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Phits
I am willing to bet Fletcher Cox is one of those players....

QUOTE
Howie Roseman and Doug Pederson may be welcoming Bradford back with "open arms, " as they and now Condon have stated. However, according to a source, there are a number of players who view Bradford differently than they previously have.

Linc...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 12 2016, 06:33 PM) *
I am willing to bet Fletcher Cox is one of those players....


Linc...



another "unnamed sources BS article.....lol

But you make a great point about Cox......I think you may be spot on there...
Zero
Bradford got hysterical and overreacted. Now there's a media driven frenzy. I'm not surprised that some players look at him differently ... so what? When TC and then the games start, he'll be the QB and leader of the offense and all of this hype will mean something very similar to my handle.

I may have to take the part about media driven frenzy back though. Why the f*ck Condon went on the radio and kept this alive is a legitimate question. It's not helping him or his client and it's not helping the Eagles. Is he still trying to work some kind of trade at the bequest of Bradford? Does he know something we don't?
mcnabbulous
I can't imagine too many NFL players feel sympathetic to Sam's plight. He's been one of the highest paid players in football since his arrival. A guy with instant, lifelong financial security. And he's done very little on the field to justify it (regardless of any perceived excuses).

This league is full of guys who never see their rightful payday due to injury or other reasons who have produced more than Bradford.

OT: I know a few of you had graciously asked about the status of my pending arrival and I can happily say that she was a wonderful little Mother's Day gift this past Sunday. Everything didn't go as smoothly as you could hope, but I'm happy to say that both my daughter and wife are doing great now.

We're currently watching her first Phillies game together.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 12 2016, 09:08 PM) *
OT: I know a few of you had graciously asked about the status of my pending arrival and I can happily say that she was a wonderful little Mother's Day gift this past Sunday. Everything didn't go as smoothly as you could hope, but I'm happy to say that both my daughter and wife are doing great now.

We're currently watching her first Phillies game together.

Congratulations, dad! Very happy everyone is healthy and doing well. Good luck, Nabby. God bless your daughter and her parents.
samaroo
Congratulation Nabby! Glad to hear everyone is okay!
Reality Fan
and now several beat writers have written about what bs the article was.....

Had he missed any real time, real practice time....maybe, just maybe

But these guys all understand it is a business and it is utter BS that guys don't like guys who make a lot more than them....do you realize the implied anarchy you would have from that staement. There are plenty of guys int he league who never live up to their contract......did Kam Chancellor not get welcome back with open arms and he missed real games.

People look at this through "I am a jealous fan" eyes. To these guys this is business....

Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 12 2016, 11:52 PM) *
and now several beat writers have written about what bs the article was.....

Had he missed any real time, real practice time....maybe, just maybe

But these guys all understand it is a business and it is utter BS that guys don't like guys who make a lot more than them....do you realize the implied anarchy you would have from that staement. There are plenty of guys int he league who never live up to their contract......did Kam Chancellor not get welcome back with open arms and he missed real games.

People look at this through "I am a jealous fan" eyes. To these guys this is business....

Chancellor has proven his worth and didn't throw a hissy fit.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 12 2016, 11:52 PM) *
did Kam Chancellor not get welcome back with open arms and he missed real games.

Players understand when you holdout for money or a new contract. They don't tend to sympathize with players who have been paid handsomely and still complain. Just imagine you're a player on the team who thinks they're underpaid (which accounts for a great deal of players). Sammy comes off looking like the spoiled rich kid who wanted the lamborghini and is complaining because he got a ferrari.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ May 13 2016, 08:30 AM) *
Players understand when you holdout for money or a new contract. They don't tend to sympathize with players who have been paid handsomely and still complain. Just imagine you're a player on the team who thinks they're underpaid (which accounts for a great deal of players). Sammy comes off looking like the spoiled rich kid who wanted the lamborghini and is complaining because he got a ferrari.

I think the relevant point is that two months earlier he just signed the contract that paid him that money. This isn't like he outperformed his existing deal, he just signed the damn contract!
Reality Fan
Chancellor certainly threw a hissy fit....he was pissed other players got extensions and he didn't.

I raise the white flag.....It has become utterly ridiculous at this point. The media here knows what buttons to push and you lemmings take the bait. If you look at the totality of coverage some writers even tout both sides.

The reality of it is the players don't give a shit. You guys took Bradford's move personally for whatever fucked up reason and you think the players must as well. The difference is that these guys actually know Bradford unlike us and players view it as a business. What he did was to protect his long term business plan.

The other fallacy is that players won't like Bradford because he makes so much money and has not won anything. Players respect effort and ability and that is why guys love him....unlike emotional fans, players know the what and why about players. They know and understand hopeless situations. A regular part of the NFL is highly paid players not living up to contracts....see Murray/Maxwell. Murray took heat because what he did on the field for effort, to these guys that is all that matters. Bradford is very well liked by the guys he plays with but it is more fun to believe the opposite when the old unnamed source says it. What is really funny is it is not an unnamed player....it is a fucking unnamed source saying players said it.

Fucking lemmimgs.....too damn funny....I guess bashing the guy makes people feel better about themselves...
Zero
But Chancellor has a record of success and was a couple of years into his contract extension.

You have an amazing talent for ignoring the point. The POINT is that he just signed the contract. If the contract didn't say what he thought it should say, that's his problem and he has no basis to bitch.

Second, you also continue to completely ignore the fact that I keep telling you I like Bradford which doesn't mean I have to ignore that he screwed up. He's human like the rest of us ... maybe not Clark Kent, but he seems to find himself in a Kryptonite field and refuses to crawl out. laugh.gif

Take your meds or call the lady from the bar and relax. But please, stop scratching on the chalkboard. You lost. wink.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 13 2016, 10:28 AM) *
But Chancellor has a record of success and was a couple of years into his contract extension.

You have an amazing talent for ignoring the point. The POINT is that he just signed the contract. If the contract didn't say what he thought it should say, that's his problem and he has no basis to bitch.

Second, you also continue to completely ignore the fact that I keep telling you I like Bradford which doesn't mean I have to ignore that he screwed up. He's human like the rest of us ... maybe not Clark Kent, but he seems to find himself in a Kryptonite field and refuses to crawl out. laugh.gif

Take your meds or call the lady from the bar and relax. But please, stop scratching on the chalkboard. You lost. wink.gif


No...I don't miss the point....I get what your saying.....but there is no difference....Chancellor had multiple years left on an EXTENSION HE SIGNED and missed fucking games!!! Not practice, not Practice (thank you Allen) Games!!! Which Seattle lost, by the way....so don't give me this bs that players are mad Sam missed some lifting and pitch and catch but players stood in solidarity behind a guy UNDER CONTRACT THAT HE AGREED TO missed 2 games by holding out and his team lost both games.

I have said he screwed up...he gambled and lost but there is likely not one player who liked Sam before that doesn't like him now. Maybe if he missed camp that may be different but he hasn't.

And I just had a lunch visitor who was far better looking than the lady at the bar....she relaxed me...lol It is you old guys that take meds....not me...hahahahaha

Can;t wait to see whats next.....Sam tips bad in Philly? An unnamed source saw him kick a dog?
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 13 2016, 02:02 PM) *
No...I don't miss the point....I get what your saying.....but there is no difference....Chancellor had multiple years left on an EXTENSION HE SIGNED and missed fucking games!!! Not practice, not Practice (thank you Allen) Games!!! Which Seattle lost, by the way....so don't give me this bs that players are mad Sam missed some lifting and pitch and catch but players stood in solidarity behind a guy UNDER CONTRACT THAT HE AGREED TO missed 2 games by holding out and his team lost both games.

I have said he screwed up...he gambled and lost but there is likely not one player who liked Sam before that doesn't like him now. Maybe if he missed camp that may be different but he hasn't.

And I just had a lunch visitor who was far better looking than the lady at the bar....she relaxed me...lol It is you old guys that take meds....not me...hahahahaha

Can;t wait to see whats next.....Sam tips bad in Philly? An unnamed source saw him kick a dog?

Please wait while I try to find where I said "players are mad Sam missed some lifting and pitch and catch ..." Can not locate. Please try again ... but please take off the blindfold so intelligent discourse is an available option.

You think there's no difference between a player objecting to an extension he signed two years previously that he says was a team friendly deal to allow other important players to resign and a player who signs a new deal two months previously in lieu of free agency because he ostensibly had no other reasonable offers? rolleyes.gif

Sorry, friend. Meds may not be enough for that reasoning.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 13 2016, 02:08 AM) *
OT: I know a few of you had graciously asked about the status of my pending arrival and I can happily say that she was a wonderful little Mother's Day gift this past Sunday. Everything didn't go as smoothly as you could hope, but I'm happy to say that both my daughter and wife are doing great now.

We're currently watching her first Phillies game together.

Outstanding! Congrats!!!
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ May 13 2016, 01:30 PM) *
Players understand when you holdout for money or a new contract. They don't tend to sympathize with players who have been paid handsomely and still complain. Just imagine you're a player on the team who thinks they're underpaid (which accounts for a great deal of players). Sammy comes off looking like the spoiled rich kid who wanted the lamborghini and is complaining because he got a ferrari.

This = Truth
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 13 2016, 03:47 PM) *
Please wait while I try to find where I said "players are mad Sam missed some lifting and pitch and catch ..." Can not locate. Please try again ... but please take off the blindfold so intelligent discourse is an available option.

You think there's no difference between a player objecting to an extension he signed two years previously that he says was a team friendly deal to allow other important players to resign and a player who signs a new deal two months previously in lieu of free agency because he ostensibly had no other reasonable offers? rolleyes.gif

Sorry, friend. Meds may not be enough for that reasoning.


How about explaining to me how a player who got pissed about his situation and future changing from what he was promised, getting over it and coming back after missing no mandatory time (ahhh...that tricky word) is more damaging than a player who signs an extension (loved your characterization of his feelings which is utter bullshit) and hen holds out with multiple years left AND misses 2 games which his team loses and he acknowledges that some on his team are pissed at him. You can rewrite history if it makes you feel better but Kam even mentioned how his teammates felt. Bradford missed nothing important, I know that, his teammates know that, hell even the beat writers know that but keep on keeping on with that...

I think there is a big difference...Chancellor hurt his team directly, Bradford did nothing but piss off fans who feel he owes them something and he provided bloggers and beat writers a few weeks of stories which they have thoroughly beaten to death. On a positive note, at least BGN stopped with those fucking annoying articles on mock drafts from a bunch of nobodies...
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 13 2016, 04:00 PM) *
How about explaining ...

Here's what I'll explain then I'm done.

I don't blame Sam for trying to force a trade. I don't think he damaged the team unless one considers drama as damage. I don't think he's a terrible QB and I want him starting for the Eagles for as long as he proves he's the best QB. I think he acted like a pampered, entitled athlete and I don't think that will matter if he plays well.
Reality Fan
Fair enough

Here is what I think of Bradford and it may shock you:
1. I don't know if he is good or bad....I know what I saw out of him last year after he settled in looked like the play of an elite QB playing with a crappy cast and playing well. I don't know if that is because the crappy QB play we have had here for so long or if he is really a good QB. I want to find the answer.
2. I don't like or dislike Bradford, he is a quiet, reserved guy so I don't know if he beats baby seals in private or if he is a choirboy. I wish he had a little more fire in his belly. WHen he got pissed and left it did not surprise me that he did, just that he finally showed some emotion.
3. My defense of him is based on nothing more than looking at the big picture and refuting criticism based on situations he had no control over. I also point out hypocrisy such as folks whining about excuses for Bradford and then those sames folks already making excuses for Wentz before he throws a pass.

Many here and the beat writers and bloggers see one side of the whole Bradford thing because it stirs up the fans as if it is personal. They create stories out of comments made saying he really meant one thing, the more incendiary the better. I merely try to point out the absurdity of much of it.

I was looking forward to them drafting a defensive player high and building a huge, aggressive defense. Whoever the QB is I want it to be the best guy, it is that simple.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 13 2016, 09:00 PM) *
How about explaining to me how a player who got pissed about his situation and future changing from what he was promised


I'm still trying to work out what exactly Bradford was promised given that the only promise was a two year "prove it" deal when everyone and his dog knew we would be looking to take a mid-round QB to develop.

The fans are pissed off with Bradford because he didn't show enough last year to have enough credit in the bank to get away with demanding a trade as soon as he felt threatened, and had only just signed a very good deal. If this had been the last year of a four year deal during which he'd played well then we'd have been a lot more understanding.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 13 2016, 05:08 PM) *
I'm still trying to work out what exactly Bradford was promised given that the only promise was a two year "prove it" deal when everyone and his dog knew we would be looking to take a mid-round QB to develop.

The fans are pissed off with Bradford because he didn't show enough last year to have enough credit in the bank to get away with demanding a trade as soon as he felt threatened, and had only just signed a very good deal. If this had been the last year of a four year deal during which he'd played well then we'd have been a lot more understanding.


I am amazed that everyone here thinks his contract was anything other than a "prove you can be out guy" contract when you look ate the money...it is absurd. They are either the most inept FO in negotiations or they thought he was their guy but protected themselves in case he was not.

To me he showed a lot last year.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ May 13 2016, 09:28 AM) *
But Chancellor has a record of success and was a couple of years into his contract extension.

You have an amazing talent for ignoring the point. The POINT is that he just signed the contract. If the contract didn't say what he thought it should say, that's his problem and he has no basis to bitch.

Second, you also continue to completely ignore the fact that I keep telling you I like Bradford which doesn't mean I have to ignore that he screwed up. He's human like the rest of us ... maybe not Clark Kent, but he seems to find himself in a Kryptonite field and refuses to crawl out. laugh.gif

Take your meds or call the lady from the bar and relax. But please, stop scratching on the chalkboard. You lost. wink.gif


BTW, the lady at the bar giving her number has not been confirmed by credible sources. devil03.gif
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 13 2016, 04:06 PM) *
Fair enough

Here is what I think of Bradford and it may shock you:
1. I don't know if he is good or bad....I know what I saw out of him last year after he settled in looked like the play of an elite QB playing with a crappy cast and playing well. I don't know if that is because the crappy QB play we have had here for so long or if he is really a good QB. I want to find the answer.
2. I don't like or dislike Bradford, he is a quiet, reserved guy so I don't know if he beats baby seals in private or if he is a choirboy. I wish he had a little more fire in his belly. WHen he got pissed and left it did not surprise me that he did, just that he finally showed some emotion.
3. My defense of him is based on nothing more than looking at the big picture and refuting criticism based on situations he had no control over. I also point out hypocrisy such as folks whining about excuses for Bradford and then those sames folks already making excuses for Wentz before he throws a pass.

Many here and the beat writers and bloggers see one side of the whole Bradford thing because it stirs up the fans as if it is personal. They create stories out of comments made saying he really meant one thing, the more incendiary the better. I merely try to point out the absurdity of much of it.

I was looking forward to them drafting a defensive player high and building a huge, aggressive defense. Whoever the QB is I want it to be the best guy, it is that simple.


This is a very sensible statement.

While I probably rank near the bottom of the board in my opinions of Sam's skill and performance as an NFL QB, I don't have a problem with him as a person. Seems like a good guy.

I don't think what he did was stupid. I think his agent saying we were the second option and emphasizing how much THEY wanted to go to DEN, was really fucking stupid, but I was not surprised that that was the case.

And I'll go further to say I think DEN should have given up two 2nd's for him instead of a 1st and 3rd for Lynch. That team is built to win and for $7M for a look and a chance I think DEN should have. If he plays at 16-22nd best level that team can still go deep into playoffs with that D. Have him and Sanchez compete and go from there. If money was tight, make the Eagles take back Sanchez in the deal and maybe DEN kick in a 7th for the pain of doing that. Not sure what Fitz asking price is, but if he was close to $7M than I can see them getting him but rumor was he wanted Bradford money!!

His agents comments have done more harm to him than all he did up to that point.

If he is the best of the 3 QB in a fair competition he plays. If not he sits or gets cut. I'll give him the nod in a tie, but I have much less patience for his level of play than others. If he gets hurt, the next best guy plays. If we are out of the playoffs, the Kid plays every snap. Until then, unless the Kid is the best of the 3 QB's in the competition, he sits and waits.

Next year? We'll see. We'll know more about Sam, more about the other 2 QB's, more about our cap, more about the talent of our team. Those decisions can be made next off season.

I'm 51 years old and have never seen an Eagles championship. I have no plan on letting an under performing highly paid QB, an overpaid backup with two NFL starts, or a rookie newbie derailing any chance I have of seeing one this year. No time for favoritism. Best man plays.

This isn't that difficult.
Joegrane
If as expected, Sam is close to being the best of the three QBs or better, he has to start almost all of this season. They need to make him look good in order to maximize the return for him.

Playing the rookie in the final two meaningless games would not hurt Sam--unless the kid lights it up. However there is a decent chance that the kid will show his lack of experience and give up a pick 6 by underestimating the athleticism of an elite LB or DB.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 13 2016, 08:31 PM) *
...
If he is the best of the 3 QB in a fair competition he plays. If not he sits or gets cut. I'll give him the nod in a tie, but I have much less patience for his level of play than others. If he gets hurt, the next best guy plays. If we are out of the playoffs, the Kid plays every snap. Until then, unless the Kid is the best of the 3 QB's in the competition, he sits and waits.
...

Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 13 2016, 10:17 PM) *
I am amazed that everyone here thinks his contract was anything other than a "prove you can be out guy" contract when you look ate the money...it is absurd. They are either the most inept FO in negotiations or they thought he was their guy but protected themselves in case he was not.

To me he showed a lot last year.

I wouldn't say that Bradford showed a lot last year, but he showed enough promise for us to hope that he would play well in a new offense with improved OL play and the receivers getting their act together.

I can understand that Bradford has made his money and is now looking for the right long term environment, which no longer exists for him in Philadelphia given the move up for Wentz. However he must have been the only one to think that a two year deal was anything other than a "prove it" opportunity - hence his eagerness to get out of it when he recognised that he no longer has a long term future here unless Wentz is a complete bust even in practice.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 13 2016, 10:00 PM) *
If as expected, Sam is close to being the best of the three QBs or better, he has to start almost all of this season. They need to make him look good in order to maximize the return for him.

Playing the rookie in the final two meaningless games would not hurt Sam--unless the kid lights it up. However there is a decent chance that the kid will show his lack of experience and give up a pick 6 by underestimating the athleticism of an elite LB or DB.



"Close to the best" doesn't sit well with me. I will give him the nod it a tie, but not much else.

If he is close to beating Wentz out, with Daniel being a distant third, I think it likely that the Kid widens his lead over the season as he has more room for growth than the a 7th year pro.

I think chances are slim that will happen. I think his strongest competition comes from Daniel, and even then, I think Bradford is a favorite in a straight up fair competition.

But let them compete and see where the chips fall.

Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 14 2016, 06:21 AM) *
"Close to the best" doesn't sit well with me. I will give him the nod it a tie, but not much else.

If he is close to beating Wentz out, with Daniel being a distant third, I think it likely that the Kid widens his lead over the season as he has more room for growth than the a 7th year pro.

I think chances are slim that will happen. I think his strongest competition comes from Daniel, and even then, I think Bradford is a favorite in a straight up fair competition.

But let them compete and see where the chips fall.

I realize the triumvirate says they're committed to moving slowly with the rookie but I wonder if the rookie will cooperate. If what we're reading about him has any place in reality, his talents, determination, work ethic and intelligence may result in a mid-season job if Sammy Sleeves falters or is injured.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 14 2016, 07:03 AM) *
I realize the triumvirate says they're committed to moving slowly with the rookie but I wonder if the rookie will cooperate. If what we're reading about him has any place in reality, his talents, determination, work ethic and intelligence may result in a mid-season job if Sammy Sleeves falters or is injured.


While Wentz may be the QB of the future and his story is all warm and fuzzy, there is a reason that almost every scout and NFL team saw him as a developmental QB. I am sure he is a hard worker and hopefully he is a great QB but most of the stories from bloggers and the beat guys play on the fan's hopes for a savior. We will know soon when we see him go against better talent...keep your fingers crossed....
Joegrane
You are willing to just flush the draft pick down the tubes instead of giving Sam extra time to learn the system?

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 14 2016, 06:21 AM) *
"Close to the best" doesn't sit well with me. I will give him the nod it a tie, but not much else.

If he is close to beating Wentz out, with Daniel being a distant third, I think it likely that the Kid widens his lead over the season as he has more room for growth than the a 7th year pro.

I think chances are slim that will happen. I think his strongest competition comes from Daniel, and even then, I think Bradford is a favorite in a straight up fair competition.

But let them compete and see where the chips fall.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 14 2016, 09:54 AM) *
You are willing to just flush the draft pick down the tubes instead of giving Sam extra time to learn the system?


Yep.

I am not going to have a season threatened by some future draft pick that may or may not materialize. There are differing opinions of what that could be and if the value appreciates or depreciates over time.

I'm not favoring him for his salary

I'm not favoring him for future draft picks

I'm not favoring him for his #1 draft pick status.

None of it.

Show up, play and win the job. That's what we owe to all of the players who compete for a job every day and all of the fans who invest time money and heart into this team.

That being said, I do expect him to win a close competition for the starter's job, and for him to remain in place while healthy and while our playoff hopes are alive.

Show me.
Reality Fan
Sorry Mikey...if the competition is close with Daniel than he should be gone......Daniel is a slightly more athletic Pederson. He is terrible but somehow has an attitude. Bizarre for a 6 year backup (soon to be career). If it is close with Wentz than play the rookie.....but good luck with that.

What is your over/under for games Bradford throws for over 300 yards......could be tricky is your guru's offense.

It is really nice to see how quickly everyone suddenly thinks ol' Dougie and Howie are the cat's meow
Joegrane
I would not want to have to bet on the O/U 300yds because of Matthews' injury history and the lack of a true rushing RB behind him. They'll be using two 3rd down backs.

However if Matthews stays healthy, the improved O Line should allow them to run the ball and eat some clock.

We can't expect the inflated offensive numbers from Chip's high tempo offense.

However Howie is in the QB Sales biz this year. Would he remind Pederson to try to pad Sam's numbers somewhat?

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 14 2016, 07:12 PM) *
...
What is your over/under for games Bradford throws for over 300 yards......could be tricky is your guru's offense.
...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 14 2016, 06:12 PM) *
Sorry Mikey...if the competition is close with Daniel than he should be gone......Daniel is a slightly more athletic Pederson. He is terrible but somehow has an attitude. Bizarre for a 6 year backup (soon to be career). If it is close with Wentz than play the rookie.....but good luck with that.

What is your over/under for games Bradford throws for over 300 yards......could be tricky is your guru's offense.

It is really nice to see how quickly everyone suddenly thinks ol' Dougie and Howie are the cat's meow



How is someone like me who sees maybe 7 wins, or my criticism of his defense of the time management for KC thought of as Dougie being the cats meow?

Or my rating of this Eagles draft as an endorsement of Howie?

I think you were more entrenched in that camp than I.
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