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Joegrane
"Having a lot of assets at the most important position in the nfl is a good strategic move for now and it can only benefit us. Because in the nfl it is the one position you can't just go get. And so when you have an opportunity you have to take your shot and you've gotta be bold."

I thought the move up was part of Howie's psychosis, especially related to Chip.

Maybe it was Lurie's deal.

Joegrane
There are additional quotes from Lurie's interview here.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/5/...dford-nfl-draft

QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 31 2016, 05:38 PM) *
"Having a lot of assets at the most important position in the nfl is a good strategic move for now and it can only benefit us. Because in the nfl it is the one position you can't just go get. And so when you have an opportunity you have to take your shot and you've gotta be bold."

I thought the move up was part of Howie's psychosis, especially related to Chip.

Maybe it was Lurie's deal.
nephillymike
I'm Ok with the move up for the Kid and bringing Sam back in a bid against yourself move.

Can't see the Daniels move for 12M guaranteed.

Makes no financial sense.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 1 2016, 11:19 PM) *
I'm Ok with the move up for the Kid and bringing Sam back in a bid against yourself move.

Can't see the Daniels move for 12M guaranteed.

Makes no financial sense.

I don't completely understand the preoccupation with money.

Start here: take away the money and how do you feel about having Daniel as the backup for three years?
Joegrane
He must be very helpful in teaching the young guys the system.

This team is not playoff caliber now and probably won't be next year with a new starting QB. He's a veteran backup so I'm fine with Daniel. Of course I might have different thoughts if he lays an egg when he has to play this year.

QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2016, 07:31 AM) *
I don't completely understand the preoccupation with money.

Start here: take away the money and how do you feel about having Daniel as the backup for three years?

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2016, 07:31 AM) *
I don't completely understand the preoccupation with money.

Start here: take away the money and how do you feel about having Daniel as the backup for three years?


It is called the salary cap....when you have finite resources it is suspect when you waste them on a backup QB who no one else wanted. Last year the press in KC was pointing to Daniels as a guy to cut to free up cap space. There was no one else to sign Daniels to even half the money they gave him. When you have depth issues at LB and RB and are trying to extend your star to a mega contract there are better ways to allocate your cap dollars than a midget QB who will never be more than a backup much less give him a record contract for a backup QB.
Zero
If they cut him next year he costs them $1 million. If they keep him he costs them $8 mil. Wentz will cost them just over $6 mil. Smith will cost KC almost $17 mil, Manning will cost almost $20 mil, Palmer almost $20 mil., etc. They think they can win and will still likely be below contending teams in QB money.

They were handicapped this year anyway. They knew they wanted Daniel to be a mentor/tutor and they felt they had to pay him to do that. People pay more for things they perceive have greater value and they thought Daniel gives them value in helping to develop Wentz while being capable of spot starting in the event of an injury to Bradford.
Phits
I'm with you Z. The preoccupation with $$ seems to be a fan issue. It's like fantasy "cap" football to some. Teams find a way to make it work if they need to.

QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2016, 09:22 PM) *
If they cut him next year he costs them $1 million. If they keep him he costs them $8 mil. Wentz will cost them just over $6 mil. Smith will cost KC almost $17 mil, Manning will cost almost $20 mil, Palmer almost $20 mil., etc. They think they can win and will still likely be below contending teams in QB money.

They were handicapped this year anyway. They knew they wanted Daniel to be a mentor/tutor and they felt they had to pay him to do that. People pay more for things they perceive have greater value and they thought Daniel gives them value in helping to develop Wentz while being capable of spot starting in the event of an injury to Bradford.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 2 2016, 09:22 PM) *
If they cut him next year he costs them $1 million. If they keep him he costs them $8 mil. Wentz will cost them just over $6 mil. Smith will cost KC almost $17 mil, Manning will cost almost $20 mil, Palmer almost $20 mil., etc. They think they can win and will still likely be below contending teams in QB money.

They were handicapped this year anyway. They knew they wanted Daniel to be a mentor/tutor and they felt they had to pay him to do that. People pay more for things they perceive have greater value and they thought Daniel gives them value in helping to develop Wentz while being capable of spot starting in the event of an injury to Bradford.


Ok...lets play your numbers game....

Smith is a great example....he will get 17 million.....and they chose not to sign his backup to idiot money....his new backup? $650 K
Eli is a ridiculous example...well they all are because they are all franchise guys and make my point for me but Manning will get 23 million (2 SB wins will do that for you) and his backup? $780 K
Palmer? 17.8 (not 20) and his backup is one of the higher paid backups.....2.5.

None of them are about to sign a D lineman to a mega contract (although the Giants did overpay for Olivier)

They are currently terrible at reading the market for guys they sign which explains why agents love them. Remember your free spending joy when Hicks gets hurt and there is no one to replace him.

By the way...plenty of national pundits have said the same thing...it is a waste of money to pay Daniels that much...there was not a lot of options for him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 2 2016, 08:57 PM) *
Ok...lets play your numbers game....

Smith is a great example....he will get 17 million.....and they chose not to sign his backup to idiot money....his new backup? $650 K
Eli is a ridiculous example...well they all are because they are all franchise guys and make my point for me but Manning will get 23 million (2 SB wins will do that for you) and his backup? $780 K
Palmer? 17.8 (not 20) and his backup is one of the higher paid backups.....2.5.

None of them are about to sign a D lineman to a mega contract (although the Giants did overpay for Olivier)

They are currently terrible at reading the market for guys they sign which explains why agents love them. Remember your free spending joy when Hicks gets hurt and there is no one to replace him.

By the way...plenty of national pundits have said the same thing...it is a waste of money to pay Daniels that much...there was not a lot of options for him.


I'm hating myself for it, but RF is right.

He may not agree where I put the money I save from Daniels, in a nice WR, but that's what I would have done. If they are in love with the current group of WR's as others around here are, I could easily go LB or OL, or even save it for Cox and pay him more this year to lessen his hit in future years on the allocation of the new deal.

Zero
You're both looking at this through a one year window, 2016. This year is a foundation year, fixing what Kelly did and preparing for the Wentz era.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 3 2016, 05:01 AM) *
You're both looking at this through a one year window, 2016. This year is a foundation year, fixing what Kelly did and preparing for the Wentz era.


With Pedey, DiFlipppo and Reich all being ex QB's, you don't need an on field QB player coach for the system.

It's over kill.

Even if you decide to go that route, you don't pay him what they did. No need to.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 3 2016, 06:29 AM) *
With Pedey, DiFlipppo and Reich all being ex QB's, you don't need an on field QB player coach for the system.

It's over kill.

Even if you decide to go that route, you don't pay him what they did. No need to.

How do you know what was needed to sign him? I think it's reasonable to give them some slack on this one. I remember all the grief they got for Pederson when McNabb was drafted and I remember how it benefited McNabb.

Year two Daniel dead money is $7 mil, year three dead money is $1 mil, essentially making this a two-year deal. This year he's primarily protection for Bradford injury followed by Wentz mentor. Next year he provides the support a second year QB will benefit from. In '18 they can cut him for the rookie they draft next year. If all this makes Wentz the stud franchise QB we all hope he will be, is the cap hit this year all that important?

Down with Axis hysteria! police.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 3 2016, 09:16 AM) *
How do you know what was needed to sign him? I think it's reasonable to give them some slack on this one. I remember all the grief they got for Pederson when McNabb was drafted and I remember how it benefited McNabb.

Year two Daniel dead money is $7 mil, year three dead money is $1 mil, essentially making this a two-year deal. This year he's primarily protection for Bradford injury followed by Wentz mentor. Next year he provides the support a second year QB will benefit from. In '18 they can cut him for the rookie they draft next year. If all this makes Wentz the stud franchise QB we all hope he will be, is the cap hit this year all that important?

Down with Axis hysteria! police.gif


How do we know? Because no other team in the league signs their "backup" for anything close. The only backup that will be close is for 1 or 2 teams that have no settled starter like Cleveland who was not even sniffing Daniels. In fact, no one was including the team he played for the last 3 years. I would get it if there was young cheap depth at LB who had some real upside, but even then, you have 3 former QBs as coaches, it simply is a waste of money that could bolster your team elsewhere. Using Pederson as an example is a mistake....it is hard to prove he helped McNabb unless you mean the fans begging for McNabb to play because pederson was so godawful is helping McNabb forget he was booed on draft day. Pederson did sign a 3 year 4.6 million dollar contract that paid him 3 million for his 18 months of hell here so I concede that in today's dollars he was overpaid as well but there was no starter on that team, a radically different situation than you have today.

I understand your point that money means nothing to you but I look at it like asset allocation....you need to allot it wisely.
Zero
Hahaha! I forgot that Daniel had no say in what it took to get him to move.

A logical assumption is one thing, and it's also one thing that is frequently incorrect. I agree that it's a logical assumption that Daniel was overpaid, I'm not arguing that point only saying that sometimes we overpay for something that proves to be a valuable acquisition. I don't get hammering away on it if he does help the team have a good year this year and help Wentz evolve next year. That was the point of my question that I don't remember you or anyone else answering.
QUOTE
Start here: take away the money and how do you feel about having Daniel as the backup for three years?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 3 2016, 03:10 PM) *
Hahaha! I forgot that Daniel had no say in what it took to get him to move.

A logical assumption is one thing, and it's also one thing that is frequently incorrect. I agree that it's a logical assumption that Daniel was overpaid, I'm not arguing that point only saying that sometimes we overpay for something that proves to be a valuable acquisition. I don't get hammering away on it if he does help the team have a good year this year and help Wentz evolve next year. That was the point of my question that I don't remember you or anyone else answering.


He only has a say if he gets offers......KC was rumored to want him back "at the right price" and they had been getting beat up for what they were paying him already. There was another team rumored to be interested in him but never identified which means there likely was no other team and it was his agent getting some help from one reporter.(only one reporter mentioned any interest) Regardless, if you are worried about missing out on a high priced backup QB with 2 former NFL QBs coaching your team you are in real trouble. A backup QB, particularly one who has thrown under 80 passes in 6 years, is not a valuable asset. I guess we will agree to disagree.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 3 2016, 05:18 PM) *
He only has a say if he gets offers......KC was rumored to want him back "at the right price" and they had been getting beat up for what they were paying him already. There was another team rumored to be interested in him but never identified which means there likely was no other team and it was his agent getting some help from one reporter.(only one reporter mentioned any interest) Regardless, if you are worried about missing out on a high priced backup QB with 2 former NFL QBs coaching your team you are in real trouble. A backup QB, particularly one who has thrown under 80 passes in 6 years, is not a valuable asset. I guess we will agree to disagree.

Yeah, we can agree ... but the base point is that the team thought it important to bring in Daniel to help the kid and as insurance. For these two years the money isn't the most important thing although it's yet to be seen if the money is well spent.
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