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Zero
Lots has been said about his size, character, intelligence, work ethic and athleticism. He can read defenses and throw the ball accurately. He can run and make good decisions. Does this part concern you or do you think coaching can fix it?
QUOTE
Wentz dropped from completing 70.1 percent of his passes from a clean pocket, to 42.6 percent when pressured. All quarterbacks suffer a drop, but that is bigger than most, and could be a big issue early in his NFL career as he adjusts to facing a pro-level pass rush.

Dreagon
QUOTE (Zero @ May 29 2016, 05:30 AM) *
Lots has been said about his size, character, intelligence, work ethic and athleticism. He can read defenses and throw the ball accurately. He can run and make good decisions. Does this part concern you or do you think coaching can fix it?



Well, there a lot of factors that would have to be taken into account. First of all, all pressures aren't equal. Did his offensive line tend to allow pressures a certain way, or did they just collapse after a given couple of seconds. And how did they allow that pressure to happen. We learned that the hard way with Romo. He's elusive as hell when it comes to pressure from the outside, but pressure up the middle was his achilles heel. Travis Frederick was the best thing that ever happened to him. So there is that to consider.

Also, it simply reinforces he's a developmental QB and shouldn't just be thrown to the wolves like you would an Andrew Luck. Work with him on his timetable and get the best out of him.
Birdman420
I remember the Giants figuring out Vick's weakness to the Zero blitz. Remember what andy did to counter it? Nothing. This is the NFL and the kid will be tested with all sorts of blitz's, Our O-Line isn't great but I hope that the next couple of drafts improve that along with our WR's.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ May 29 2016, 11:13 AM) *
I remember the Giants figuring out Vick's weakness to the Zero blitz. Remember what andy did to counter it? Nothing. This is the NFL and the kid will be tested with all sorts of blitz's, Our O-Line isn't great but I hope that the next couple of drafts improve that along with our WR's.


And I think a lot of it has to do with scouting yourselves. Figure out the kid's weakness BEFORE the opponent does and then work with that.
Joegrane
Good points. Maybe that is another reason they invested resources on the O Line this year in the draft and FA.

QUOTE (Dreagon @ May 29 2016, 11:07 AM) *
Well, there a lot of factors that would have to be taken into account. First of all, all pressures aren't equal. Did his offensive line tend to allow pressures a certain way, or did they just collapse after a given couple of seconds. And how did they allow that pressure to happen. We learned that the hard way with Romo. He's elusive as hell when it comes to pressure from the outside, but pressure up the middle was his achilles heel. Travis Frederick was the best thing that ever happened to him. So there is that to consider.

Also, it simply reinforces he's a developmental QB and shouldn't just be thrown to the wolves like you would an Andrew Luck. Work with him on his timetable and get the best out of him.

nephillymike
So our $22M guaranteed six year veteran has a career 81.0 passer rating and the kid has 80.6 when pressured?


Nope.

No concern from NE Philly.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 29 2016, 11:45 PM) *
So our $22M guaranteed six year veteran has a career 81.0 passer rating and the kid has 80.6 when pressured?

Nope.

No concern from NE Philly.

Can't tell if this is sarcasm.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 30 2016, 06:43 AM) *
Can't tell if this is sarcasm.


Sadly it is likely not.....he has been known to see a comparison between the NFL and tier 2 college football...lol
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ May 29 2016, 11:13 AM) *
I remember the Giants figuring out Vick's weakness to the Zero blitz. Remember what andy did to counter it? Nothing.

You mean when we were down 31-10 with 9 minutes left and we won the game? Yeah...that Andy. What a bozo. No ability to adjust in game.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 30 2016, 02:32 PM) *
You mean when we were down 31-10 with 9 minutes left and we won the game? Yeah...that Andy. What a bozo. No ability to adjust in game.

Come on 'Nabby. You can't give AR the credit for the comeback. That was vintage Vick and the NYG melting down. Even the DJax punt return, for the winning score, was all about athletic ability.

You don't script those types of comebacks.

nephillymike
That stretch by Vick was the best QB play I remember from an Eagles QB.


Sure Foles had better stats that one year, but as far as taking games over, Vick was awesome during that stretch.

Snow Storm

Wussification of America.

Joe Webb

Amazing how far he fell.
nephillymike
yeah a little bit of sarcasm but part truth.

I realize the leagues are different, as are the passer ratings, although that is an NFL passer rating they list in the stats.

The truth part of it is my opinion of Bradford.

I suspect, just like Mariota and Winston did last year, that most upper tier rookie QB's numbers will approximate or better Sam's.

I hope he raises his game as we need it.

Just not confident he will.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 30 2016, 07:01 PM) *
yeah a little bit of sarcasm but part truth.

I realize the leagues are different, as are the passer ratings, although that is an NFL passer rating they list in the stats.

The truth part of it is my opinion of Bradford.

I suspect, just like Mariota and Winston did last year, that most upper tier rookie QB's numbers will approximate or better Sam's.

I hope he raises his game as we need it.

Just not confident he will.


I am just curious how you take that stance but completely disregard who he played with in St. Louis.

Rams
2010 29th
2011 28th
2012 26th
2013 now here is where it gets good....Bradford has his best stretch with the Rams and has a 90 rating (still with dreck at WR) and what is the O line ranked? 13th.

Bradford had the Eagles line this year and after he clearly got his legs under him he had one week with a rating under 90 in the last 9 games. (even with your sub par WRs)

I know you see these things as excuses but they are simple facts.....he played for a team with a terrible coaching situation, a terrible O line and terrible WRs and yet you expected miracles. I suppose he was the reason the WRs never went on to play well for any other team and the O line sucked.

It is amazing how little folks dig in to something they know nothing about before passing judgement.

By the way
Mariote 2015
3-9-0 230/370 62.2 2818 yds 19/10 Long 61 7.6 7.4 12.3 234.8 91.5
O line 29th TE Delaney Walker (Pro Bowl)
Winston
6-10-0 312/535 58.3 4042 yds 22/15 Long 68 7.6 7.1 13.0 252.6 84.2
O line 23rd WR Mike Evans 1200 yds
Bradford
7-9-0 354/590 60.0 3512 18/15 Long 49 6.0 5.4 9.9 219.5 76.5
O line 29th WR Danny Amendola 689 yds.

Go figure....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 30 2016, 08:02 PM) *
I am just curious how you take that stance but completely disregard who he played with in St. Louis.

Rams
2010 29th
2011 28th
2012 26th
2013 now here is where it gets good....Bradford has his best stretch with the Rams and has a 90 rating (still with dreck at WR) and what is the O line ranked? 13th.

Bradford had the Eagles line this year and after he clearly got his legs under him he had one week with a rating under 90 in the last 9 games. (even with your sub par WRs)

I know you see these things as excuses but they are simple facts.....he played for a team with a terrible coaching situation, a terrible O line and terrible WRs and yet you expected miracles. I suppose he was the reason the WRs never went on to play well for any other team and the O line sucked.

It is amazing how little folks dig in to something they know nothing about before passing judgement.

By the way
Mariote 2015
3-9-0 230/370 62.2 2818 yds 19/10 Long 61 7.6 7.4 12.3 234.8 91.5
O line 29th WR Delaney Walker (Pro Bowl)
Winston
6-10-0 312/535 58.3 4042 yds 22/15 Long 68 7.6 7.1 13.0 252.6 84.2
O line 23rd WR Mike Evans 1200 yds
Bradford
7-9-0 354/590 60.0 3512 18/15 Long 49 6.0 5.4 9.9 219.5 76.5
O line 29th WR Danny Amendola 689 yds.

Go figure....



Is any of Bradford's career passer rating, W-L record and lack of playoff appearances on HIM?

Any of it?

Will any of it be on him this year when he throws to yet another shitty group of WR's?

Any of it?

Last year he had the 12th best OL. That should count for something right? He finished 25th in passer rating.

And Brady had like the 29th or 30th best OL last year.

Last year Sam was 25th in passer rating and 33rd in QBR. 33!

Sanchez was 18th/16th the year before and Foles was 1st/4th the year before that.

Same QB friendly offense, same shitty defense.

Will you promise that THIS year is the year that the excuses stop for this guy?

They are all still there, new coach, new OC, sub par WR's, contract uneasiness, just waiting to be trotted out........

Joegrane
The WRs were running around like keystone cops in the first half of last year! Sam's #s from the 2nd half are a better gauge.

Foles had DJax, Shady and a great O Line for what they were doing. Notice what Foles did when he went to St Louis.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 30 2016, 10:43 PM) *
...

Last year he had the 12th best OL. That should count for something right? He finished 25th in passer rating.

And Brady had like the 29th or 30th best OL last year.

Last year Sam was 25th in passer rating and 33rd in QBR. 33!

Sanchez was 18th/16th the year before and Foles was 1st/4th the year before that.

Same QB friendly offense, same shitty defense.

Will you promise that THIS year is the year that the excuses stop for this guy?

They are all still there, new coach, new OC, sub par WR's, contract uneasiness, just waiting to be trotted out........

Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 30 2016, 10:43 PM) *
They are all still there, new coach, new OC, sub par WR's, contract uneasiness, just waiting to be trotted out........

I'm not a Bradford apologist, but the combination of all these things with his incessant injuries could be a reason for sub par performances. I hope he stays healthy this year not only to prove his ability one way or the other, but so the Eagles can get some return on that second rounder the Chipster so graciously spent on him.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 30 2016, 10:43 PM) *
Is any of Bradford's career passer rating, W-L record and lack of playoff appearances on HIM?

Any of it?

Will any of it be on him this year when he throws to yet another shitty group of WR's?

Any of it?

Last year he had the 12th best OL. That should count for something right? He finished 25th in passer rating.

And Brady had like the 29th or 30th best OL last year.

Last year Sam was 25th in passer rating and 33rd in QBR. 33!

Sanchez was 18th/16th the year before and Foles was 1st/4th the year before that.

Same QB friendly offense, same shitty defense.

Will you promise that THIS year is the year that the excuses stop for this guy?

They are all still there, new coach, new OC, sub par WR's, contract uneasiness, just waiting to be trotted out........


Again...you discount 2 things

Did he not just come back from a 2nd consecutive ACL tear? Did he not put up very good Rating numbers almost everu week except for 1 game?

Now for the stats you omit when mentioning Sanchez and Foles...and you should be ashamed

2014 Eagles O line is ranked 2nd Sanchez
2013 Eagles O line is ranked 1st Foles

Shocking you conveniently left that out...

I have said several times on here that Bradford will have no excuses this year. He has the best O line he has ever played behind and the best WR corp he has ever played with (which is saying something in and of itself with your rating of the group). The new coach is not a factor...Bradford will have options at the line...and he is not wholly unfamiliar with the offense. (even with silly articles like the one where Wentz is "learning the offense faster" as they run in shorts).

What is really disingenuous is even mentioning Brady who is playing in like his 200th year in the same offense and is, well, Brady.

This really is the worst time of year.....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 31 2016, 09:29 AM) *
I have said several times on here that Bradford will have no excuses this year. He has the best O line he has ever played behind and the best WR corp he has ever played with (which is saying something in and of itself with your rating of the group). The new coach is not a factor...Bradford will have options at the line...and he is not wholly unfamiliar with the offense. (even with silly articles like the one where Wentz is "learning the offense faster" as they run in shorts).



Good.

Thank You!

This is progress.
Joegrane
In what is essentially a contract year and with "options at the line" you can bet that he is going to chuck it when he sees an opportunity. This could be another Andy R type of Run/Pass ratio!

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 31 2016, 10:29 AM) *
r...Bradford will have options at the line...and he is not wholly unfamiliar with the offense. ...

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