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mcnabbulous
#Titans decline the fifth-year option for G Chance Warmack.

Glass houses, my man.
D Rock
Whatever you say, QB whisperer...

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

At least ole Chance hasn't gotten glass jawed by his beloved teammates. (at least he's been on the field)
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 2 2016, 02:04 PM) *
Whatever you say, QB whisperer...

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

At least ole Chance hasn't gotten glass jawed by his beloved teammates. (at least he's been on the field)

And making such an important impact!

Seriously, wanting to draft that guy is far more comical than wanting to take a chance on a high upside/high risk QB. But you keep holding on for dear life.

I'll give the Titans credit. They are a dumpster fire, but at least they can admit it's time to cut their losses on that one. A top-10 guard. What a time to be alive.
D Rock
Deflect all you like. We all know you shit the bed on your Geno Smith love fest. You know it too.

Thanks for playing!

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 2 2016, 04:03 PM) *
Deflect all you like. We all know you shit the bed on your Geno Smith love fest. You know it too.

Thanks for playing!

I've never been afraid to own my opinions. I loved the idea of drafting a QB. You mistook that for me believing Geno was a sure thing. It's the same way I feel about Wentz, but this time we have a higher floor.

Regardless, missing on Geno would have had the same general impact as hitting on Chance. That's what you've never been able to accept. A guard at the top of the draft...hopefully you've learned.
nephillymike
I couldn't find that year's draft analysis, but I know I had Chance pretty high up in the compilation.

I'm thinking top 5. sad.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2016, 08:47 PM) *
I couldn't find that year's draft analysis, but I know I had Chance pretty high up in the compilation.

I'm thinking top 5. sad.gif

That draft was hot garbage. That's what's so spectacular about the Geno grief I get. It was announced today that the 5th year options aren't being picked up for Joekel, Milliner, Patterson, Hayden, Mingo and Jarvis Jones.

Most of the guys that did get picked up were later in the first. It was a mess.

That's part of the luck element of the NFL. The Colts have gotten the #1 pick when Manning and Luck are coming out. We get it a top-5 pick where there is hardly a viable top-5 pick.
D Rock
The only thing "spectacular" about Geno Smith was the degree to which you were willing to fawn over him. A degree only surpassed by your continued defense of the lunacy.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 3 2016, 10:15 AM) *
The only thing "spectacular" about Geno Smith was the degree to which you were willing to fawn over him. A degree only surpassed by your continued defense of the lunacy.

Hey bud, you've got a search feature. Go ahead and find all these examples of me "fawning" all over Smith's game.

This was one of those classic examples of me being irrational in my love affair of the "flawless" Geno Smith.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 16 2013, 06:30 PM) *
My general opinion of this entire class is that no one is a sure thing. Very few QB prospects are. Andrew Luck was the exception, not the rule. But a QB doesn't need to be a sure thing to warrant a top-5 pick. We aren't taking about a one year wonder, either. This guy had three very solid seasons. There is far more good footage than bad.

My point is that the value in hitting on a QB far outweighs the upside with drafting an OL, even if that OL is a sure thing. And I'm not sure Joekel is anyways.

Smith has tons of upside. It would be our coaching staffs responsibility to get the most out of him. I'm not sure anyone ever did that with Couch or things may have been different.


So basically my opinion then is the same as it is now. That class was dogshit, almost every early draft choice had a major bust factor, and the upside in drafting a QB outweighed the upside in any other position. Given the liklihood of those guys busting (Joekel, who was arguably considered the safest pick in the draft, isn't having his 5th year option picked up), Geno warranted consideration.

You can try to twist that however you want. Geno may never be a good QB, but I never suggested that was guaranteed. I thought he needed time to acclimate to the NFL and good coaching. He received neither in NY.

But at least he isn't a fucking guard.

D Rock
How bout this gem from May 1st 2013...

Nabby: "Geno is a workaholic who has all the physical skills and proven results. There is nothing about his overall resume that indicates he's not a viable top-5 pick. "
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 3 2016, 11:50 AM) *
How bout this gem from May 1st 2013...

Nabby: "Geno is a workaholic who has all the physical skills and proven results. There is nothing about his overall resume that indicates he's not a viable top-5 pick. "

Based on what RG3 accomplished the previous season, as the #2 pick, I really don't think it's an outrageous statement.

Yeah, he hasn't been good. He played too early. RG3 hasn't been good either, beyond that one season before the league caught on to him.

Paxton Lynch is going to have the same learning curve.

All these guys need the coaching and patience to develop into real QB's. Their college experiences aren't preparing them for NFL coverages. They are making catch and release plays.

Just because I thought he was a viable early draft pick doesn't mean I thought he was a sure thing or should start immediately. In fact, quite the opposite.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2016, 02:24 PM) *
Based on what RG3 accomplished the previous season, as the #2 pick, I really don't think it's an outrageous statement.

Yeah, he hasn't been good. He played too early. RG3 hasn't been good either, beyond that one season before the league caught on to him.

Paxton Lynch is going to have the same learning curve.

All these guys need the coaching and patience to develop into real QB's. Their college experiences aren't preparing them for NFL coverages. They are making catch and release plays.

Just because I thought he was a viable early draft pick doesn't mean I thought he was a sure thing or should start immediately. In fact, quite the opposite.



There are plenty of top QBs who have come in and started right away and they are doing fine. 1 is an exception...6-8 ruins your hypothesis.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 3 2016, 01:28 PM) *
There are plenty of top QBs who have come in and started right away and they are doing fine. 1 is an exception...6-8 ruins your hypothesis.

Who are you referring to?

Mariota was excellent last year, coming out of a college spread offense, but he's more an exception to the rule than anything. I also don't think his college offense was defined the same as what RG3 and Geno played.

Most guys that have played in a college Air Raid system have struggled to acclimate. RG3 did it, but regressed to the mean following that.

How many examples can you think of where a guy transitioned successfully from an Air Raid offense to the NFL?

A few examples of failures would include:
Couch
Weeden
Manziel
Bradford

Goff is going to be interesting to watch. His college offense was a classic Air Raid system. I have major doubts about his ability to transition quickly. If he is extremely successful early, he'll be on the opposite side of history. I would bet that Wentz has an easier transition, even coming from a lesser college division.

Guys like Luck, Matt Ryan, Winston, and Russell Wilson didn't come from that system and have significantly easier transitions. Cam's offense was closer in style to Mariota's than the Air Raid stuff.

I think Hackenberg's experience with O'Brien gives him a bit of an advantage there too. Assuming he gets his mechanics straightened out, I could see him coming in and having a Matt Ryan-type start to his career.




nephillymike
You see what he did there?

He called with Geno Smith and raised with Hackenberg!!!
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 3 2016, 09:04 PM) *
You see what he did there?

He called with Geno Smith and raised with Hackenberg!!!


I give up...

Wentz is supposed to be coming from an NFL offense that he ran in college and yet he will need a decade to be ready to play in the NFL...

I give 10 examples of guys who came in and started right away and have played well.....

But Wentz should not be expected to?

Then why did we trade all that treasure for him? He is not a late 2nd round pick.

And I make excuses for Bradford? Fuck....he has not even been to practice yet and the excuses are starting....talk about hypocrisy....
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 3 2016, 08:15 PM) *
I give up...

Wentz is supposed to be coming from an NFL offense that he ran in college and yet he will need a decade to be ready to play in the NFL...

I give 10 examples of guys who came in and started right away and have played well.....

But Wentz should not be expected to?

Then why did we trade all that treasure for him? He is not a late 2nd round pick.

And I make excuses for Bradford? Fuck....he has not even been to practice yet and the excuses are starting....talk about hypocrisy....


My only reason is to put the best product on the field this year and maybe live up to giving Sammy some chance. If they're out of the playoffs (likely IMO), then the Kid plays and he will be like many of the others who didn't start day one but started at some point in year 1. I'm not making excuses, not at all. Just given the circumstances, what is workable for this year.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 3 2016, 08:15 PM) *
I give up...

Wentz is supposed to be coming from an NFL offense that he ran in college and yet he will need a decade to be ready to play in the NFL...

I give 10 examples of guys who came in and started right away and have played well.....

But Wentz should not be expected to?

Then why did we trade all that treasure for him? He is not a late 2nd round pick.

And I make excuses for Bradford? Fuck....he has not even been to practice yet and the excuses are starting....talk about hypocrisy....

Literally no one is making excuses for Wentz. Everyone is saying him sitting is not indicative of anything.

Thinking that he should sit and thinking he could play well if called upon are not mutually exclusive.

You're the only person making any real declarative statements about it. If our coaching staff wants him to learn from the bench, I would imagine there is a reason for that. Maybe they've done studies and feel as though that has the best chance of long term success.

I'm fine with it either way.
mcnabbulous
So my rant about Air Raid QBs had me interested in the subject so I googled "Air Raid QBs in the NFL" and interestingly the first hit was an entire article devoted to Geno and his place within the 2013 draft.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/201...ir-raid-offense

Figured I would share since it's especially relevant to Goff this year and inevitably will impact future drafts. I didn't realize that was Kolb had come out of that offense, but in hindsight it makes sense.

It's a pretty interesting read, regardless of the Geno angle. Those offenses definitely inflate numbers. It makes me extra happy we landed Wentz instead of Goff.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2016, 09:25 PM) *
Literally no one is making excuses for Wentz. Everyone is saying him sitting is not indicative of anything.

Thinking that he should sit and thinking he could play well if called upon are not mutually exclusive.

You're the only person making any real declarative statements about it. If our coaching staff wants him to learn from the bench, I would imagine there is a reason for that. Maybe they've done studies and feel as though that has the best chance of long term success.

I'm fine with it either way.


I do make a declarative statement about it, no question. For what he cost he needs to start from day one and if he is not ready than he is not worth what they paid. In the NFL a full third of the starting QBs/Franchise QBs started in their rookie year with most of those going to the Pro Bowl in their first 2 years. I did link an article that details it in another thread. To say I am worried about the Eagles right now is an understatement. Pederson, who I gave a lot of rope, looks more and more like a scared teacher. Howie looks more and more like Napoleon....

I am starting to dig through my closet for my Orange Crush blanket (yes, I followed the Broncos along with the Eagles in my early years..) I see bad juju for the Birds....bad juju
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 4 2016, 12:33 AM) *
I am starting to dig through my closet for my Orange Crush blanket (yes, I followed the Broncos along with the Eagles in my early years..) I see bad juju for the Birds....bad juju

Having gone to school in Boulder, lived in the mountains outside of town and in Denver for several years I share that history but I suspect we're both Eagles fans by DNA and don't really have much choice.

I also generally share your view of both Dougie and Howie but I'm not stopping at the "uh-oh" things like you seem to be. I don't see Pederson as anywhere near a finished product as HC, but what we're seeing isn't the most important. We'll need to see how the team and his staff react to him and how his system works on the field. Much like they seem to think about Wentz, I think he would have benefited from an OC job away from Andy before becoming a HC ... time to grow. This year will be an indication, but not the final grade on how DP will be as HC. New players, new systems NEW coach.

OTOH, Howard Roseman has done some impressive work since his return from St. Helena, and although there are legitimate concerns regarding his power and lack of football guidance there is reason for me to retain an Optimystic perspective until he proves otherwise. Let's see if and who they hire to advise him on talent and how his acquisitions perform on the field.

Unfortunately, there will be no decisive verdict any time soon. These things take time to develop, for good or bad and I won't be surprised if the fans are reluctant to show patience. An enterprising individual may consider opening a business near the castle in South Philly to furnish the mobs with their torches.
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