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Zero


I'm a bit surprised there haven't been any comments yet. I listened to most of it live and thought it was what should have been expected. He sounded beaten but determined. He blamed his agent, I'm sure at his agent's direction. He said he trusts Condon. He said he'd be a leader and a good teammate. He said he'll help Wentz.

He did what he needed to do. Now he needs to do what he said he'll do. He needs to play well and earn the Eagles decent compensation to go wherever he wants to go next year.

BTW, Missanelli is a tool. He's another Eskin without the sources. I hope my car radio is zapped every day at 2 PM.
Zero
Giddyap ...
QUOTE
"He's still the leader of this team," tight end Zach Ertz said after the Eagles finished up the first of 10 voluntary OTA practices over the next three weeks. "He only ended up missing seven days (of workouts). People want to make it a huge deal. Like it was a holdout.

"No one in here is looking at him with any sort of grudge. I think 90 percent of the guys either texted or talked to him when he was gone. I spoke with him on the phone regularly. He's not a grudgmental guy. He's not going to hold a grudge against anyone. I think he's excited to be here again. Like I said, he only missed seven days. It's not like he held out for the entire offseason program or anything."
Joegrane
It was okay according to quotes I read.

I would have taken a somewhat different approach:

By signing the contract I CHOSE to play in Philly, chose to play with these teammates. I was hoping to lead this team to a championship and end my career here.

I was expecting them to draft a QB in the 2nd, or 3rd round.

I was hoping they would use the other picks to help make us a better team in the short term.

Instead they sold the farm for the #2 pick. Of course I was disappointed for many reasons.

I was convinced that I would be traded during or shortly after the draft. My agent told me there was interest from other teams. So it made no sense to come to voluntary OTAs. It would have been a distraction.

Now that it appears I will be here this year I am back to get to work.

QUOTE (Zero @ May 18 2016, 06:55 AM) *


I'm a bit surprised there haven't been any comments yet. I listened to most of it live and thought it was what should have been expected. He sounded beaten but determined. He blamed his agent, I'm sure at his agent's direction. He said he trusts Condon. He said he'd be a leader and a good teammate. He said he'll help Wentz.

He did what he needed to do. Now he needs to do what he said he'll do. He needs to play well and earn the Eagles decent compensation to go wherever he wants to go next year.

BTW, Missanelli is a tool. He's another Eskin without the sources. I hope my car radio is zapped every day at 2 PM.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 18 2016, 08:57 AM) *
It was okay according to quotes I read.

I would have taken a somewhat different approach:

By signing the contract I CHOSE to play in Philly, chose to play with these teammates. I was hoping to lead this team to a championship and end my career here.

I was expecting them to draft a QB in the 2nd, or 3rd round.

I was hoping they would use the other picks to help make us a better team in the short term.

Instead they sold the farm for the #2 pick. Of course I was disappointed for many reasons.

I was convinced that I would be traded during or shortly after the draft. My agent told me there was interest from other teams. So it made no sense to come to voluntary OTAs. It would have been a distraction.

Now that it appears I will be here this year I am back to get to work.


You should have been his PR person.

That would have went over much better.
nephillymike
Here's the actual press conference.

http://livestream.com/accounts/8109350/events/2963279

No complaints from my end.

It is what it is.

Not too thrilled about the "Sam's my man" mantra form the HC but I understand it, but would understand it better if we didn't pay $12M to his friend as a backup QB.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 18 2016, 08:36 PM) *
Here's the actual press conference.

http://livestream.com/accounts/8109350/events/2963279

No complaints from my end.

It is what it is.

Not too thrilled about the "Sam's my man" mantra form the HC but I understand it, but would understand it better if we didn't pay $12M to his friend as a backup QB.


No matter how anyone feels about Bradford, good or bad, I don't get people not flipping out over the money paid to Daniel. I was listening to the Sielski/Murphy podcast last night and they were brutal on Daniel's OTA work. Repeatedly called him a scrub who looks like a scrub next to Bradford in practice. The contract was clearly Pederson paying his friend.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattiso...tz-endgame.html
(just for you Z..lol)
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 19 2016, 01:31 PM) *
No matter how anyone feels about Bradford, good or bad, I don't get people not flipping out over the money paid to Daniel. I was listening to the Sielski/Murphy podcast last night and they were brutal on Daniel's OTA work. Repeatedly called him a scrub who looks like a scrub next to Bradford in practice. The contract was clearly Pederson paying his friend.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattiso...tz-endgame.html
(just for you Z..lol)

I'm honored. You get a passing grade.

I don't give a rat's ass what they paid for Daniel. DPede feels he's important as a fourth QB coach, both for SamB and CW (I'll always think of Bonnie & Clyde with those initials). It's transition insurance to keep Sleeves on top of his game while Dakota gets focused attention. They want to win, unlike a team like Cleveland who sounds resolved to losing at least for another year.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 19 2016, 02:41 PM) *
I'm honored. You get a passing grade.

I don't give a rat's ass what they paid for Daniel. DPede feels he's important as a fourth QB coach, both for SamB and CW (I'll always think of Bonnie & Clyde with those initials). It's transition insurance to keep Sleeves on top of his game while Dakota gets focused attention. They want to win, unlike a team like Cleveland who sounds resolved to losing at least for another year.



Sorry Z...I don't see how Danial keeps anyone at the top of their game. He is a career backup and from the accounts from OTAs he looks every bit that part. He is just another example of misplaced assets.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 19 2016, 03:37 PM) *
Sorry Z...I don't see how Danial keeps anyone at the top of their game. He is a career backup and from the accounts from OTAs he looks every bit that part. He is just another example of misplaced assets.

I think you should send Pedy a text/tweet/pigeon and let him know the error of his thinking. While we wait for his response, we can start to see if he is HC material or just an aged placeholder for DMac. He's my biggest concern on this team, but I think we need to give him time to show if has a clue or not. Daniel knows the offense, how well he executes it is a different question. We'll need to see if he can help Sleeves and Dakota grasp it quickly so we can have realistic hopes of a competitive season.
mcnabbulous
$7M seems like a lot of money to us, but it certainly isn't NFL starting QB money. It's high end backup money.

Whether Daniel is a high end backup is up for debate. But let's not pretend the money is something it isn't.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 19 2016, 05:09 PM) *
$7M seems like a lot of money to us, but it certainly isn't NFL starting QB money. It's high end backup money.

Whether Daniel is a high end backup is up for debate. But let's not pretend the money is something it isn't.




Can you list all the high-end backups getting Daniel money? You state it pretty confidently so I imagine you have a good handle on who they are and what they are making.. Daniel was reported to have set and NFL record for a backup QB but I guess, from your post, that is not correct.

Looking forward to seeing the research.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 19 2016, 04:09 PM) *
$7M seems like a lot of money to us, but it certainly isn't NFL starting QB money. It's high end backup money.

Whether Daniel is a high end backup is up for debate. But let's not pretend the money is something it isn't.



I heard that he got more guaranteed money than all of the NFL backup QB's COMBINED.

Yeah, it's a big deal.

Given Sam's futility and the money we paid Daniel, he better be damn close to unseating Sam or it is a waste of money.

What, 3 QB's can't teach the kid? (Pedey, Reich, DiFlippo)
Reality Fan
Funny thing...

McCown in Cleveland, who was supposed to start is at 5 million and now Griffin is there at 5 million. One of them will start.

Henne is at 4.7, he was the highest paid backup.

Keenum is at 3.6 and stanton is at 2.5

As Baclups go, Daniel's contract is way out of whack....he has no equal....and it is not even close.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 19 2016, 08:57 PM) *
Funny thing...

McCown in Cleveland, who was supposed to start is at 5 million and now Griffin is there at 5 million. One of them will start.

Henne is at 4.7, he was the highest paid backup.

Keenum is at 3.6 and stanton is at 2.5

As Baclups go, Daniel's contract is way out of whack....he has no equal....and it is not even close.

His contract is brand new. That's how things will start to trend. It's like how $18M was once top-end starter money. Now those guys are making $22M+ and the average guys are making $18 with their new contracts.

Comparing Daniel to a guy who signed a new deal 2-3 years ago is a fruitless effort. The way the cap is trending, this will be more and more the norm.

I'm not saying he's deserving of it. I'm just saying that the numbers are going to align with league wide trends as more and more guys sign these deals.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 19 2016, 11:37 PM) *
His contract is brand new. That's how things will start to trend. It's like how $18M was once top-end starter money. Now those guys are making $22M+ and the average guys are making $18 with their new contracts.

Comparing Daniel to a guy who signed a new deal 2-3 years ago is a fruitless effort. The way the cap is trending, this will be more and more the norm.

I'm not saying he's deserving of it. I'm just saying that the numbers are going to align with league wide trends as more and more guys sign these deals.


there is no trend period. I listed the 3 exceptions plus the muddled starter situation in Cleveland.

Many of these contracts re 1-2 years old.
Henne's contract was just signed and they killed the jags over it...
Drew Stanton just signed his 2 year deal
Casey Keenum just signed the RFA tender

There simply is no trend to pay backups more.

NO Just signed Mccown 2 years/ 3 million
Carolina just signed Anderson for 2 years/4.7
Atlanta just signed Schaub to a 1 year deal for 1.2
Giants have Nassib at 750 who they drafted.
Steelers...Landry Jones who the drafted 780
Ravens...Mallet is in the 2nd year of a 2 year contract 1.5
Lion Orlovsky on a 1 year deal for 1 million
San Diego has Clemens ona 1 year deal for 1 million
Bears Hoyer 1 year/1 million
San Fran...Gabbert 2 years.4 million
Dallas Moore 2 years/1.4
Skins....McCoy 3 years/9 just signed. (1.8 guaranteed)
Green Bay Hundly 2nd year of a 4 year contract / 2.5 million
Seattle Boykin 3 years/1.6 just signed
KC Murray...4 years/2,4 just signed
Colts Tolzien 2 years/3.5 just signed

I can go on but I think the point is pretty clear...other than drafted guys most of the league is in the first or 2nd year of their backup contracts and no one is close. So there is no trend.....it is a waste of assets.
Zero
I don't know why this is difficult to understand. Daniel is the new coach's security blanket. It doesn't matter if it's trend setting, out of line or extravagant. DPede felt he needed him and he has him.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ May 20 2016, 05:27 AM) *
I don't know why this is difficult to understand. Daniel is the new coach's security blanket. It doesn't matter if it's trend setting, out of line or extravagant. DPede felt he needed him and he has him.

cheers.gif ^This.
I don't know why some people are getting hung up on the $$ figure.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 20 2016, 05:27 AM) *
I don't know why this is difficult to understand. Daniel is the new coach's security blanket. It doesn't matter if it's trend setting, out of line or extravagant. DPede felt he needed him and he has him.


lol

What is difficult to understand is why the new coach needs a security blanket and why that very notion is not alarming to anyone.

It is one thing to bring in a guy who knows your system but another to grossly overpay him.

More than that though, will people stop acting like Pederson is bringing some groundbreaking offense. For the love of god, it is the West Coast offense...the offense has been around for decades now.


mcnabbulous
I think Daniel is overpaid, but this year his cap hit is $500k more than Mark Sanchez. Next year it jumps, but at that time we can evaluate where things stand around the league.

He's paid a lot, for a backup, but I'm not convinced it's completely out of whack with where things are headed. And it certainly isn't starter money.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 10:38 AM) *
I think Daniel is overpaid, but this year his cap hit is $500k more than Mark Sanchez. Next year it jumps, but at that time we can evaluate where things stand around the league.

He's paid a lot, for a backup, but I'm not convinced it's completely out of whack with where things are headed. And it certainly isn't starter money.


Mark Sanchez was signed as an insurance policy because no one was sold on Foles. Sanchez also had a pedigree as a starter with multiple playoff wins. Sanchez is now pegged to be a starter in Denver.

Beyond that I do not know what it will take to convince you there is no trend, the facts clearly did not even though almost every one of the first 20 I looked at signed in FA were in the first or 2nd year of their deals.

The only trend is that backups do not make much. The exceptions are on teams with an unsettled starting QB picture.

My concern is not so much the dollar amount itself but the judgement of the use of assets that is demonstrates. Why does a coach feel the need to have an expensive insurance policy for an offense that is not revolutionary and with a staff so heavy on QB experience. That scares me.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 20 2016, 10:05 AM) *
Mark Sanchez was signed as an insurance policy because no one was sold on Foles. Sanchez also had a pedigree as a starter with multiple playoff wins. Sanchez is now pegged to be a starter in Denver.

The same could be said about Daniel/Bradford. Sanchez is a placeholder. Nothing more. No one considers him a viable long term starter and that wasn't the intention of his contract. He was paid as a premium backup.

QUOTE
Beyond that I do not know what it will take to convince you there is no trend, the facts clearly did not even though almost every one of the first 20 I looked at signed in FA were in the first or 2nd year of their deals.

The only trend is that backups do not make much. The exceptions are on teams with an unsettled starting QB picture.

My concern is not so much the dollar amount itself but the judgement of the use of assets that is demonstrates. Why does a coach feel the need to have an expensive insurance policy for an offense that is not revolutionary and with a staff so heavy on QB experience. That scares me.

High end backups get paid ~$5M right now. That will continue to go up. That's how trends work.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 11:10 AM) *
The same could be said about Daniel/Bradford. Sanchez is a placeholder. Nothing more. No one considers him a viable long term starter and that wasn't the intention of his contract. He was paid as a premium backup.


High end backups get paid ~$5M right now. That will continue to go up. That's how trends work.


The funny thing is you call me stubborn and yet you stick to something I have already proven to be patently false.

Bradford was paid 22 million. He is clearly the starter.

The only team paying their backup 5 million is cleveland and that is because they don't have a starter.

I get it, you said something silly that the facts clearly disprove. I can repost the full list of backups and what they make. You were wrong about what backups make. You were wrong about the bullshit that it is because they are on the 2-3 year of their contracts. Face it, you are flat wrong but as usual you can't just say it. You spoke without actually knowing what you were talking about. We all have done it, the difference is you just can't ever admit it.

and I am the stubborn one....that is funny.
mcnabbulous
There are a few backup (or backup caliber QBs) making ~$5M this year. I'm predicting that moving forward (meaning the future, which neither of us know for sure) backup QB salaries will be rising to the numbers that align with Daniel's contract.

You are saying that in the future that won't happen. Because you are a prophet. Time will tell.

The salary cap is rising dramatically. It's why the $17.5M that Bradford is making this year no longer is high end starter money.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 11:55 AM) *
There are a few backup (or backup caliber QBs) making ~$5M this year. I'm predicting that moving forward (meaning the future, which neither of us know for sure) backup QB salaries will be rising to the numbers that align with Daniel's contract.

You are saying that in the future that won't happen. Because you are a prophet. Time will tell.

The salary cap is rising dramatically. It's why the $17.5M that Bradford is making this year no longer is high end starter money.



What I am saying is that 90 % of the league is paying their backups less than 5 million.
87% pay them less than 4 million
85% pay them less than 3 million
75% pay them less than 2 million.

If you remove Cleveland who has 2 guys signed to be starters no team pays their backups 5 and 1 pays 4.7.

I am not a prophet, I am just looking at the facts. Almost all of the FA backups just signed their deal now or last year. I can't make it much more clear. Do I think the pay will rise? of course, all pay will rise. Do I think it will rise close to Daniel? Not a chance. The team he left signed a guy to a 4 year deal for half of what Daniel was getting per year there...that is a trend in the opposite direction.

and no need to bring up Bradford again...we already established what "long term" starter money is....please don't go the "global warming to climate change" route by trying to inject "high end" into it.



mcnabbulous
Haha long term money isn't a thing.

Long term is a measure of time.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 03:34 PM) *
Haha long term money isn't a thing.

Long term is a measure of time.


No surprise you're a Keynesian.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 03:34 PM) *
Haha long term money isn't a thing.

Long term is a measure of time.


you mean like the trend of 1? Is that a thing?...lololol

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 20 2016, 04:04 PM) *
you mean like the trend of 1? Is that a thing?...lololol

Do you know where Sam ranks in guaranteed money over the course of his contract? 22nd. For total contract value? 20th.

Now I realize you think he got some "long term money" from the Eagles, but those two financial values that actually do relate to money suggest he got the type of commitment from them that suggests he is an average to below average starting QB.

Now if you want to measure something that can be calculated and explained using the phrase "long term" he ranks tied for 76th with a two year deal.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2016, 05:32 PM) *
Do you know where Sam ranks in guaranteed money over the course of his contract? 22nd. For total contract value? 20th.

Now I realize you think he got some "long term money" from the Eagles, but those two financial values that actually do relate to money suggest he got the type of commitment from them that suggests he is an average to below average starting QB.

Now if you want to measure something that can be calculated and explained using the phrase "long term" he ranks tied for 76th with a two year deal.


Now here is where you are the biggest hypocrite.....you tried to bullshit your way on backuo QBs byy making up total bullshit about contracts being 2-3 years old and the money was not like it was today...I had to prove that you just made it up as you do most things. Now you want to count his Guaranteed money vs others in his pay range and leave out the fact that most are 4 year contracts or longer....something I pointed out when I printed the list and Bradford's is 2 years and really one. Something you have pointed out attacking Bradford's camp for thinking there was stability here. You are just to much of a hypocrite to remember or care. Would you like me to provide the years and Guaranteed money for them? It gets old debunking your BS but the facts are pretty easy to present.

I never said he got a long term commitment, I said he was paid in a salary range commensurate to long term starters....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ May 20 2016, 04:27 AM) *
I don't know why this is difficult to understand. Daniel is the new coach's security blanket. It doesn't matter if it's trend setting, out of line or extravagant. DPede felt he needed him and he has him.



It sure does if he sucks!!

We don't have the budget for giving outrageous contracts to your best bud.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 20 2016, 10:05 AM) *
Mark Sanchez was signed as an insurance policy because no one was sold on Foles. Sanchez also had a pedigree as a starter with multiple playoff wins. Sanchez is now pegged to be a starter in Denver.

Beyond that I do not know what it will take to convince you there is no trend, the facts clearly did not even though almost every one of the first 20 I looked at signed in FA were in the first or 2nd year of their deals.

The only trend is that backups do not make much. The exceptions are on teams with an unsettled starting QB picture.

My concern is not so much the dollar amount itself but the judgement of the use of assets that is demonstrates. Why does a coach feel the need to have an expensive insurance policy for an offense that is not revolutionary and with a staff so heavy on QB experience. That scares me.



At the risk of ridicule, I agree with this.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 20 2016, 10:23 PM) *
At the risk of ridicule, I agree with this.

Me too, but I'd substitute "concerns" for "scares."
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 20 2016, 09:07 PM) *
Now here is where you are the biggest hypocrite.....you tried to bullshit your way on backuo QBs byy making up total bullshit about contracts being 2-3 years old and the money was not like it was today...I had to prove that you just made it up as you do most things. Now you want to count his Guaranteed money vs others in his pay range and leave out the fact that most are 4 year contracts or longer....something I pointed out when I printed the list and Bradford's is 2 years and really one. Something you have pointed out attacking Bradford's camp for thinking there was stability here. You are just to much of a hypocrite to remember or care. Would you like me to provide the years and Guaranteed money for them? It gets old debunking your BS but the facts are pretty easy to present.

I never said he got a long term commitment, I said he was paid in a salary range commensurate to long term starters....

And my point is that salary range has nothing to do with long term anything. Everyone knows that NFL contracts are only as valuable as their guaranteed money. You've been arguing some idea that Bradford is the exception to this rule.

My point is that he is paid essentially th equivalent of a one year franchise QB salary.

As for Daniel, he most certainly isn't paid like a starter. Because as been repeatedly pointed out, starting veterans of the average variety are making ~$18M these days. That is the new normal.

He's paid as a high end backup. I have said all along he's overpaid, but my point is that he's not paid starter money. And no, regardless of how it plays out, Josh McCown and Mark Sanchez aren't NFL starters and they're paid so accordingly.

In the next year or two, more and more backups will be paid like Daniel. He'll still be at the high end of the spectrum, and I'll still question how much we paid him, but it will align with other contracts.

While I wouldn't have paid Daniel that much, our org obviously did it expecting that he could step in and keep us competitive if the #1 goes down. Not many teams are capable of saying that about their backup.
mcnabbulous
As for assets used on Daniel scaring/concerning people...

Next year, we will have and average to below average cap hit allocated to our QBs. That's one of the benefits of having a rookie contract QB. Even the #2 pick. Even this year, with Bradford in the mix, we are not completely out of line with cap commitment to the position.
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