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Phits
Perhaps Bradford should have taken a lesson from his former teammate/roommate.

QUOTE
Titans running back DeMarco Murray isnít worried about second-round draft pick Derrick Henry taking carries away from him.

Murray told the Titansí coaches heís looking forward to playing with Henry and helping the Heisman Trophy winner develop into an NFL player.

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nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 1 2016, 06:59 PM) *
Perhaps Bradford should have taken a lesson from his former teammate/roommate.


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The toughest thing for college RB's to learn and Murray can help him with is the QB baseball slide on 3rd and 1! devil03.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 1 2016, 07:59 PM) *
Perhaps Bradford should have taken a lesson from his former teammate/roommate.


Read Here


Considering Murray had the worst year of his career and has made about a third of what Bradford has to date the situation is a bot different. What Murray is Guaranteed in his 4 year contract is only what Bradford was set to make in year one. Not to mention that there is no comparison between the demand for the 2 positions.

So yeah....there really is no comparison...
Dreagon
The Titans are simply looking at Demarco Murrays entire body of work and realizing the odds are that he will have a pulled hamstring before October, or nursing other injuries that will slow him down.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 1 2016, 08:06 PM) *
Considering Murray had the worst year of his career and has made about a third of what Bradford has to date the situation is a bot different. What Murray is Guaranteed in his 4 year contract is only what Bradford was set to make in year one. Not to mention that there is no comparison between the demand for the 2 positions.

So yeah....there really is no comparison...

I really don't get why you seem to think you need to continue to defend Bradford. Before you start pissing Miller Lite on me, remember I keep saying I wanted him to be the starter and draft a third or fourth rounder to groom behind him. I thought that was the best chance for the Eagles to be meaningful in the next 5-6 years. Build the OL, defense and skill positions around him and a young guy behind him.

And it's not about the money for him, you've acknowledged that. The Eagles would be a better team with Bradford playing QB this year. The QB is the face of a team, the leader of the offense and the great ones are leaders of the team. To me, leadership isn't putting your pride before your teammates.

I agree the Eagles miscalculated how he would react but they believe they are making the best decision for the future success of the team by trading up for Wentz. Bradford either feels slighted and disrespected or is upset because the move is depriving him of his ability to prove how good he can be. Both reactions are putting himself before his teammates and the team.

I don't excuse the Eagles, but I also can't defend the player for his selfishness. Bradford's actions are making the situation worse for the Eagles but also for his teammates and for himself. That's not defensible, IMO.

Shit happens, Sam. Move on and prove everyone wrong. You've been given an opportunity to do that. Take it, shove it in Howie's face and either force him to sign you to that long term deal or trade you to a team where you can continue to prove you're one of the best. But please, stop acting like a petulant child by not speaking to your mommy and daddy after they've hurt your feelings. Be a man, work through the adversity and prove them wrong. You've already overcome physical and mental challenges to get to this point, stop stamping your feet and pouting, join your teammates and be the leader! Or, be a quitter.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 2 2016, 06:36 AM) *
I really don't get why you seem to think you need to continue to defend Bradford. Before you start pissing Miller Lite on me, remember I keep saying I wanted him to be the starter and draft a third or fourth rounder to groom behind him. I thought that was the best chance for the Eagles to be meaningful in the next 5-6 years. Build the OL, defense and skill positions around him and a young guy behind him.

And it's not about the money for him, you've acknowledged that. The Eagles would be a better team with Bradford playing QB this year. The QB is the face of a team, the leader of the offense and the great ones are leaders of the team. To me, leadership isn't putting your pride before your teammates.

I agree the Eagles miscalculated how he would react but they believe they are making the best decision for the future success of the team by trading up for Wentz. Bradford either feels slighted and disrespected or is upset because the move is depriving him of his ability to prove how good he can be. Both reactions are putting himself before his teammates and the team.

I don't excuse the Eagles, but I also can't defend the player for his selfishness. Bradford's actions are making the situation worse for the Eagles but also for his teammates and for himself. That's not defensible, IMO.

Shit happens, Sam. Move on and prove everyone wrong. You've been given an opportunity to do that. Take it, shove it in Howie's face and either force him to sign you to that long term deal or trade you to a team where you can continue to prove you're one of the best. But please, stop acting like a petulant child by not speaking to your mommy and daddy after they've hurt your feelings. Be a man, work through the adversity and prove them wrong. You've already overcome physical and mental challenges to get to this point, stop stamping your feet and pouting, join your teammates and be the leader! Or, be a quitter.


and that is where you miss my point......it is not so much defending Bradford as it is refuting the Myopic point of view that the Eagles' interest is the only skin in this game or the only one with cards to play. He is not the first guy to hold out or demand a trade. I have not said he is right or wrong, just that there is another side to the story other than the Eagles.

And please stop the quitter silliness....that is a naive view.....the Eagles negate that by declaring him their starter...there was no competition in the first place. They know Daniel is not a starter and gives them little chance to win..(see what I did there?..lol) You can use every analogy you want about him pouting etc but this is both emotional and business....
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 2 2016, 09:47 AM) *
And please stop the quitter silliness....that is a naive view.....the Eagles negate that by declaring him their starter...there was no competition in the first place.

Naive? You may not agree and I'd like to hear your reasoning. But, to me, a player who signs a contract and commits himself to his teammates then demands to be traded when the team makes a move that threatens his future status, is quitting on his teammates. I think it's naive to think only one view is arguable.

Declaring him their starter has nothing to do with his response to the trade up, and if there's no competition and he's still turning his back on the other players that makes it worse. This isn't a player who has out performed his existing contract, this is a player who has under performed almost every year he's been in the league. The reasons are irrelevant, he has yet to prove himself and he's taking his shiny new contract and walking away from those who spoke up for him and who he committed to lead.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ May 2 2016, 02:03 PM) *
Naive? You may not agree and I'd like to hear your reasoning. But, to me, a player who signs a contract and commits himself to his teammates then demands to be traded when the team makes a move that threatens his future status, is quitting on his teammates. I think it's naive to think only one view is arguable.

Declaring him their starter has nothing to do with his response to the trade up, and if there's no competition and he's still turning his back on the other players that makes it worse. This isn't a player who has out performed his existing contract, this is a player who has under performed almost every year he's been in the league. The reasons are irrelevant, he has yet to prove himself and he's taking his shiny new contract and walking away from those who spoke up for him and who he committed to lead.


You keep saying "threatens" it doesn't threaten, it eliminates it. Please explain to me in what universe it would not. Short of winning a Superbowl he is gone after this year. They mortgaged their future for Wentz, they have to play him. On top of that, the Eagles do not have a top shelf WR and will run a ball control offense. It is not an offense that showcases a QB. SO he could have a good year and still not have gaudy stats to make his case. In fact, it is almost silly to even play him because he will be playing for his next contract....who's interest should he be serving under center? What does he do when the better play is a run play but he wants to go for the big play instead?

I am merely looking at the entire picture. I am not looking at it from the "he hurt my feelings" standpoint. Maybe he cools off and comes back but I can't see how it helps either side for him to be the QB. Trust me, I hope in 3 years that everyone here says I was completely wrong about Wentz. He seems like a good guy and I would like nothing better than for him to be a stud and that we are saying "Sam who?" in 2 years. But I try to look at the big picture.

Explain another thing to me.....what leverage does he have to be a leader now? Every player in the room knows he is done after a year.....what loyalty will be there? "Hey Carson...Sam doesn't throw me the ball...you would though, right?"

What is naive is ignoring the annual examples of players holding out for a multitude of reasons....he is not the first guy, under contract, to do so.....except he hasn't held out...he demanded a trade but he has not held out yet......you can carp about it in June if he misses minicamp. Right now him and Fletch are enjoying their free time. The Eagles made it clear that they have a limited commitment so if he commits to the letter of his contract what is the issue? Right now the only thing you can justifiably bitch about is his trade demand.

Zero
Hahaha, are you a politician?

You keep saying "threatens" it doesn't threaten, it eliminates it. They've told him he's the starter for 2016. If he plays well we both agree he'll likely be traded, ostensibly to a team that has need for a starting QB. His future status is neither threatened or eliminated though he and you perceive otherwise.

Explain another thing to me.....what leverage does he have to be a leader now? Every player in the room knows he is done after a year.....what loyalty will be there? Leverage to be a leader? That doesn't compute. The players say they like him and want him to be their starter. If that's true, I'd think that not only will they be motivated to win because they're competitors, but they'll want to join the "show Howie" chorus.

What is naive is ignoring the annual examples of players holding out for a multitude of reasons....he is not the first guy, under contract, to do so I haven't done the research, but I don't recall ever hearing of a player signing a new contract and then holding out after two months and before ever playing a game. Unusual would be an understatement. Do you have an example?

Fletcher Cox has performed at a high level throughout his contract and is a completely different situation than Bradford. We both know that. The only things I'm holding against Sam are his apparent feeling of entitlement and that he's making his displeasure public. I hope he can return to the team and proceed as originally planned.
Reality Fan
Do you work for the Eagles?...lol

I am just the only one that looks at this from both sides. I agree that Bradford could and should have handled this differently. I don't fault him leaving, just his agent going public with his demands.

I just think the Eagles botched this thing from the start and we will pay in agony for 4 years.....at least Howie will be gone...lol

God I hope I am wrong...please god......
Joegrane
"Entitlement," maybe, or maybe his reaction due to what Howie and Pederson told him during his contract negotiations.

If he feels they lied to him, he really might not want any part of them.

I hope the relationship has not deteriorated that badly. He gives the Eagles the best chance to get W's this year.
[quote name='Zero' date='May 2 2016, 03:23 PM' post='287647']
... The only things I'm holding against Sam are his apparent feeling of entitlement and that he's making his displeasure public. I hope he can return to the team and proceed as originally planned./quote]
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 2 2016, 02:26 PM) *
You keep saying "threatens" it doesn't threaten, it eliminates it. Please explain to me in what universe it would not.

He's the named starting QB (even though he hasn't earned it). If he plays lights out he has ammunition for his next contract negotiation...which was likely to be next off season.

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They mortgaged their future for Wentz

That's not true. They paid a premium to move up in the draft, but that's certainly not mortgaging your future.

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On top of that, the Eagles do not have a top shelf WR and will run a ball control offense. It is not an offense that showcases a QB.

Your point isn't valid since they don't have a top shelf RB either. As it stands right now, their receivers are better than the RB's

QUOTE
In fact, it is almost silly to even play him because he will be playing for his next contract....who's interest should he be serving under center? What does he do when the better play is a run play but he wants to go for the big play instead?

It was a one year "show me" deal. He would be playing for his next contract regardless.

QUOTE
Explain another thing to me.....what leverage does he have to be a leader now? Every player in the room knows he is done after a year.....what loyalty will be there?

Unless he plans to retire he is playing for his reputation, which was already pretty shitty even before demanding a trade.


QUOTE
Right now the only thing you can justifiably bitch about is his trade demand.

Actually, by publicly demanding a trade he has affected his potential value. He obviously wanted to go to Denver, so he made the play before the draft in order to force the Eagles hands. Howie didn't flinch. As a result, Sammy is going to be stuck in QB purgatory. He has snubbed his nose to management, the fans and his teammates. For a guy rumored to be relatively intelligent he sure looks stupid now. Hopefully he is managing his money better than he has his career....assuming he wants to play football and isn't the coward he appears to be.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 2 2016, 04:51 PM) *
Do you work for the Eagles?...lol

I am just the only one that looks at this from both sides. I agree that Bradford could and should have handled this differently. I don't fault him leaving, just his agent going public with his demands.

I just think the Eagles botched this thing from the start and we will pay in agony for 4 years.....at least Howie will be gone...lol

God I hope I am wrong...please god......

I hate disagreeing with you, but you're definitely not the only one looking at this from both sides. I've said before that both sides screwed this up, but it's the player that took it public and that's where the major problem is. If it were kept behind closed doors there would have been a better chance to either get the trade he's demanding or for an amicable resolution. He drew a line in the sand and put a spotlight on it. That's the reason we're talking about it and the reason he's getting the flack from everyone. I really don't know why you have a problem seeing that.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 2 2016, 06:29 PM) *
He's the named starting QB (even though he hasn't earned it). If he plays lights out he has ammunition for his next contract negotiation...which was likely to be next off season.
And just what in Pederson's "new" offense showcases a QB for his next contract? unreal

That's not true. They paid a premium to move up in the draft, but that's certainly not mortgaging your future.
No...you are right....they traded nothing...no players....no picks....just a little extra...again...unreal....

Your point isn't valid since they don't have a top shelf RB either. As it stands right now, their receivers are better than the RB's

Are you really that stupid? The point is that they will run a ball control offense and do not have a top flight WR for Bradford to throw to to showcase hi strengths to his next prospective team....do you get that? He can look a lot better throwing for 4000 yards than he will for 3000. You can not fix stupid.

Actually, by publicly demanding a trade he has affected his potential value. He obviously wanted to go to Denver, so he made the play before the draft in order to force the Eagles hands. Howie didn't flinch. As a result, Sammy is going to be stuck in QB purgatory. He has snubbed his nose to management, the fans and his teammates. For a guy rumored to be relatively intelligent he sure looks stupid now. Hopefully he is managing his money better than he has his career....assuming he wants to play football and isn't the coward he appears to be.

Yeah...he is a coward and you are a complete idiot...



Phits
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No...you are right

Thanks. That's why I mentioned it.

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Are you really that stupid? The point is that they will run a ball control offense and do not have a top flight WR for Bradford to throw to to showcase hi strengths to his next prospective team....do you get that? He can look a lot better throwing for 4000 yards than he will for 3000. You can not fix stupid.

He can look a lot better just by playing 16 games. He should try staying healthy and shutting his mouth.

btw...dummy...even with the "shitty" receivers he had last season he almost had 4000 yards passing (in 13 games). If he fails to reach nirvana by throwing 4000 yards it will be his own fault, especially since almost half the league was able to do it last season


QUOTE
Yeah...he is a coward and you are a complete idiot...

Not a complete idiot. I'm able to engage another moron in a conversation. That takes some wits.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 2 2016, 07:09 PM) *
Thanks. That's why I mentioned it.


He can look a lot better just by playing 16 games. He should try staying healthy and shutting his mouth.

btw...dummy...even with the "shitty" receivers he had last season he almost had 4000 yards passing (in 13 games). If he fails to reach nirvana by throwing 4000 yards it will be his own fault, especially since almost half the league was able to do it last season



Not a complete idiot. I'm able to engage another moron in a conversation. That takes some wits.


You really don't have a clue do you?

Andy's offense is a ball control....you know what...I am wasting my time...you are to damn obtuse to understand it in the first place....

But to keep iy simple....the Eagles will not be running Chip Kelly's offense next year....I guess you thought they might but not likely...

and no...complete is accurate.....babbling is not engaging.....
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 2 2016, 07:39 PM) *
You really don't have a clue do you?

No. why don't you help me out, since you know it all.

QUOTE
Andy's offense is a ball control....you know what...I am wasting my time...you are to damn obtuse to understand it in the first place....

Which RB combination, on the Eagles, will be giving us (combined) 2000 yard rushing (approx. 130 ypg) that KC has had during AR's time as HC?

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But to keep iy simple....the Eagles will not be running Chip Kelly's offense next year....I guess you thought they might but not likely...

No, I just figured that with the heavy investment at the QB position that the team would use the resource. Speculation, by many, assumes that Pederson will follow AR's playbook. I have my doubts. I guess we will have to wait and see.

QUOTE
and no...complete is accurate.....babbling is not engaging.....

Since you are responding to my every post, we appear to be engaging "babbling" with one another
nephillymike
This will be good over a few beers Saturday.

Me the mediator.

Imagine that.

Nephillymike, Axis Founder, Mediator.

I like the sound of that!!

I look at it this way.

He turned down a really stupid offer from the Eagles last preseason that in hindsight, saved us.

He and the team could not agree to a long term deal, if they even wanted one, so they both decided to go with a one year/two year show me deal which was acceptable to both sides.

Since he didn't do a long term deal, he and the team wanted a chance to clarify their positions long term.

He wanted a chance to further showcase his skills in the hopes of securing a long term deal and more money. There is nothing in the contract construction that says that long term shot had to be in Philly.

That option is still available to him, even if it may not be in Philly. BTW, IMO, if he's top ten like some drunken board members believe he can be, they honor his second year option and put the kid on hold for another year. If he's is below that, then they trade him cut him or whatever, but he still will have opportunities to go elsewhere. Whether or not he gets a long term deal elsewhere will depend on how well he plays.

I see his side and I understand his frustration. While KC ran a ball control offense, we don't have the skill at RB or run blocking OL to do that, so he'll have a chance to play well. If Alex Smith had the same option as Sam does in his 2017 contract, and KC cuts him before the 2017 season, don't you think he'll get a lot of action? He has to play like Alex, or close to it and he'll do fine. Selfish me doesn't want his $7M contract and I want a pick. Looks lie that won't happen unless he's a no show then I don't get the pick.
Reality Fan
Jesus.....I hope Z doesn't club me.......

Maybe I should come armed or with a bodyguard....lol
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