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nephillymike
There is no post draft trade market.

If he holds out much longer he may have to, sit down for this, compete for the job.

If he can't beat out the Kid and Daniel, his stock will fall on the open market.

Seems to me, the only option right now is to come to camp and play the best he can.

The longer he waits, the tougher the starting job is to win and the more he jeopardizes his plans.

I don't think anyone sees him as a long term option right now.

If he comes in and has a good year, that may change for next year.

The only thing that holding out may do is that if we cut him, he will have the right to seek his own deal as opposed to us deciding where to trade him after this year. However, he'll jeopardize his $7M salary.

Does anyone else see a better option if you were looking after his best interests?
mcnabbulous
Absolutely no better option. They have completely bungled this.
Zero
He can retire or fight for his job.
mcnabbulous
I actually thought it should have been an open competition when Daniel was signed. I wonder if they so adamantly declared Sam the starter because they knew was a sensitive little butterfly he is.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 1 2016, 06:13 PM) *
I actually thought it should have been an open competition when Daniel was signed. I wonder if they so adamantly declared Sam the starter because they knew was a sensitive little butterfly he is.



I thought it odd how open Howie was about that, especially given Pedey's somewhat different tone in late March.

Since when does the "GM" make coaching decisions?
Reality Fan
It is pretty simple.....Bradford does not have to do a thing.....he can sit at home, golf, whatever. I laugh about all the hypocrisy.....if he is so afraid of competition than why play again? He is ungodly rich. He is not some pie eyed rookie. That is his leverage, he does not need the money so the Eagles sit there with unusable cap money and he works on his short game.

After all...isn't the prevailing thought here is that he does not want to compete? I mean, as silly as that is for a guy who wants to be the guy that goes out to play each week and take the beating that he took last year but he doesn't want to compete? That is funny stuff. I mean forget the stuff where the Eagles have already said that he does not have to "compete" for the job, it is his....ignore that part......because that make the "he doesn't want to compete" argument really look foolish....right now he does not need to do a thing. Don't be surprised if he stays at home and waits for TC to come and the inevitable QB need to pop up from injury or ineptitude to pop up.

I think people look at it from our perspective that we would do it in a heart beat or, and I think there was a foolish comparison about Kenyon Barner.....Bradford is like Fitzpatrick....smart guys that don't need the money...they can dictate what they do a little because if they don't play next year they will be fine.....that does not mean either should feel that way...just that they can.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 1 2016, 07:02 PM) *
It is pretty simple.....Bradford does not have to do a thing.....he can sit at home, golf, whatever. I laugh about all the hypocrisy.....if he is so afraid of competition than why play again? He is ungodly rich. He is not some pie eyed rookie. That is his leverage, he does not need the money so the Eagles sit there with unusable cap money and he works on his short game.

After all...isn't the prevailing thought here is that he does not want to compete? I mean, as silly as that is for a guy who wants to be the guy that goes out to play each week and take the beating that he took last year but he doesn't want to compete? That is funny stuff. I mean forget the stuff where the Eagles have already said that he does not have to "compete" for the job, it is his....ignore that part......because that make the "he doesn't want to compete" argument really look foolish....right now he does not need to do a thing. Don't be surprised if he stays at home and waits for TC to come and the inevitable QB need to pop up from injury or ineptitude to pop up.

I think people look at it from our perspective that we would do it in a heart beat or, and I think there was a foolish comparison about Kenyon Barner.....Bradford is like Fitzpatrick....smart guys that don't need the money...they can dictate what they do a little because if they don't play next year they will be fine.....that does not mean either should feel that way...just that they can.


So your advice to your client Bradford for his long term interest is to stay away?

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 1 2016, 08:05 PM) *
So your advice to your client Bradford for his long term interest is to stay away?


absolutely.....what more damage can he do. The rest of the league sees the situation for what it is even if myopic fans here don't. Bradford wants to prove that he can be the guy going forward. Philly has told him there is no way to do that here. It is one thing to give him a generous "show me" contract, another to reverse course and trade a lot of assets to draft a guy number 2. That is not competition, that is a "here's your hat, what's your hurry" move. They have made their plan clear.....have a great tear so we can trade you wherever we want for additional assets. That will likely be to a team that is desperate for help and likely sucks. He is merely speeding up the process. You can disagree but who is Sam beholden to? The Eagles or himself? Divorce yourself from the "I am an Eagles fan" standpoint. From a cold, hard evaluation, what would you do? He does not need the money...this is about planning out the next 4-5 years of his career.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 1 2016, 08:19 PM) *
absolutely.....what more damage can he do. The rest of the league sees the situation for what it is even if myopic fans here don't. Bradford wants to prove that he can be the guy going forward. Philly has told him there is no way to do that here. It is one thing to give him a generous "show me" contract, another to reverse course and trade a lot of assets to draft a guy number 2. That is not competition, that is a "here's your hat, what's your hurry" move. They have made their plan clear.....have a great tear so we can trade you wherever we want for additional assets. That will likely be to a team that is desperate for help and likely sucks.

That's your interpretation of it. You also felt that the Eagles wouldn't invest as heavily as they did in the QB position. I think what you fail to realize is that the FO recognizes the need for a franchise QB, and they have gone all in with that notion. They want somebody that can play at a high quality level for a sustained period of time.

Bradford was named the starter for the upcoming season. He is supposed to be the leader and looking forward. I would think he should have the mindstate that this is his job to lose. Much to the chagrin of Eagles fans, I wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles have no plan for Wentz to see any significant PT this coming season.

QUOTE
He is merely speeding up the process. You can disagree but who is Sam beholden to? The Eagles or himself? Divorce yourself from the "I am an Eagles fan" standpoint. From a cold, hard evaluation, what would you do?

IMO, by going public Bradford/Condon tried to bully the Eagles into trading him to Denver. I believe that Sammy wants a favorable QB role on a team that he doesn't have to be great. It backfired, because the Eagles had no intention of trading him. They want him as their starter (at least) for the upcoming season. They gave him good money to do so.
QUOTE
He does not need the money...this is about planning out the next 4-5 years of his career

If that was the case he should have tested free agency. I am not privy to the negotiations, but by way of the contract he signed there was no guarantee that he would be here 4-5 years.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 1 2016, 08:19 PM) *
Divorce yourself from the "I am an Eagles fan" standpoint. From a cold, hard evaluation, what would you do? He does not need the money...this is about planning out the next 4-5 years of his career.

He has shown that he cares more about himself than his team. Compare this to any player who has been treated questionably by his team yet seems to stand a bit straighter and work a bit harder because of it. Bradford has indicated that he is willing to walk away from the players who supported him, lobbied the team to keep him. Not for them but for "the next 4-5 years of his career."

I would hope that's not what I would do. Seeing as I don't need the money, the main thing remaining is my pride and my character.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ May 1 2016, 08:34 PM) *
That's your interpretation of it. You also felt that the Eagles wouldn't invest as heavily as they did in the QB position. I think what you fail to realize is that the FO recognizes the need for a franchise QB, and they have gone all in with that notion. They want somebody that can play at a high quality level for a sustained period of time.

I don't fail to realize what their intention is at all. I do think that they should have realized the impact of those moves. The player will also look at his own self interest.

Bradford was named the starter for the upcoming season. He is supposed to be the leader and looking forward. I would think he should have the mindstate that this is his job to lose. Much to the chagrin of Eagles fans, I wouldn't be surprised if the Eagles have no plan for Wentz to see any significant PT this coming season.

Once they made their moves and their intentions were clear the "leader" bullshit goes out the window. The first time there is an issue any player that has a problem merely looks at him and says "whatever, you won't be here next year" or they cozy up to Wentz and the palace coup, already a fait accompli accelerates. Bradford is not in a position to lead now and he wasn't the minute the trade was made.


IMO, by going public Bradford/Condon tried to bully the Eagles into trading him to Denver. I believe that Sammy wants a favorable QB role on a team that he doesn't have to be great. It backfired, because the Eagles had no intention of trading him. They want him as their starter (at least) for the upcoming season. They gave him good money to do so.

I don't think he has a specific place in mind, I think he just wants a place where he can play well and know that if he does he is going to start again next year. Here that is unlikely if not impossible.

If that was the case he should have tested free agency. I am not privy to the negotiations, but by way of the contract he signed there was no guarantee that he would be here 4-5 years.

I agree completely...that is where he screwed up and his agent failed him

nephillymike
C'mon RF, you know this Eagles fan wish is for your boy Sam to be gone and us to get our $7M back, preferably with a pick.

I am putting my Sam and Condon hat on here and am honestly trying to think from his point of view, what is best.

The fact that he doesn't need the money doesn't mean that he doesn't want the money, nor it doesn't mean that the money isn't a show of his worth and standing in the league, nor does it mean he can make up the money.

If he sits out and the Eagles cut him, he loses the $7M they would have paid him, less any new deal, and the future lucrative 2nd year and its $4M guarantee that comes with it. He also loses the leverage that that deal gives him with another team to negotiate from. Negotiating from a year 2 of $13M salary plus $4M roster bonus is a much stronger position than salary of 0.

Also, I think sitting out would put a valid question in the minds of his next employer of his desire for the game, which hurts his market value.

Lastly, at this current time, nobody needs him. He needs to buy time until someone does. Sitting out of football while waiting is not getting himself ready to play.

Then there is the fact that the Eagles control where he goes as of right now. It appears they aren't willing to trade him for what the market is offering and really unless they're offering a player, a 2017 pick doesn't come around for 12 months.

The only benefit I see to him sitting out is the hope that the Eagles cutting him which will let him be free to avoid places he may not want to get traded to. I think the damage of sitting out out weigh the possibility of a trade to unwanted places.

This may sound dumb, but thinking out loud, maybe they make year 2 of the deal consensual, that they both need to agree to year 2 for it to kick in, with a payback to the team if he opts out or a payout to Sam if the team opts out. Or maybe they do a limited no trade option where Sam can name a few places that we can't trade him to. Not sure how smart these are, just thinking off the top of my head.

I just think from his standpoint, there is no market now. The best way to ensure or improve your worth for when there is a market is to play this year under the deal. Although I don't want that to be the case and not in my best interests, I think that is in his best interests.

Unless he feels that he can't beat out the Kid and Daniel. If that is the case, he's better hitting the golf course to keep the illusion that he is a viable highly paid starting NFL QB then to play and remove the curtain of OZ.
Reality Fan
A couple of things....

The idea that he needs to beat out Daniel or the kid....silly for several reasons....Daniel is not supplanting Bradford unless Bradford is crippled. He has a weak arm and just id not that good. The Eagles have already anointed Bradford the starter so they declared the competition over already...they have no desire for the "kid" to start year one.

You keep presenting this as if all the other teams in the NFL don't already know exactly what the situation in Philly is. Every team knows all to well what it is and why Bradford is doing what he is doing. They know the Eagles will have to do something eventually...why trade for what you can likely get for nothing?

Now the big question....why would Bradford risk injury for a team that he clearly has no future with? The risks of playing in a new offense with no possible way to stay on that team may be more than he wants to risk. We may not like it or agree with it but he is looking out for himself. The history for QB demand in this league is on his side.
BirdsWinBaby
I'm sorry...I said I would wait until it's a real holdout. But it should be noted....

Bradford has no value now because he is DESPERATELY needed by the Eagles to avoid a disaster of a season as I spelled out elsewhere. He is a mediocre QB that the Eagles are valuing at a premium because they literally have no choice. No team will pay that premium because they know that he isn't as good as Howie's asking asking price

But even a mediocre QB in this league has value and will be sought after by many teams because they dont have even that

Bradford can (literally) afford to sit out a year and watch the Eagles and Howie squirm their way through a whole season of losing, team growth, new coach learning curves, etc...

Assuming that Wentz is ready for season 2 of Bradford not showing up, can anyone stomach another year of it? Howie has no choice but to let him go. And given that their are sooooo many teams that have horrible QBs...can a capable QB in Bradford not be worth the 'show me' contract that he would no doubt sign for once he is free of the Howie asking price?

As I said.... I will wait to see if he shows for mandatory workouts. But don't get too smug about Bradford's options
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 1 2016, 09:00 PM) *
A couple of things....

The idea that he needs to beat out Daniel or the kid....silly for several reasons....Daniel is not supplanting Bradford unless Bradford is crippled. He has a weak arm and just id not that good. The Eagles have already anointed Bradford the starter so they declared the competition over already...they have no desire for the "kid" to start year one.

You keep presenting this as if all the other teams in the NFL don't already know exactly what the situation in Philly is. Every team knows all to well what it is and why Bradford is doing what he is doing. They know the Eagles will have to do something eventually...why trade for what you can likely get for nothing?

Now the big question....why would Bradford risk injury for a team that he clearly has no future with? The risks of playing in a new offense with no possible way to stay on that team may be more than he wants to risk. We may not like it or agree with it but he is looking out for himself. The history for QB demand in this league is on his side.


Many players play every year for their next deal. Join the club Sam.

The history of the demand for Sam's services at Sam's current price is not on his side.

So right now, today, which teams that Bradford would be willing to play for, would go for Bradford's current deal, and would not have him have to compete for the starting spot?

I'm sensing a bet coming on.

I still like the Bradford will be top ten in the league we discussed previously
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 1 2016, 11:37 PM) *
Many players play every year for their next deal. Join the club Sam.

The history of the demand for Sam's services at Sam's current price is not on his side.

So right now, today, which teams that Bradford would be willing to play for, would go for Bradford's current deal, and would not have him have to compete for the starting spot?

I'm sensing a bet coming on.

I still like the Bradford will be top ten in the league we discussed previously


It doesn't matter what you think, quite honestly...Ryan Fitzpatrick found a home.....Bradford may not get 17 million elsewhere in his first year but he will give himself a chance to find a team where he will have a chance to win a job for more than a year. In this league QBs are in high demand and you may think that no one wants him but apparently several teams were interested in him before last year and while you may not think so his play last year did not hurt him. He put up good tape...he looked like a good QB beyond any numbers, can you say his play over the last 1/2 of the season was not pretty good when you watched him? Teams see that...that is why Denver called right away. What is funny is no one knows what the Eagles asked. I will bet it was a lot more than a 4th....It was enough for Denver to tell every other team that the Eagles would not trade him. If that is the case how much happier do you think that makes Bradford?

I would have taken that bet if the Eagles had not done what they did.....I do not see Bradford ever wearing the Green again. I may be wrong but I do not see it.

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