Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: What to think of the visor guy
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
Pages: 1, 2
Zero
I hate visors. Every time I see a guy wearing a visor I see an image of a pony tail bouncing around as a young lady jogs down the street. Soccer moms and visors are synonymous. Visors are girly to me, but Pederson seemed to do a pretty decent job yesterday even with his girly hat. In fact, even though I was more than suspect of his hiring, I have to admit he seems to have handled most everything in the job pretty well so far.

Just like with our new red-headed ball chucker, it's early. There's plenty of time to either fail and/or grow. But yesterday I didn't notice any time issues. Pedy seemed to call the game pretty well and the team came out ready to play.
HobbEs
Gruden wore a visor. Just sayin'.
Zero
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Sep 12 2016, 09:03 AM) *
Gruden wore a visor. Just sayin'.
Haha. True that. Still didn't like it. cool.gif
JeeQ
He's the right coach for a rebuilding team. Simple, no nonsense, and most importantly he knows what people expect in Philadelphia
mcnabbulous
I was somewhat surprised by how little he had Wentz move around, but it should come as no surprise that I'm stoked to have an Andy disciple calling plays.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 03:38 PM) *
I was somewhat surprised by how little he had Wentz move around, but it should come as no surprise that I'm stoked to have an Andy disciple calling plays.


I will remain happy if he never challenges Reid's record ridiculous pass to run ratio.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 10:58 AM) *
I will remain happy if he never challenges Reid's record ridiculous pass to run ratio.

Ugh. What a silly misconception this still is.

Andy got Alex Smith and all of a sudden he becomes one of the most balanced playcallers in football. In fact, the 6th most run heavy team in football last year.

But you guys still think it some systematic flaw.

It was the quarterback.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 04:03 PM) *
Ugh. What a silly misconception this still is.

Andy got Alex Smith and all of a sudden he becomes one of the most balanced playcallers in football. In fact, the 6th most run heavy team in football last year.

But you guys still think it some systematic flaw.

It was the quarterback.


Not a systemic flaw but a Reid flaw. I am glad he finally saw the light. That only took 20 years. Who says Reid cannot learn. I wonder how his clock management is these days?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 11:05 AM) *
Not a systemic flaw but a Reid flaw. I am glad he finally saw the light. That only took 20 years. Who says Reid cannot learn. I wonder how his clock management is these days?

Old dogs don't learn new tricks. It wasn't his flaw.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 04:12 PM) *
Old dogs don't learn new tricks.


That explains why you still do not see the flaws Reid had here in Philly. laugh.gif

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 11:33 AM) *
That explains why you still do not see the flaws Reid had here in Philly. laugh.gif

Maybe so, but the first time a team tried to go run heavy with Donovan; he went 1-5, was benched for Christian Ponder and was out of the league within a year. This despite having a generational talent at RB.

He wasn't consistent enough to play that way. Andy knew it and adjusted accordingly.

The Franchise
He can wear a pink bow tie and matching garter every day as long as he manages the clock properly and calls an unpredictable attack.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 04:36 PM) *
Maybe so, but the first time a team tried to go run heavy with Donovan; he went 1-5, was benched for Christian Ponder and was out of the league within a year. This despite having a generational talent at RB.

He wasn't consistent enough to play that way. Andy knew it and adjusted accordingly.


Am I following this right? You are using McNabb's time in Minnesota as an example of why Reid was wise to use a pass heavy attack while he and McNabb were in Phi?

Are you saying that McNabb could not hand the ball off consistently so Reid decided not to make him play that way? Perhaps you are saying that since McNabb was inconsistent that Reid passed the ball a lot in the belief that sooner or later McNabb would hit pay dirt?

I am really trying to follow your logic here. I don't think citing McNabb's time in Min is helping your case.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 11:55 AM) *
Am I following this right? You are using McNabb's time in Minnesota as an example of why Reid was wise to use a pass heavy attack while he and McNabb were in Phi?

Yes

QUOTE
Are you saying that McNabb could not hand the ball off consistently so Reid decided not to make him play that way?

No
QUOTE
Perhaps you are saying that since McNabb was inconsistent that Reid passed the ball a lot in the belief that sooner or later McNabb would hit pay dirt?

Yes. There is slightly more to it, but that is the short answer. Happy to elaborate if you're so inclined.

QUOTE
I am really trying to follow your logic here. I don't think citing McNabb's time in Min is helping your case.

I was consistently told that all McNabb needed was a run heavy attack to thrive. I was told that once Shanahan acquired him, we would all see. Then Shanahan proceeded to throw the ball more than he ever had in his career. Why do you think that was?

Surely getting to Minnesota with one of the greatest RBs of all time would bring out at least some quality in McNabb right? I mean, there are a number of QB's that have had success at that point in their respective careers.

Nope. 1-5. Benched. Cut. Retired.
CT_Eagle
Thanks for the clarification.

You cannot use McNabb's time in Min to gauge anything. He was well past his prime and nowhere near the weapon he was while in Philly. There is a reason why McNabb was out of football the following year and it wasn't because Minnesota, with Adrian Peterson, went to a run heavy attack. They still passed the ball more than they ran it though it was not pass heavy. I would characterize it as balanced. The Vikings failed that season because opposing defenses did not respect McNabb's or Ponder's passing and focused on stopping their best player, Peterson. Once Peterson was stopped , and he was often that season, neither McNabb nor Ponder had the physical tools to do anything.

I think you are mischaracterizing or not accurately remembering what you were being told regarding going to a run heavy attack with McNabb.

My point then, and what others with the same point of view were saying when McNabb was in his prime, was that the Eagles, not McNabb, would benefit from having a more balanced approach, not a run heavy approach.

That was not Reid's philosophy while he was in Phi. He wrongly thought that staying with a pass heavy attack, with McNabb at the helm, would win him a Lombardy. He was wrong.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 12:40 PM) *
Thanks for the clarification.

You cannot use McNabb's time in Min to gauge anything.

Sure I can. I just did.

QUOTE
He was well past his prime and nowhere near the weapon he was while in Philly.

He was 35. The great QBs of our generation have had a lot of success at that point in their careers. Which should tell you everything you need to know about McNabb the QB.

QUOTE
There is a reason why McNabb was out of football the following year and it wasn't because Minnesota, with Adrian Peterson, went to a run heavy attack.

Why then?

QUOTE
They still passed the ball more than they ran it though it was not pass heavy. I would characterize it as balanced.

Everyone passes more than they run these days.

QUOTE
The Vikings failed that season because opposing defenses did not respect McNabb's or Ponder's passing

Because McNabb is an inconsistent passer. Now you're getting it.

QUOTE
and focused on stopping their best player, Peterson. Once Peterson was stopped , and he was often that season, neither McNabb nor Ponder had the physical tools to do anything.

Because Donovan was an inconsistent passer.

QUOTE
I think you are mischaracterizing or not accurately remembering what you were being told regarding going to a run heavy attack with McNabb.

My point then, and what others with the same point of view were saying when McNabb was in his prime, was that the Eagles, not McNabb, would benefit from having a more balanced approach, not a run heavy approach.

Right. And my point then and now is that this statement is inaccurate. Like a McNabb 10 yard out.

QUOTE
That was not Reid's philosophy while he was in Phi. He wrongly thought that staying with a pass heavy attack, with McNabb at the helm, would win him a Lombardy. He was wrong.

He correctly thought that this philosophy would lead to the most success. And hoped it could result in a Lombardi. Considering we had unprecedented success and were the most successful NFC team of the decade, he was correct about the first part. Lots of factors contributed to the second part not coming to fruition.

Donovan being inconsistent (and having a few untimely injuries) are just some of those factors.
Reality Fan
I think the easiest explanation with McNabb is the obvious one....give even a great QB mediocre or less WRs and you get what you got with Reid. When he had good WRs he did well....consider his lone season with TO. Despite not playing the 4th quarter in most games he had a career year in TDs and completion %....funny how WRs help with that.

By the time McNabb left Philly he was a shell of his former self due to multiple significant injuries. He muscled up trying to fend off the damage he was taking and that did not help his mobility.....he was done before he left here.
Phits
Reid's problem was that he tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He incorrectly implemented a pass heavy offense with an "inaccurate" QB. At any point during McNabb's 'prime' AR could have attempted to trade for a guy that would be able to do what he wanted. McNabb had high value for a number of years and would have garnered a substantial return. Instead AR stubbornly tried to stick with a game plan that couldn't succeed with his personnel (like having a pass heavy offense with an 'inaccurate' QB and no reliable receivers).

QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 01:40 PM) *
Thanks for the clarification.

You cannot use McNabb's time in Min to gauge anything. He was well past his prime and nowhere near the weapon he was while in Philly. There is a reason why McNabb was out of football the following year and it wasn't because Minnesota, with Adrian Peterson, went to a run heavy attack. They still passed the ball more than they ran it though it was not pass heavy. I would characterize it as balanced. The Vikings failed that season because opposing defenses did not respect McNabb's or Ponder's passing and focused on stopping their best player, Peterson. Once Peterson was stopped , and he was often that season, neither McNabb nor Ponder had the physical tools to do anything.

I think you are mischaracterizing or not accurately remembering what you were being told regarding going to a run heavy attack with McNabb.

My point then, and what others with the same point of view were saying when McNabb was in his prime, was that the Eagles, not McNabb, would benefit from having a more balanced approach, not a run heavy approach.

That was not Reid's philosophy while he was in Phi. He wrongly thought that staying with a pass heavy attack, with McNabb at the helm, would win him a Lombardy. He was wrong.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 03:20 PM) *
Reid's problem was that he tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He incorrectly implemented a pass heavy offense with an "inaccurate" QB. At any point during McNabb's 'prime' AR could have attempted to trade for a guy that would be able to do what he wanted. McNabb had high value for a number of years and would have garnered a substantial return. Instead AR stubbornly tried to stick with a game plan that couldn't succeed with his personnel (like having a pass heavy offense with an 'inaccurate' QB and no reliable receivers).


I agree that he made a mistake with his offense.....but the mistake was running a pass heavy offense with no serviceable targets until it was too late.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 12 2016, 02:13 PM) *
I think the easiest explanation with McNabb is the obvious one....give even a great QB mediocre or less WRs and you get what you got with Reid. When he had good WRs he did well....consider his lone season with TO. Despite not playing the 4th quarter in most games he had a career year in TDs and completion %....funny how WRs help with that.

Statistically he was a lesser QB, but his production was still upper echelon, despite having lesser WRs. He still performed at a very high level.

Certainly having TO (a top-5 WR of all time) took it to the next level, but Donovan still thrived prior to his arrival while playing under Reid. He was a different player then though.

And the league also made significant changes to the rules that season which helped QBs statistically league wide.

QUOTE
By the time McNabb left Philly he was a shell of his former self due to multiple significant injuries. He muscled up trying to fend off the damage he was taking and that did not help his mobility.....he was done before he left here.

His final season in Philly produced the third highest passer rating of his career.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 02:20 PM) *
Reid's problem was that he tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He incorrectly implemented a pass heavy offense with an "inaccurate" QB. At any point during McNabb's 'prime' AR could have attempted to trade for a guy that would be able to do what he wanted. McNabb had high value for a number of years and would have garnered a substantial return. Instead AR stubbornly tried to stick with a game plan that couldn't succeed with his personnel (like having a pass heavy offense with an 'inaccurate' QB and no reliable receivers).

He was pass heavy because he was inaccurate. How do you not see this? It didn't change the reality that he was still a top-10 QB. He was just an inconsistent passer.

I'm sure Andy would have loved to have upgraded the situation (and he tried to do so with Kolb), but acquiring QBs is hard as fuck and Kolb was another air raid bust.

Andy clearly doesn't want to be as pass heavy as he was with Donovan. Which is exactly what we're seeing in KC.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 12:18 PM) *
I was consistently told that all McNabb needed was a run heavy attack to thrive.


He needed some sense of a balanced, unpredictable gameplan to thrive. And to my knowledge, we almost never lost when that happened. He even managed to overcome most of Andy's shitty gameday coaching when he had to pass 50+ times to Freddie Mitchell or Kevin Curtis. But when playing against the best in January, it's tough to overcome that by yourself. The one year we had TO and were almost unstoppable isn't an anomaly.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 07:01 PM) *
Sure I can. I just did.

I think the meaning of my statement was obvious to everyone but you. For your clarification, using a past his prime McNabb, under a different coach, with a different team, is a poor example to use to promote your point

QUOTE
He was 35. The great QBs of our generation have had a lot of success at that point in their careers. Which should tell you everything you need to know about McNabb the QB.

Actually what it tells me is that McNabb is not included in the discussion when it comes to great QBs playing well at ages 35 and up. He doesn't belong in that conversation. His skills had eroded by the time he left Philly and they were gone by the time he hit Min.

QUOTE
Why then?

Because he was no longer an NFL caliber QB. Every year there are teams starved for a QB and yet no one picked up the phone and called McNabb. Wonder why?

QUOTE
Everyone passes more than they run these days.

That would be a great counter point if you were having a discussion with someone who claimed otherwise.

QUOTE
Because McNabb is an inconsistent passer. Now you're getting it.
Because Donovan was an inconsistent passer.
Right. And my point then and now is that this statement is inaccurate. Like a McNabb 10 yard out.

Now think about these statements you just made. With McNabb, you had an inconsistent QB. So what does Reid do? He relies on a pass heavy attack, and if I am understanding your point up thread, hoped to call enough pass plays for McNabb to overcome his inconsistency. That may very well be what Reid was thinking but he never did get that ring with this approach. Many coaches, given McNabb's liabilities, would have a plan B in place for when McNabb was too inconsistent to execute plan A. 4 NFC championship games in a row, 3 of which the Eagles were favored to win, and all he managed was a single NFC title. Congrats Reid, you made it as far as Vermeil. A more experienced Reid may have adjusted his approach. The Reid that was in Phi was too stubborn to adjust.

QUOTE
He correctly thought that this philosophy would lead to the most success. And hoped it could result in a Lombardi.

You are assuming that a different approach would not have led to more success.


QUOTE
Considering we had unprecedented success and were the most successful NFC team of the decade, he was correct about the first part.

Unless you define success as winning a Super Bowl, which I do. I would take the success of the Giant's 2 Super Bowls over the Eagle's decade of ruling the won-loss column.

QUOTE
Lots of factors contributed to the second part not coming to fruition.
Donovan being inconsistent (and having a few untimely injuries) are just some of those factors.

I will add a few factors for you. Reid's historically high pass ratio. Reid's failure to provide McNabb with above average WRs to support his pass happy offense with Owens being the one year exception. Reid's horrible clock management.



Phits
He (#5) was a great QB in the 'wrong system'. That's on Andy. After all this time why do you still fail to acknowledge that? It doesn't make AR a bad coach.

McNabb would have gotten us a bunch of picks and/or players at any point between 04-08 (the period in which some have suggested he deteriorated). In hindsight it was either that, or adjust the game plan and get the appropriate players to make it work.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 03:24 PM) *
He was pass heavy because he was inaccurate. How do you not see this? It didn't change the reality that he was still a top-10 QB. He was just an inconsistent passer.

I'm sure Andy would have loved to have upgraded the situation (and he tried to do so with Kolb), but acquiring QBs is hard as fuck and Kolb was another air raid bust.

Andy clearly doesn't want to be as pass heavy as he was with Donovan. Which is exactly what we're seeing in KC.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 02:58 PM) *
He (#5) was a great QB in the 'wrong system'. That's on Andy. After all this time why do you still fail to acknowledge that? It doesn't make AR a bad coach.

McNabb would have gotten us a bunch of picks and/or players at any point between 04-08 (the period in which some have suggested he deteriorated). In hindsight it was either that, or adjust the game plan and get the appropriate players to make it work.

The problem with your argument is that I can point to real evidence to suggest Andy Reid's pass happy nature was very QB specific.

You can't point to another scheme where Donovan had even remotely as much success.

But sure, it was Donovan's eroded skills which resulted in his immediate post Andy flameout. Fail to accept that he had his third best statistical season in his last one in Andy's terrible offense.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 09:12 PM) *
You can't point to another scheme where Donovan had even remotely as much success.


That is because the Donovan that existed in Philly, the guy with the strong arm and mobility, no longer existed when he left. Why do you think Reid traded him for a 2nd round pick, to a divisional rival at that? It sure as hell wasn't because McNabb could still play at his former Pro-Bowl level. Reid knew it.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 03:20 PM) *
That is because the Donovan that existed in Philly, the guy with the strong arm and mobility, no longer existed when he left. Why do you think Reid traded him for a 2nd round pick, to a divisional rival at that? It sure as hell wasn't because McNabb could still play at his former Pro-Bowl level. Reid knew it.

After achieving the third best passer rating in his career. And then dropping 15 points with the "run heavy" Mike Shanahan.

Why do you think the Shanahan traded for him? Because he still looked like a viable NFL QB after 2010. Thanks to a coach that actually did clearly know how to get the most out of him.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 04:12 PM) *
Fail to accept that he had his third best statistical season in his last one in Andy's terrible offense.

Don't forget in that last season he finally had an entire cast of receivers that were actually good. AR clearly saw that as his peak season and knew that it was the best opportunity to get some value for him.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 09:41 PM) *
Why do you think the Shanahan traded for him?

Because like you, Shanahan was wrong about McNabb's ability.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 04:01 PM) *
Don't forget in that last season he finally had an entire cast of receivers that were actually good. AR clearly saw that as his peak season and knew that it was the best opportunity to get some value for him.

Haha. Yes yes. Buffoon Andy who plugged an incompatible QB into his offense for a decade clearly identified Donovan's peak and unloaded him at the optimal time.
Right before the wheels completely fell off.

Do I have to travel back down memory lane and find all the posts telling me how he was going to crush it in Washington with a coach that finally knows how to run the ball?

You dudes are a trip.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 10:10 PM) *
Haha. Yes yes. Buffoon Andy who plugged an incompatible QB into his offense for a decade clearly identified Donovan's peak and unloaded him at the optimal time.
Right before the wheels completely fell off.

Do I have to travel back down memory lane and find all the posts telling me how he was going to crush it in Washington with a coach that finally knows how to run the ball?

You dudes are a trip.


I think you are going to have to do just that. I know for one that I never posted that Donovan was going to crush it in Washington.
Phits
Wouldn't that explain why they drafted McNabb replacement years prior?

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 05:10 PM) *
Haha. Yes yes. Buffoon Andy who plugged an incompatible QB into his offense for a decade clearly identified Donovan's peak and unloaded him at the optimal time.
Right before the wheels completely fell off.

Do I have to travel back down memory lane and find all the posts telling me how he was going to crush it in Washington with a coach that finally knows how to run the ball?

You dudes are a trip.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 04:47 PM) *
Wouldn't that explain why they drafted McNabb replacement years prior?

They drafted Kolb after the 07 season. Because Donovan kept getting hurt. I suspect once Andy got his hands on his new air raid QB, he realized he wasn't what he had thought. Which is why we saw 3 more seasons of McNabb. And then quickly moved onto Vick once McNabb was gone.

Andy knew what he had in Donovan. And he knew it was hard to acquire a better replacement. I fully acknowledge that Donovan was a good QB. But his flaws were obvious. Statistically, it made sense to give Donovan more opportunities to move the chains with his arms, because he was streaky as hell would miss routine throws before going on a lights out streak.

It's why things looked so good at times and so unbelievably bad at times. Donovan was like a basketball player that needed to shoot his way out of a slump. But ultimately, he was the guy we needed to have the ball if we wanted to be successful.

When it was good, he was a top-5 QB in football. When he was off, he was really bad. Andy brought out more good than bad.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 04:19 PM) *
I think you are going to have to do just that. I know for one that I never posted that Donovan was going to crush it in Washington.

Frankly I can't see any action from you on the board around that time. Phits and our Scottish friend appear to be the two biggest believers of the "just watch what Shanahan can do" bandwagon.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 06:22 PM) *
Frankly I can't see any action from you on the board around that time. Phits and our Scottish friend appear to be the two biggest believers of the "just watch what Shanahan can do" bandwagon.


Just that phrase is pretty funny regardless of the player when you consider Shanahan in DC....lol
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 10:22 PM) *
Frankly I can't see any action from you on the board around that time. Phits and our Scottish friend appear to be the two biggest believers of the "just watch what Shanahan can do" bandwagon.


Not surprised. I am hot and cold when it comes to posting here, especially during the off-season. I was done with both Reid and McNabb before either of them left Philly and I am pretty sure I posted something to that effect on this board.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 05:50 PM) *
Not surprised. I am hot and cold when it comes to posting here, especially during the off-season. I was done with both Reid and McNabb before either of them left Philly and I am pretty sure I posted something to that effect on this board.

You're missed when you're gone <3

I hate that this turned into one of those threads. I'm real excited about Doug. The fact that he is an Andy disciple had a lot more positives than negatives.

If Doug and Carson become another Andy and Donovan, we are in for a fun decade.

CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 11:03 PM) *
You're missed when you're gone <3

I hate that this turned into one of those threads. I'm real excited about Doug. The fact that he is an Andy disciple had a lot more positives than negatives.

If Doug and Carson become another Andy and Donovan, we are in for a fun decade.


Thank you for the compliment. You are always good for a debate.

I don't know about you but I need more. I just turned 50. If Doug and Carson only make it as far Reid and McNabb, I may find myself looking at another rebuild at around 62 or 63 and the very real possibility of never seeing a Super Bowl victory.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 12 2016, 06:41 PM) *
Thank you for the compliment. You are always good for a debate.

I don't know about you but I need more. I just turned 50. If Doug and Carson only make it as far Reid and McNabb, I may find myself looking at another rebuild at around 62 or 63 and the very real possibility of never seeing a Super Bowl victory.

Well, I expect more. And I expected more of Andy and Donnie. We were a bit cursed during our NFCCG run. Donnie breaking his leg in 2002 (which I'll always say was our best team). Donnie busting his rib the first series against Carolina. TO's ankle injury and the Pats being in full scale cheat mode in 2004.

That was a special run, but sometimes you need to get a little bit lucky. We couldn't seem to catch a break from an injury perspective.

Our best shot will always revolve around having great QB play. I'm glad we have had a FO for the past 17 years that acknowledges that. Hopefully Carson is our guy. The early signs are positive.
nephillymike
Got to disagree here 'Nabby.

When Reid left here, he had the highest % pass plays for a coach ever.

If you look at the play action mechanics, Mc Nabb had none. Wentz has great pass action mechanics.

That is coached. I have witnessed 11 year old football teams whose QBS had better play action QB mechanics than McNabb.

Andy had no interest in running the ball.

You thought Andy was hiding McNabb's passing inaccuracy?

Mc Nabb couldn't learn other playbooks. I think his 13 wonderlic score hindered what he could do, especially his handicap when he left here.

In his defense, it's not easy qbing without a play action game and a lopsided play mix.




mcnabbulous
How do you explain our balance with Feeley and Garcia. And now Alex Smith in KC?
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 10:27 PM) *
How do you explain our balance with Feeley and Garcia. And now Alex Smith in KC?

According to their completion % Feeley (55) wasn't more accurate than McNabb (59). Garcia (61.6) was only slightly more accurate. All 3 of their Y/A hover at 7 yards per.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 09:45 PM) *
According to their completion % Feeley (55) wasn't more accurate than McNabb (59). Garcia (61.6) was only slightly more accurate. All 3 of their Y/A hover at 7 yards per.

That's not an answer to my question.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 10:49 PM) *
That's not an answer to my question.

Yes, but it helps to refute your argument regarding AR's skewed run/pass ratio. You contend that McNabb's inaccuracy caused AR to call more passes. Both Garcia and Feeley completed (roughly) the same % of passes as McNabb.

As for why AR (in PHI) opted to call a more balanced attack with his backup QB's, isn't that par for the course? Coaches don't usually put the same pressure on their backups as they do their starters.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2016, 10:05 PM) *
Yes, but it helps to refute your argument regarding AR's skewed run/pass ratio. You contend that McNabb's inaccuracy caused AR to call more passes. Both Garcia and Feeley completed (roughly) the same % of passes as McNabb.


No. I said McNabb's inconsistency caused AR to pass more.

QUOTE
As for why AR (in PHI) opted to call a more balanced attack with his backup QB's, isn't that par for the course? Coaches don't usually put the same pressure on their backups as they do their starters.

Which would hold water if his experience in KC wasn't exactly like his experience with Garcia. Which is exactly as I predicted. (Happy to provide some examples if you doubt it)
Reality Fan
I think AR called a more balanced attack then many think...there were a few outlier years in the 13 where it was really unbalanced but for the most part AR was a 55/45 pass/run guy. 2005 was a really unbalanced year if I recall but I think if you look at the numbers you will find they ran between 43-47% of the time. It is just that in the unbalanced years they were really down in the 30% range.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2016, 11:11 PM) *
No. I said McNabb's inconsistency caused AR to pass more.

Other than completion % what other statistic can you draw on to determine consistency?


QUOTE
Which would hold water if his experience in KC wasn't exactly like his experience with Garcia. Which is exactly as I predicted. (Happy to provide some examples if you doubt it)

Garcia played started 6 games for PHI, that's not a large enough sample size to determine that what he would have done with Garcia as the full time starter.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 13 2016, 08:36 AM) *
Other than completion % what other statistic can you draw on to determine consistency?

My eyes. Watching him routinely show up for one half at a time.

Like I said, when he was on, he was great. But the truly great ones don't have the lows like Donnie had.


QUOTE
Garcia played started 6 games for PHI, that's not a large enough sample size to determine that what he would have done with Garcia as the full time starter.

Which is why we have Alex Smith to show you.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 13 2016, 09:58 AM) *
My eyes. Watching him routinely show up for one half at a time.

Ironically, that's the same argument used against Andy Reid.


QUOTE
Which is why we have Alex Smith to show you.

I would counter that by suggesting Alex Smith is a good game manager, with a dynamic group of offensive weapons. Outside of his final year, in PHI, McNabb did't have that luxury. When he had the weapons his performance improved.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 13 2016, 11:20 AM) *
Ironically, that's the same argument used against Andy Reid.

Sure, but it's a copout argument. Like I said, I can point to real, tangible evidence that Andy isn't the pass happy guy you guys are accusing him of being. You can't point to Donovan being any better in a different offense.

And the fact that he was out of the league at 35, when the best QBs of this era are still thriving, says quite a bit about Donovan the QB, IMO.

QUOTE
I would counter that by suggesting Alex Smith is a good game manager, with a dynamic group of offensive weapons. Outside of his final year, in PHI, McNabb did't have that luxury. When he had the weapons his performance improved.

Until acquiring Maclin last offseason, the Chiefs receiving group was considered to be one of the worst in football. They were still one of the run heaviest teams in football despite this fact.

And this isn't about the QB's performance. This is about the playcalling. And Andy's has been far more balanced when Donovan hasn't been his QB. There is far too much smoke for me to believe that's a coincidence.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.