, but blame must go to the coaches for thinking that a raw late round rookie should be our first choice replacement at T.

It's not like Vaitai showed anything in preseason.

Barbre has never shown himself to be acceptable on the outside either though.
nephillymike
nm
nephillymike
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 17 2016, 01:38 PM) *
What's he supposed to do? Publicly shame the guy?

"I know it didn't look good early on, but V wasn't the only problem. He did have a good couple weeks of practice and he battled through the entire game. Me and the other coaches will look at the play of the entire OL and figure out the best way to move forward"

See how that works?

You leave the door open. You don't slam the kid, but give yourself options, and from my perspective, you give the coaches time to come to their senses.

And think about this:

Kerrigan used his right arm because his left elbow was dislocated the prior week.

Next week's DE has two good arms!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2016, 06:25 PM) *
Barbre has never shown himself to be acceptable on the outside either though.


He played pretty well at left tackle when Peters got hurt in Green Bay 2 years ago....the only reason they did not want to move him is that he was playing well at LG. He is the far better option but then who plays LG.....I get the idea that they do not like Wiz.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 17 2016, 07:09 PM) *
"I know it didn't look good early on, but V wasn't the only problem. He did have a good couple weeks of practice and he battled through the entire game. Me and the other coaches will look at the play of the entire OL and figure out the best way to move forward"

See how that works?

You leave the door open. You don't slam the kid, but give yourself options, and from my perspective, you give the coaches time to come to their senses.

And think about this:

Kerrigan used his right arm because his left elbow was dislocated the prior week.

Next week's DE has two good arms!

Honestly, you kind of sound like my wife when she gets pissed at me for not handling a situation the same way she would have.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 17 2016, 10:17 PM) *
Honestly, you kind of sound like my wife when she gets pissed at me for not handling a situation the same way she would have.

Just to be clear, if you had to have an Eagles win on Sunday you start Big V, right?

Say you had 10K on the game, Big V is your ticket to riches, right?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 18 2016, 05:25 AM) *
Just to be clear, if you had to have an Eagles win on Sunday you start Big V, right?

Say you had 10K on the game, Big V is your ticket to riches, right?

I don't have as much information as Doug does. His livelihood depends on these types of decisions, so I suspect he's using common logic to make them.
Joegrane
His livelihood does not depend on Ws this year. He is building for the future.

Maybe he wants to know if Big V is part of his O Line for the future or just a short-term backup.

It is not likely that a 5th rounder is going to be his long term starter at Rt OT; hopefully he can be the #1 backup at OT, the replacement for D Kelly.

Hopefully the Vikes make it to the SB so the Eagles have another 2nd rounder and the Eagles can have a shot at picking CB, OT, RB in rounds 1 and 2.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 18 2016, 09:18 AM) *
I don't have as much information as Doug does. His livelihood depends on these types of decisions, so I suspect he's using common logic to make them.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 18 2016, 09:18 AM) *
I don't have as much information as Doug does. His livelihood depends on these types of decisions, so I suspect he's using common logic to make them.


This sounds much like the logic used by one of the evening guys on WIP when a caller asked why they don't use DGB more. The crux of his answer was that perhaps Doug had more information and I could not help but think that if that was the case than why would Barner and Smallwood not play more instead of only when Matthews was hurt or even when he was healthy. I have often thought the same way you do about this until I realized that sometimes these guys come up with a plan and they never veer from it regardless of how wise it is to do so, evidence be damned.
mcnabbulous
It's possible Doug is just too hardheaded to see the obvious, but I've just never seen enough from Barbre to believe he'd be a dramatic improvement on the outside.

I am surprised by how little confidence they have in Wiz though. He's been a capable starter throughout his career.

With that said, I would think a bunch of ex-QBs would be doing everything possible to make sure their huge rookie investment is comfortable.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 18 2016, 03:57 PM) *
It's possible Doug is just too hardheaded to see the obvious, but I've just never seen enough from Barbre to believe he'd be a dramatic improvement on the outside.

I am surprised by how little confidence they have in Wiz though. He's been a capable starter throughout his career.

With that said, I would think a bunch of ex-QBs would be doing everything possible to make sure their huge rookie investment is comfortable.

It's not so much that anyone thinks that Barbre is a capable RT so much as we believe he is a better option there than Vaitai.

The focus this years has to be on developing Wentz, not finding out if a fifth round pick can eventually learn enough to maybe be our third T at some point in the future. So I want Wentz to have the best protection possible.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 18 2016, 02:17 PM) *
It's not so much that anyone thinks that Barbre is a capable RT so much as we believe he is a better option there than Vaitai.

The focus this years has to be on developing Wentz, not finding out if a fifth round pick can eventually learn enough to maybe be our third T at some point in the future. So I want Wentz to have the best protection possible.

But maybe the combination of Barbre outside and Wiz inside is worse than the combination of V outside and Barbre inside.

Like I said, I suspect a bunch of ex QBs want the same things for Wentz as you do.
Joegrane
I heard Brian Baldinger recently critique DGB. It was not flattering but not hopeless either.

He pointed out an "out" where DGB slipped on his break. That messed up the timing of the play. The throw was incomplete and looked high but was not. He said DGB did not do something with his hips to minimize the chances of problems during the break.

He said the QB and coach have reason to not trust DGB yet.

Of course the guy has a high ceiling from a physical standpoint. We'll see if he ever develops. Apparently the Titans did not think he would.

He still looks like a contributor. He certainly makes DBs miss tackles, the only Eagles WR to do that. He is also a weapon in the Red zone and makes other plays with his length.

For this year the deal to move Kelly for DGB looks bad for the Eagles; however, they are not concerned about this year. They are building for the future. Big V and DGB may be sold, if unspectacular contributors over the medium to long term.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 18 2016, 10:41 AM) *
This sounds much like the logic used by one of the evening guys on WIP when a caller asked why they don't use DGB more. The crux of his answer was that perhaps Doug had more information and I could not help but think that if that was the case than why would Barner and Smallwood not play more instead of only when Matthews was hurt or even when he was healthy. I have often thought the same way you do about this until I realized that sometimes these guys come up with a plan and they never veer from it regardless of how wise it is to do so, evidence be damned.

D Rock
At worst...

DGB is a significant upgrade from Nelson pHuqhuin AHgoHlor!
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 18 2016, 03:23 PM) *
I heard Brian Baldinger recently critique DGB. It was not flattering but not hopeless either.

He pointed out an "out" where DGB slipped on his break. That messed up the timing of the play. The throw was incomplete and looked high but was not. He said DGB did not do something with his hips to minimize the chances of problems during the break.

He said the QB and coach have reason to not trust DGB yet.

Of course the guy has a high ceiling from a physical standpoint. We'll see if he ever develops. Apparently the Titans did not think he would.

He still looks like a contributor. He certainly makes DBs miss tackles, the only Eagles WR to do that. He is also a weapon in the Red zone and makes other plays with his length.

For this year the deal to move Kelly for DGB looks bad for the Eagles; however, they are not concerned about this year. They are building for the future. Big V and DGB may be sold, if unspectacular contributors over the medium to long term.


What I would do with DGB is make him shadow Wentz.

Pick him up at 5:00, arrive at NovaCare at 5:30, and study until he knows the playbook like the back of his hand, drop him off at 7:00 PM
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 18 2016, 08:55 AM) *
His livelihood does not depend on Ws this year. He is building for the future.

Maybe he wants to know if Big V is part of his O Line for the future or just a short-term backup.

It is not likely that a 5th rounder is going to be his long term starter at Rt OT; hopefully he can be the #1 backup at OT, the replacement for D Kelly.

Hopefully the Vikes make it to the SB so the Eagles have another 2nd rounder and the Eagles can have a shot at picking CB, OT, RB in rounds 1 and 2.

I think the fact that Wentz is so far along, you DO play for this year.

He is already there. It's his team that is holding him back, and many of his teammates will not be as good next year as this year.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 18 2016, 04:23 PM) *
I heard Brian Baldinger recently critique DGB. It was not flattering but not hopeless either.

He pointed out an "out" where DGB slipped on his break. That messed up the timing of the play. The throw was incomplete and looked high but was not. He said DGB did not do something with his hips to minimize the chances of problems during the break.

He said the QB and coach have reason to not trust DGB yet.

Of course the guy has a high ceiling from a physical standpoint. We'll see if he ever develops. Apparently the Titans did not think he would.

He still looks like a contributor. He certainly makes DBs miss tackles, the only Eagles WR to do that. He is also a weapon in the Red zone and makes other plays with his length.

For this year the deal to move Kelly for DGB looks bad for the Eagles; however, they are not concerned about this year. They are building for the future. Big V and DGB may be sold, if unspectacular contributors over the medium to long term.


First...DGB has made some terrific catches on 3rd and long....second....the next fade they throw to him that takes adb=vantage of his size will be the first...of the few fades they have thrown to him they have been low and allowed the shorter DBs to make a play on the ball....third....why do they not have him running deep routes? That does not take a polished WR to overpower a db at the line

The moves I see from Pederson do not inspire confidence....
HobbEs
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 18 2016, 07:50 PM) *
At worst...

DGB is a significant upgrade from Nelson pHuqhuin AHgoHlor!


I've taken to calling him Argh-ohlor. For obvious reasons...
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Oct 19 2016, 08:10 AM) *
I've taken to calling him Argh-ohlor. For obvious reasons...

Because he catches the ball like he has the depth perception of someone wearing an eye patch?
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 18 2016, 08:18 AM) *
I don't have as much information as Doug does. His livelihood depends on these types of decisions, so I suspect he's using common logic to make them.

You didn't have as much information as Bowles and the Jets GM either. wink.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 19 2016, 06:24 PM) *
You didn't have as much information as Bowles and the Jets GM either. wink.gif

I know the difference between $12M and $675k smile.gif
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