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Reality Fan
First play.....36 yard strike to Theilen (I know, who?) for a TD.

And remained undefeated by crushing the Texans without his top WR....too funny.
mcnabbulous
Are you a Vikings fan? No one gives a shit about Bradford. In fact, every win is a worse first round pick for us.

As I've said, at some point he is going to need to win a game. That's when we will see what he really has.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 10 2016, 10:32 AM) *
Are you a Vikings fan? No one gives a shit about Bradford. In fact, every win is a worse first round pick for us.

As I've said, at some point he is going to need to win a game. That's when we will see what he really has.


did they lose yesterday? Did the defense score 31 points? Against the Texans? I must have missed that....lol

And no..not particularly a Vikes fan....just like reminding you of the stupidity of thinking any QB could have succeeded in St. Louis with what was there.....he is just showing what a good QB he is with just an ok cast in Minny....and it doesn't hurt to bust your stones about your "game manager" silliness...lol
mcnabbulous
He's playing real well and they have a nice team/great defense. But you do know they are the 30th ranked offense, right? And 23rd in passing.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 10 2016, 12:49 PM) *
He's playing real well and they have a nice team/great defense. But you do know they are the 30th ranked offense, right? And 23rd in passing.


ummm....no I don't because that is really a fantasy in your head...you do know that, right?...I suggest you visit a better stat site...per Pro football reference right now they are ranked 9th in points, 17th in passing yards, 8th in y/a, no INTs......and the TD % would be a tick higher if not for Hill playing in week 1. AND with no running game which is really amazing.

I assume you went by Yds/game on ESPN....had you looked at the entire data set you would have seen it was their lack of a running game but you were a tad hasty to jump back in with a "gotcha"....funny stuff...

Try Pro Football Reference.com.....seriously. Big picture, one page, easy to sort.

Here are some stats for you:
GNB W 17-14 * 22 31 70.97 286 2 0 121.2 9.23 10.52
CAR W 22-10 * 18 28 64.29 171 1 0 93.0 6.11 6.82
NYG W 24-10 * 26 36 72.22 262 1 0 101.9 7.28 7.83
HOU W 31-13 22 30 73.33 271 2 0 123.1 9.03 10.37

lol...and with no running game......

D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 10 2016, 05:33 PM) *
did they lose yesterday? Did the defense score 31 points? Against the Texans? I must have missed that....lol

And no..not particularly a Vikes fan....just like reminding you of the stupidity of thinking any QB could have succeeded in St. Louis with what was there.....he is just showing what a good QB he is with just an ok cast in Minny....and it doesn't hurt to bust your stones about your "game manager" silliness...lol

I'd take his WR group over ours any day. Just sayin...
mcnabbulous
They are 23rd in passing yards per game.

Using total yards is disingenuous because many teams have had byes. They haven't.

I'm not discrediting what Sam has been doing. They have played well. But they simply aren't lighting it up offensively. And they don't have to. They've been dominating, so playing conservatively makes sense and I believe it is best for Sam's success.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 10 2016, 01:11 PM) *
I'd take his WR group over ours any day. Just sayin...


I would take Diggs....the rest are just guys...he is making Theilen look great.

But Diggs was out yesterday
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 10 2016, 01:16 PM) *
They are 23rd in passing yards per game.

Using total yards is disingenuous because many teams have had byes. They haven't.

I'm not discrediting what Sam has been doing. They have played well. But they simply aren't lighting it up offensively. And they don't have to. They've been dominating, so playing conservatively makes sense and I believe it is best for Sam's success.


ummm...they put 31 on the Texans....and they have put more points on the board every week......I would think it rather unrealistic to think that he would be traded into a new offense and start putting 27 up every week 2 weeks after opening their playbook with is pretty complicated by all reports of Norv's book. I guess all those OCs in St. Louis left him a quick study. But you keep saying "conservatively" and I have to ask...what stat are you going to switch to to defend that? last year it was the YPA and now you can't use that crutch because, wonder of wonders, he is in an offense that does not throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage every other play like Chip's did....so what is next?
D Rock
Who cares? He's a viking.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 10 2016, 12:33 PM) *
ummm...they put 31 on the Texans....and they have put more points on the board every week......I would think it rather unrealistic to think that he would be traded into a new offense and start putting 27 up every week 2 weeks after opening their playbook with is pretty complicated by all reports of Norv's book. I guess all those OCs in St. Louis left him a quick study. But you keep saying "conservatively" and I have to ask...what stat are you going to switch to to defend that? last year it was the YPA and now you can't use that crutch because, wonder of wonders, he is in an offense that does not throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage every other play like Chip's did....so what is next?

I've asked before, but I don't know why this all offends you so much. The Texans aren't very good. Especially without Watt. 7 of those points also came from a punt return.

I didn't watch the game, but I've seen enough of him to have my opinion on him. Like I said, he's playing well, but 23rd in passing yards per game is what it is. They aren't asking him to do too much and he's responding by being super efficient and productive. They don't ask him to take many shots, but he is capitalzing when presented the chance.

I admired the hell out of his deep accuracy coming out of Oklahoma. It's been on display in his limited attempts this.

I would not want him on a team that needed to win shootouts, but he seems very well suited for this Minny team. Frankly, I think he's better than Bridgewater.

Reality Fan
The only aspect I like about it is that he finally got a healthy chance at redemption. St. Louis was a dumpster fire and he got physically killed there. I was happy when we got him and as he got healthy he looked good. Hard to argue with Wentz but it is nice to see a guy like Bradford get a chance and take advantage of it. He seems like a good guy. If he keeps this up we may need to feel bad for Bridgewater.
mcnabbulous
If he keeps it up, I don't know how they could or would go back to Teddy. Basically, Brudgewater seems like a lesser version of Sam, from what I've seen.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 10 2016, 10:32 AM) *
Are you a Vikings fan? No one gives a shit about Bradford. In fact, every win is a worse first round pick for us.


He's slobbered over Bradford a fraction of how much you've slobbered over Geno Smith. Just saying.....

Don't we want the Vikings to reach the NFCCG this year? It's looking like a strong possibility this early.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 10 2016, 02:00 PM) *
If he keeps it up, I don't know how they could or would go back to Teddy. Basically, Brudgewater seems like a lesser version of Sam, from what I've seen.

Keep in mind that the offense has been adjusted in lieu of the AP's absence. With that consideration, Bridgewater and Bradford are putting up similar type numbers and the edge would go to Bradford. I'm not sure if that would justify his (potential) salary expectations, for what would likely be his final 'big payday'.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 10 2016, 02:37 PM) *
Keep in mind that the offense has been adjusted in lieu of the AP's absence. With that consideration, Bridgewater and Bradford are putting up similar type numbers and the edge would go to Bradford. I'm not sure if that would justify his (potential) salary expectations, for what would likely be his final 'big payday'.


What???

Bridgewater played with a healthy AP.....are you trying to say that not having AP is a benefit to Bradford? That would be an interesting and bizarre idea......having no running game puts an immense pressure on a QB regardless of who it is...

That being said, Bridgewater did not put up numbers anywhere near this year.....last year he threw for 200 yards per game...and 14 tds....Bradford is well ahead of that pace by a wide margin.
nephillymike
Sleeves is playing well.

Can't take anything away from him.

I'll go Jack Bogle on it and say that Sammy Sleeves will regress to the mean.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 10 2016, 07:44 PM) *
What???

Bridgewater played with a healthy AP.....are you trying to say that not having AP is a benefit to Bradford? That would be an interesting and bizarre idea......having no running game puts an immense pressure on a QB regardless of who it is...

I was suggesting that AP in the offense would impact the QB's total stats, by taking away pass attempts and subsequent completions. Those numbers should be inflated by his absence.

QUOTE
That being said, Bridgewater did not put up numbers anywhere near this year.....last year he threw for 200 yards per game...and 14 tds....Bradford is well ahead of that pace by a wide margin.

The absence of Bridgewater and AP has reduced the rushing yards/ per game by nearly half. (138 v 70) That will probably also factor into the TD totals; they totaled 18 last season and are on pace for 9 this year. Common sense says that those missing rushing yards and TDs will likely be made up in the passing game.


Reality Fan

QUOTE
I was suggesting that AP in the offense would impact the QB's total stats, by taking away pass attempts and subsequent completions. Those numbers should be inflated by his absence.

The problem with that hypothesis is that they still run the ball nearly as much as they did with AP if not more..
vs. the Texans they were 37 runs vs. 30 pass
vs. the Giants they were 33 runs vs. 36 passes
vs. the Panthers they were 28 runs vs. 36 passes
vs. the Pack they were 22 runs vs. 31 passes w/ AP

As you can see now that Bradford has a better feel for the offense it is pretty balanced.


QUOTE
The absence of Bridgewater and AP has reduced the rushing yards/ per game by nearly half. (138 v 70) That will probably also factor into the TD totals; they totaled 18 last season and are on pace for 9 this year. Common sense says that those missing rushing yards and TDs will likely be made up in the passing game.


Through 5 games last year AP and Bridgewater rushed for a total of 4 TDs....Zach Line had 2. What common sense should tell you and does tell defensive coordinators is that the Vikes have no running game so taking away their passing game is the focus which makes passing that much more difficult.

Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 10 2016, 10:04 PM) *
The problem with that hypothesis is that they still run the ball nearly as much as they did with AP if not more..
vs. the Texans they were 37 runs vs. 30 pass
vs. the Giants they were 33 runs vs. 36 passes
vs. the Panthers they were 28 runs vs. 36 passes
vs. the Pack they were 22 runs vs. 31 passes w/ AP

As you can see now that Bradford has a better feel for the offense it is pretty balanced.

Looking at the totals doesn't tell the story. For example, twelve of the rushing attempts (vs. 3 pass) in the Texans game came in the 4th Q, when they were eating clock (2 attempts where kneels).


QUOTE
Through 5 games last year AP and Bridgewater rushed for a total of 4 TDs....Zach Line had 2. What common sense should tell you and does tell defensive coordinators is that the Vikes have no running game so taking away their passing game is the focus which makes passing that much more difficult.

DC's don't try to stop AP, they try to limit him and not allow the QB to beat them. In the Bradford scenario, he doesn't scare DC's. Yes, he is having a good first half and is certainly doing his part, but he isn't a stark improvement over Bridgewater.
Reality Fan

QUOTE
Looking at the totals doesn't tell the story. For example, twelve of the rushing attempts (vs. 3 pass) in the Texans game came in the 4th Q, when they were eating clock (2 attempts where kneels).


hahaha...seriously?....what team does not run more in the 2nd half with the lead...you think they did not do it last year? That is pretty funny.


QUOTE
DC's don't try to stop AP, they try to limit him and not allow the QB to beat them. In the Bradford scenario, he doesn't scare DC's. Yes, he is having a good first half and is certainly doing his part, but he isn't a stark improvement over Bridgewater.


Sooooo...teams figure that they don't need to stop AP? That is a new one...who knew. So to recap...you said they Vikes would pass more but they really don't (last year their run pass ratio was 47/53 and this year they are 53/47...funny thing was...in game one and 2, with AP, they passed more than ran)and now Bridgewater was close to Bradford's performance but he wasn't....not even close. Would you like the numbers side by side? I can do that for you but it would really be brutal.

The numbers show that the Vikes are balanced. Bradford won't run the ball which means the defense can spare the spy making Bradford's performance even more impressive. You can make up any excuse you like but the facts are the facts....you can say AP did not scare teams or that they did not game plan for him (pretty ridiculous actually), you can say the Vikes inflated their running numbers (equally ridiculous) but the numbers are what they are and Bridgewater would likely be in real trouble this year without AP to lighten the load.

Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 11 2016, 12:01 AM) *
hahaha...seriously?....what team does not run more in the 2nd half with the lead...you think they did not do it last year? That is pretty funny.

If you just look at the totals they don't present a complete picture when discussing balanced play calling throughout the entire game.


QUOTE
Sooooo...teams figure that they don't need to stop AP? That is a new one...who knew.

Let me clarify, for the most part teams haven't been able to stop AP. Instead of attempting to stop him a DC will try to limit his effectiveness. In other words, try to stop him from having a monster game, which he is prone to do. That's not new.

QUOTE
So to recap...you said they Vikes would pass more but they really don't (last year their run pass ratio was 47/53 and this year they are 53/47...funny thing was...in game one and 2, with AP, they passed more than ran)and now Bridgewater was close to Bradford's performance but he wasn't....not even close. Would you like the numbers side by side? I can do that for you but it would really be brutal.

You can do it if you would like. Make sure you include the numbers that are affected by AP's presence. Here are some stats to factor into your analysis:

2016
- 24 ppg
- Bradford 8.9 y/a
- Bradford 4.8 TD%
- Rushing TD's
- 32.1% of drives ending in offensive score

2015
- 23 ppg
- Bridgewater 7.2 y/a
- Bridgewater 3.1 TD%
- Rushing TD's 18
- 38.4% of drives ending in offensive score

Their performance doesn't look as one sided as you make it out to be.

QUOTE
The numbers show that the Vikes are balanced. Bradford won't run the ball which means the defense can spare the spy making Bradford's performance even more impressive.

While Bradford has looked steady, I wouldn't say that I am impressed. I am impressed by their relentless defense.

QUOTE
you can say AP did not scare teams or that they did not game plan for him (pretty ridiculous actually),

I never said that.

QUOTE
you can say the Vikes inflated their running numbers (equally ridiculous) but the numbers are what they are and Bridgewater would likely be in real trouble this year without AP to lighten the load.

The inflated numbers are a result of a run control game. An obvious game plan when you have AP. I would suspect that Bradford's numbers would be even closer to Bridgewater if AP was playing. The Minny defense is playing lights out. Similar to Denver last season, they only require a game manager at QB to be successful. As long as Bradford doesn't completely mess up, they should be a formidable team this season.
Reality Fan
You left out the 240 odd yards per game passing for Bradford vs. Bridgewater's 200 or the completion %.

Look, I get it...you don't like Bradford but if you think that he looks "ok" or that not having a running game helps him you are irrational. The guy is having a great year so far and that is after getting traded into a new offense 6 weeks ago.

I have to hand it to you...you may be the first guy to argue that having a great RB hurts a QB's numbers....they have never known that in Pittsburgh, etc....



D Rock
Phits - you're wasting your time. Anything other than "Sammy Sleaves is a man-god" will bait "reality" fan into a 30 page argument that will devolve into "yeah, but you said" semantic nonsense.

Give the old grouch a wide berth. "Reason" is lost on him.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 11 2016, 10:57 AM) *
Phits - you're wasting your time. Anything other than "Sammy Sleaves is a man-god" will bait "reality" fan into a 30 page argument that will devolve into "yeah, but you said" semantic nonsense.

Give the old grouch a wide berth. "Reason" is lost on him.


hahaha....what happened...did they not serve canapes at you Hillary fund raiser last night?

You are funny...I am using reason....something you apparently know little about....are you saying that Bradford is not having a very good year so far? Is that your example of "reason"? Or saying that losing your best offensive threat is a good reason for a QBs success? That is "reason"? hahahahaha...Great stuff.

Pointing out idiocy, especially that which flies in the face of the opinion of every NFL pundit is not propping Bradford up as a man-god, it is simply fact. For the record, I was never a Bradford fan, the only issue I have ever had was some of the idocy propagated after we got him about his career arc. He was drafted by a terrible organization and what happened to him there was exactly what happens to many good QBs who go to a garbage team. He is merely playing out what I expected. He is a good QB and given a chance with a good team he is proving it.
D Rock
Tiger please....

I certainly don't want to turn this into a G&G post, but I would never cast a vote for a clinton. (I would never cast a vote for that retarded orangutan on your side either)
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 11 2016, 11:26 AM) *
Tiger please....

I certainly don't want to turn this into a G&G post, but I would never cast a vote for a clinton. (I would never cast a vote for that retarded orangutan on your side either)


and that is where you reveal your sanctimony...."your side"? The only side I have is to avoid electing people like Hillary.

But politics aside.....do you really think losing a guy like AP does anything to help a QB? Or any of the rest of the silliness purported? The Vikings don't run the ball a whole lot less and they actually moved more to complete balance the last 2 games (half of the only sample size available). To say that is because they ran more in the 4th quarter with the lead is to say they are an NFL team.
mcnabbulous
AD hasn't played well this year because that OL isn't designed for a power running game. McKinnon's agility has been more productive thus far.
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 10 2016, 03:17 PM) *
First play.....36 yard strike to Theilen (I know, who?) for a TD.

And remained undefeated by crushing the Texans without his top WR....too funny.

Bradford's performance doesn't surprise me at all - he showed last year as he progressed from injury and gained comfort to perform very well and look very comfortable executing the offense as a matter of routine. That's what good QBs do.

Fortunately, Wentz is doing that exact thing as well, so no grudge holds.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 11 2016, 03:54 PM) *
and that is where you reveal your sanctimony...."your side"? The only side I have is to avoid electing people like Hillary.

But politics aside.....do you really think losing a guy like AP does anything to help a QB? Or any of the rest of the silliness purported? The Vikings don't run the ball a whole lot less and they actually moved more to complete balance the last 2 games (half of the only sample size available). To say that is because they ran more in the 4th quarter with the lead is to say they are an NFL team.

The contention was not that "losing AP helps a quarterback." And you know it.

The contention is that the total and outright loss of a running game would likely lead to an uptick in passing stats because it's literally the ONLY way they can move the ball.

You can keep pretending that's not what was said, but you'd continue to be wrong. (For page after page after page of your usual semantic nonsense)
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 11 2016, 04:45 PM) *
The contention was not that "losing AP helps a quarterback." And you know it.

The contention is that the total and outright loss of a running game would likely lead to an uptick in passing stats because it's literally the ONLY way they can move the ball.

You can keep pretending that's not what was said, but you'd continue to be wrong. (For page after page after page of your usual semantic nonsense)


Really? Than why did they run the ball more than pass against the Texans (37-30)? Or run nearly as much as pass in the game before(33-36)? Why? Because they have a good head coach who knows that you don't abandon the run and that was my point backed up by the actual game statistics but you are too much of an obnoxious ass to actually look at the boxscores. You would rather try to wow people with your feeble attempt at wit. Try looking at the actual facts...funny how they work.

hmmm...70 runs and 66 passes in their last 2 games...I guess they did not totally and outright lose their running game.

If you want to join the debate get a clue about the facts.
D Rock
HAHAHA what a douche...

And what % of their offensive yardage did all that running garner?

Idiot.

Again, you know you're having your own discussion with your straw man bullshit.

laugh.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 11 2016, 06:07 PM) *
HAHAHA what a douche...

And what % of their offensive yardage did all that running garner?

Idiot.

Again, you know you're having your own discussion with your straw man bullshit.

laugh.gif


Keep digging the hole....I love watching you make an even bigger idiot of yourself...

I mean, you do realize that Bradford has thrown 10 more passes in his first 4 games than Bridgewwater di in his first 4....you knew that right?

And what % of the yardage means nothing you dumbass, it is how many attempts to get yardage each phase is afforded. But keep going...I love watching blowhards demonstrate just how dumb they are...

This is great stuff.....I have not laughed that hard in sometime. Maybe you are like Phits and think it is all kneeldowns...hahahaha

By the way....last year, through 4 games.....111 runs and 115 passes with Teddy......

Thank you....Thank you
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