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Zero
All of this makes sense, but the concern for me would be Bradford's injury history combined with if Bridgewater is able to recover. It's a bold move but Bradford's knee would be my biggest worry.
QUOTE
Last year, Bradford had easily his best season as a QB under OC Pat Shurmur, whom he also worked under during his OROY season in 2010, although he missed two games due to a shoulder and a concussion. Still he had over 3,700 yards passing in 14 games, 7.0 yards per attempt, 65% completion percentage, 19 TDs, 14 INTs, and an 86.4 QB rating. Generally these numbers put him in the middle of the pack, which is where Bridgewater was last year too. It's worth noting that after missing a year and a half, Bradford started out last year slow, but improved significantly in the second-half of the year.

Bradford's relative success last year is mildly encouraging, and PFF writes that doing the deal puts the Vikings back as a Super Bowl contender.
Here ..
Zero
The Eagles moved the hands on the clock, both for Wentz and the ultimate contention goal. Sure, they're less likely to contend this year, but getting the rook onto the field, potentially very early means he'll likely be ready to be The Man much sooner. Adding that #1 gives Douglas and Weidl a chance to fill a hole sooner than we expected.

From PFF:
QUOTE
Philadelphia officially steps into transition mode, as Daniel takes over as the likely starter and the Wentz clock starts ticking a little bit faster. Daniel has 76 career attempts to his name and he has been just about average during that time. He struggled during the preseason, ranking No. 56 of 84 quarterbacks in PFF grades, and there are few indicators that he’ll be a better-than-average starter this season, especially with a still-questionable receiving corps in Philadelphia. This is still a very strong Eagles roster, and they play in a wide-open division in the NFC East, but this looks much more like a rebuilding season for Philadelphia following this trade.

The expectation for Wentz was to sit this season in a “redshirt” year, but assuming he comes back healthy from preseason injury, he might see the field much sooner than anticipated. In our prospect rankings leading into the 2016 NFL Draft, we had Wentz ranked as the second-best QB in the draft behind Jared Goff, ranking him 14th overall (Goff was No. 4 overall).

Wentz is a work in progress, and it wouldn’t be surprising if he struggled if forced into action this season, but as colleague Sam Monson wrote during the draft process, Wentz has “jackpot” potential if he reaches his ceiling. It certainly makes sense for the long-term strength of the franchise to pave the way to build around Wentz, regaining a first-round pick that they had to give up in order to trade up for Wentz in the process.
nephillymike
Also,

Someone said that BW injury could be a 12 month type, making his readiness for TC a question mark and further creating an opportunity for Sam in 2017,early at least.

Besides, BW ain't all of that. Just a few notches above Sam, although younger.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 4 2016, 08:58 AM) *
Also,

Someone said that BW injury could be a 12 month type, making his readiness for TC a question mark and further creating an opportunity for Sam in 2017,early at least.

Besides, BW ain't all of that. Just a few notches above Sam, although younger.

Everyone, including Sam knew he was only a placeholder here. This trade eliminates that and accelerates Wentz's maturation. Not sure how else it will affect this year but it should make next year more interesting.
Aitkens
Not if, but when they Eagles have no shot at the Playoffs, I fully expect the Wentz-era to begin. I'd expect him to start the final 4 games of this season.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Aitkens @ Sep 4 2016, 10:42 AM) *
Not if, but when they Eagles have no shot at the Playoffs, I fully expect the Wentz-era to begin. I'd expect him to start the final 4 games of this season.

Word is that the Wentz era begins as soon as he is healthy, which is week two the latest
Zero
I'd be more comfortable waiting a week or three .. make sure he's healthy and give him more time to split practice reps with the #1's.

Welcome back, Aitkens.
Aitkens
I've never been one who agreed with throwing a rookie QB right into the fire. Always thought it was best to give them a half a season to adjust to the game and day to day changes. Sure there are examples of guys who were able to make the jump immediately, but far too many that went the other direction.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Aitkens @ Sep 5 2016, 11:36 AM) *
I've never been one who agreed with throwing a rookie QB right into the fire. Always thought it was best to give them a half a season to adjust to the game and day to day changes. Sure there are examples of guys who were able to make the jump immediately, but far too many that went the other direction.


^^^^ This

And I hate the fact we're doing it too.
Reality Fan
It is not apples to apples though. When you go to a lousy team and start right away vs. a good team and start right away.

Through all this Bradford saga that was always the thing that confused me. If a QB gets drafted by a bad team and the team begins to build the rookie QB is in a good place to grow and learn by taking his lumps. If a rookie QB is drafted by a lousy team with lousy management (see ST. Louis) then they are in an unwinnable position. Dak has a good O Line (way overrated but good) AND he has a great WR. That makes a world of difference.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 5 2016, 01:07 PM) *
It is not apples to apples though. When you go to a lousy team and start right away vs. a good team and start right away.

Through all this Bradford saga that was always the thing that confused me. If a QB gets drafted by a bad team and the team begins to build the rookie QB is in a good place to grow and learn by taking his lumps. If a rookie QB is drafted by a lousy team with lousy management (see ST. Louis) then they are in an unwinnable position. Dak has a good O Line (way overrated but good) AND he has a great WR. That makes a world of difference.


That's my main hope...that at least the line can keep Prescott from becoming like the Texan's David Carr and miss out on his potential due to shell shock.

That's gonna be the main thing with Wentze too. Give him the time to learn to read what's happening out there. I know Wentze has the tools, because Garrett coached him at the Senior Bowl and I'm pretty sure we were hoping for him to fall to us.
Eyrie
A good OL is key for a rookie QB, because it gives him time to see the defence and make a play rather than throwing to his first read or worrying about getting hit.

There's still no news on Johnson, which I'm hoping means good news there. I'll have fewer concerns about starting Wentz so soon if he has both starting Ts to protect him.
samaroo
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Sep 6 2016, 03:49 AM) *
A good OL is key for a rookie QB, because it gives him time to see the defence and make a play rather than throwing to his first read or worrying about getting hit.

There's still no news on Johnson, which I'm hoping means good news there
. I'll have fewer concerns about starting Wentz so soon if he has both starting Ts to protect him.


Nope! I'd rather know now. We seem to be planning on him playing, but if he's suspended and we have to shuffle our OL last minute...man. That's my #1 worry right now.
Joegrane
No way! I want them to delay a couple of weeks. The games vs Cleveland and Chicago are two of the more winnable games this year. Having Johnson could easily be the difference between a W and a L!

The Eagles have that tough stretch in the middle to latter part of the season when they go up against 5 or 6 likely playoff caliber teams in a row. They are likely losses regardless of Johnson's availability.

Then they end the season against three teams that probably won't be in playoff contention, although Romo might be back by then.

If Johnson plays the first two games, then misses 10, he'll be back to try to get a couple more Ws against non-playoff caliber teams. Two of those games are in Philly.

Winning two of the final three games would give them a bit of consolation and momentum heading into 2017.

QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 5 2016, 06:02 PM) *
Nope! I'd rather know now. We seem to be planning on him playing, but if he's suspended and we have to shuffle our OL last minute...man. That's my #1 worry right now.

samaroo
I always want to see a Birds win, but I'll consider this year a success if I see:

1. Dougie P can coach a football team.

2. The D is vastly improved.

3. Wentz is the QB we hope he is.
Joegrane
I agree with you but in reverse order.

I've already assumed that Pederson won't be anything special. Hopefully the coaching staff as a whole can be greater than the sum of the parts.

I also am confident Schwartz can make the solid talent on D play well.

So much hinges on the development of Wentz.

I'd also add that Howie and his talent evaluators show signs of improvement. We know he can wheel and deal, but can he run a solid group of talent evaluators.

I'd like to repeat how fortunate we are to have Mr Lurie as the owner in our city. He has really gone above and beyond to save the ship from sinking and to give the team a seemingly solid foundation to build on.

QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 5 2016, 10:04 PM) *
I always want to see a Birds win, but I'll consider this year a success if I see:

1. Dougie P can coach a football team.

2. The D is vastly improved.

3. Wentz is the QB we hope he is.

Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 5 2016, 11:23 PM) *
I've already assumed that Pederson won't be anything special.

Why? I had my doubts early but he seems to be moving the needle for me with how he's handling players and using them on the field.
The Franchise
QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 6 2016, 05:21 AM) *
Why? I had my doubts early but he seems to be moving the needle for me with how he's handling players and using them on the field.


If he can manage a clock and call a balanced attack I'll be in euphoria.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 6 2016, 05:21 AM) *
Why? I had my doubts early but he seems to be moving the needle for me with how he's handling players and using them on the field.

So far I have been pleasantly surprised.

Keeping fingers crossed.
JeeQ
Vikings will be lucky to go 8-8
Joegrane
Why do you think the Vikes will only win 8 when they won 11 last year?

QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 8 2016, 12:19 PM) *
Vikings will be lucky to go 8-8

Phits
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 8 2016, 01:14 PM) *
Why do you think the Vikes will only win 8 when they won 11 last year?

A couple of reasons, Shaun Hill is likely to be the week 1 starter. Then there's the "Sam Bradford" factor. Another system, another year, another excuse. He has no game experience as a Viking. Regardless of his football IQ it should take at least a few games for him to acclimate. What are the Vegas odds on the number of games Sammy misses due to injury this season (over/under)?
Joegrane
Game 1 is vs Tenn.

He should be more likely to stay healthy since the opposing D has to focus on AP and hopefully he'll have more third and short situations. Sam should do well in those situations once he gels with his receivers.

QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 8 2016, 02:07 PM) *
A couple of reasons, Shaun Hill is likely to be the week 1 starter. Then there's the "Sam Bradford" factor. Another system, another year, another excuse. He has no game experience as a Viking. Regardless of his football IQ it should take at least a few games for him to acclimate. What are the Vegas odds on the number of games Sammy misses due to injury this season (over/under)?

Reality Fan
Pretty funny.....Bradford went 7-6(I did not include the Miami game because he was knocked out of that game)on a team with a terrible defense and a mediocre line and lousy WR.

He goes to a team with a top 10 defense in points against, a decent O line and a world class RB and decent WRs and he will only win 8 games? Lets wager....please....
Joegrane
...and he has had a full, healthy offseason to work out and feel his best.

Recall that at the beginning of last year analysts were complaining about how he was pushing off the formerly injured leg in a strange way, etc.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 8 2016, 03:53 PM) *
Pretty funny.....Bradford went 7-6 on a team with a terrible defense and a mediocre line and lousy WR.

He goes to a team with a top 10 defense in points against, a decent O line and a world class RB and decent WRs and he will only win 8 games? Lets wager....please....

Phits
[/quote]
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 8 2016, 03:53 PM) *
Pretty funny.....Bradford went 7-6 on a team with a terrible defense and a mediocre line and lousy WR.

He goes to a team with a top 10 defense in points against, a decent O line and a world class RB and decent WRs and he will only win 8 games? Lets wager....please....

Decent receivers is a bit of an overstatement. Vikings WR ranked 24th in league

QUOTE
“The Vikings have two first-round wide receivers on their roster right now, but their best receiver was drafted in the fifth round a year ago. Stefon Diggs was tied for 25th in terms of overall grade among wide receivers, coming off a 52-catch, 720-yard regular season. Forcing 13 missed tackles, the Vikings will be hoping for even more in 2016. First-round draft pick Laquon Treadwell should help them out in the short-passing game, excelling on slant routes in college, and forcing 17 missed tackles on 82 receptions in his final year at Ole Miss. At tight end, Kyle Rudolph hasn’t quite developed into the complete package many had hoped for, but he has a solid pair of hands, dropping just 13 of the 199 catchable passes thrown his way in his five-year career.”


You had better hope that his history regarding his receivers and their dropped passes doesn't continue. I am expecting another 300+ carry season for AP. Unfortunately, the last time that happened his productivity dipped by 20%.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 8 2016, 05:27 PM) *
Decent receivers is a bit of an overstatement. Vikings WR ranked 24th in league



You had better hope that his history regarding his receivers and their dropped passes doesn't continue. I am expecting another 300+ carry season for AP. Unfortunately, the last time that happened his productivity dipped by 20%.


lol...AP has had 300 carries several times (4) and each time his production dropped the next year, the last time by nearly 40%, but there are several reason for it.....that being said he has looked good in camp and seems primed for another big year. Their WRs are ok with Diggs and once Treadwell is not overwhelmed by the playbook they will have another weapon. But you are right, they do not have a bonafide stud.
JeeQ
The two camps still remain:

Those who think Bradford has Super Bowl caliber potential and he's just been unlucky with teams since 2010. All he needs is the right WRs!

Those who've watched Badford be consistently injured throughout his entire career and never have a winning season. This is his 7th season and his best has been 7 wins
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 8 2016, 05:56 PM) *
lol...AP has had 300 carries several times (4) and each time his production dropped the next year, the last time by nearly 40%, but there are several reason for it.....that being said he has looked good in camp and seems primed for another big year. Their WRs are ok with Diggs and once Treadwell is not overwhelmed by the playbook they will have another weapon. But you are right, they do not have a bonafide stud.

What I meant to say is that I expect AP to have another 300+ carry season (back to back). How much longer can the old boy last?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 8 2016, 04:56 PM) *
lol...AP has had 300 carries several times (4) and each time his production dropped the next year, the last time by nearly 40%, but there are several reason for it.....that being said he has looked good in camp and seems primed for another big year. Their WRs are ok with Diggs and once Treadwell is not overwhelmed by the playbook they will have another weapon. But you are right, they do not have a bonafide stud.

Fwiw,

Our receiving corps and OL are rated higher than MIN.

I know I just gave yet another excuse.

No Bradford bet I guess?
Joegrane
Last year or this year? I assume that includes L Johnson.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 8 2016, 08:18 PM) *
Fwiw,

Our receiving corps and OL are rated higher than MIN.
...

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 8 2016, 08:45 PM) *
Last year or this year? I assume that includes L Johnson.

This year Lindys season preview
Reality Fan
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 8 2016, 07:24 PM) *
The two camps still remain:

Those who think Bradford has Super Bowl caliber potential and he's just been unlucky with teams since 2010. All he needs is the right WRs!

Those who've watched Badford be consistently injured throughout his entire career and never have a winning season. This is his 7th season and his best has been 7 wins


This is really a screwy view.....did he play on 6 different teams? No...he played for 6 seasons on the same shitty team that had one of the worst O lines in all of football for his first 3 years. When he finally got a little decent line play he was off to good start..14 TDs and 4 picks through 7 games before blowing up his knee 2 years in a row...all with the same shitty Rams organization...all with no serviceable WRs.....as bad as out WRs were last year they were, by far, the best he ever had. You make is sound like he went to a few decent teams and never did anything. He was drafted by one of the worst franchises in the last decade and they continued to act like it after drafting him. I have to laugh when people talk about him as if he was not on one of the least talented offensive teams in NFL history for 5 years. The Rams last winning season was 13 years ago...that is not a QBs fault...that is a terribly run team. (and that does not even take into account all the OC and HC changes in St. Louis) This is not conjecture, this is merely the history of the Rams....look it up.

And if Bradford has been consistently injured what does that say about Wentz? He missed 7 games last year and 3 preseason games this year already. Bradford had the misfortune of tearing his ACL and it appears that it was not properly repaired and tore again before getting fixed correctly. That is bad luck. How he survived 14 games last year with the beating he took I have no idea but it showed his toughness.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 8 2016, 08:27 PM) *
Excuses


I gave nothing but facts you made nothing but excuses for them

No winning seasons is no winning seasons

I'm honestly amazed Badford still has defenders while QBs who've actually won something in this league and have winning records continually get shitted on. The fact Mr. 7 Wins garners a 1st RD pick after 6 seasons of being a loser is a fucking double rainbow to me but I won't complain since it's to our benefit.

I will take your bet and say no winning seasons keeps the streak alive. Badford isn't winning 9 games this season.

If he wins more than 8 games I'll rock a Badford avatar for the rest of the season. If he doesn't you rock a Badford avatar until next season. Since you like the son of a bitch you shouldn't have any problem with showing your love for him and celebrating his first winning season in 7 years in the NFL.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 9 2016, 02:02 AM) *
I gave nothing but facts you made nothing but excuses for them

No winning seasons is no winning seasons

I'm honestly amazed Badford still has defenders while QBs who've actually won something in this league and have winning records continually get shitted on. The fact Mr. 7 Wins garners a 1st RD pick after 6 seasons of being a loser is a fucking double rainbow to me but I won't complain since it's to our benefit.

I will take your bet and say no winning seasons keeps the streak alive. Badford isn't winning 9 games this season.

If he wins more than 8 games I'll rock a Badford avatar for the rest of the season. If he doesn't you rock a Badford avatar until next season. Since you like the son of a bitch you shouldn't have any problem with showing your love for him and celebrating his first winning season in 7 years in the NFL.

And I supplied you with facts....name another QB who made chicken salad with the kind of chicken shit that Bradford played under. Just one.

I gladly accept it. Explain why the rams have been bad for 13 years. That is the real story.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 9 2016, 09:16 AM) *
I gladly accept it. Explain why the rams have been bad for 13 years. That is the real story.

Because they have now spent two #1 picks on air raid QBs
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 9 2016, 10:16 AM) *
And I supplied you with facts....name another QB who made chicken salad with the kind of chicken shit that Bradford played under. Just one.

I gladly accept it. Explain why the rams have been bad for 13 years. That is the real story.

If the WR's he played with in STL were so 'shitty', how do you explain the '14 TDs and 4 picks through 7 games'? The couldn't have been all bad. Good QB's make the players around them better. He's yet to prove he is a good QB.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 9 2016, 10:51 AM) *
Because they have now spent two #1 picks on air raid QBs


Well played....but here I thought it was the drafting of these guys

2013 3 Stedman Bailey WR
2012 2 Brian Quick WR
2012 4 Chris Givens WR
2011 3 Austin Pettis WR
2011 4 Greg Salas WR
2010 4 Mardy Gilyard WR
2009 5 Brooks Foster WR
2008 2 Donnie Avery WR
2008 4 Keenan Burton WR
2007 7 Derek Stanley WR
2006 5 Marques Hagans WR

Not to mention spending a 1 on Tavon Austin, a gimmick player and guys like Bud Sasser.

They, like you, apparently feel the guy on the other end of the pass is not responsible for A) getting open and cool.gif catching the ball

And you thought Andy Reid did not value the WR position....lol
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