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Zero
When I say "zero Numbers" I'm placing myself at the other end of the chart from Mikey Numbers, as in zero aptitude for numbers. With that qualification, here we go:

Overthecap is saying the Eagles will have a $11,270,225 cap shortfall next year. Obviously, they need to trim and just as obviously the prime suspect will be Sammy Sleeves. Cutting him will save $13 mil, trading him will save $17 mil. Adding in Mathews, Barbre and Smith as cuts ($4 mil, $1.5 mil and $1.8 mil) and the cap improves to about a positive $13 mil. Not great, but manageable.

I think it's fair to think that depending on performance this year, Peters will either be cut (add $2 mil, trade $9.2 mil) or renegotiated to add savings. I also think that it's likely that HR will be doing some other restructuring. The team isn't living in the cap penthouse like they were used to, but they're also not carrying a tin cup with a monkey on their shoulder.

Wentz needs to learn and grow. It's possible the "plan" allows for Daniel to be the starter at the beginning of 2017 if Wentz needs more time, but another "obvious" is that isn't ideal .. but may account for Daniel's elevated salary. I just don't see the crisis that some seem to think exists.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 20 2016, 07:12 AM) *
When I say "zero Numbers" I'm placing myself at the other end of the chart from Mikey Numbers, as in zero aptitude for numbers. With that qualification, here we go:

Overthecap is saying the Eagles will have a $11,270,225 cap shortfall next year. Obviously, they need to trim and just as obviously the prime suspect will be Sammy Sleeves. Cutting him will save $13 mil, trading him will save $17 mil. Adding in Mathews, Barbre and Smith as cuts ($4 mil, $1.5 mil and $1.8 mil) and the cap improves to about a positive $13 mil. Not great, but manageable.

I think it's fair to think that depending on performance this year, Peters will either be cut (add $2 mil, trade $9.2 mil) or renegotiated to add savings. I also think that it's likely that HR will be doing some other restructuring. The team isn't living in the cap penthouse like they were used to, but they're also not carrying a tin cup with a monkey on their shoulder.

Wentz needs to learn and grow. It's possible the "plan" allows for Daniel to be the starter at the beginning of 2017 if Wentz needs more time, but another "obvious" is that isn't ideal .. but may account for Daniel's elevated salary. I just don't see the crisis that some seem to think exists.


Howie, in an interview, as much as said that they may sacrifice short term success to gain long term stability by securing the 'core' players they deem necessary to sustain success. It wasn't just Chip, Big Red played the 'plug the holes' game for a few years too, so the roster is an amalgam of years of stupid moves. Hopefully they are right about who should be 'core' players, but I see a couple of years of roster and cap turmoil until they wash out all the mistakes made so far. It will only work if the choices made now are correct, this is where my faith in Howie is suspect, he always looks good in the spring until things go to Hell in the fall.
Zero
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 20 2016, 01:48 PM) *
Howie, in an interview, as much as said that they may sacrifice short term success to gain long term stability by securing the 'core' players they deem necessary to sustain success. It wasn't just Chip, Big Red played the 'plug the holes' game for a few years too, so the roster is an amalgam of years of stupid moves. Hopefully they are right about who should be 'core' players, but I see a couple of years of roster and cap turmoil until they wash out all the mistakes made so far. It will only work if the choices made now are correct, this is where my faith in Howie is suspect, he always looks good in the spring until things go to Hell in the fall.

I realize HR said that and after the $280 mil shopping spree I wouldn't expect anything else. But looking at those numbers seems to say the team will be able to sign Logan, rookies and one or two FAs. I also agree that he is suspect until he proves otherwise.
Joegrane
"Overthecap is saying the Eagles will have a $11,270,225 cap shortfall next year. "

They don't list the free agents from the previous year--a weakness in their website's design.

So that does not include B Logan.

Will they try to extend J Matthews?




Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 20 2016, 07:12 AM) *
When I say "zero Numbers" I'm placing myself at the other end of the chart from Mikey Numbers, as in zero aptitude for numbers. With that qualification, here we go:

Overthecap is saying the Eagles will have a $11,270,225 cap shortfall next year. Obviously, they need to trim and just as obviously the prime suspect will be Sammy Sleeves. Cutting him will save $13 mil, trading him will save $17 mil. Adding in Mathews, Barbre and Smith as cuts ($4 mil, $1.5 mil and $1.8 mil) and the cap improves to about a positive $13 mil. Not great, but manageable.

I think it's fair to think that depending on performance this year, Peters will either be cut (add $2 mil, trade $9.2 mil) or renegotiated to add savings. I also think that it's likely that HR will be doing some other restructuring. The team isn't living in the cap penthouse like they were used to, but they're also not carrying a tin cup with a monkey on their shoulder.

Wentz needs to learn and grow. It's possible the "plan" allows for Daniel to be the starter at the beginning of 2017 if Wentz needs more time, but another "obvious" is that isn't ideal .. but may account for Daniel's elevated salary. I just don't see the crisis that some seem to think exists.


Not to prick your numbers ballon but right now there are 21 guys who will likely make this team that will be FAs next year....their total 2016 salary totals 22 million.....that is roughly 40% of their roster....add that to the 11 million they are over the cap.

And those are only those likely to make the 53 man roster this year.

Player Current
Ed Reynolds $480,000.00
Randall Evans $475,000.00
Jaylen Watkins $555,000.00
Kenjon Barner $555,000.00
Cody Parkey $510,000.00
Trey Burton $512,500.00
Chris Maragos $1,350,000.00
Mike Martin $760,000.00
Donnie Jones $1,833,333.00
Bennie Logan $758,108.00
Najee Goode $775,000.00
Matt Tobin $1,671,000.00
Nolan Carroll $2,300,000.00
Dennis Kelly $790,000.00
Rueben Randle $1,025,000.00
Stefen Wisniewski $1,510,000.00
Chris Givens $840,000.00
Darren Sproles $3,500,000.00
Jon Dorenbos $1,062,500.00
Bryan Braman $897,500.00
Wendell Smallwood $646,145.00

Even if Braman does not make the team that is a ton of money for guys that will all need to be signed or replaced.

Side note...I remember you busting my balls about Kelly....what you failed to realize was that although he was extened through 2017 his contract was not included in the 2017 salary cap calculations so we were both wrong so either way his 800k needs to be accounted for.

As I said before.....get out the scalpel...there is going to be a lot of cutting...
Joegrane
That is really depressing.

This team is really a one n done. They'll have to rebuild after this year.

Other GMs will know that the Eagles have to trade SamB in order to make more cap space. Releasing him clears just 13mil of the 22mil cap hit. I assume a trade would clear much more of the 22mil. How are they going to get anything for him?

Will there be "a lot of cutting" or just a few of the big price tags with minimal Dead Money?

Peters 9mil savings, but do they have his replacement on the roster?
Barwin 8mil savings, but they'll have to sign someone for DE depth.
McKelvin and Huff 4mil combined savings
Probably one of the veteran O Lineman 1.2mil savings

Other notables won't be resigned.
Sproles 3.5mil
A veteran CB such as Carroll 3mil

Will B Logan go from .7mil to 3mil or more? I expect him to have a big year.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 20 2016, 11:12 PM) *
Not to prick your numbers ballon but right now there are 21 guys who will likely make this team that will be FAs next year....their total 2016 salary totals 22 million.....that is roughly 40% of their roster....add that to the 11 million they are over the cap.
....
As I said before.....get out the scalpel...there is going to be a lot of cutting...

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 21 2016, 12:25 AM) *
That is really depressing.

This team is really a one n done. They'll have to rebuild after this year.

Other GMs will know that the Eagles have to trade SamB in order to make more cap space. Releasing him clears just 13mil of the 22mil cap hit. I assume a trade would clear much more of the 22mil. How are they going to get anything for him?

Will there be "a lot of cutting" or just a few of the big price tags with minimal Dead Money?

Peters 9mil savings, but do they have his replacement on the roster?
Barwin 8mil savings, but they'll have to sign someone for DE depth.
McKelvin and Huff 4mil combined savings
Probably one of the veteran O Lineman 1.2mil savings

Other notables won't be resigned.
Sproles 3.5mil
A veteran CB such as Carroll 3mil

Will B Logan go from .7mil to 3mil or more? I expect him to have a big year.


Not to add to your depression but next year the teams needing a QB will be further diminished
They may be as follows:
1. The Browns....but the likelihood of them paying Bradford are slim and none...
2. The Bills....maybe
3. Broncos...that ship sailed
4. The Rams....that ship has also sailed
5. The Jets....but they don't like paying top dollar

Everyone else has their QB....the Dolphins might be an outlier but pretty doubtful

That means there are only 3 teams that might bite...3!

All this talk about getting great picks for Bradford and the brilliance of the strategy really are naive. The number of teams looking for a QB will be small and of those teams they all seem hesitant to make the financial commitment to take on Bradford AND surrender picks, good picks, for the honor of doing so. So you have a tiny number of teams looking for a QB in which they will also have the draft. It is very scary and shockingly shortsighted. They must be thinking something very different because if a simple guy like me can look at the teams, their current starter and their historical staffing philosophies they surely can do the same.

To amke a trade you need a partner and there will not be much to choose from. They might have better luck trading Barwin or Peters.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 20 2016, 11:12 PM) *
Not to prick your numbers ballon but right now there are 21 guys who will likely make this team that will be FAs next year....their total 2016 salary totals 22 million.....that is roughly 40% of their roster....add that to the 11 million they are over the cap.

And those are only those likely to make the 53 man roster this year.

Player Current
Ed Reynolds $480,000.00
Randall Evans $475,000.00
Jaylen Watkins $555,000.00
Kenjon Barner $555,000.00
Cody Parkey $510,000.00
Trey Burton $512,500.00
Chris Maragos $1,350,000.00
Mike Martin $760,000.00
Donnie Jones $1,833,333.00
Bennie Logan $758,108.00
Najee Goode $775,000.00
Matt Tobin $1,671,000.00
Nolan Carroll $2,300,000.00
Dennis Kelly $790,000.00
Rueben Randle $1,025,000.00
Stefen Wisniewski $1,510,000.00
Chris Givens $840,000.00
Darren Sproles $3,500,000.00
Jon Dorenbos $1,062,500.00
Bryan Braman $897,500.00
Wendell Smallwood $646,145.00

Even if Braman does not make the team that is a ton of money for guys that will all need to be signed or replaced.

Side note...I remember you busting my balls about Kelly....what you failed to realize was that although he was extened through 2017 his contract was not included in the 2017 salary cap calculations so we were both wrong so either way his 800k needs to be accounted for.

As I said before.....get out the scalpel...there is going to be a lot of cutting...

Honestly, RF sometimes I think you argue just to argue.

First, Smallwood has a four year deal as far as I know. Next, and most importantly, most of those guys are either borderline players, ST guys or low salary players .. forever. It's not that I'm disagreeing that there will need to be roster and cap diligence, but as I stated in my opener, it's not the crisis you're making it out to be. I don't argue that there will necessarily be changes because of the cap stress, but it won't be a disaster that will cripple the team. I'm not sure why you seem to be portraying it that way.

The players in red are the one's who should be potential keepers, and not all of them. Performance and need dependent on other players will determine priority. They'll probably lose a couple we'd like to see stay and those guys they'll probably try to replace with younger players, especially the ST stalwarts. It's not that I'm happy about that but I'm not depressed either.

I think we all agree that drafting right is the key .. as it is to any team. They've addressed that with the hiring of Douglas and Weidle, hopefully it's a good address. smile.gif They're going to be cap challenged more than they have been since Lurie bought the team and we're not used to that. It doesn't mean they're doomed or that we all need to grab our blankies and sit in the corner muttering "oh, Zeke".
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 21 2016, 06:55 AM) *
Honestly, RF sometimes I think you argue just to argue.

First, Smallwood has a four year deal as far as I know. Next, and most importantly, most of those guys are either borderline players, ST guys or low salary players .. forever. It's not that I'm disagreeing that there will need to be roster and cap diligence, but as I stated in my opener, it's not the crisis you're making it out to be. I don't argue that there will necessarily be changes because of the cap stress, but it won't be a disaster that will cripple the team. I'm not sure why you seem to be portraying it that way.

The players in red are the one's who should be potential keepers, and not all of them. Performance and need dependent on other players will determine priority. They'll probably lose a couple we'd like to see stay and those guys they'll probably try to replace with younger players, especially the ST stalwarts. It's not that I'm happy about that but I'm not depressed either.

I think we all agree that drafting right is the key .. as it is to any team. They've addressed that with the hiring of Douglas and Weidle, hopefully it's a good address. smile.gif They're going to be cap challenged more than they have been since Lurie bought the team and we're not used to that. It doesn't mean they're doomed or that we all need to grab our blankies and sit in the corner muttering "oh, Zeke".


And sometimes I think you intentionally try to extend the debate....

but I will keep this simple....

one question?

Do ST, borderline or low salary players come free or not count against the cap next year? I agree most are easily replaced....but their replacements will get paid......and the rookie minimum is 465k.....

You cannot replace 50% of your team with rookies....

Smallwood did sign a new contract not recorded on over the cap so you can add another 600K to the amount we are over the cap next year. Money does not just disappear. We are frightfully thin at OL.....no one to replace Johnson at RT when he moves to LT. So we will have to find a real Guard which means paying Wis (if he is good) more next year or having rookies at 2 spots on the O line.....do you feel good at Howie finding 1 much less 2 rookie O linemen?

We will need 2 WRs......see above.

We really need for a few teams to have their QBs retire and Sammy to play lights out......We need that first round pick next year......though we may not be able to afford it.....lol
Joegrane
We'll see how the various QBs perform around the league this year. There are other possibilities where there are aging veterans or possible other issues:

NO: check out the cap hit for D Brees, however they could be a team who will draft a QB high in round 1 and so will only need a veteran placeholder QB.

ChipK/SF: We know he likes Sam somewhat but they are rebuilding and won't want to commit long term to Sam. They'll also be looking for a QB high in round 1.

The contract #s for Barwin and Peters are funny $. Again we'll see how well they perform this year. I like Barwin's chances better than Peters'.

Maybe JasonP would renegotiate a contract as an above average right OT with some performance/injury incentives. That along with drafting the future Rt OT in round 2 would be ideal for the Eagles. They might be able to cut a veteran backup OT. I don't know if that would be enough cap help for the Birds.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 21 2016, 12:48 AM) *
Not to add to your depression but next year the teams needing a QB will be further diminished
They may be as follows:
1. The Browns....but the likelihood of them paying Bradford are slim and none...
2. The Bills....maybe
3. Broncos...that ship sailed
4. The Rams....that ship has also sailed
5. The Jets....but they don't like paying top dollar

Everyone else has their QB....the Dolphins might be an outlier but pretty doubtful

That means there are only 3 teams that might bite...3!

All this talk about getting great picks for Bradford and the brilliance of the strategy really are naive. The number of teams looking for a QB will be small and of those teams they all seem hesitant to make the financial commitment to take on Bradford AND surrender picks, good picks, for the honor of doing so. So you have a tiny number of teams looking for a QB in which they will also have the draft. It is very scary and shockingly shortsighted. They must be thinking something very different because if a simple guy like me can look at the teams, their current starter and their historical staffing philosophies they surely can do the same.

To amke a trade you need a partner and there will not be much to choose from. They might have better luck trading Barwin or Peters.

Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 21 2016, 11:53 AM) *
And sometimes I think you intentionally try to extend the debate....

but I will keep this simple....

one question?

Do ST, borderline or low salary players come free or not count against the cap next year? I agree most are easily replaced....but their replacements will get paid......and the rookie minimum is 465k.....

You cannot replace 50% of your team with rookies....

Smallwood did sign a new contract not recorded on over the cap so you can add another 600K to the amount we are over the cap next year. Money does not just disappear. We are frightfully thin at OL.....no one to replace Johnson at RT when he moves to LT. So we will have to find a real Guard which means paying Wis (if he is good) more next year or having rookies at 2 spots on the O line.....do you feel good at Howie finding 1 much less 2 rookie O linemen?

We will need 2 WRs......see above.

We really need for a few teams to have their QBs retire and Sammy to play lights out......We need that first round pick next year......though we may not be able to afford it.....lol

Wait, do you want to extend the debate or talk to the bar maid?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 21 2016, 04:08 PM) *
Wait, do you want to extend the debate or talk to the bar maid?


We should give that bar maid the link to this site.

It was good seeing RF stumble on his counter points!!


Joegrane
There is no debate. Well said, RF.

"ST, borderline or low salary players... most are easily replaced....but their replacements will get paid......and the rookie minimum is 465k..... You cannot replace 50% of your team with rookies...."

The best example of what will happen is Sproles @3.5mil vs Smallwood @ .5mil. Smallwood will likely assume Sproles' responsibilities as the 3rd down back. I assume Agholor or someone else will be the punt returner.

Hopefully the Eagles drafted well to fill the void left by Sproles, but it is not looking likely that the replacements will have the game-changing impact of Sproles.

I'm not optimistic that any of the following replacements will make the Eagles a better team:

Marcus Smith + more snaps for V Curry vs C. Barwin

L Johnson vs J Peters @ L OT

D Kelly or rookie 2nd round pick vs L Johnson @ Rt OT

Two of the young CBs vs L McKelvin and N Carroll


QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 21 2016, 05:08 PM) *
Wait, do you want to extend the debate or talk to the bar maid?

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 21 2016, 09:04 PM) *
We should give that bar maid the link to this site.

It was good seeing RF stumble on his counter points!!


I hope you did not drive home...if you were that drunk....
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jun 21 2016, 09:28 PM) *
There is no debate.

Really? Before seeing any of these guys play in new systems with new coaches you guys are declaring the future sealed? Before seeing if any of the new and second year players perform, there is no debate? Wow .. good job. You guys should be politicians.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 21 2016, 11:27 PM) *
I hope you did not drive home...if you were that drunk....

Shoulda taken pictures. She's becoming a celebrity. biggrin.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 22 2016, 05:54 AM) *
Really? Before seeing any of these guys play in new systems with new coaches you guys are declaring the future sealed? Before seeing if any of the new and second year players perform, there is no debate? Wow .. good job. You guys should be politicians.



Lets look at it from another angle.....what is the history of success for a large number of rookies and 2nd year players? I get you have a guy here or a guy there that excels early...Hicks is a great example.....but counting on 6-8? Even Hicks got hurt....and even if you can find that kind of talent and it performs so far above expectation....your margin for injury is razor thin.....

It is simply not realistic......possible?...of course....probable? ummm...no
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 21 2016, 10:27 PM) *
I hope you did not drive home...if you were that drunk....



She said Bradford sucks and you were in retreat mode.

Ali never backpedaled as much!!

If I only had popcorn with some butter....................

Shame Z had an early curfew and couldn't enjoy the situation.

Judging by you two's back and forth I think he would have really enjoyed it. duel.gif
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2016, 11:10 PM) *
She said Bradford sucks and you were in retreat mode.

Ali never backpedaled as much!!

If I only had popcorn with some butter....................

Shame Z had an early curfew and couldn't enjoy the situation.

Judging by you two's back and forth I think he would have really enjoyed it. duel.gif

All I saw in this thread was his back laugh.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2016, 11:10 PM) *
She said Bradford sucks and you were in retreat mode.

Ali never backpedaled as much!!

If I only had popcorn with some butter....................

Shame Z had an early curfew and couldn't enjoy the situation.

Judging by you two's back and forth I think he would have really enjoyed it. duel.gif


She wanted a shot at the title.......but she did not have me backpedaling.....she was annoying though...just can't bring myself to do North Philly girls...it is the voice...lolol
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 23 2016, 06:10 AM) *
All I saw in this thread was his back laugh.gif


ok...that sounded very gay.....not that there is anything wrong with being gay....just saying.. biggrin.gif
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