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Reality Fan
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact
Dreagon
Bill Parcells used to say he only needed somebody good enough to drive the bus.

I'm not sure if that means there really aren't very many decent QBs out there, or if a lot of those buses are wrecks.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2016, 12:03 PM) *
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact


I don't think that anyone says 'all you need is a franchise QB.' The prevailing feeling, I believe, is that if you want to win it all and have a good team, if you have an elite QB it increases your odds to do it immensely.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Oct 2 2016, 01:28 PM) *
I don't think that anyone says 'all you need is a franchise QB.' The prevailing feeling, I believe, is that if you want to win it all and have a good team, if you have an elite QB it increases your odds to do it immensely.


I do not disagree but I think it is clear that a great QB is no guarantee that the rest will follow.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2016, 05:03 PM) *
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact

The fact that a QB can't do it alone, doesn't lessen the value of the position as it equates to a team's on field success.

Luck has a dog shit O-line, no running game, & a terrible defense.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2016, 04:03 PM) *
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact


Probably the same reason Marino never won a Super Bowl. To win it all you have to be surrounded by talent. With an elite QB, the surrounding talent does not have to be as good. If you have a game manager as a QB, the rest of the team has to be better.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2016, 12:03 PM) *
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact


Honestly, we all waste time arguing the obvious, all because one stubborn little man on this board can't bring himself to admit Belichick is an amazing coach, because he's far better than said little man's man-crush Andy Reid.

When you have an amazing QB, he elevates everyone else's play and gives you a better chance to win. Duh.

When you don't have a franchise QB, the rest of the team has to be better for you to compete against good teams. Duh.

You need talent and good coaching to win. Having talent at QB makes everything easier. Indy sucks. Duh.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Oct 2 2016, 01:53 PM) *
Probably the same reason Marino never won a Super Bowl. To win it all you have to be surrounded by talent. With an elite QB, the surrounding talent does not have to be as good. If you have a game manager as a QB, the rest of the team has to be better.


I think you make a great point....and it shows just how important a role the coach plays......even with a great QB he needs to manage the rest of the team and when he can do that AND be the GM as well that is truly incredible.
nephillymike
Well, maybe because the "great QB" ain't all that and makes really careless decisions with the ball.

Most over rated QB since Elway, pre T. Davis.

( I realize on the surface,this seems like a really stupid comment. Before replying, look at Elways stats prior to Davis on pro football reference and where he ranked among his peers)
Pila
A great QB can mask a lot of weaknesses and carry a team deep into good seasons. But a great coach can expose those weaknesses great QBs are able to carry during the season. See Marino.

Logically, a coach simply by the nature of his position has a wider influence on the whole of the team. There are exceptions where spectacular performances can make the difference between them, but over the long term the great coach has greater influence in the sustained success.

I don't think you can have the kind of sustained success the NE had had without a great coach and a great QB. You lose either of those, and there's no way they repeat that level of success. But for the sake of this argument, the chances of success are better with Belichick without Brady, than Brady without Belichick.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ Oct 2 2016, 02:28 PM) *
A great QB can mask a lot of weaknesses and carry a team deep into good seasons. But a great coach can expose those weaknesses great QBs are able to carry during the season. See Marino.

Logically, a coach simply by the nature of his position has a wider influence on the whole of the team. There are exceptions where spectacular performances can make the difference between them, but over the long term the great coach has greater influence in the sustained success.

I don't think you can have the kind of sustained success the NE had had without a great coach and a great QB. You lose either of those, and there's no way they repeat that level of success. But for the sake of this argument, the chances of success are better with Belichick without Brady, than Brady without Belichick.


Perfectly stated
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 02:27 PM) *
Well, maybe because the "great QB" ain't all that and makes really careless decisions with the ball.

Most over rated QB since Elway, pre T. Davis.

( I realize on the surface,this seems like a really stupid comment. Before replying, look at Elways stats prior to Davis on pro football reference and where he ranked among his peers)


Amen Mikey....as long as you don't mind this "old man" agreeing with you....and if I am old you must be ancient...lol
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 07:27 PM) *
Well, maybe because the "great QB" ain't all that and makes really careless decisions with the ball.

Most over rated QB since Elway, pre T. Davis.

( I realize on the surface,this seems like a really stupid comment. Before replying, look at Elways stats prior to Davis on pro football reference and where he ranked among his peers)

Not a stupid comment at all. Totally agree with Elway being over rated pre- Davis.
Phits
What makes him overrated? I would agree that he was less valuable in the years with TD, but prior to that there's no way he is overrated.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 02:27 PM) *
Well, maybe because the "great QB" ain't all that and makes really careless decisions with the ball.

Most over rated QB since Elway, pre T. Davis.

( I realize on the surface,this seems like a really stupid comment. Before replying, look at Elways stats prior to Davis on pro football reference and where he ranked among his peers)

nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Oct 2 2016, 02:12 PM) *
What makes him overrated? I would agree that he was less valuable in the years with TD, but prior to that there's no way he is overrated.

He was slightly above average.

Look at where he rated amongst his peers prior to the two SB wins.

He had a great comeback against CLE, and another win on a Byner fumble.

He was horrendous in Super Bowl losses.

Then he got TD.

The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 02:27 PM) *
Well, maybe because the "great QB" ain't all that and makes really careless decisions with the ball.


Which is precisely why the most overrated sonovabitch in the history of sports is Brett Favre. I say him over Elway because nobody puts Elway in the top 5 or even top 10 QB's ever. The amount of accolades Favre used to get during his playing days never ceased to annoy me. His best year by leaps and bounds was when he got to hand the ball to Adrian Peterson and watch Percy Harvin return kicks - a year which, true to form, ended with a stupid decision by him. It's debatable whether or not that interception against the Saints was worse than his floating pass to Brian Dawkins in that playoff game in 2003.
mcnabbulous
Because Chuck Pagano and Ryan Grigson might be the two worst people at their respective jobs in the NFL.

No one said you can get away with terrible coaching and personnel decisions.
nephillymike
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 2 2016, 02:59 PM) *
Which is precisely why the most overrated sonovabitch in the history of sports is Brett Favre. I say him over Elway because nobody puts Elway in the top 5 or even top 10 QB's ever. The amount of accolades Favre used to get during his playing days never ceased to annoy me. His best year by leaps and bounds was when he got to hand the ball to Adrian Peterson and watch Percy Harvin return kicks - a year which, true to form, ended with a stupid decision by him. It's debatable whether or not that interception against the Saints was worse than his floating pass to Brian Dawkins in that playoff game in 2003.

I don't know. I think most have Elway higher than Favre.

Not that Favre isn't over rated because he is.
mcnabbulous
I definitely think Elways is more highly regarded than Favre.

I'd also add that the importance of QB play has been emphasized in recent years which the rule changes which favor offense.
mcnabbulous
I also like that this thread was created the morning the Patriots were shut out. Nice.
The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 03:35 PM) *
I don't know. I think most have Elway higher than Favre.

Not that Favre isn't over rated because he is.


I think Elway was better than Favre, but no QB has ever been publicly slobbered over by the media more than Favre.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Oct 2 2016, 06:14 PM) *
I think Elway was better than Favre, but no QB has ever been publicly slobbered over by the media more than Favre.

Dak Prescott is trying to test that theory
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 2 2016, 06:22 PM) *
Dak Prescott is trying to test that theory

True.

He did play well today though.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 2 2016, 06:28 PM) *
True.

He did play well today though.

He is good. I'm impressed. They're protecting him big time. And if I were a defense, I'd make him beat me down the field. I can't believe how much underneath stuff the Niners allowed today.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 2 2016, 06:44 PM) *
He is good. I'm impressed. They're protecting him big time. And if I were a defense, I'd make him beat me down the field. I can't believe how much underneath stuff the Niners allowed today.

In win over Niners, Dallas QB Dak Prescott didn't attempt a pass of 20+ yards. 25 of 32 attempts were less than 10 yards, w/ 21 completions

Per @pff
Joegrane
The Eagles are in a very enviable spot if indeed CW is already an above average QB.

They have CW signed for chump change in contrast to New Orleans' $25mil or so Pro Bowl caliber QB.

The Eagles can now spend cap $ filling out the roster without the burden of the huge QB contract.

It will be interesting to see what they do at backup QB next year. Do they want that cap $ to attract a big time FA WR or CB?


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 2 2016, 12:03 PM) *
Why isn't Luck leading Indy to the SB every year?

The "once in a generation" QB seems to have little effect getting Indy into the promised land.

I guess that coaching and defense and STs do have an impact

Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 2 2016, 08:45 PM) *
The Eagles are in a very enviable spot if indeed CW is already an above average QB.

They have CW signed for chump change in contrast to New Orleans' $25mil or so Pro Bowl caliber QB.

The Eagles can now spend cap $ filling out the roster without the burden of the huge QB contract.

It will be interesting to see what they do at backup QB next year. Do they want that cap $ to attract a big time FA WR or CB?

The Eagles are cap restrained until they can do something with Peters' contract .. even after.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 3 2016, 05:56 AM) *
The Eagles are cap restrained until they can do something with Peters' contract .. even after.

As I've said before, if they need cap space they'll find a way to make it. Plus, the salary cap will increase in the off season.
mcnabbulous
Having a good/great QB on a rookie contract is one of the most advantageous salary cap situations a team can find themselves in.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 2 2016, 06:36 PM) *
I also like that this thread was created the morning the Patriots were shut out. Nice.


Shocking...funny the same team went 3-0 with back up QBs and got shut out with their injured 3rd string QB playing against a division rival.....and only gave up 16 points...what a surprise
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 3 2016, 11:52 AM) *
Shocking...funny the same team went 3-0 with back up QBs and got shut out with their injured 3rd string QB playing against a division rival.....and only gave up 16 points...what a surprise

What's your point? No one said Belichick wasn't a good coach. Nor did anyone suggest he wasn't a great defensive mind.

This whole thread was your strawman argument to prove some silly point, and it backfired when the Patriots got shut out by a mediocre Bills team. Literally not one person has suggested coaching, defense or special teams aren't important.

I simply said having great QB play is the x-factor that separates coaches. And having Tom Brady is what gives the perception that Belichick is a genius, when a number of coaches would have had similar success with him at the helm.

I do love that the argument for why Belichick is more important than his elite QB is "look how moderately successful he's been without his star QB!" Its almost like you guys may think QB play is important.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 3 2016, 01:04 PM) *
What's your point? No one said Belichick wasn't a good coach. Nor did anyone suggest he wasn't a great defensive mind.

This whole thread was your strawman argument to prove some silly point, and it backfired when the Patriots got shut out by a mediocre Bills team. Literally not one person has suggested coaching, defense or special teams aren't important.

I simply said having great QB play is the x-factor that separates coaches. And having Tom Brady is what gives the perception that Belichick is a genius, when a number of coaches would have had similar success with him at the helm.

I do love that the argument for why Belichick is more important than his elite QB is "look how moderately successful he's been without his star QB!" Its almost like you guys may think QB play is important.


hahaha...it backfired because they lost with their injured 3rd string QB playing a division rival...God I love seeing your football genius at work...

I am not the one who said that Luck was a "once in generation" QB...I merely created the thread because he looked terrible yesterday and last year when he played. You apparently took it as an affront to your genius which is funny. I keep forgetting how sensitive you are.
mcnabbulous
He was a once in a generation prospect. Literally no one will dispute that.
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