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Rick
That is what I have about Wentz so far. Was able to fly up for the game and loved what I saw. Sure, he was playing the Browns but they are still an NFL defense playing at NFL speeds...something Wentz hadn't really seen yet (preseason doesn't really count and he didn't play much there anyway). He seemed extremely composed--even under pressure. He was throwing catchable balls. He was throwing them and hitting guys in stride. He was checking the play at the line of scrimmage like as if he'd been in the league much longer than he has been.

He made a few mistakes--held onto the ball a bit too long a couple of times--but that was to be expected. I expect more mistakes as the season goes on, especially when they play better teams. But, he never seemed like he was in a panic, not even close.

It certainly looks like he can develop into a very good QB but, as I said, I'm cautiously-optimistic at this point. We'll see how he does when the offensive line has a bad game or he throws an interception or two. See how he bounces back.

I had originally predicted 5 wins (to my friends) but I have upgraded that to 7 wins. Could be more since the NFC East looks even worse than last year but we'll see how Wentz plays. If he continues to play well, they could win the NFC East but I still don't see anything special in the playoffs. They still have holes.

They are still struggling in coverage down the field. Still not making plays on balls when they do have someone covered. They need to get more pressure out of this defense.

The offensive line could do a bit better blocking on run plays. They looked surprisingly-good against the pass rush but we'll see what happens against teams with a better defensive line.

Anyway, the season just got a lot more interesting to watch at least.
Zero
We'll see. One game against the 2014 Sixers Browns, but still promising.
QUOTE
Just months after winning an improbable new lease on life in the NFL, Howie Roseman ruined it last week by mortgaging the future of the Eagles. The trade up to No. 2 in the draft – presumably for North Dakota State quarterback Carson Wentz – is a mistake that will haunt the organization for years.

Roseman’s idiotic rationale for giving up six draft picks in the first three rounds between now and 2018 is that, after a year of intense study spanning the globe, he concluded that the best teams have good quarterbacks. It’s amazing he needed all that time to figure out what a stumbling drunk leaving an Eagles game could have told him.

As a result of this epiphany, the reborn GM then looked at tape of Wentz, a kid who played 23 games of 1AA football, and fell instantly in love. It was just too perfect. The blueprint for 1999 was back in place, with the second pick in the draft and a talented young quarterback available to lead the Eagles into a new era.

The only problem is that Carson Wentz is not Donovan McNabb – not even close.
Here ..
Rick
QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 13 2016, 08:47 AM) *
We'll see. One game against the 2014 Sixers Browns, but still promising.
Here ..

This is why I'm not overly-excited yet. But, what I saw was a very poised kid playing against an NFL defense at NFL speeds. No, not an elite defense but it's still much faster (and bigger) than anything he faced in college. The game didn't seem to be too fast for him. That is what was most promising (to me).

Hopefully, he can learn from the mistakes he made and continue to grow. I fully expect some horrible games out of him. Might be next game, might not. But I won't give up on him if he has a bad game Monday night. I think he's got the tools to be very good. Question is whether he will utilize those tools to become very good (or better).
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 13 2016, 10:04 AM) *
This is why I'm not overly-excited yet. But, what I saw was a very poised kid playing against an NFL defense at NFL speeds. No, not an elite defense but it's still much faster (and bigger) than anything he faced in college. The game didn't seem to be too fast for him. That is what was most promising (to me).

Hopefully, he can learn from the mistakes he made and continue to grow. I fully expect some horrible games out of him. Might be next game, might not. But I won't give up on him if he has a bad game Monday night. I think he's got the tools to be very good. Question is whether he will utilize those tools to become very good (or better).

I think it's okay to accept all those caveats and still be overly excited. He made elite throws. He showed elite composure. He has elite physical skills. All in his first game.

We don't have to downplay things because it was the Browns. The dimes he dropped to Matthews and Agholor were beautiful, against any defense.

He's going to get better. He'll have bumps in the road, but this isn't an RG3 situation. This guy was making NFL quality presnap adjustments already. Every week, every year; he's going to improve.
Reality Fan
Wentz looked very good for the majority of the game but it is wise to relax and let him evolve. Cleveland not only has 17 rookies but it also has 34 new players. It is literally almost an expansion team. He has a great base to build on now and I would love to see him just get better and better...he might, he has an uncanny confidence without being cocky. My only concern is I have seen this movie before so I will wait until he has a few games against some defenses that won't rank in the bottom 3 of the league.

Keep your fingers crossed
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 04:30 PM) *
this isn't an RG3 situation.

I said it in RGIII's rookie year....

"Shanahan ruined him." Playing him in the playoffs on the already injured knee, only to see him injure it further, essentially screwed RGIII out of his greatest gift. He was a special athlete with a special arm. Sure, it would've taken him years to diagnose NFL defenses and read the entire field, but he could afford the time because his extreme physical gifts would carry him until he got there. Thanks to Shanny, those gifts were tossed out the window. I honestly feel bad for the guy.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 13 2016, 10:49 AM) *
I said it in RGIII's rookie year....

"Shanahan ruined him." Playing him in the playoffs on the already injured knee, only to see him injure it further, essentially screwed RGIII out of his greatest gift. He was a special athlete with a special arm. Sure, it would've taken him years to diagnose NFL defenses and read the entire field, but he could afford the time because his extreme physical gifts would carry him until he got there. Thanks to Shanny, those gifts were tossed out the window. I honestly feel bad for the guy.

Yeah, he did have special athleticism. I was pretty high on him coming out and certainly after year one, but now I'm not so sure he ever would have mastered the mental part. There just isn't an example of an Air Raid guy doing it yet, so until it happens, I'm going to assume it's not going to happen.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 11:56 AM) *
Yeah, he did have special athleticism. I was pretty high on him coming out and certainly after year one, but now I'm not so sure he ever would have mastered the mental part. There just isn't an example of an Air Raid guy doing it yet, so until it happens, I'm going to assume it's not going to happen.


Just curious why you think he never would have "mastered" the mental part? He had a QB rating of 102 for the entire first season....that tells you he had mastered it. Once a player loses a specific part of their arsenal the rest all suffers. If you mean that he would never get the interpersonal skills of dealing with teammates I agree, Snyder ruined him there but as far as the onfield part, he was pretty good on team that had little at WR. He had Garcon for 10 games and an old Santana Moss. Having Garcon was a plus but as I said, Garcon ended up missing 6 games. I think Griffin's biggest issue is not the mental side of the game, it is the mental side of not being a dick to people.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 13 2016, 11:13 AM) *
Just curious why you think he never would have "mastered" the mental part? He had a QB rating of 102 for the entire first season....that tells you he had mastered it.

I said why. Because he was an Air Raid QB that never had to read a defense. His 102 rating was the product of his unique athleticism, IMO. Once that was stripped, and he had to rely on the other aspects of the game, he was exposed.

QUOTE
Once a player loses a specific part of their arsenal the rest all suffers. If you mean that he would never get the interpersonal skills of dealing with teammates I agree, Snyder ruined him there but as far as the onfield part, he was pretty good on team that had little at WR. He had Garcon for 10 games and an old Santana Moss. Having Garcon was a plus but as I said, Garcon ended up missing 6 games. I think Griffin's biggest issue is not the mental side of the game, it is the mental side of not being a dick to people.

I really don't think that's a factor at all. He probably had an inflated ego after year one, but I don't think it was prohibitive. His problem is that he can't make NFL reads, because his college offense relied almost entirely on his receivers running go routes and his legs bailing him out when necessary.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 12:20 PM) *
His 102 rating was the product of his unique athleticism, IMO. Once that was stripped, and he had to rely on the other aspects of the game, he was exposed.

His unique athleticism wasn't a hindrance, it's part of the total package. If you strip a part of the package from any player they are likely to be exposed.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 13 2016, 11:27 AM) *
His unique athleticism wasn't a hindrance, it's part of the total package. If you strip a part of the package from any player they are likely to be exposed.

My point is that his athleticism wasn't part of the total package. It was the total package. He was a great athlete playing QB, but he never had to learn how to really play QB prior to reaching the NFL.

I'm not sure how much you know about that Baylor offense, but they don't have a playbook. They don't run NFL routes. They don't have complex reads. Literally, no guy has ever displayed extended success coming from that system to the NFL.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 12:20 PM) *
I said why. Because he was an Air Raid QB that never had to read a defense. His 102 rating was the product of his unique athleticism, IMO. Once that was stripped, and he had to rely on the other aspects of the game, he was exposed.


I really don't think that's a factor at all. He probably had an inflated ego after year one, but I don't think it was prohibitive. His problem is that he can't make NFL reads, because his college offense relied almost entirely on his receivers running go routes and his legs bailing him out when necessary.


Having family in DC that are ardent Skins fans I can tell you that it was his interactions with both teammates and coaches that were his problems in DC after the injury....he did not understand that the coaches are the bosses and he was an employee.

Saying his unique athleticism being stripped exposed him as anything is a little odd. What QB is good on one leg? That takes a while to come back from and have confidence in in any sport but for a QB to confidently throw the ball it is a real challenge. That is like saying that once Manning lost his arm strength he was revealed to be the fraud that he was. lol His athleticism as the sole reason for his rookie success is explainable for a game or 2 but not an entire season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 13 2016, 11:35 AM) *
Having family in DC that are ardent Skins fans I can tell you that it was his interactions with both teammates and coaches that were his problems in DC after the injury....he did not understand that the coaches are the bosses and he was an employee.

Saying his unique athleticism being stripped exposed him as anything is a little odd. What QB is good on one leg? That takes a while to come back from and have confidence in in any sport but for a QB to confidently throw the ball it is a real challenge. That is like saying that once Manning lost his arm strength he was revealed to be the fraud that he was. lol His athleticism as the sole reason for his rookie success is explainable for a game or 2 but not an entire season.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, there isn't an example of a QB coming from that college offense (or even a variation of it) and having long-term NFL success. I don't believe that's a coincidence.

RG3 may have had continued success, because of his unique athleticism. But i don't believe it would have been because of his mental mastery of the game. Because no one from that offense has displayed it yet.
Pila
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 05:40 PM) *
We'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, there isn't an example of a QB coming from that college offense (or even a variation of it) and having long-term NFL success. I don't believe that's a coincidence.

RG3 may have had continued success, because of his unique athleticism. But i don't believe it would have been because of his mental mastery of the game. Because no one from that offense has displayed it yet.


The QB position really is an oddity in realm of sports. No other sport has an adequate comparison. At least none that I know.

There simply aren't that many that have both the physical tangible and the overall mental intangible attributes to put a package together that excels beyond the good. It isn't just confidence, or cold blood, or leadership, mental toughness, whatever that is. But it's something that is probably a lot of that and something more.

RGIII was not just an athletic prodigy. But it seems clear that he also is missing some of this collection of intangibles because he is simply not the same guy he was before his injury.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 13 2016, 11:55 AM) *
The QB position really is an oddity in realm of sports. No other sport has an adequate comparison. At least none that I know.

There simply aren't that many that have both the physical tangible and the overall mental intangible attributes to put a package together that excels beyond the good. It isn't just confidence, or cold blood, or leadership, mental toughness, whatever that is. But it's something that is probably a lot of that and something more.

RGIII was not just an athletic prodigy. But it seems clear that he also is missing some of this collection of intangibles because he is simply not the same guy he was before his injury.

I agree with this for the most part. The great QB's have this ven diagram of both the physical and mental makeup required to excel.

To be very clear, my opinion of RG3 has nothing to do with his intelligence or ability to learn. It's more of a statement on the learned behaviors of his college offense and how difficult those are to shake. Until I see someone do it, I'm going to doubt all of their ability to do so. And I'll believe they all need 3-4 years before they really should be starting.
Dreagon
Yes, RGIII had an outstanding rookie year, but I really put that down to two things. His athleticism, and the read-option being something new for NFL defences to have to figure out.

I agree that he shouldn't have been out there on that knee. But even after he got his mobility back he was never able to replicate that original success because he had been figured out, and he was unable to evolve his game by learning to read defenses. On top of that, he STILL hasn't learned when to slide. Sadly, I think that knee gave him an excuse to avoid facing the problem that would eventually be his downfall anyway.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Sep 13 2016, 12:44 PM) *
Yes, RGIII had an outstanding rookie year, but I really put that down to two things. His athleticism, and the read-option being something new for NFL defences to have to figure out.

I agree that he shouldn't have been out there on that knee. But even after he got his mobility back he was never able to replicate that original success because he had been figured out, and he was unable to evolve his game by learning to read defenses. On top of that, he STILL hasn't learned when to slide. Sadly, I think that knee gave him an excuse to avoid facing the problem that would eventually be his downfall anyway.

Couldn't agree more with any of this.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 13 2016, 05:35 PM) *
Saying his unique athleticism being stripped exposed him as anything is a little odd. What QB is good on one leg?

Dan Marino was pretty good on the equivalent of two wooden stumps. How bout Joe Nammath?

Just sayin...
D Rock
QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 13 2016, 05:55 PM) *
The QB position really is an oddity in realm of sports. No other sport has an adequate comparison. At least none that I know.

There has been no shortage of "portly" pitchers. Bartolo Cologne as one recent example. He's never going to be accused of being "an athlete."
The Franchise
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 13 2016, 06:05 AM) *
I had originally predicted 5 wins (to my friends) but I have upgraded that to 7 wins. Could be more since the NFC East looks even worse than last year but we'll see how Wentz plays. If he continues to play well, they could win the NFC East but I still don't see anything special in the playoffs.


Against the Steelers we'll see where Wentz and the team as a whole truly stack up against a real contender, and I don't think we'll much like the answer. But he couldn't have started off his career any better.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 13 2016, 03:38 PM) *
Dan Marino was pretty good on the equivalent of two wooden stumps. How bout Joe Nammath?

Just sayin...


I miss your point....Marino was never a runner...he had a strong arm and the quickest release ever...he never lost either.

Joe Namath? Seriously? Have you ever looked at his career.....I suggest you look at it because he is a great example for my point.....he was known for beating Baltimore but after that his career was pedestrian by today's standards and that is being kind, it was a different era)...hell, he is 50% passer for his career. (7 of his 12 years he was below 50%)
samaroo
What is it going to take for some of you to be excited about this kid? I've heard that our team has crappy receivers, and that it may affect our QB. I've heard that repetitions, practice and familiarity with a system are integral to good QB play. Is that less true of our new rookie than for Bradford?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 13 2016, 09:20 PM) *
What is it going to take for some of you to be excited about this kid? I've heard that our team has crappy receivers, and that it may affect our QB. I've heard that repetitions, practice and familiarity with a system are integral to good QB play. Is that less true of our new rookie than for Bradford?


Actually, Matthews is a pretty damn good WR which is why he will set a record for most receptions by a WR in their first 3 years this year. And if you were paying attention I have said that the Eagles WR were the best Bradford ever played with which is why he had his best year here, even after returning from 2 torn ACLs. It is all context my friend.
samaroo
It seems to me, that context in this case is a moving target.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 13 2016, 10:15 PM) *
It seems to me, that context in this case is a moving target.


How so...are you saying that Matthews is not a very good WR? Please explain?
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 02:15 AM) *
I miss your point....Marino was never a runner...he had a strong arm and the quickest release ever...he never lost either.

Jesus you are dense. I was clearly responding to YOUR question, "what good is a QB on one leg" by pointing to an example of a QB with no legs a' tall.

samaroo
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 12:17 PM) *
How so...are you saying that Matthews is not a very good WR? Please explain?

I think he is, yes. But there's been no disagreement that WR play last year was lacking, especially with the drops. On the whole, it's the same group. Wentz has many of the same excuses that Sam had last year. And he looked good.

Yes, it was one game. And yes, it was the Browns.

But he missed most of the preseason, and he's a rookie, and he didn't really start practicing with the 1s till last week. It seems to me that you graded Sam on a curve and aren't for Wentz, that's all.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 14 2016, 02:17 AM) *
I think he is, yes. But there's been no disagreement that WR play last year was lacking, especially with the drops. On the whole, it's the same group. Wentz has many of the same excuses that Sam had last year. And he looked good.

Yes, it was one game. And yes, it was the Browns.

But he missed most of the preseason, and he's a rookie, and he didn't really start practicing with the 1s till last week. It seems to me that you graded Sam on a curve and aren't for Wentz, that's all.


I did? Matthews and Ertz were Bradford's favorite targets last year, that has not changed and Bradford had a 65% completion percentage so I am not sure what you are talking about. AT issue was the rest of the WR corp that was uninspiring. On Sunday the only difference was that Agholor actually got open.(something you would hope would happen in the 2nd year for a 1st round draft pick) By the way, I said that the WR corp from last year was the best that Bradford had ever played with. Beyond that, saying Bradford was coming off a 2 year layoff after 2 consecutive ACL tears is not an excuse, it is fact. Saying that he played for a dysfunctional franchise with no WR talent and a terrible O line is not an excuse, it is a statistical fact. Saying he played for a team that constantly changed its OC and HC is again, not an excuse, it is a historical fact. Facts provide context. Perhaps that is hard to understand but look at it this way....Aaron Rodgers had a down year last year from his normal years....why? Because his top WR was out for the year...what a shock...is that an excuse? No...it is a simple fact.

I am a little confused how you think I "graded" Wentz. Did I say he played poorly? I said I am not getting carried away by the game. He played well. Yes, it was the Browns who are terrible, but I never said he played poorly.

mcnabbulous
You said the one impressive thing he did was look composed. Which would suggest that he didn't do anything good beyond that.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 13 2016, 08:40 PM) *
There has been no shortage of "portly" pitchers. Bartolo Cologne as one recent example. He's never going to be accused of being "an athlete."


This reminded me of a quote.

From John Kruk, "I ain't no athlete. I'm a baseball player.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 14 2016, 02:20 AM) *
What is it going to take for some of you to be excited about this kid? I've heard that our team has crappy receivers, and that it may affect our QB. I've heard that repetitions, practice and familiarity with a system are integral to good QB play. Is that less true of our new rookie than for Bradford?



Excited? I think I am too old for excited. I am optimistic. I liked what I saw and I am looking forward to this season for only one reason. To see if Wentz evolves into the Eagles next franchise QB. So far so good but there are going to be a lot of bumps in the road.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 14 2016, 09:22 AM) *
You said the one impressive thing he did was look composed. Which would suggest that he didn't do anything good beyond that.


I what fucked up universe does one arrive at that conclusion? Did I say he looked bad? I said he played well, I was just not going to get too excited about a good performance versus the Browns. In your mind you needed to freak out because I was not jumping up and down. There is a big gulf between impressive and good and from good to bad. He made some great throws and he made some throws that resulted in spectacular catches.....Ertz's one handed catch was not a great throw, Matthews diving catch was not a great throw.....one of the highlights of Matthews crossing was funny because Wentz gets hit as he throws and it pushes the ball to the left which kept it from a pick or break up and resulted ina great catch by Matthews. Wentz did plenty of very good things but it was his lack of nerves that really stood out...he started the game looking almost serene, that is a hell of a thing for a rookie much less one that missed the preseason.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 10:38 AM) *
Ertz's one handed catch was not a great throw

That's exactly what it was. A catchable throw in a location only his receiver can make the catch.

QUOTE
Matthews diving catch was not a great throw.....one of the highlights of Matthews crossing was funny because Wentz gets hit as he throws and it pushes the ball to the left which kept it from a pick or break up and resulted ina great catch by Matthews.

Okay, you've officially jumped the shark. Bravo on the troll job.

QUOTE
Wentz did plenty of very good things but it was his lack of nerves that really stood out...he started the game looking almost serene, that is a hell of a thing for a rookie much less one that missed the preseason.

Lots of stuff stood out if you'd just open your heart and your mind.
mcnabbulous
Just to be clear. You live in a world where this is not a great throw and Sam Bradford is a poor, unfortunate soul.

https://twitter.com/fduffy3/status/775396589586251776
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 14 2016, 01:31 PM) *
Just to be clear. You live in a world where this is not a great throw and Sam Bradford is a poor, unfortunate soul.

https://twitter.com/fduffy3/status/775396589586251776


Caught me on a bad night so here goes.....I apologize on the confusion for the "crossing" route....the throw I was referencing was the one where Wentz threw to Matthews crossing the field and heading toward the sidelines and Wentz threw it short and Matthews dove and picked it up off the carpet, a spectacular catch which the announcers also commented on. The crossing route where Matthews dove and made a terrific catch was a throw clearly influenced by the guy grabbing Wentz and pulled it right just a bit.....gutsy throw and awesome catch in traffic...those are just the facts with visual evidence. Watch the replay all the way through, they broke it down on Philly Sports Talk as well.

Now, I would love for you to tell me which one of the points I have made and substantiated about ST. Louis is incorrect, rather than cry like a little bitch that I threaten you, something I am still laughing about, tell me which was wrong....did his O line not rank in the bottom 4 each of his first 3 years? Did he not throw 14 TDs vs 4 picks when his O line was not compelte garbeg in year 4 before shredding his knee? Did he not have multiple HC and OCs in St. Louis? I get a that you are not bright enough to understand the impact of that but tell me which one is wrong or better yet tell me one QB who ever overcame that regardless of whether they were fucking Air Raid QBs? Instead of you typical bullshit provide some facts...I did but you would rather talk about how terrific you failed college picks should be if only they had the right coach or system (talk about fucking hypocrisy).

and did you really use both troll and jump the shark? what are you, 12? unreal...
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 08:12 PM) *
Caught me on a bad night so here goes.....I apologize on the confusion for the "crossing" route....the throw I was referencing was the one where Wentz threw to Matthews crossing the field and heading toward the sidelines and Wentz threw it short and Matthews dove and picked it up off the carpet, a spectacular catch which the announcers also commented on. The crossing route where Matthews dove and made a terrific catch was a throw clearly influenced by the guy grabbing Wentz and pulled it right just a bit.....gutsy throw and awesome catch in traffic...those are just the facts with visual evidence. Watch the replay all the way through, they broke it down on Philly Sports Talk as well.

I don't know what you're talking about, but I really also don't care.
QUOTE
Now, I would love for you to tell me which one of the points I have made and substantiated about ST. Louis is incorrect, rather than cry like a little bitch that I threaten you, something I am still laughing about

More of mocking you as being an internet tough guy. Just to be clear.
QUOTE
tell me which was wrong....did his O line not rank in the bottom 4 each of his first 3 years?

I don't know by which measure you are ranking his OL.

QUOTE
Did he not throw 14 TDs vs 4 picks when his O line was not compelte garbeg in year 4 before shredding his knee?

He did. But 9 of those came against teams (Atl, Jax, Hou) that finished a combined 10-38.

He threw 5 TDs vs. 3 INTs in the 4 games against the respectable teams he faced. Not bad. Very okay. Bradforian, if you will.

QUOTE
Did he not have multiple HC and OCs in St. Louis?

Yes, because he wasn't good enough to elevate his team and save his coaches job.
QUOTE
I get a that you are not bright enough to understand the impact of that but tell me which one is wrong or better yet tell me one QB who ever overcame that regardless of whether they were fucking Air Raid QBs?

Once again, pretty ballsy to question my intelligence when you can't figure out basic markup on a message board you've been using for 12 years. Interesting how you always fall back on intelligence. It's almost like you're projecting.

No air raid QB has ever overcome any amount of obstacles. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
QUOTE
Instead of you typical bullshit provide some facts...I did but you would rather talk about how terrific you failed college picks should be if only they had the right coach or system (talk about fucking hypocrisy).

I would actually ask you how you think you're not being the hypocrite? The big difference, as far as I see it, is that Geno is three years younger than Bradford. They've accomplished the same on the field.

The difference between us is that I made those same excuses for both guys through this past season. Now I'm done making them for Bradford. You've never cut Smith any slack despite nearly all the same professional challenges.

I will admit that having continued to watch these Air Raid guys fail as pros, I'm less and less convinced that Geno could overcome those challenges. With that said, given the circumstances surrounding that draft (e.g. Worst draft ever, new coach who seemed likely to want a mobile QB) I stand by my opinion that it was a worthwhile risk.

QUOTE
and did you really use both troll and jump the shark? what are you, 12? unreal...

12 year olds love Happy Days.
Joegrane
RF, maybe you were referring to this miraculous reception by Matthews.
https://twitter.com/fduffy3/status/775396589586251776

If Wentz continues to make decisions and throws like that he is either going to end up on the bench or in the Hall of Fame.

That looks like a throw his mentor, Brett Farve would have made. Of course we all know abut Farve's tendencies to throw INTs The Eagles have been beneficiaries of some of his gifts.

I would be less critical of his decision if the recipient was DGB whose length and speed is greater than Matthew's.

You might have been referring to this really nice read and throw by Wentz.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/v...b8-02af6975977f
or
Fran D's "Shot 4" here
http://gcobb.com/2016/09/13/carson-wentz-d...-on-an-audible/

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 08:12 PM) *
....the throw I was referencing was the one where Wentz threw to Matthews crossing the field and heading toward the sidelines and Wentz threw it short and Matthews dove and picked it up off the carpet, a spectacular catch which the announcers also commented on. The crossing route where Matthews dove and made a terrific catch was a throw clearly influenced by the guy grabbing Wentz and pulled it right just a bit.....gutsy throw and awesome catch in traffic...those are just the facts with visual evidence. Watch the replay all the way through, they broke it down on Philly Sports Talk as well.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 14 2016, 10:14 PM) *
I don't know what you're talking about, but I really also don't care.
...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 14 2016, 10:14 PM) *
I don't know what you're talking about, but I really also don't care.

More of mocking you as being an internet tough guy. Just to be clear.

I don't know by which measure you are ranking his OL.


He did. But 9 of those came against teams (Atl, Jax, Hou) that finished a combined 10-38.

He threw 5 TDs vs. 3 INTs in the 4 games against the respectable teams he faced. Not bad. Very okay. Bradforian, if you will.


Yes, because he wasn't good enough to elevate his team and save his coaches job.

Once again, pretty ballsy to question my intelligence when you can't figure out basic markup on a message board you've been using for 12 years. Interesting how you always fall back on intelligence. It's almost like you're projecting.

No air raid QB has ever overcome any amount of obstacles. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

I would actually ask you how you think you're not being the hypocrite? The big difference, as far as I see it, is that Geno is three years younger than Bradford. They've accomplished the same on the field.

The difference between us is that I made those same excuses for both guys through this past season. Now I'm done making them for Bradford. You've never cut Smith any slack despite nearly all the same professional challenges.

I will admit that having continued to watch these Air Raid guys fail as pros, I'm less and less convinced that Geno could overcome those challenges. With that said, given the circumstances surrounding that draft (e.g. Worst draft ever, new coach who seemed likely to want a mobile QB) I stand by my opinion that it was a worthwhile risk.


12 year olds love Happy Days.


I am not the little bithch who said "you threatened me"....I would not be that ridiculously scared particularly when no such thing was ever said. You are a timid little bitter child who thinks he a football genius...

A great example is using the same argument I used for not getting too excited about Wentz yet because he played well against the Browns, a team projected to be in the bottom 2 of the league to "expose" Bradford because he did well against lesser talent...that is how fucking stupid you are...you can't help but be continually hypocritical.

And as far as using Quotes? It is a waste of my time...I have used it before and I don't feel the need....somehow you think your are a wizard because you can point an click...bravo...go tell the wife you mastered something...finally.

And stop pontificating and give me facts...an example of a successful QB who played with garbage on the O line and WR spots? Don't blather, put up some facts....I know you can't and the funny thing is, so do you....it is not about your fucking Air Raid horseshit...it is about no QB, not Brady, not Manning, no one can....I presented the list of Pro Bowl WR both Favre had and Manning had and you respond with more bullshit....that is all you ever have...just bullshit on top of bullshit....more fucked up Nabbyisms.....1000 yards means nothing for RBs or WRs....Hack is the most Pro Ready, Geno is great....the list goes on.....except all the facts make you look like the idiot that you are...a scared little twit...

God, you must be the fucking laughing stock of your friends...what a treat
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 14 2016, 11:23 PM) *
RF, maybe you were referring to this miraculous reception by Matthews.
https://twitter.com/fduffy3/status/775396589586251776

If Wentz continues to make decisions and throws like that he is either going to end up on the bench or in the Hall of Fame.

That looks like a throw his mentor, Brett Farve would have made. Of course we all know abut Farve's tendencies to throw INTs The Eagles have been beneficiaries of some of his gifts.

I would be less critical of his decision if the recipient was DGB whose length and speed is greater than Matthew's.

You might have been referring to this really nice read and throw by Wentz.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/v...b8-02af6975977f
or
Fran D's "Shot 4" here
http://gcobb.com/2016/09/13/carson-wentz-d...-on-an-audible/


The first one is the one I said he is getting grabbed as he throws but the one I am referring to is here at the 3:45 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBRIBLSxVc

I am sure little bo peep will say it was the perfect throw.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2016, 11:06 PM) *
I am not the little bithch who said "you threatened me"....I would not be that ridiculously scared particularly when no such thing was ever said. You are a timid little bitter child who thinks he a football genius...

Wtf are you talking about? To be clear. Not scared. Think you are a pathetic, old internet tough guy.

QUOTE
A great example is using the same argument I used for not getting too excited about Wentz yet because he played well against the Browns, a team projected to be in the bottom 2 of the league to "expose" Bradford because he did well against lesser talent...that is how fucking stupid you are...you can't help but be continually hypocritical.

Well one guy was in his first game, while the other was in his fourth year. But sure...same thing.

QUOTE
And as far as using Quotes? It is a waste of my time...I have used it before and I don't feel the need....somehow you think your are a wizard because you can point an click...bravo...go tell the wife you mastered something...finally.

So you just choose to post incoherently. Here I thought it was pure stupidity, when it's a choice to write like an idiot. I'm not sure what is worse.

QUOTE
And stop pontificating and give me facts...an example of a successful QB who played with garbage on the O line and WR spots?

You can't really put up facts around something arbitrary. I requested you give me your source on your OL rankings. Football Outsiders had the Rams OL ranked 14th in 2012. Not great, but far from garbage.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2012

QUOTE
Don't blather, put up some facts....I know you can't and the funny thing is, so do you....it is not about your fucking Air Raid horseshit

I swear you don't know how facts work.

Why is the Air Raid thing horseshit? Give me a fact then. Name one QB that has played in the system (or a variation) who has gone on to NFL success.

Here is a reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense

Just one. Name one.

QUOTE
...it is about no QB, not Brady, not Manning, no one can....I presented the list of Pro Bowl WR both Favre had and Manning had and you respond with more bullshit....that is all you ever have...just bullshit on top of bullshit

You realize this isn't how it works. You can't say that because Brady and Manning have been successful with talent around them, they wouldn't have been successful without it. That's not proof or evidence. That's called you being a stupid fucking dipshit. And the fact that you can't see the difference is why you're so stupid.

I consistently hear from people on this board how McNabb was excellent, despite not having receivers. So there you have it. Donovan did it. There is the "fact."

QUOTE
....more fucked up Nabbyisms.....1000 yards means nothing for RBs or WRs

Why does 1000 yards "mean something" and what exactly does it mean. Please do tell.

QUOTE
....Hack is the most Pro Ready

Mentally, I stand by this, because he played in a pro system for a year. Who would you have nominated? Didn't you tell me how Goff was going to start because he was drafted #1 overall?

QUOTE
, Geno is great

Find one post where I said this or something similar you lying sack of shit. Find one fucking post. You won't. Because you are the biggest full of shit asshat I've ever interacted with.

Seriously, find one post or acknowledge that you're full of shit. I have a feeling you will conveniently ignore this.

QUOTE
....the list goes on.....except all the facts make you look like the idiot that you are...a scared little twit...

God, you must be the fucking laughing stock of your friends...what a treat

A fat, old Internet tough guy. Must be a fine existence you live.
Reality Fan
I can't even answer you anymore...I am afraid I may scare you more than I already have....

JThe funny thing is it has nothing to do with me being an internet tough guy and everything to do with you being an internet pussy.....

I am done...you are not worth another word.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 15 2016, 12:03 AM) *
I can't even answer you anymore...I am afraid I may scare you more than I already have....

JThe funny thing is it has nothing to do with me being an internet tough guy and everything to do with you being an internet pussy.....

I am done...you are not worth another word.

So I guess this means you won't be finding the example of me declaring Geno Smith great? How shocking.

Jesus Christ you're full of shit. And stupid to boot.
D Rock
laugh.gif
Pila
Clearly you two need to settle this personal gripe once and for all like gentlemen used to do back in my day. This callS for a DANCE OFF:

Pila
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 14 2016, 07:17 AM) *
I think he is, yes. But there's been no disagreement that WR play last year was lacking, especially with the drops. On the whole, it's the same group. Wentz has many of the same excuses that Sam had last year. And he looked good.

Yes, it was one game. And yes, it was the Browns.

But he missed most of the preseason, and he's a rookie, and he didn't really start practicing with the 1s till last week. It seems to me that you graded Sam on a curve and aren't for Wentz, that's all.

One thing J Mathews does well is snag low throws off the turf. He did this well last year also. It's a difficult thing to do.

His drops consist mostly when it's at mid level and he leaves the ground for no reason. He did that a couple of times Sunday too. Coach Lewis recognized it adn addressed it in his early interviews. But Matthews still does it.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 15 2016, 12:01 PM) *
Clearly you two need to settle this personal gripe once and for all like gentlemen used to do back in my day. This callS for a DANCE OFF:



lol...well done...I am worried I might scare the hell out of him before I even said a word and he might call the police and say I looked at him in a threatening way if we were in the same room....

It is my first encounter with a football expert/candy ass......Truly a piece of something but such is life. I won't lose sleep over not reading anymore of Jane Madden's genius football observations.....the next one is probably "first downs aren't important" or some such...lol

And damn it, I can dance......lolol
mcnabbulous
A 60+ internet tough guy who just called me a 12 year old used "lol" twice in the same post. This big blue marble we live on is a mysterious place.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 15 2016, 09:37 PM) *
A 60+ internet tough guy who just called me a 12 year old used "lol" twice in the same post. This big blue marble we live on is a mysterious place.

laugh.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 15 2016, 05:23 PM) *
laugh.gif


I would suggest Jane Madden actually meet me to seeif I am a 60 year old internet tough guy but he might perceive that as a threat.....I would hate to have him wet himself....

Now that would be a lot of laughter....
The Franchise
I'd pay to see you and mccrappulous have a friendly boxing match. Hell, me and DCrock can be the opening bout. Afterwards we can go out - hopefully a place where you can order steak as well as tofu wings.....
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