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Joegrane
If the Sixers are going with Simmons, will they trade Dario Saric to try to get another pick the Top 10?

One analyst has the opinion that if Saric was in the draft this year, he'd be a Top 5 pick. Remember his long range shooting has improved substantially.

Saric's game is somewhat similar to Simmons'.

nephillymike
Has he even announced whether or not he's coming to the NBA this year?

I have a feeling that Okafor will have a better career than Embiid.

Any one else agree?
HobbEs
No, I highly doubt they will trade Saric. If anything it will be one of Noel or Okafor that goes. A Simmons/Saric front court may actually work.

Joegrane
I suppose it works on offense since Dario's shooting range has improved. Can either of them guard the 3/SF?
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Jun 23 2016, 09:06 AM) *
No, I highly doubt they will trade Saric. ... A Simmons/Saric front court may actually work.

Joegrane
I expect Okafor to end his career with more points than Embiid; however, is that the best indicator of the value of a center?

I can't imagine there is any doubt that a healthy Embiid will be a better defender and rebounder.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2016, 11:02 PM) *
Has he even announced whether or not he's coming to the NBA this year?

I have a feeling that Okafor will have a better career than Embiid.

Any one else agree?

Joegrane
I'm surprised that they did not move any of their Bigs during the draft. Coach will have fun trying to get minutes for all of his Bigs.

I wonder if the log jam on the front line will keep Saric in Europe.

The two late round first round picks appear to have potential to develop into valuable role players.

Timothe Luwawu appears to be a long, SG defensive specialist with inconsistent offensive skills.

The other SG, F Korkmaz, is a teammate of Saric but the details of his contract and his age seem to suggest that he'll be in Europe for at least a year.

NBA.com had Korkmaz as the #5 SG prospect with a mid-first round grade.

I wonder if that pick also says something about how much they like Saric. He gets to have a friend with him in Philly.


QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 22 2016, 05:40 PM) *
If the Sixers are going with Simmons, will they trade Dario Saric to try to get another pick the Top 10?

One analyst has the opinion that if Saric was in the draft this year, he'd be a Top 5 pick. Remember his long range shooting has improved substantially.

Saric's game is somewhat similar to Simmons'.

nephillymike
One thing I wonder about.

When they were building this team and drafting guys, how much did they hurt their ultimate return on investment by drafting players that can't play together?

Embiid, Noel and Okafor?

Embiid isn't going to play much so there should be enough minutes this year.

I heard that Noel would fetch more than Okafor.

That makes little sense to me.

With their need at PG, wouldn't Villanova's Archidiacono have made sense for an undrafted looksee? He got a partially guaranteed deal from Spurs.

Also, with the tanking and saving money, the thought was that we'd get a decent amount of FA's. Problem is, the cap is almost doubling in a two year span, so there won't be many FA's to get.

I'm fine with them not trading with BOS if the reported deal of Noel, Covington and the 24th and 26th picks for the #3 spot.

Pass on that one.

I initially wanted Ingram, but after seeing the highlights. listening to the "experts" and hearing Simmons in interviews, I think he was the better pick.

Should be fun in the years coming up.
Joegrane
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 24 2016, 10:25 PM) *


One thing I wonder about.

When they were building this team and drafting guys, how much did they hurt their ultimate return on investment by drafting players that can't play together?

Embiid, Noel and Okafor?


Embiid's health problems screwed them. It is hard to make a decision because you don't know what he'll be able to give you and you don't see him developing.

They also had some bad luck last year. If they got D Russell last year they'd be in much better shape. They'd have a PG who can shoot to go with their point-forward.


Had Porzingis been willing to come to Philly they also would have been better off than with Okafor.


Embiid isn't going to play much so there should be enough minutes this year.


It will have to be that way this year. I assume he'll get plenty of opportunity to develop his face-to-basket game playing PF rather than C.

I heard that Noel would fetch more than Okafor.

That makes little sense to me.


How much does the remaining years on the contract affect trade value? I assume that is balanced by the development of the player--a reduced risk when someone is developing nicely.

With their need at PG, wouldn't Villanova's Archidiacono have made sense for an undrafted looksee? He got a partially guaranteed deal from Spurs.

I liked him as a college PG but I doubt he'll have the athleticism to play in the NBA. Also we'll have to see what his NBA 3pt shooting % will be. They would have been asking for trouble by signing him. You don't want to have to cut a local guy.

Also, with the tanking and saving money, the thought was that we'd get a decent amount of FA's. Problem is, the cap is almost doubling in a two year span, so there won't be many FA's to get.

I think they'd be better off signing an aging veteran PG for veteran leadership.


I'm fine with them not trading with BOS if the reported deal of Noel, Covington and the 24th and 26th picks for the #3 spot.

Pass on that one.


I strongly agree with you. Covington is a solid piece of the puzzle. I think the guys they drafted at 24 and 26 will be puzzle pieces as well. There is no way I'd have made that trade.

I initially wanted Ingram, but after seeing the highlights. listening to the "experts" and hearing Simmons in interviews, I think he was the better pick.


I did not see them play this year; just an hour or two of film breakdown by analysts. I also favored Ingram, but I'm influenced by being a Nova fan--4 shooters and one Big.


The NBA game is somewhat different. If Simmons develops a decent mid-range shot and solid FT% they should be in good shape. If he shoots bricks, they'll be in trouble; however the muscle and weight he put on makes me confident that he won't be a bust. He should at least be a solid PF on both sides of the ball.

Should be fun in the years coming up.

Yes, but I don't think it will be this year. I bet that if they don't move a C, Saric will stay in Europe. They will again be a bad team because they have too many people playing out of position-- NN and JE playing too many minutes at PF, a young Simmons playing too many minutes at SF, still very little talent in the backcourt. They'll be shooting bricks and hoping their Bigs can come down with the rebounds.

Joe


nephillymike
[quote name='Joegrane' date='Jun 25 2016, 01:56 PM' post='289122']
[quote name='nephillymike' post='289119' date='Jun 24 2016, 10:25 PM']

One thing I wonder about.

When they were building this team and drafting guys, how much did they hurt their ultimate return on investment by drafting players that can't play together?

Embiid, Noel and Okafor?


Embiid's health problems screwed them. It is hard to make a decision because you don't know what he'll be able to give you and you don't see him developing.

They also had some bad luck last year. If they got D Russell last year they'd be in much better shape. They'd have a PG who can shoot to go with their point-forward.


Had Porzingis been willing to come to Philly they also would have been better off than with Okafor.


Embiid isn't going to play much so there should be enough minutes this year.


It will have to be that way this year. I assume he'll get plenty of opportunity to develop his face-to-basket game playing PF rather than C.

I heard that Noel would fetch more than Okafor.

That makes little sense to me.


How much does the remaining years on the contract affect trade value? I assume that is balanced by the development of the player--a reduced risk when someone is developing nicely.

With their need at PG, wouldn't Villanova's Archidiacono have made sense for an undrafted looksee? He got a partially guaranteed deal from Spurs.

I liked him as a college PG but I doubt he'll have the athleticism to play in the NBA. Also we'll have to see what his NBA 3pt shooting % will be. They would have been asking for trouble by signing him. You don't want to have to cut a local guy.

Also, with the tanking and saving money, the thought was that we'd get a decent amount of FA's. Problem is, the cap is almost doubling in a two year span, so there won't be many FA's to get.

I think they'd be better off signing an aging veteran PG for veteran leadership.


I'm fine with them not trading with BOS if the reported deal of Noel, Covington and the 24th and 26th picks for the #3 spot.

Pass on that one.


I strongly agree with you. Covington is a solid piece of the puzzle. I think the guys they drafted at 24 and 26 will be puzzle pieces as well. There is no way I'd have made that trade.

I initially wanted Ingram, but after seeing the highlights. listening to the "experts" and hearing Simmons in interviews, I think he was the better pick.


I did not see them play this year; just an hour or two of film breakdown by analysts. I also favored Ingram, but I'm influenced by being a Nova fan--4 shooters and one Big.


The NBA game is somewhat different. If Simmons develops a decent mid-range shot and solid FT% they should be in good shape. If he shoots bricks, they'll be in trouble; however the muscle and weight he put on makes me confident that he won't be a bust. He should at least be a solid PF on both sides of the ball.

Should be fun in the years coming up.

Yes, but I don't think it will be this year. I bet that if they don't move a C, Saric will stay in Europe. They will again be a bad team because they have too many people playing out of position-- NN and JE playing too many minutes at PF, a young Simmons playing too many minutes at SF, still very little talent in the backcourt. They'll be shooting bricks and hoping their Bigs can come down with the rebounds.

Joe



Thanks. Good stuff.
nephillymike
According to the NBA draft prospect ranking sites, it looks like we did really well with the 24th and 26th picks.

Here is where they were ranked by the various sites:

Draft Site..........Lumanu(24th)........Korkmatx(26th)
CBS Sports.............13th........................26th
Draft Experts..........12th........................20th
ESPN (C. Ford)........26th........................13th
NBA Draftnet..........32nd.........................9th
SI.com...................11th.........................14th
Average Rank.........19th.........................16th


SBNation(Int'l Only).2nd..........................3rd

Both are SG's.

Not sure how their foreign contracts effect their timeline. But looks like we got good value.
Joegrane
My understanding is that Luwawu could come to Philly this year. Supposedly he is physically ready to contribute as a SG/SF defensive specialist. His game on O is a work in progress but he has the physical tools.

Due to the contract situation there is no way Korkmaz is coming this year. Also he is very young and thin. However he supposedly projects to be a good spot up 3pt shooter, just what they'll need to keep the defense from collapsing on Simmons.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2016, 12:01 PM) *
...

Draft Site..........Lumanu(24th)........Korkmatx(26th)
...
Average Rank.........19th.........................16th
...
Both are SG's.

Not sure how their foreign contracts effect their timeline. But looks like we got good value.

nephillymike
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/insider/s...s-last-15-years

Check this out.

They have Embiid as 9th.

Wonder where Simmons would rate in this list. Maybe top 10?
Eagle2720
Need insider to view it
nephillymike
QUOTE (Eagle2720 @ Jun 26 2016, 09:15 PM) *
Need insider to view it



Sorry about that.

I forgot I still have Insider. I was supposed to cancel the one month subscription after the NFL draft.
Eagle2720
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 26 2016, 10:31 PM) *
Sorry about that.

I forgot I still have Insider. I was supposed to cancel the one month subscription after the NFL draft.


No worries, I hate how ESPN charges for it.
D Rock
A few thoughts to add...

Joel was a shot in the dark at the front end of the tanking. I still hold hope he can play. He's young and super gifted.

Last year, we dodged a bullet by NOT getting Deangelo Russell. He's an asshole, and a fucking moron. Living in LA I get more lakers info than anything else, and the city is about to storm their facility and drag that kid out of town. I'm sure ya'll heard what he did to his Nick last season? He secretly video recorded a conversation with him talking about cheating on his pop star girl friend, then uploaded it social media. HAHAHAHAHA.

There was no question for me when it came to Simmons vs. Ingram. The only viable argument for going with Ingram was "fit." But to me, he's got more bust potential. Simmons is the real deal and is the clear cut finest player in this class. LSU was dysfunctional, and injury riddled. And Simmons shoots better than his reputation suggests.

I love the 2 later picks. TLC will contribute right away. Furking Korkmaz will need a year or 2 due to his contract and youth, but he's a legit shooter. And will come over and add offensive punch.

Noel has to stick around. Okafor is to me, the one who should go. He's too one dimensional and requires the ball to excel in that dimension. Noel is an ideal rim protecting center to play with Simmons, and can score off the p-n-r in a Deandre Jordan sort of roll-n-throwdown role.

For our immediate PG needs, re-up Ish. He can eventually become the back-up with we get a real starter, but I hope we learned his present value last season after we failed to bring him back. Free Agents want nothing to do with us. All we have to offer is $$$ and everybody has $$$ this off seaon. That wont change in time for this season. So we're looking at Ish and players of his pedigree for the time being.

Lastly, the proposed trade to get Boston's #3 pick would have been a disaster for us. I'm very pleased that BC said 'no'.
Joegrane
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 27 2016, 01:14 PM) *

...
Last year, we dodged a bullet by NOT getting Deangelo Russell. He's an asshole, and a fucking moron. Living in LA I get more lakers info than anything else, and the city is about to storm their facility and drag that kid out of town. I'm sure ya'll heard what he did to his Nick last season? He secretly video recorded a conversation with him talking about cheating on his pop star girl friend, then uploaded it social media. HAHAHAHAHA.

Wow, I had heard some negative reports about him but did not realize he is that clueless.


There was no question for me when it came to Simmons vs. Ingram. The only viable argument for going with Ingram was "fit." But to me, he's got more bust potential. ...

I'm surprised to hear that. With 40% shooting and his length Ingram will at least provide 3 and D.

I love the 2 later picks...

I agree, they should provide good value in a few years.

TLC will contribute right away. Furking Korkmaz will need a year or 2 due to his contract and youth, but he's a legit shooter. And will come over and add offensive punch.
...
For our immediate PG needs, re-up Ish. He can eventually become the back-up with we get a real starter, but I hope we learned his present value last season after we failed to bring him back. Free Agents want nothing to do with us. All we have to offer is $$$ and everybody has $$$ this off seaon. That wont change in time for this season. So we're looking at Ish and players of his pedigree for the time being.

I agree except an aging veteran might not have another option and would sign to get another year in the NBA. They'll want a couple guys for veteran leadership and mentoring.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 27 2016, 01:14 PM) *
There was no question for me when it came to Simmons vs. Ingram. The only viable argument for going with Ingram was "fit." But to me, he's got more bust potential. Simmons is the real deal and is the clear cut finest player in this class. LSU was dysfunctional, and injury riddled. And Simmons shoots better than his reputation suggests.



hmmmm...who was the guy who posted this?

I'm all in for Ingram too. We need perimeter shooting more than anything. Ingram is a better scorer and a better defender than Simons, and he's younger. But, the x factor for me is that Simons showed a work effort that falls short of what it takes to be an NBA great. I also don't discount having learned under Coach K.

It's an easy choice for me, for these Sixers.


Just curious....lol

I don't think that Ingram will be a bust at all.....he will fill out quickly with NBA sport science being what it is. He has the frame for it and I think he will fill out just like Durant did. Simmons is likely the better fit with Brown as the HC. I don't think either is a bad pick, I would have taken Ingram but they know far more than I do. Embid has grown 2 more inches and if he stays healthy than the Sixers are going to be good very quickly....he is the real star in the making.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Eagle2720 @ Jun 26 2016, 10:25 PM) *
No worries, I hate how ESPN charges for it.



Hey here's the list tweeted without commentary:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23381...tween-2000-2014
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 27 2016, 12:14 PM) *
There was no question for me when it came to Simmons vs. Ingram. The only viable argument for going with Ingram was "fit." But to me, he's got more bust potential. Simmons is the real deal and is the clear cut finest player in this class. LSU was dysfunctional, and injury riddled. And Simmons shoots better than his reputation suggests.


FWIW, using ESPN's projection formula, Simmons actually has the higher bust potential.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16069613...-2016-nba-draft
Reality Fan
Nothing for nothing, D makes some good points on Simmons....and it doen't matter because he is now a Sixer so he is the default guy we all wanted......

They will be a better team soon
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 27 2016, 07:33 PM) *
Nothing for nothing, D makes some good points on Simmons....and it doen't matter because he is now a Sixer so he is the default guy we all wanted......

They will be a better team soon


True.

Kind of like Wentz, right? devil03.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 27 2016, 09:36 PM) *
True.

Kind of like Wentz, right? devil03.gif


Unlike Simmons, Wentz has was not expected to be a high first round pick since he was about 14.....so no....I hope Wentz turns out to be awesome.....I really do but no, I can't compare the 2......had the Eagles not traded up there is a good chance they might have gotten him at 8....that is not the case with Simmons....he was going 1 or at the worst,2 no matter who had the pick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 28 2016, 10:40 AM) *
Unlike Simmons, Wentz has was not expected to be a high first round pick since he was about 14.....so no....I hope Wentz turns out to be awesome.....I really do but no, I can't compare the 2......had the Eagles not traded up there is a good chance they might have gotten him at 8....that is not the case with Simmons....he was going 1 or at the worst,2 no matter who had the pick.

I really don't think there was a good chance. Maybe a slight chance, but almost everyone believed that someone would make play for him early. The Cowboys were apparently extremely interested.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 28 2016, 11:56 AM) *
I really don't think there was a good chance. Maybe a slight chance, but almost everyone believed that someone would make play for him early. The Cowboys were apparently extremely interested.


You are likely correct.....just that no one was going to trade up for him which was proven by Cleveland's admission of shock about how much the Eagles offered/they got for the pick.

Simmons, however, seems to be the consensus number 1 pick by everyone.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 27 2016, 10:03 PM) *
hmmmm...who was the guy who posted this?

I'm all in for Ingram too. We need perimeter shooting more than anything. Ingram is a better scorer and a better defender than Simons, and he's younger. But, the x factor for me is that Simons showed a work effort that falls short of what it takes to be an NBA great. I also don't discount having learned under Coach K.

It's an easy choice for me, for these Sixers.


Just curious....lol

I don't think that Ingram will be a bust at all.....he will fill out quickly with NBA sport science being what it is. He has the frame for it and I think he will fill out just like Durant did. Simmons is likely the better fit with Brown as the HC. I don't think either is a bad pick, I would have taken Ingram but they know far more than I do. Embid has grown 2 more inches and if he stays healthy than the Sixers are going to be good very quickly....he is the real star in the making.

I went back and forth early. I said as much, when I later said I was changing my mind daily. But as I did my fanboy level research, any questions disappeared. Ingram's ceiling isn't as high IMO.
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