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nephillymike
I ask this because this seems to be the sentiment on sports talk radio and TV shows.

For me, he doesn't owe me anything.

I understand his holdout and request for a trade.

I understand the Eagles denying that request, or not getting enough in return to grant that request.

All I want is for him to get on the field and win the starting job and to play at a much higher level than he has so far in his career.

We know the WR's are sub par.

We know it's a new head coach and coordinator and offensive system for the upteenth time.

We know there is a learnign curve for your teammates.

Man up and play ball.

No excuses.
Reality Fan
Actually these are, by far, the best WRs he has ever played with.
Zero
I was going to say the WRs have the potential to surprise. If Mathews holds the ball in the slot, Agholor makes a sophomore leap and Randle plays to his potential this would be a solid corps.
nd9kel
I'm very hopeful that Reuben Randle has a 1,000 yard season and wows us. He's never missed a game in his career. While his receptions dropped off last year he went from 3 td's to 8 td's year to year.

Wish Bradford hadn't given us the two week drama, but winning overcomes EVERYTHING.
HobbEs
No, I can't say it's changed. I take the Hinkie approach to Bradford in that he's an asset and has value to the team. The better he plays the more valuable he is and the return can be measured in wins and/or what he can fetch in a trade.
Pila
Nothing's changed. Fans will probably boo, but the lockerroom understands. And he's still the best QB on the team. So, no.
Phits
QUOTE (Pila @ May 10 2016, 10:34 AM) *
Nothing's changed. Fans will probably boo, but the lockerroom understands. And he's still the best QB on the team. So, no.

I'm not sure that the locker room understands. I think they are accepting of the situation, but based on what I heard Graham talking about the other day on the radio, they are as eager to start the Wentz era.
Pila
QUOTE (Phits @ May 10 2016, 03:41 PM) *
I'm not sure that the locker room understands. I think they are accepting of the situation, but based on what I heard Graham talking about the other day on the radio, they are as eager to start the Wentz era.

I don't know what Graham said, but the perceived "leaders" of the team all have echoed support for Bradford.
Phits
QUOTE (Pila @ May 10 2016, 10:52 AM) *
I don't know what Graham said, but the perceived "leaders" of the team all have echoed support for Bradford.

I think everybody agrees that Bradford offers the best opportunity to win (more games) next season than Daniels or Wentz. I am not sure if that is an indication of support.

QUOTE
If heís still on the team, he has to come to work and be the quarterback. Barwin also indicated that not only him, but the rest of the locker room is also excited, with the addition of Carson Wentz. Barwin drew to the conclusion, that the team really liked Wentz, in order to trade up for him, and itís exciting for the team to have their quarterback of the future.

D Rock
My opinion of him as a player hasn't changed. But my opinion of him as a person has. Clearly delusional, petulant, with a victim complex. I'll still root for him due to the laundry he's wearing, but I can't wait for the Wentz era to begin.

Pila
QUOTE (Phits @ May 10 2016, 04:08 PM) *
I think everybody agrees that Bradford offers the best opportunity to win (more games) next season than Daniels or Wentz. I am not sure if that is an indication of support.

Welcoming the rook to the team seems like a prudent thing to do by the locker room leadership. I don't think it comes at the expense of Bradford's status in the locker room though.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 10 2016, 11:26 AM) *
My opinion of him as a player hasn't changed. But my opinion of him as a person has. Clearly delusional, petulant, with a victim complex. I'll still root for him due to the laundry he's wearing, but I can't wait for the Wentz era to begin.


In 6 years he has never had any issues at all. You know nothing about the situation other than what the Eagles leak and from that he is public enemy number 1.

I think he handled it incorrectly but I also find it odd that a guy who has always been the consummate pro and teammate became that incensed that he blew a gasket....that tells me there is much more to the story.

That being said Wentz better be incredible because he is either cocky or naive from some of his comments and when your back up goes 7-0 when you get hurt it does not exactly speak well of the competition you played against.
JeeQ
Always thought he was a worthless garbage coward QB and all he did was prove to the world I was right... He's fleeced teams for hundreds of millions while never achieving a .500 winning PCT and never playing in a single playoff game... The fact Samantha is still on the team has made me a gigantic Wentz fan by default. I loved when he shitted on Samantha in the interview and I hope he's the franchise QB Philly has been waiting for
Reality Fan
QUOTE (JeeQ @ May 10 2016, 12:03 PM) *
Always thought he was a worthless garbage coward QB and all he did was prove to the world I was right... He's fleeced teams for hundreds of millions while never achieving a .500 winning PCT and never playing in a single playoff game... The fact Samantha is still on the team has made me a gigantic Wentz fan by default. I loved when he shitted on Samantha in the interview and I hope he's the franchise QB Philly has been waiting for


hmmm...where to begin.....so much stupidity...so little time...

First point: He fleeced a team? Really? Seems they drafted him...he did not solicit them and if you think the Rams were the team he wanted to go to you are even dumber than your post suggests

Second point: His first contract was for 78 million over 6 years.....even if you count the Eagles contract his guaranteed money still only takes him to that first threshold of 100 million....and did he fleece the Eagles into signing him or did they fleece him into thinking he might be their long term plan if he played well?

Third point: Have the Rams been in the playoffs or have a winning record in the last 12 years? Their problems are much bigger than their QB.

Fourth point: It is cute how you call him Samantha....very clever...but if you had to go through the rehabs he did you would realize what an idiot you sound like. You can question his ability as a QB but after witnessing the beating he took last year and throughout his career, questioning his toughness is absurd. Of course, for a tough guy like you it would be nothing.....

You are a prince.
Joegrane
It would have been interesting had he been picked up by Denver. I bet he would have been at least okay. Unfortunately we'll likely never know.

QUOTE (JeeQ @ May 10 2016, 12:03 PM) *
Always thought he was a worthless garbage coward QB and all he did was prove to the world I was right... He's fleeced teams for hundreds of millions while never achieving a .500 winning PCT and never playing in a single playoff game... The fact Samantha is still on the team has made me a gigantic Wentz fan by default. I loved when he shitted on Samantha in the interview and I hope he's the franchise QB Philly has been waiting for

D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 03:48 PM) *
In 6 years he has never had any issues at all. You know nothing about the situation other than what the Eagles leak and from that he is public enemy number 1.

I think he handled it incorrectly but I also find it odd that a guy who has always been the consummate pro and teammate became that incensed that he blew a gasket....that tells me there is much more to the story.

That being said Wentz better be incredible because he is either cocky or naive from some of his comments and when your back up goes 7-0 when you get hurt it does not exactly speak well of the competition you played against.

This isn't about Wentz. It's about an entitled, cry baby, who clearly thinks he's earned the right to be the face of the franchise when the vast majority of observers, inside the organization and out, think his prospects as a franchise quarterback are still questionable despite 6 years in the league.

I know as much "about the situation" as I need to formulate the judgement that he's a petulant child, lacking some testicular fortitude in the face of a highly drafted ROOKIE from North feaking Dakota.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 10 2016, 04:44 PM) *
This isn't about Wentz. It's about an entitled, cry baby, who clearly thinks he's earned the right to be the face of the franchise when the vast majority of observers, inside the organization and out, think his prospects as a franchise quarterback are still questionable despite 6 years in the league.

I know as much "about the situation" as I need to formulate the judgement that he's a petulant child, lacking some testicular fortitude in the face of a highly drafted ROOKIE from North feaking Dakota.



You miss the point. He was not just drafted from a little piss ant school. He was drafted expending a ridiculous sum of assets to do so. The writing is on the wall. Bradford made a business decision, a bad one, but it was nothing more or less. He did not whine in his absence. Moreover, his absence was from voluntary camp, a fact continually ignored. Much like the Eagles are not obligated to tell him their true plans, he is not obligated to be at voluntary camp. Now you can whine and bitch about him missing valuable time in a new offense but then you are no different than him being pissed about being misled. There are 2 sides to the contract. If you want to stand by one you need to stand by both.

I will say this again and the facts point it out...Of the 21 QBs that are paid in his salary range, all but one are currently their teams "franchise QB" or face of their team. Blame the Eagles, they paid him in that category.

Want to bitch about something...blame the Eagles for for having 3 of the 28 highest paid QBs on their roster.
Joegrane
Well said, I agree with you. Hopefully Barwin and others are going to make sure we don't hear anything whimpy from him going forward.

He should have a solid 2nd half after they all learn the system, especially behind the improved O Line and with more talent and depth at WR.

If Matthews gets hurt, two 3rd-down RBs will be maning the backfield. We could see a 60-40 pass-run ratio! AndyR will be proud of his boy : )

We have not discussed the impact of the loss of Chip's offensive pace. However, the loss of that pace should have a positive impact on the D. That should help field position somewhat.

Bradford will be in a position to audible at the line more than with Chip. Maybe Sam can make some things happen with his intellect.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 9 2016, 09:52 PM) *
I ask this because this seems to be the sentiment on sports talk radio and TV shows.

For me, he doesn't owe me anything.

I understand his holdout and request for a trade.

I understand the Eagles denying that request, or not getting enough in return to grant that request.

All I want is for him to get on the field and win the starting job and to play at a much higher level than he has so far in his career.

We know the WR's are sub par.

We know it's a new head coach and coordinator and offensive system for the upteenth time.

We know there is a learnign curve for your teammates.

Man up and play ball.

No excuses.



D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 09:07 PM) *
You miss the point. He was not just drafted from a little piss ant school. He was drafted expending a ridiculous sum of assets to do so. The writing is on the wall. Bradford made a business decision, a bad one, but it was nothing more or less. He did not whine in his absence. Moreover, his absence was from voluntary camp, a fact continually ignored. Much like the Eagles are not obligated to tell him their true plans, he is not obligated to be at voluntary camp. Now you can whine and bitch about him missing valuable time in a new offense but then you are no different than him being pissed about being misled. There are 2 sides to the contract. If you want to stand by one you need to stand by both.

I will say this again and the facts point it out...Of the 21 QBs that are paid in his salary range, all but one are currently their teams "franchise QB" or face of their team. Blame the Eagles, they paid him in that category.

Want to bitch about something...blame the Eagles for for having 3 of the 28 highest paid QBs on their roster.

No, sir. You miss the point. This isn't about Wentz (AGAIN) or the costs associated with getting him (or ANY player). This is about an entitled little bitch, being ... well ... and entitled little bitch.

I don't care about time missed by Sam. I don't care whether or not he was misled. Although, I do NOT believe any organization has the responsibility to share their long term plans with a player on a 2 year contract.

This is ONLY about a player who, in my opinion, shows a shocking lack of humility and self awareness as it pertains to his value and perception around the league. He attempted a power play when he had exactly zero power. It's stupid under any filter you chose to look at it. Even the "Iggles Hater" filter you've chosen.

And to bitch about how much of Jeff Luries $$$ is tied up in quarterbacks is simply a waste of time. It's not my money. I don't give a rat's ass about how much it costs. I only care about quality quarterbacking.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 10 2016, 05:21 PM) *
No, sir. You miss the point. This isn't about Wentz (AGAIN) or the costs associated with getting him (or ANY player). This is about an entitled little bitch, being ... well ... and entitled little bitch.

I don't care about time missed by Sam. I don't care whether or not he was misled. Although, I do NOT believe any organization has the responsibility to share their long term plans with a player on a 2 year contract.

This is ONLY about a player who, in my opinion, shows a shocking lack of humility and self awareness as it pertains to his value and perception around the league. He attempted a power play when he had exactly zero power. It's stupid under any filter you chose to look at it. Even the "Iggles Hater" filter you've chosen.

And to bitch about how much of Jeff Luries $$$ is tied up in quarterbacks is simply a waste of time. It's not my money. I don't give a rat's ass about how much it costs. I only care about quality quarterbacking.


Ok...lets focus on your main point....you don't care that he was misled but you do care that he was not there for camps that are VOLUNTARY...you understand that word, correct? That means, like the Eagles do not bear the responsibility to share their plans (as you said) he has no responsibility to attend anything other than that for which is contractually obligated to attend. See how that works both ways? Funny how all the people that think he should be there miss that little part.

Now, as far as his "shocking lack of humility" funny how getting paid 17.5 a year will do that for you and funny how that little morsel also sets his value for him...the Eagles did that.

I have said it was the wrong move for him but he rectified it by coming back to, wait for it. VOLUNTARY camp.

I don't hate the Eagles. I think Howie booted this whole situation, overpaid Bradford AND Daniels and wasted a bunch of valuable picks that could have helped this team be very good for the next 3 years. I am just not some pom pom waving nitwit that has gotten all excited that they went crazy to get the 2nd pick for a guy many thought was the 3rd best QB in the draft. I like Mike Mayock but he has been grossly wrong many times. When I see Hugh Jackson not push for Wentz or Goff, that tells me something.

But back to Bradford....it is the first time he has done anything other than being the consummate pro, show me one instance when he has been anything but. He came back which surprised me but still you whine about him. The only entitled whiny bitches in this situation are the fans who think that Bradford owes them something.
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 10 2016, 10:26 AM) *
My opinion of him as a player hasn't changed. But my opinion of him as a person has. Clearly delusional, petulant, with a victim complex. I'll still root for him due to the laundry he's wearing, but I can't wait for the Wentz era to begin.



I really don't have a problem with what he tried to do.

Maybe my expectations were lower, but he idd what he tried to do and even though the Eagles protested a little, you know if they got a 1st round pick he was gone.

No harm no foul to me. He didn't miss anything meaningful.

That being said, I won't have any patience for him not being the best QB on this team after a fair competition.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 10 2016, 08:42 PM) *
Maybe my expectations were lower, but he idd what he tried to do and even though the Eagles protested a little, you know if they got a 1st round pick he was gone.

No harm no foul to me.

Sorry Mikey I think there was some harm. With the draft as close as it was, I think the timing was poor. He decreased his value by publicly demanding a trade. He should have bitched and moaned in private, like the rumors suggest he has done his entire football life #primadonna
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 10 2016, 07:57 PM) *
Sorry Mikey I think there was some harm. With the draft as close as it was, I think the timing was poor. He decreased his value by publicly demanding a trade. He should have bitched and moaned in private, like the rumors suggest he has done his entire football life #primadonna



I don't know Phits.

What reason would he and his agent have to not have gone to the Eagles privately first?

By going private, you allow the team to save face and you create a situation that will likely make it more possible for the team that is interested in you, to give enough value to the Eagles to make the trade happen. You also get the team's blessing to find a trade partner and you have a hand in deciding who you talk to for trade destinations.

It would be stupid NOT to go private and a rookie move by a seasoned pro agent.

I think they did go to the team and either the team outright denied them, or said that the pick in return had to be something unreasonable given Bradford's talent.

It was at that point that they went public, knowing that the trade window was closing, desperately trying to get a better future.

They had a chance to go to Denver (if you believe what the media said). If that's the case, do you blame him? I don't.

Denver didn't like him enough to pay the Eagles asking price. Rumor was we were offered CB Roby and a 4th. If it was me, I would have taken it in a heart beat. But they paid $11M for Sam to play here and it was the team's right to decide if that was enough. There's very little doubt in my mind that if DEN offered the 31st pick, Sam would be here no more. But DEN made the decision based on their opinion of Bradford that trading up to get the 3rd best QB in the draft and paying him 9.4M over 4 years plus a 3rd round pick was a better option than paying Sam $7M for this year for a look see, with $17M to follow if they kept him next year. That too speaks volumes, especially given Denver's win now mode and the fact they have a guy who backed Sam up playing QB for them.

C'est la vie.

Move on. Compete. Best QB plays. Win games.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 05:05 PM) *
I have said it was the wrong move for him but he rectified it by coming back to, wait for it. VOLUNTARY camp.



Wrong move?

What would you have wanted him to do?

You weren't serious about the retirement option we discussed at the bar were you?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 10 2016, 08:57 PM) *
Sorry Mikey I think there was some harm. With the draft as close as it was, I think the timing was poor. He decreased his value by publicly demanding a trade. He should have bitched and moaned in private, like the rumors suggest he has done his entire football life #primadonna


What rumors? Christ, even Marcus Hayes and Jaworski, who both ripped him, were on TV tonight talking about what an absolute great guy he is. Hayes even corrected the host and said that Bradford is such a great guy that he will definitely help Wentz get acclimated to the NFL, he is that good a guy. Hayes was emphatic about it.

Here is a little blast from the past for your Prima Donna theory:

With Rams down 24-3 against the Packers, I do wonder why Bradford wasn't taken out of the game. Of course, it's Bradford's team too, and he isn't the type that would be willing to sit on the sidelines. It would seem like kind of a prima donna move.


http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/10/17/24...gh-ankle-sprain

Who was the rumor source? You dad?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:18 PM) *
What rumors? Christ, even Marcus Hayes and Jaworski, who both ripped him, were on TV tonight talking about what an absolute great guy he is. Hayes even corrected the host and said that Bradford is such a great guy that he will definitely help Wentz get acclimated to the NFL, he is that good a guy. Hayes was emphatic about it.



I saw that.

Hayes rips on Bradford early on, and then comes right out and says Fadool is wrong very wrong about Bradford.

She should have gave it right back to him. Not that Sam wouldn't do the professional thing, but for him to have a bunch of bad things to say and then turn on her, I thought that was a little out of line. I don't know. Maybe I was just focusing too much on the bumps in the front of her emerald green dress..........................................

Joegrane
I think Denver will pay for their mistake. Of course I don't know what Howie was asking for Sam.

Sam's performance in the second half of the season will have fans in Denver criticizing their front office.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 10 2016, 11:16 PM) *
...
Denver didn't like him enough to pay the Eagles asking price. ...That too speaks volumes, especially given Denver's win now mode and the fact they have a guy who backed Sam up playing QB for them.
...

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 10 2016, 11:23 PM) *
I saw that.

Hayes rips on Bradford early on, and then comes right out and says Fadool is wrong very wrong about Bradford.

She should have gave it right back to him. Not that Sam wouldn't do the professional thing, but for him to have a bunch of bad things to say and then turn on her, I thought that was a little out of line. I don't know. Maybe I was just focusing too much on the bumps in the front of her emerald green dress..........................................


Yes...he caught me off guard with that...he really was adamant about it. I had always heard he is a great guy and teammate which is why I have defended that part about him being a bitch.

She does nothing for me though....now the woman that covers the Sixers for them...now we are talking....except she is way too young....lol
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 10 2016, 11:46 PM) *
I think Denver will pay for their mistake. Of course I don't know what Howie was asking for Sam.

Sam's performance in the second half of the season will have fans in Denver criticizing their front office.


I think we all would like to know what Howie asked for Bradford. Whatever it was it prompted Denver to make the statement that no one would be able to trade for him so it must have been high. It is odd how no one knows....beat writers have guessed but right now the ones who have are Howie's new buddies.

I have looked around everywhere...nothing other than the price was too high.
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 10 2016, 11:46 PM) *
I think Denver will pay for their mistake. Of course I don't know what Howie was asking for Sam.

Sam's performance in the second half of the season will have fans in Denver criticizing their front office.

I'm not so sure about that. Elway won back-to-back SBs for them as a QB and another as a GM. I think he's earned the benefit of doubt.

That the Eagles didn't trade Bradford tells me they believe in their QB plan. Part of the plan, IMO is that Bradford will play well in 2016 and increase his trade value. They spent a lot to get Wentz and I'm sure they want to increase the odds of recapturing some of that.

I realize most pundits are picking the Eagles to be third or fourth in the division. I tend to agree, but it looks like the Eagles don't. It's not that I think they're that far off of Dallas and Washington, but learning new systems will hold them back.

That said, if Bradford leads an underdog team into the playoffs, what happens to his trade value? I think that's the Eagles thinking.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
Ok...lets focus on your main point....you don't care that he was misled

To be clear, I don't believe he was misled. Again, they have no obligation to share their long term plans with a player being offered a 2 year deal. (any player for that matter)
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
but you do care that he was not there for camps that are VOLUNTARY...

I care that he missed valuable time to learn a new system and a new coaching staff. It shows a "me first" mentality that is misplaced in any player of any team sport, but especially a starting QB.
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
you understand that word, correct?

You just can't avoid any chance to be a condescending little dick, can you? I've never heard the word voluntary before. I live under a pile of rocks. You are so cool. Can I be like you?
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
I have said it was the wrong move for him but he rectified it by coming back to, wait for it. VOLUNTARY camp.

Nice, say the same thing, but wrap it as a new idea. You must have been hell in a logics class.
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
I don't hate the Eagles. I think Howie booted this whole situation, overpaid Bradford AND Daniels and wasted a bunch of valuable picks that could have helped this team be very good for the next 3 years. I am just not some pom pom waving nitwit that has gotten all excited that they went crazy to get the 2nd pick for a guy many thought was the 3rd best QB in the draft. I like Mike Mayock but he has been grossly wrong many times. When I see Hugh Jackson not push for Wentz or Goff, that tells me something.

No you don't "hate" the iggles, but you spend a great deal of time blathering on about how much smarter you are than the professionals who run an actual NFL franchise.
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
But back to Bradford....

Oh, Goodie.
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
it is the first time he has done anything other than being the consummate pro, show me one instance when he has been anything but.

Does a first time drunk driver get a pass because it's his first time?
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
He came back which surprised me but still you whine about him.

I'm not whining. I've just adjusted my perception of him. He's more like you, than like me. Which is to say... "he's a self important little dick." (see what I did there?)
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 10 2016, 10:05 PM) *
The only entitled whiny bitches in this situation are the fans who think that Bradford owes them something.

I've never said, nor implied that he owes me a god damn thing. But he does owe something to his team, and an organization that's paying him handsomely to play fucking quarterback.

'ta
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 11 2016, 12:55 PM) *
To be clear, I don't believe he was misled. Again, they have no obligation to share their long term plans with a player being offered a 2 year deal. (any player for that matter)

I care that he missed valuable time to learn a new system and a new coaching staff. It shows a "me first" mentality that is misplaced in any player of any team sport, but especially a starting QB.

You just can't avoid any chance to be a condescending little dick, can you? I've never heard the word voluntary before. I live under a pile of rocks. You are so cool. Can I be like you?

Nice, say the same thing, but wrap it as a new idea. You must have been hell in a logics class.

No you don't "hate" the iggles, but you spend a great deal of time blathering on about how much smarter you are than the professionals who run an actual NFL franchise.

Oh, Goodie.

Does a first time drunk driver get a pass because it's his first time?

I'm not whining. I've just adjusted my perception of him. He's more like you, than like me. Which is to say... "he's a self important dick. (see what I did there?)

I've never said, nor implied that he owes me a god damn thing. But he does owe something to his team, and an organization that's paying him handsomely to play fucking quarterback.

Fuck Face is afraid to compete for a job that's essentially been handed to him.

'ta


Having you call anyone condescending is like having the pope calling someone catholic.

But aside from pot calling the kettle black, lets focus on your hypocrisy.
You think that the Eagles are not obligated to share their plans but a player is obligated to honor something not stipulated in his contract. Do you work for free? While showing up for the voluntary portions of camp is a good thing and recommended for players with a chance of not making the team it is certainly not like they are going to cut him if he doesn't show up and why would he show up if he is not happy with the way things played out? Cox is still not in and Sproles has missed several sessions. I guess to appease your sorry ass he should attend? And what does he owe a team that is planning on moving on from him? He owes them only to be present for what he is paid to do. Anything beyond that is for him to decide, not you or I.

As far as the idiotic "you know more than guys who run an NFL franchise"...seriously? Have you ever read anything that you write? Again...pot...kettle....get it?

And you equate him not showing up to voluntary OTAs as a drunk driver? I knew you were a pompous blowhard but now you use a criminal analogy? Great work...really fits...idiot.

I agree, he is nothing like you. He is a good guy, funny you should call anyone self important....you set the bar in that department.
Now go back to staring at your picture and telling yourself what a smart guy you are....
Pila
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 10 2016, 04:26 PM) *
My opinion of him as a player hasn't changed. But my opinion of him as a person has. Clearly delusional, petulant, with a victim complex. I'll still root for him due to the laundry he's wearing, but I can't wait for the Wentz era to begin.

I think you're being entirely too hard on him.

I think the 2-year-deal was sold in the faith that the organization were reasonably reluctant to sign a long-term contract considering his injury history, but with emphasis that they'd consider a long-term extension on account of some playing consistency, perhaps indicating that a commitment to franchise status was contingent on staying healthy.

The moves dedicated to drafting Wentz was a different message. One that revealed that Bradford was all but a placeholder for the real Franchise QB. That prompted Bradford to look for another opportunity where they'd be more willing to commit to longer term.

To me, that's not so incredibly horrible of a character flaw. Seemed prudent from his perspective to give it a try to find a better solution for him. Didn't work out, so he is now back with the realization that playing his best under the current contract is in his best interest. I'm not sure I would have done it any differently. Granted, I'm not as morally upstanding as some of you, but Santa infrequently gives me coal for Christmas.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 11 2016, 05:13 PM) *
Having you call anyone condescending is like having the pope calling someone catholic.

But aside from pot calling the kettle black, lets focus on your hypocrisy.
You think that the Eagles are not obligated to share their plans but a player is obligated to honor something not stipulated in his contract. Do you work for free? While showing up for the voluntary portions of camp is a good thing and recommended for players with a chance of not making the team it is certainly not like they are going to cut him if he doesn't show up and why would he show up if he is not happy with the way things played out? Cox is still not in and Sproles has missed several sessions. I guess to appease your sorry ass he should attend? And what does he owe a team that is planning on moving on from him? He owes them only to be present for what he is paid to do. Anything beyond that is for him to decide, not you or I.

As far as the idiotic "you know more than guys who run an NFL franchise"...seriously? Have you ever read anything that you write? Again...pot...kettle....get it?

And you equate him not showing up to voluntary OTAs as a drunk driver? I knew you were a pompous blowhard but now you use a criminal analogy? Great work...really fits...idiot.

I agree, he is nothing like you. He is a good guy, funny you should call anyone self important....you set the bar in that department.
Now go back to staring at your picture and telling yourself what a smart guy you are....

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

A little dick says what?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 11 2016, 02:06 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

A little dick says what?


and if the rest of your posts did not make you seem like a small child you wrapped it up for the prosecution nicely....well done.

always nice to debate an adult, if there is one close by please let him use your laptop.

wink.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ May 11 2016, 02:03 PM) *
I think you're being entirely too hard on him.

I think the 2-year-deal was sold in the faith that the organization were reasonably reluctant to sign a long-term contract considering his injury history, but with emphasis that they'd consider a long-term extension on account of some playing consistency, perhaps indicating that a commitment to franchise status was contingent on staying healthy.

The moves dedicated to drafting Wentz was a different message. One that revealed that Bradford was all but a placeholder for the real Franchise QB. That prompted Bradford to look for another opportunity where they'd be more willing to commit to longer term.

To me, that's not so incredibly horrible of a character flaw. Seemed prudent from his perspective to give it a try to find a better solution for him. Didn't work out, so he is now back with the realization that playing his best under the current contract is in his best interest. I'm not sure I would have done it any differently. Granted, I'm not as morally upstanding as some of you, but Santa infrequently gives me coal for Christmas.


Thank you for the sanity...I did not think it was that tough to understand but some here apparently have moral high ground that you and I can't reach.

The hardest part to understand for me is the one way street many here see in the responsibility department. Somehow Bradford is obligated to appear for voluntary camps regardless of any circumstances but the Eagles have no responsibility to share their future plans with him. You can't stand by one side or the other. Either both sides have a responsibility or neither side does. It really is that simple. Nowhere in the contract does it say that the Eagles need to share their long term plan, I agree, but also nowhere does it say that he is obligated to appear for voluntary workouts because there is a new coach and a new scheme and they really want to get a head start and it would make the fans happy. Why should he care about the fans when he will be elsewhere in a year or 2?
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 11 2016, 07:24 PM) *
Thank you for the sanity...I did not think it was that tough to understand but some here apparently have moral high ground that you and I can't reach.

The hardest part to understand for me is the one way street many here see in the responsibility department. Somehow Bradford is obligated to appear for voluntary camps regardless of any circumstances but the Eagles have no responsibility to share their future plans with him. You can't stand by one side or the other. Either both sides have a responsibility or neither side does. It really is that simple. Nowhere in the contract does it say that the Eagles need to share their long term plan, I agree, but also nowhere does it say that he is obligated to appear for voluntary workouts because there is a new coach and a new scheme and they really want to get a head start and it would make the fans happy. Why should he care about the fans when he will be elsewhere in a year or 2?

There are athletes that have peculiarities that are simply not entirely likeable on the surface. For me, at least, Bradford's reaction is one of the least significant in terms of perceived character flaws. Another, is a TD celebration.

But others see it differently. It happens from time to time.
nd9kel
n/m
nephillymike
FWIW, I don't remember any thought of the voluntary camp being insignificant in Mathis situation last year.

It was very significant from the front office to the coaching staff to his teammates.

I know it did go on longer, but he did get cut because of it, and we, Peters and Kelce were stuck in the after math.
Joegrane
I wonder if Matthis knew there was an opening in Denver and was trying to get booted by Chip. For some guys the opportunity to make a deep playoff run is more attractive than the extra $. Otherwise his request was so insane.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 11 2016, 08:35 PM) *
FWIW, I don't remember any thought of the voluntary camp being insignificant in Mathis situation last year.

It was very significant from the front office to the coaching staff to his teammates.

I know it did go on longer, but he did get cut because of it, and we, Peters and Kelce were stuck in the after math.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 11 2016, 08:35 PM) *
FWIW, I don't remember any thought of the voluntary camp being insignificant in Mathis situation last year.

It was very significant from the front office to the coaching staff to his teammates.

I know it did go on longer, but he did get cut because of it, and we, Peters and Kelce were stuck in the after math.


That and he demanded a trade as well...they should have released Bradford as well....especially now that it is clear or reasonably clear that the Eagles decided to ask for a bounty to trade the "entitled loser".....but I guess that is his fault as well.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 11 2016, 08:14 PM) *
That and he demanded a trade as well...they should have released Bradford as well....especially now that it is clear or reasonably clear that the Eagles decided to ask for a bounty to trade the "entitled loser".....but I guess that is his fault as well.


I don't know if two seconds, one being the last pick in that round, is a bounty.

KC gave up two 2nd's for Smith and I don't think SF had $11M of SB invested in him.

DEN gave up the 31st pick and a third to draft the 3rd best QB with a ton of question marks. Total cost was 724 draft trade points.

If they gave us this year's 2nd (#63 = 276 points) and next year's 2nd (assume mid round = #47 = 430 points) a total of 706 points. Not a stretch to say the SB champs '17 2nd would be cheaper than that.

They gave away more to get Lynch. I think that's more of a statement on Bradford than the Eagles asking price, since they thought nothing of giving away more for a kid with no experience. Sure Bradford was more expensive at $7M, but Lynch at 9.5M for his deal isn't chicken scratch. And this was a team in win now mode with Bradford's backup in the starter spot.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 11 2016, 09:44 PM) *
I don't know if two seconds, one being the last pick in that round, is a bounty.

KC gave up two 2nd's for Smith and I don't think SF had $11M of SB invested in him.

DEN gave up the 31st pick and a third to draft the 3rd best QB with a ton of question marks. Total cost was 724 draft trade points.

If they gave us this year's 2nd (#63 = 276 points) and next year's 2nd (assume mid round = #47 = 430 points) a total of 706 points. Not a stretch to say the SB champs '17 2nd would be cheaper than that.

They gave away more to get Lynch. I think that's more of a statement on Bradford than the Eagles asking price, since they thought nothing of giving away more for a kid with no experience. Sure Bradford was more expensive at $7M, but Lynch at 9.5M for his deal isn't chicken scratch. And this was a team in win now mode with Bradford's backup in the starter spot.


As usual you look at things in a vacuum.....Denver has holes to fill.....that makes their draft picks far more valuable to them than they appear to you. 2 second round picks are worth more to them now than they were to SF then.

But besides that...if they were willing to part with a 2nd round pick and the Eagles asked more do you think that was a wise move, particularly if Pederson starts Wentz of Mr. Backup this year?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 11 2016, 09:52 PM) *
As usual you look at things in a vacuum.....Denver has holes to fill.....that makes their draft picks far more valuable to them than they appear to you. 2 second round picks are worth more to them now than they were to SF then.

But besides that...if they were willing to part with a 2nd round pick and the Eagles asked more do you think that was a wise move, particularly if Pederson starts Wentz of Mr. Backup this year?


That's tough for me to say.

What was Lurie's opinion on the issue? He dished out $11M in SB to Sam PLUS more guaranteed money to a backup QB than all of the guaranteed money to backup QB's in the league COMBINED!!

If the boss says I need a big return or else, you get a big return.

Personally, I view it as sunk costs and I would have taken Roby and a 4th but I don't think much of Sam's ability.

That being said, I have no problem with all of these assets being on my team this year to try to make this team the best it can be.

I play the person who wins the starting job until we're out of the playoffs. Then I play the Kid. If Daniel wins the job and gets hurt or Bradford wins it and gets hurt, I bring the other veteran in until we're out of the playoffs.

If we stay in contention all year, fine by me. I'm 51 and have never seen an Eagles championship and if it costs our team a few mil more in QB assets, so be it. It's better than all of those years sitting in the cap bank, unused.

It's not a vacuum at all. DEN knew they had two choices: use two picks on Lynch or use two picks on Sam. It was two picks and Lynch that was more expensive. They chose Lynch. I would have chosen Sam if I were them as I think very little of Lynch's ability to help them win this year.

Is Sam worth more in a trade next year?? We'll see. I got a guy that's says he'll be top 12 in the NFL, and if this guy is right, he will be worth more next year!!
Reality Fan
If he is top 12 then don't you think the fans will be up in arms to keep him?

Now on to your error.....Lynch was the cheaper option.....Bradford would have cost them picks AND a lot of money in year 2, especially if he plays well. Lynch will occupy much less cap room. I need to get you looking at the big picture.

What is going to be funny is hearing all the anget if Lynch turns out to be a better QB than Wentz....

I see things differently on playing Bradford. If he is not your QB for the entire season you have really fucked up. H ewill be worth nothing or very little in a trade next year. You almost have to play him and give him every chance to succeed or you have really missed the mark with your "plan".
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 12 2016, 12:05 AM) *
If he is top 12 then don't you think the fans will be up in arms to keep him?

Now on to your error.....Lynch was the cheaper option.....Bradford would have cost them picks AND a lot of money in year 2, especially if he plays well. Lynch will occupy much less cap room. I need to get you looking at the big picture.

What is going to be funny is hearing all the anget if Lynch turns out to be a better QB than Wentz....

I see things differently on playing Bradford. If he is not your QB for the entire season you have really fucked up. H ewill be worth nothing or very little in a trade next year. You almost have to play him and give him every chance to succeed or you have really missed the mark with your "plan".

First ... top 12 falls right in the area of average. Would you vote to keep an average QB when you have the #2 pick you paid a lot for waiting to play?

Second ... every draft pick is a gamble. I agree that Lynch is cheaper in year two, but what other players will be lost by that time. This is a "do it now" league in that respect. They have the defense, key players on offense and the mojo to potentially win their fourth SB, second back-to-back. If the odds are better with Sam, and the consensus is that Lynch won't be ready for two or three years who do you go with?

This is why fans don't know shit. Even the experts don't know shit, it's all calculated risk.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 12 2016, 06:05 AM) *
First ... top 12 falls right in the area of average. Would you vote to keep an average QB when you have the #2 pick you paid a lot for waiting to play?

Second ... every draft pick is a gamble. I agree that Lynch is cheaper in year two, but what other players will be lost by that time. This is a "do it now" league in that respect. They have the defense, key players on offense and the mojo to potentially win their fourth SB, second back-to-back. If the odds are better with Sam, and the consensus is that Lynch won't be ready for two or three years who do you go with?

This is why fans don't know shit. Even the experts don't know shit, it's all calculated risk.


ummm...first....top twelve means he is in the top third of QBs....if you were a teacher I would be scared...lol

Second, Denver's issue is that they will continue to lose players that become too expensive to resign...that is the issue with winning, ask Seattle. Denver allows themselves cap room and the ability to restock at positions of need.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 11 2016, 11:05 PM) *
If he is top 12 then don't you think the fans will be up in arms to keep him?

Now on to your error.....Lynch was the cheaper option.....Bradford would have cost them picks AND a lot of money in year 2, especially if he plays well. Lynch will occupy much less cap room. I need to get you looking at the big picture.

What is going to be funny is hearing all the anget if Lynch turns out to be a better QB than Wentz....

I see things differently on playing Bradford. If he is not your QB for the entire season you have really fucked up. H ewill be worth nothing or very little in a trade next year. You almost have to play him and give him every chance to succeed or you have really missed the mark with your "plan".


True the cost of Sam's compensation is higher, but if he plays well, after he was traded there, they can sign him to a much cap friendlier deal to lessen the impact of year two.

They wanted to give up more in draft picks for Lynch, than they did for Sam. It's a sad statement and hard to take I guess, but it is not the end of the world. He has the pole position in what should be a very winnable QB competition and if he plays well, he will get paid well next year, either here or elsewhere. If he doesn't, he is in backup mode and will still make decent coin.

Condon's statement today spoke volumes. "We had an opportunity to play for a very good football team for a long while (DEN). The trade didn't work out so we took the next best opportunity out there (PHI)". I don't have a problem with it. However, most guys at the Linc may not cherish being the second option for a career below average QB.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 12 2016, 10:47 AM) *
ummm...first....top twelve means he is in the top third of QBs....if you were a teacher I would be scared...lol

Second, Denver's issue is that they will continue to lose players that become too expensive to resign...that is the issue with winning, ask Seattle. Denver allows themselves cap room and the ability to restock at positions of need.



If he's top twelve, I am buying wings and beers again!!

However, it will probably be a very enjoyable season so that's fine by me.

Top twelve can get us to the dance Z. Not by himself, but with decent supporting play.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 12 2016, 11:47 AM) *
ummm...first....top twelve means he is in the top third of QBs....if you were a teacher I would be scared...lol

Second, Denver's issue is that they will continue to lose players that become too expensive to resign...that is the issue with winning, ask Seattle. Denver allows themselves cap room and the ability to restock at positions of need.
I guess we need to define "average." I think you're a bit more liberal in grading than I am though. For me, the top 25% are good, the bottom 25% are bad and the middle 50% are average.

In case your memory is as challenged as mine is, I like Sam and think he can do well in this offense but I think mikey is right when he says that his performance to date is below average. I think top 12 is a projection that I don't disagree with, but he still needs to prove it.

Second, Denver has the players now to make a second run ... except QB. Sam would have given them a better chance to take advantage of what they have now. Would they have been able to trade for Bradford at $7 million and then draft Lynch? A QB for now and a QB for the future. Wait ... that's what Howie did except for more $. biggrin.gif

Now you can go to your safe place and comfort your fears. devil03.gif laugh.gif
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