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nephillymike
Many times we have heard folks pointing for Sam's very good 7 game stretch last year as an indication of how well he can do going forward.

I just heard about 1/2 hr ago on WIP that a source (I think BGN?) did an analysis of the best 7 game stretches of all starting NFL QB's last year and Bradford's best 7 game stretch ranked 21st among the best 7 game stretches of each starting QB last year.

His best 7 games = 21st best
His overall season = 26th best

He is who he is.

Get him in, have an open competition, play the QB who wins the competition up until the point that we are eliminated from the playoffs, and then play the kid. If we're in playoff contention through the end of the year, then the kid sits the entire year, unless he wins the QB competition for the starting job. It isn't that tough a decision.
nd9kel
They weren't playing with Sam's receivers or line....badda boom.
nephillymike
QUOTE (nd9kel @ May 8 2016, 08:52 PM) *
They weren't playing with Sam's receivers or line....badda boom.



You are here until Thursday, try the veal.....................................
Reality Fan
Old news and discussed here already....I realize that when you get to your advanced age you forget things.....but seriously?

and he also set franchise records for completions and completion %...whoopee doo (I know, commence hypocrisy by making excuses why he did....excuses only work one way with you folks...)

Mikey...did Sammy sleep with the wife or what? If I am his cousin you must be the guy he beat up and stole lunch money from....sheezzz..

and you thought he would get 18 million....don't think the irony is lost....you thought he would get 18 million and yet think no other teams wanted him....strange ideas indeed....lololol
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 8 2016, 10:29 PM) *
Old news and discussed here already....I realize that when you get to your advanced age you forget things.....but seriously?

and he also set franchise records for completions and completion %...whoopee doo (I know, commence hypocrisy by making excuses why he did....excuses only work one way with you folks...)

Mikey...did Sammy sleep with the wife or what? If I am his cousin you must be the guy he beat up and stole lunch money from....sheezzz..

and you thought he would get 18 million....don't think the irony is lost....you thought he would get 18 million and yet think no other teams wanted him....strange ideas indeed....lololol



As I said yesterday, if he comes in and wins the job in a fair competition, I will cheer for him like he was McNabb or Cunningham. If we're out the playoffs, then I may want to see the kid, but up until then, I'd be fine if he wins the job. I wish we had better, but I'm OK with it. I want no part in him being handed the job.

Also as I said yesterday, I thought we may have bid against ourselves. Howie has given people a lot of money this off season. I figured he'd get slightly better than average starting QB money in the ever increasing salary cap since previous deals were done. The reality was that the 17.5M was much closer to what I thought ($18M), then to what you thought he would get. You did a good job realizing there weren't many teams that would be bidding for his services, thus the reason for your "under" winning bet. The irony goes both ways. You'd thought he'd get $14M per year, yet teams would yearn for him as their starting QB!!

Now behave or I'll get that lady from yesterday to fight my battles!! biggrin.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 8 2016, 11:51 PM) *
As I said yesterday, if he comes in and wins the job in a fair competition, I will cheer for him like he was McNabb or Cunningham. If we're out the playoffs, then I may want to see the kid, but up until then, I'd be fine if he wins the job. I wish we had better, but I'm OK with it. I want no part in him being handed the job.

Also as I said yesterday, I thought we may have bid against ourselves. Howie has given people a lot of money this off season. I figured he'd get slightly better than average starting QB money in the ever increasing salary cap since previous deals were done. The reality was that the 17.5M was much closer to what I thought ($18M), then to what you thought he would get. You did a good job realizing there weren't many teams that would be bidding for his services, thus the reason for your "under" winning bet. The irony goes both ways. You'd thought he'd get $14M per year, yet teams would yearn for him as their starting QB!!

Now behave or I'll get that lady from yesterday to fight my battles!! biggrin.gif


I thought he would get less because there were no teams that would pursue him....if the Eagles paid him as much as they did then either teams were interested in him or we are in worse trouble then we thought.......remember, Howie is on great terms with all the other teams...if you forget he will tell you. I admitted I was wrong and that teams apparently were interested in him...his agent failed him by not predicting that Howie was a little devious prick. Now your new excuse (that thing you hate other people to use) is that Howie gave away a lot of money to other players but where you miss the mark is that he gave away that money in amounts not uncommon for the position for players that are not the franchise player at that position. In Bradford he gave him money only average for the franchise face at that position except for Kaepernick who was expected to be that face. Ask Fitzpatrick what average starter money is...but be careful, he might hit you.

And that lady just wanted a shot at the title....she asked me for my number....lol
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 9 2016, 12:20 AM) *
And that lady just wanted a shot at the title....she asked me for my number....

What title could possibly want if she asked you for your number? laugh.gif
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 8 2016, 09:24 PM) *
He is who he is.

Although this is an absolute, I don't know how anyone could possibly know who he is from his career except that he's injury prone.

His rookie year (2010) and 2012 are the only years he played 16 games. His second year he had a severe high ankle sprain that limited him to 10 games. In 2013 he injured his knee in game 7 and reinjured it the next preseason. After being out of football for a year and half rehabbing he injured his shoulder last year and missed 2 games.

I'd think this is why he wants to be on a team that will embrace him as their guy, and I don't blame him for that. My point is that he needs to play a season with a reasonable line, receivers, offense and coach and prove who is and what he can be for a team. He needs to stop acting entitled and just prove it like most anyone else looking for a job.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 9 2016, 06:31 AM) *
Although this is an absolute, I don't know how anyone could possibly know who he is from his career except that he's injury prone.

His rookie year (2010) and 2012 are the only years he played 16 games. His second year he had a severe high ankle sprain that limited him to 10 games. In 2013 he injured his knee in game 7 and reinjured it the next preseason. After being out of football for a year and half rehabbing he injured his shoulder last year and missed 2 games.

I'd think this is why he wants to be on a team that will embrace him as their guy, and I don't blame him for that. My point is that he needs to play a season with a reasonable line, receivers, offense and coach and prove who is and what he can be for a team. He needs to stop acting entitled and just prove it like most anyone else looking for a job.


I hate it when you are reasonable....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 9 2016, 06:10 AM) *
What title could possibly want if she asked you for your number? laugh.gif


Hey!! I can't help it that she is into tall, good looking guys....don't hate the player, hate the game....lolololol

What Mikey left out was as soon as she got behind the bar she asked if he was going to use his AARP discount..... blah.gif ac6.gif
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 9 2016, 08:47 AM) *
Hey!! I can't help it that she is into tall, good looking guys....

No, but I had already gone. laugh.gif
Pila
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 9 2016, 02:24 AM) *
Many times we have heard folks pointing for Sam's very good 7 game stretch last year as an indication of how well he can do going forward.

I just heard about 1/2 hr ago on WIP that a source (I think BGN?) did an analysis of the best 7 game stretches of all starting NFL QB's last year and Bradford's best 7 game stretch ranked 21st among the best 7 game stretches of each starting QB last year.

His best 7 games = 21st best
His overall season = 26th best

He is who he is.

Get him in, have an open competition, play the QB who wins the competition up until the point that we are eliminated from the playoffs, and then play the kid. If we're in playoff contention through the end of the year, then the kid sits the entire year, unless he wins the QB competition for the starting job. It isn't that tough a decision.

How about just watching him play? Surely, that might say something to how good he was during that time, probably?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Pila @ May 9 2016, 10:55 AM) *
How about just watching him play? Surely, that might say something to how good he was during that time, probably?



don't use reason with Mikey......he is immune to it.
Phits
QUOTE (Pila @ May 9 2016, 10:55 AM) *
How about just watching him play? Surely, that might say something to how good he was during that time, probably?

There's a disconnect between what some saw during his, playing time, including the last 7 games. There's no question that his play improved as the season progressed. Whether that improved play is his ceiling and is it sustainable is the question.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 9 2016, 12:46 PM) *
There's a disconnect between what some saw during his, playing time, including the last 7 games. There's no question that his play improved as the season progressed. Whether that improved play is his ceiling and is it sustainable is the question.


you worry me when you are reasonable......especially when I can agree with you....but it is a fair point
Pila
QUOTE (Phits @ May 9 2016, 05:46 PM) *
There's a disconnect between what some saw during his, playing time, including the last 7 games. There's no question that his play improved as the season progressed. Whether that improved play is his ceiling and is it sustainable is the question.

It's s reasonable question considering his frequent injury interruptions. It's also congenial to reason that those persistent interruptions are also the reason his natural talents have had a tough time getting on track. Those last seven games can be evidence of it finally unfolding. It merits a second look - it's been a long time since I've seen a QB look justifiably like one on this team. But that's what I saw.
Joegrane
I agree. That's probably why Sam is still here. Howie did not want to sell low to Denver or others this offseason. Howie is probably confident in Sam's ability to at least be a solid, average QB and therefore provide a decent return in a trade

I'm not so impressed by the comparison of the 7 best games. I'm more interested in a comparison of the last 7 games. Clearly he and his receivers were looking better in the 2nd half of the season.

QUOTE (Pila @ May 9 2016, 01:57 PM) *
It's s reasonable question considering his frequent injury interruptions. It's also congenial to reason that those persistent interruptions are also the reason his natural talents have had a tough time getting on track. Those last seven games can be evidence of it finally unfolding. It merits a second look - it's been a long time since I've seen a QB look justifiably like one on this team. But that's what I saw.

nephillymike
An unreasonable question for the reasonable Bradford fans:

Should this be an open competition that ignores the salary, draft status, or former relationships with Pederson in determining who the starting QB is for this season?
Joegrane
It is Sam's to loose. Someone else has to clearly win.

As an organization you don't want to get a reputation for disrespecting FAs who sign with your team. You also don't want to just give the job to someone without any consideration for the preparation, effort and performance.

Obviously you don't want to disrespect Daniel either. He has to be given an opportunity.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 9 2016, 09:02 PM) *
An unreasonable question for the reasonable Bradford fans:

Should this be an open competition that ignores the salary, draft status, or former relationships with Pederson in determining who the starting QB is for this season?

nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ May 9 2016, 09:03 PM) *
It is Sam's to loose. Someone else has to clearly win.

As an organization you don't want to get a reputation for disrespecting FAs who sign with your team. You also don't want to just give the job to someone without any consideration for the preparation, effort and performance.

Obviously you don't want to disrespect Daniel either. He has to be given an opportunity.



So in boxing parlance, someone needs to knock out Bradford from the starting spot. That he, like a champion in boxing has earned the respect so that not to lose the starting battle in a close fight that has to go to the judges cards.

Is that close to your feelings on the matter?

I do get the sentiment about disrespecting FA's but unfortunately, or fortunately, Daniel too is a FA, so he may not be clued in on the KO requirements.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 9 2016, 10:35 PM) *
So in boxing parlance, someone needs to knock out Bradford from the starting spot. That he, like a champion in boxing has earned the respect so that not to lose the starting battle in a close fight that has to go to the judges cards.

Is that close to your feelings on the matter?

I do get the sentiment about disrespecting FA's but unfortunately, or fortunately, Daniel too is a FA, so he may not be clued in on the KO requirements.


Fuck, your relentless.

I think Sam should be 3rd string....start Chase...because....in the same 6 years as Bradford he has 77 pass attempts because he is so damn great....and then go to the Rook.....I mean he won a bunch of games at Pull-a-pippy prep...of course his backup went 7-0 too soo there is that...

Bradford should be in the lead because he is currently the best Qb on the roster.....Daniels is a career backup who has impressed no one in 6 years and Wentz is a rookie unknown,,,,it is called common sense.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 9 2016, 10:11 PM) *
Fuck, your relentless.

I think Sam should be 3rd string....start Chase...because....in the same 6 years as Bradford he has 77 pass attempts because he is so damn great....and then go to the Rook.....I mean he won a bunch of games at Pull-a-pippy prep...of course his backup went 7-0 too soo there is that...

Bradford should be in the lead because he is currently the best Qb on the roster.....Daniels is a career backup who has impressed no one in 6 years and Wentz is a rookie unknown,,,,it is called common sense.


So in regard to my question:

Should this be an open competition that ignores the salary, draft status, or former relationships with Pederson in determining who the starting QB is for this season?

I'm deducting you would say that it goes to Sam because he's had more of a career as starter than the other two?

I realize I might seem relentless, but I just would like to know what people's expectations are for whether or not there is to be a QB competition. I agree that he should be in the lead, based on status, but how far to you go with it? If he's outplayed in camp and preseason, do you still have him the starter Game 1? Does he get a few games of the regular season? Just trying to get an idea of what the expectations are.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 9 2016, 11:11 PM) *
Bradford should be in the lead because he is currently the best Qb on the roster.....Daniels is a career backup who has impressed no one in 6 years and Wentz is a rookie unknown,,,,it is called common sense.

I generally agree with you but there's holes in this. He was picked up by the Saints to play behind Brees and apparently impressed Peyton enough to keep him in that spot for three years until he hit FA in 2013 when he was signed by Reid to play behind the QB he had just traded for. That seems to say that two pretty good coaches thought enough of him to have him play behind two pretty good QBs. I'm not suggesting he's a solid starter, but apparently he's a pretty good back up and generally those guys are supposed to be able to win games as part-time starters. Because he knows the system better than anyone else I'd say there'll be competition but I also believe that unless Sam is significantly worse he'll be the starter.
Pila
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 10 2016, 02:02 AM) *
An unreasonable question for the reasonable Bradford fans:

Should this be an open competition that ignores the salary, draft status, or former relationships with Pederson in determining who the starting QB is for this season?


The way both Howie and Pedey go around announcing Bradford their official starter in 8-hour increments strongly suggests such promises were an essential in getting the deal done. So, no - at least not at the start of the season. However, if things go sour and his play is the driving bitter shit spoiling the offense, then all bets off - as it should be.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 10 2016, 08:19 AM) *
I generally agree with you but there's holes in this. He was picked up by the Saints to play behind Brees and apparently impressed Peyton enough to keep him in that spot for three years until he hit FA in 2013 when he was signed by Reid to play behind the QB he had just traded for. That seems to say that two pretty good coaches thought enough of him to have him play behind two pretty good QBs. I'm not suggesting he's a solid starter, but apparently he's a pretty good back up and generally those guys are supposed to be able to win games as part-time starters. Because he knows the system better than anyone else I'd say there'll be competition but I also believe that unless Sam is significantly worse he'll be the starter.


One problem with that...he had 2 separate contracts with New Orleans which means he had the chance to go somewhere to get a shot at starting.....he din't get the chance even after "impressing" Payton. He went to KC with no chance of starting because they signed Smith to a big contract and once again he did not impress any other team so that they sought him out to be a starter. So even impressing 2 pretty good coaches, as you say, no one thought he could be their starter. 2 pretty good coaches see value in a backup.
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