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Zero
All those drops last year and we're hearing that there are drops in this camp too. Ugh! But then I read this:
QUOTE
Bradford has had issues with his receivers dropping passes throughout his career, from his time in St. Louis to his one season with the Eagles. The fact that multiple teammates of Bradford have pointed out how catchable Wentz's passes are is certainly interesting.

I know, consider the source, but that's a pretty definitive statement and I didn't research it's accuracy. But, if Bradford does have a history of drops, is it him, the receivers or a coincidence? This bears watching at least.
Eyrie
HIs supporters will point to the below average receivers that he has had to contend with, and his detractors will point out that there is one player who stayed the same.

nephillymike
What I noticed last year was that early on until mid to late season, his passes were on the WR's early and fast and it was tough for them to see the ball that quick out of their breaks. Also, many passes were behind WR's and fast. In mostly all of these cases, the WR's touched the ball so the old adage "if it hits your hands you got to catch it" made it a drop by most Bradford fans.

Later in the year, the ball got their a little later after they made their breaks and they were easier catches.

In the context of our WR"s sucking, I would say that many of the early drops were on Sam, but many of the later drops were on them.

I still say our WR corps is subpar at best, and hopefully Sam is more comfortable holding onto the ball for that split second longer to put the ball in a spot after the cut that the WR's can pick it up better.

Until you upgrade the QB and WR's, drops will be a problem on this team.
Joegrane
I recall people saying during the Foles era that he throws a very "catchable ball."

Maybe that means he takes something off of his throws when the guy is on a short route.

Is Bradford's strong arm a factor?

Is that why stronger TEs don't seem to be having the problem with drops as much as the smaller WRs and RBs.

QUOTE (Zero @ May 21 2016, 06:06 AM) *
All those drops last year and we're hearing that there are drops in this camp too. Ugh! But then I read this:

I know, consider the source, but that's a pretty definitive statement and I didn't research it's accuracy. But, if Bradford does have a history of drops, is it him, the receivers or a coincidence? This bears watching at least.

Birdman420
In an era when players are getting faster, stronger and more agile. We fault the QB for getting the ball on target to fast and strong? Maybe bradford is a tryhard passer who is ahead of his time. Even the latest handwear can't help the receivers reel in a ball that lacks "touch".

D Rock
QUOTE (Zero @ May 21 2016, 10:06 AM) *
All those drops last year and we're hearing that there are drops in this camp too. Ugh! But then I read this:

I know, consider the source, but that's a pretty definitive statement and I didn't research it's accuracy. But, if Bradford does have a history of drops, is it him, the receivers or a coincidence? This bears watching at least.

Quarterbacks don't catch balls. Sadly, neither do WRs who've played with Sammy. I think faulting a QB for a wide receiver dropping a ball that hits him in the hands is lunacy. Wide receivers get paid too. It's their job.
The Franchise
I'm sure many pro baseball players would call Jamie Moyer's fastball 'hittable' relative to Max Scherzer's.

If you're an NFL player and the ball hits you in the hands, you catch it or you fucked up. End of story.
Phits
If one or two receivers have trouble catching the ball, from a particular QB, it's on them.

When an entire career of receivers have trouble catching the ball from a particular QB, you have to look at the source.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 21 2016, 02:03 PM) *
If one or two receivers have trouble catching the ball, from a particular QB, it's on them.

When an entire career of receivers have trouble catching the ball from a particular QB, you have to look at the source.



There's no mirrors in that fan club Phits.

There is a long line of excuses and most are still in tact.

Below average WR at best.

New OC and coaching scheme/playbook.

Disillusionment and distraction over lack of a long term future here.

They will all be used, and often.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 21 2016, 03:47 PM) *
There's no mirrors in that fan club Phits.

There is a long line of excuses and most are still in tact.

Below average WR at best.

New OC and coaching scheme/playbook.

Disillusionment and distraction over lack of a long term future here.

They will all be used, and often.



Ok...lets look at it in simpler terms...name one WR who has gone on to greatness or even mediocrity with his replacements

Go ahead....I will wait....

It is a pretty short list....like none...

Brandon Gibson best career year is 600+ yards with Bradford
Danny Amendola best career year is 85 catches and 689 yards with? You guessed it
Laurant Robinson Had a great year with Romo (850 yds) and was out of the league a year later Played Bradofrd;s rookie year
Mark Clayton? Out of the league 1 season after Bradford
Donario Alexander? Actually had his best catch % with Bradford
Austin Pettis?
Greg Salas?
Brandon Lloyd actually had a decent year after being traded, mid season, to the Rams...did well with Bradford...struggled at first when Bradford was gone but had his best game without Bradford. Went to NE the next year and had less yards than in 2011. Missed 2013 and was out after a terrible 2014
Mike Sims Walker? Played 4 games before getting released and signing with Jax....where he had 11 yards and left the league
Steve Smith? His farewell tour....out of the league the next year...played 1 year for the Rams
Brian Quick? hahahahahaha
Chris Givens? Best year is with Bradford...go figure
Tavon Austin? was he a pro bowler?...umm..no catch % is the lowest of 3 years with Bradford but YR is highest and similar to his 3rd season for both categories.
Stedman Bailey? umm..yeah...

Did I miss anyone? A top 40 WR?

How is that for a mirror?

TEs?
Daniel Fells best year with Bradford
Billy Bajema? hahaha...best year with Bradford
Lance Kendricks? best year with Bradford
Matt Mulligan?
Mike McNeill?
Jared Cook? Best year was 2013....had have his yards in 7 games with Bradford...including his only game over 100 yds (which certainly skews the number but that is the same for all WRs)


So yeah....if it is one or 2 WRs who suck.....it might be the QB.....if it is every WR drafted or signed in FA....it is likely the personnel evaluator.....


Do you guys even think before you spew the sarcasm? It might help to have a clue before you do.....I keep telling you....the re are plenty of sites to use to research your opinion so you know a little about what you say.

And I have not even started on his OL.....lol If he did not have Steven Jackson Bradford may have killed himself.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 21 2016, 03:18 PM) *
Ok...lets look at it in simpler terms...name one WR who has gone on to greatness or even mediocrity with his replacements

Go ahead....I will wait....

It is a pretty short list....like none...

Brandon Gibson best career year is 600+ yards with Bradford
Danny Amendola best career year is 85 catches and 689 yards with? You guessed it
Laurant Robinson Had a great year with Romo (850 yds) and was out of the league a year later Played Bradofrd;s rookie year
Mark Clayton? Out of the league 1 season after Bradford
Donario Alexander? Actually had his best catch % with Bradford
Austin Pettis?
Greg Salas?
Brandon Lloyd actually had a decent year after being traded, mid season, to the Rams...did well with Bradford...struggled at first when Bradford was gone but had his best game without Bradford. Went to NE the next year and had less yards than in 2011. Missed 2013 and was out after a terrible 2014
Mike Sims Walker? Played 4 games before getting released and signing with Jax....where he had 11 yards and left the league
Steve Smith? His farewell tour....out of the league the next year...played 1 year for the Rams
Brian Quick? hahahahahaha
Chris Givens? Best year is with Bradford...go figure
Tavon Austin? was he a pro bowler?...umm..no catch % is the lowest of 3 years with Bradford but YR is highest and similar to his 3rd season for both categories.
Stedman Bailey? umm..yeah...

Did I miss anyone? A top 40 WR?

How is that for a mirror?

So yeah....if it is one or 2 WRs who suck.....it might be the QB.....if it is every WR drafted or signed in FA....it is likely the personnel evaluator.....


Do you guys even think before you spew the sarcasm? It might help to have a clue before you do.....I keep telling you....the re are plenty of sites to use to research your opinion so you know a little about what you say.

And I have not even started on his OL.....lol If he did not have Steven Jackson Bradford may have killed himself.



And lucky for the excuse makers, we kept that WR excuse in line for this year, as have we on the new OC, coach system, playbook etc.

I have to dig up my post from last year, but the QB's who played on those teams had better years than their career averages, so they must have been good enough to at least be average vs, the other WR's those guys played with during their non Rams years.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 21 2016, 04:29 PM) *
And lucky for the excuse makers, we kept that WR excuse in line for this year, as have we on the new OC, coach system, playbook etc.

I have to dig up my post from last year, but the QB's who played on those teams had better years than their career averages, so they must have been good enough to at least be average vs, the other WR's those guys played with during their non Rams years.



I was ready for that silliness...

Clemens? He had 3 games where he eclipsed 200 yards in 9 starts...his rating 78.8...Bradford's 90.9
But lets continue...he threw 8 TDs and 7 picks in 9 games....Bradford was 14/4 in 7. Oh...Bradford's Y/G? 241....Clemens?167....Funny how it is when you omit the numbers that kill you?

For the Record...in his career, Clemens only started more than 3 games twice....once for the Jets in 2007,(8 games) his 2nd year. Both years are pretty similar.

Austin Davis was a 2 year journeyman with no starts before 2014 and played so well he went to Cleveland the next year to start 2 games

If you like I can do Shuan Hill....I have his numbers as well but you won't like it...as a preview...he strted 8 games for the Rams....he has 2 other season stating 8 and 10 games for SF and Det.and both are better for Yds., TDs, INT %

But check for yourself...
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 21 2016, 04:18 PM) *
Ok...lets look at it in simpler terms...name one WR who has gone on to greatness or even mediocrity with his replacements

Go ahead....I will wait....

It is a pretty short list....like none...

I'm lazy, you're inspired. Perfect match. laugh.gif

How come you didn't include Matthews, Ertz, et al? What do they do for the argument?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 21 2016, 05:10 PM) *
I'm lazy, you're inspired. Perfect match. laugh.gif

How come you didn't include Matthews, Ertz, et al? What do they do for the argument?



Fair

Ertz...best career year with Bradford completions vs. targets....Yards....
2015 4 drops 112 Targets
2013 3 drops 89 targets
2012 1 drop 56 targets

So no....and obviously why Ertz loves Bradford

Matthews.... same as Ertz catches, yards completions vs. targets
only 2 years to look at
2015 5 drops 128 targets
2014 6 drops 103 targets

Sproles hard to look at his numbers because Kelly's offense was so much different than San Diego or NO and how they threw to their backs but his number of catches were higher with Bradford than the previous year with the Eagles.
2015 2 drops 83 targets
2014 4 drops 62 targets

I am not so much inspired as I like to understand a situation and I am an information junkie

When I see Bradford play and see him throw I have to wonder why he has not had more success.....so I dig into it...

A good example is his YPA....when he came back the first half of the season was a ton of check downs so the rap was that he did not throw downfield and he did not do it much the first 4 games...then he started to get his confidence back and by the end of the season he was fourth in plays of 40yds+ in the league but people only remember, conveniently, those first 4 games.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 21 2016, 06:00 PM) *
Next question?

Why do you drink bear piss? laugh.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 21 2016, 06:07 PM) *
Why do you drink bear piss? laugh.gif


hahahahahahaha

I had to read that 4 times......hahahahahaha

I drank Modelo at the bar....though I was worried that you and Miley would try to take advantage of me if I drank too much...I am bigger than both of you but I saw you winking at Mikey...I almost switched to Miller Lite for my own protection.....

laugh.gif laugh.gif blah.gif ka.gif
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 21 2016, 06:28 PM) *
hahahahahahaha

I had to read that 4 times......hahahahahaha

I drank Modelo at the bar....though I was worried that you and Miley would try to take advantage of me if I drank too much...I am bigger than both of you but I saw you winking at Mikey...I almost switched to Miller Lite for my own protection.....

laugh.gif laugh.gif blah.gif ka.gif

Hahahahaha. I love typos. Who do you want to take advantage of you?
nd9kel
Good grief...In his Heisman year Bradford threw for 4,721 yards and 50 touchdowns. Those college receivers had NO problem catching his passes.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nd9kel @ May 21 2016, 08:05 PM) *
Good grief...In his Heisman year Bradford threw for 4,721 yards and 50 touchdowns. Those college receivers had NO problem catching his passes.

One thing I would say about this is that I seemed to notice that Bradford's accuracy dropped when targeting his second and third looks.

While I appreciate the "if it hits your hands, you need to catch it" sentiment, it seemed that he was throwing the ball to sub optimal locations, even if they were technically catchable balls.

In college, he was more consistently able to throw to his first read.

I'm not sure if anyone analyzes that element of QB play (accuracy to secondary receivers) but it could shed some light on his issues if my assumptions are correct.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 21 2016, 09:10 PM) *
One thing I would say about this is that I seemed to notice that Bradford's accuracy dropped when targeting his second and third looks.

While I appreciate the "if it hits your hands, you need to catch it" sentiment, it seemed that he was throwing the ball to sub optimal locations, even if they were technically catchable balls.

In college, he was more consistently able to throw to his first read.

I'm not sure if anyone analyzes that element of QB play (accuracy to secondary receivers) but it could shed some light on his issues if my assumptions are correct.


I presented the facts about his WRs with him and those who followed him....I also presented the facts on the WRs he played with...once again you ignore the facts about who he threw to..

I don't know what else you want. The facts are clear...it is not even debatable. Even the shitty guys he palyed with caught more balls with regularity with him...regardless of 2nd and 3rd looks.

I don't even care about his gaudy stats in college...I just look at his Pro numbers and the follow up numbers of the QBs and WRs he played with....even with the Eagles....

The notion that his ball is harder to catch than other QBs is simply not true.
Phits
QUOTE (nd9kel @ May 21 2016, 09:05 PM) *
Good grief...In his Heisman year Bradford threw for 4,721 yards and 50 touchdowns. Those college receivers had NO problem catching his passes.

What bearing does his college performance have on his ability as a pro? The only they served to do is deceive the pro scouts into thinking he is something that he isn't.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 22 2016, 02:36 AM) *
The notion that his ball is harder to catch than other QBs is simply not true.

Is this based on all of the passes that you caught from him? or your bastardized analytics?
Dreagon
A great receiver certainly helps, but most of these guys are in the NFL because they were the cream of the crop in college ball. There ought to be a plethora of serviceable journeyman receivers out there who at the least shouldn't make a QB look bad.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 22 2016, 10:51 AM) *
Is this based on all of the passes that you caught from him? or your bastardized analytics?


I get it..you either have no clue how to research something or you don't care to because the result disproves your opinion but the facts are the facts. I love the "bastardized" label....but it demonstrates an ignorance of serious analytics, the kind that say that Wentz is likely to fail based on an intense breakdown of his college performance which factors in competition, down and distance, optimal play result and a ton of other things that are way above my line of thinking. I just look at what really happened when he played with guys and what happened when those guys played without him. I also looked at how his replacement QBs played in their career and how they did filling in for him. I am not sure how you can look at any of it as bastardized.....I can understand not buying into the aforementioned analytics, I don't know how reliable they are but not sure how you ignore the numbers I presented. They are simple historical facts.

So now explain how they are bastardized? I get the idea that "hey, I will give a smart ass reply" but try to have an intelligent counter argument. That is like me saying "so you extensive experience coaching QBs tells you Bradford is terrible".
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