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nephillymike
And your choices are:

Bradford for $7M and a 4th round pick

Kaep for $7M and a 4th round pick

Fitz for $10M and no pick

Hoyer for 3M and no pick.

Who are you taking?

I have to think Sam is choice, no?
Zero
Yes.

If Bradford is traded the Eagles will have to sign another QB. Wentz needs to be kept from the wolves as a rookie. Then maybe a Hoyer would fit.
Eyrie
I'd rule Cleveland out immediately, or we'd have included Bradford as part of the trade up.

I'm not averse to trading him though and letting Daniel play the Pederson role with Wentz as McNabb (and let's hope he does that well for us).
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 22 2016, 12:01 AM) *
And your choices are:

Bradford for $7M and a 4th round pick

Kaep for $7M and a 4th round pick

Fitz for $10M and no pick

Hoyer for 3M and no pick.

Who are you taking?

I have to think Sam is choice, no?


No....and as usual you are short sighted....

Why part with a pick to do something you already don't want to do?

None of these teams want to spend big money on a QB...they have been pretty clear about that....so Bradford gets you a year and then what? Next year is 17 million and Bradford will be in no mood to renegotiate...and any extension will be big money.....

You do love to ignore the big picture for Madden-like immediacy....but it is cute how you think Bradford i mediocre or less to us but a super hero to other teams...

By the way....the Fitz price is likely to continue dropping but it is not down to 10 million yet

cheers.gif whipitgood.gif duel.gif
The Franchise
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 22 2016, 12:01 AM) *
Kaep for $7M and a 4th round pick

I have to think Sam is choice, no?


laugh.gif

If you offer me Kaep for $7m and a 4th rounder, I take it while drooling, turn myself in at the police station for theft, and be sure to send you and your family Super Bowl tickets so you can watch him play in person. With him throwing to D. Thomas and Sanders, and with Denver's defense, they probably win a ring.
HobbEs
What about San Fran? If Kaepernick is on his way out then maybe Chipper would be interested in re-acquiring Sam.
SLOiggles
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 22 2016, 12:35 PM) *
laugh.gif

If you offer me Kaep for $7m and a 4th rounder, I take it while drooling, turn myself in at the police station for theft, and be sure to send you and your family Super Bowl tickets so you can watch him play in person. With him throwing to D. Thomas and Sanders, and with Denver's defense, they probably win a ring.



I hate to break it to you, but Kaepernick sucks. And his lone chance in his NFL career at winning at Super Bowl is long in the past.
The Franchise
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Apr 22 2016, 05:04 PM) *
I hate to break it to you, but Kaepernick sucks. And his lone chance in his NFL career at winning at Super Bowl is long in the past.


I forgot, I'm part of the fan base where QB's who go to NFCCG's suck ass. rolleyes.gif

Kaep isn't Brady or Manning, but if you put him on that Broncos team, I'm pretty sure they make a title run. I doubt we'll find out though.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 22 2016, 05:31 PM) *
I doubt we'll find out though.

Because no one that actually works for an NFL team believes he would provide real value.
nephillymike
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Apr 22 2016, 02:39 PM) *
What about San Fran? If Kaepernick is on his way out then maybe Chipper would be interested in re-acquiring Sam.



True. I forgot to mention them.

Should we add Chip to the long list of NFL people who are not interested in Sam?

I mean, he of all people, should have been enamored with his late season performance right?

Kaep doesn't want to there, but we know Chip tolerates that kind of thing.

He's got Blaine Fucking Gabbert, yes he of getting beat out by Chad Henne.

They could trade Kaep to DEN or NYJ or CLE for a pick. Give that pick to the Eagles for Sam and move on.

Unless Chipper doesn't think he's any good either. Get in line.

My guess is that Chip would take him if given the chance.

Shop him Howie, shop him!!
nephillymike
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 22 2016, 02:35 PM) *
laugh.gif

If you offer me Kaep for $7m and a 4th rounder, I take it while drooling, turn myself in at the police station for theft, and be sure to send you and your family Super Bowl tickets so you can watch him play in person. With him throwing to D. Thomas and Sanders, and with Denver's defense, they probably win a ring.


Beat out by Gabbert, Kaep is done.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 22 2016, 08:36 PM) *
True. I forgot to mention them.

Should we add Chip to the long list of NFL people who are not interested in Sam?

I mean, he of all people, should have been enamored with his late season performance right?


Oh yeah...like either Chip or Howie would answer the other's call......
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 22 2016, 10:47 PM) *
Oh yeah...like either Chip or Howie would answer the other's call......

Chip's not the GM. If he's interested he'll tell Baalke and they can try to work out a deal.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 22 2016, 10:28 PM) *
Chip's not the GM. If he's interested he'll tell Baalke and they can try to work out a deal.



And then disclaim he had anything to do with it in a press conference to piss off the owner biggrin.gif
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 22 2016, 05:58 PM) *
Because no one that actually works for an NFL team believes he would provide real value.


That's funny, I could've sworn John Elway was talking trades with SF about bringing in Kaep to 'compete' with Sanchez for the starting job. Now trade talks have been deemed 'dormant.' Sounds like he has enough value to make both sides wait for better leverage.

Then again, he may just be hanging on to see if he can snag Geno Smith. laugh.gif

But yeah, if he stays in SF under Chip his career is over.
mcnabbulous
If Elway thought Kaep could legit have them competing for a SB, he wouldn't hesitate to offer more than a fourth rounder, ya dipshit.
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 23 2016, 12:59 PM) *
If Elway thought Kaep could legit have them competing for a SB, he wouldn't hesitate to offer more than a fourth rounder, ya dipshit.


First, you said nobody who actually works for an NFL franchise would find any value in Kaep. Obviously, you're wrong (as always), as a guy who has won multiple rings both as a QB on the field and in the FO is trying to bring him in.

Second, the '4th round pick' scenario was presented by a Wingheads board member to us, not the 49ers or Broncos to each other.

Ya dipshit.
mcnabbulous
Lol. But yeah, what would NFL.com know about things.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000064...ourthround-pick
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 23 2016, 02:12 PM) *
Lol. But yeah, what would NFL.com know about things.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000064...ourthround-pick


Did you actually read the article?! No? The Broncos currently don't own a 4th round pick, they just said they think Kaep is worth one. SF thinks he's worth a 2nd. The Browns say a 3rd. It's a mixture of smoke and mirrors known as 'negotiating a deal.' You see, during this process, teams put out misinformation and try to maximize value at the expense of other franchises.

Hopefully your company never has you negotiate any deals on their behalf, for their sake.
mcnabbulous
And as I said, they would hesitate to offer more than a fourth rounder if they thought he could legitimately have them competing. Keep trying though
The Franchise
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 23 2016, 02:51 PM) *
And as I said, they would hesitate to offer more than a fourth rounder if they thought he could legitimately have them competing. Keep trying though


This is what you said.

QUOTE
Because no one that actually works for an NFL team believes he would provide real value.


Yet several teams, including the reigning Super Bowl champs, are trying to deal for him - and you were even kind enough to post a link proving how wrong you are. They don't need to offer more right now, as they have leverage. Look it up.

It's truly amazing engaging you. Your denial and shamelessness would make Kanye West look like Mother Theresa.
mcnabbulous
If they were trying to deal for him, because he could help lead them to a SB, they wouldn't be nitpicking over compensation.

Until it happens, you're wrong.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 23 2016, 05:46 PM) *
If they were trying to deal for him, because he could help lead them to a SB, they wouldn't be nitpicking over compensation.

Until it happens, you're wrong.


One of the issues is cap space...go figure...
Dreagon
I think Paxton Lynch just became an assured first round choice. Heck, Hackenburg may benefit from this too.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Apr 23 2016, 08:37 PM) *
I think Paxton Lynch just became an assured first round choice. Heck, Hackenburg may benefit from this too.



you are spot on
Joegrane
Who do you think will be interested in Lynch and where in round 1?

Lynch makes sense for Andy R, especially after losing his #2. AZ and NYJ are rumored to be considering Lynch. That makes Lynch too expensive for Denver who is in win-now mode.

Denver is not going to trust a rookie when the starter is Sanchez and there are less expensive (in draft picks) options available in free agency. When you have a chance to make a deep run you are not going to care about the long term future. You give yourself the best chance to win this year. Bradford does that for them.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 01:59 AM) *
you are spot on
D Rock
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Apr 22 2016, 11:31 PM) *
I forgot, I'm part of the fan base where QB's who go to NFCCG's suck ass. rolleyes.gif

Kaep isn't Brady or Manning, but if you put him on that Broncos team, I'm pretty sure they make a title run. I doubt we'll find out though.

Bradford would be a better fit in Denver without question.
Reality Fan
Osweiler would have been the best fit for Denver....and you saw how that worked out....

They are a "win with defense" team and they are going to continue....quite honestly, Sanchez is probably an upgrade over the Peyton Manning that played for them in the playoffs.....Manning had zero arm left

I guess the hard question I have to this way of thinking, especially for the "Bradford is not the answer" crowd is pretty simple.

If it comes down to Kap or Sam what makes you think that Denver will give up more for Sam.....Kap has a playoff winning resume...not to mention you think Sam is a dud.....or even be interested in Sam when Kap is a cheaper long term option?

Truly confusing....
mcnabbulous
While Peyton's arm was shot, he is still the smartest QB to ever play the game. That was enough.

I still don't believe their mindset is "win with defense." Not with Elway running the show. That just happened to be the team they built. They're going to keep trying to get a legit franchise QB.

Let's not forget. Two years ago they were the second highest scoring team in football, then fired their defensive head coach, hired an offensive head coach, and became a "win with defense" team.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 02:24 PM) *
While Peyton's arm was shot, he is still the smartest QB to ever play the game. That was enough.

I still don't believe their mindset is "win with defense." Not with Elway running the show. That just happened to be the team they built. They're going to keep trying to get a legit franchise QB.

Let's not forget. Two years ago they were the second highest scoring team in football, then fired their defensive head coach, hired an offensive head coach, and became a "win with defense" team.


So it is really hard to win with defense but the Broncos just lucked into it? Seriously? They fired their coach because they felt he could not finish and because the Broncos lost to the Colts in a really weak effort in a playoff game...that on top of Fox and Elway not getting along....it had nothing to do with his defense or offense...

and lets not forget that 2 years ago they were the number 3 defense in yards allowed....their defense is no accident...

and regardless of how smart Manning is, and he is a genius, having no arm to throw 15 yards is a huge handcuff....you can't smart your way into a 10 yard out......it only kept him from bad mistakes.
mcnabbulous
I didn't say anything about luck. They have done a great job of building a great defense, including hiring arguably the best DC in history.

It still doesn't convince me that Elway is a "win with defense" GM. He's trying to build the best team possible and doing a hell of a job, but I would guarantee he will be doing everything possible to build a great offense (centered around a QB) in recent years.
The Franchise
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 24 2016, 12:08 PM) *
Bradford would be a better fit in Denver without question.


Kaep has the resume, but Bradford would be in heaven there no doubt. Point was, Denver just needs to find an adequate QB and they make a run again. Even Sanchez could win with that team if it comes to that.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 03:09 PM) *
I didn't say anything about luck. They have done a great job of building a great defense, including hiring arguably the best DC in history.

It still doesn't convince me that Elway is a "win with defense" GM. He's trying to build the best team possible and doing a hell of a job, but I would guarantee he will be doing everything possible to build a great offense (centered around a QB) in recent years.

And the same argument applies to them that applies to the Eagles, except more so. They'll be drafting too late to have a realistic chance of getting their franchise QB. Maybe, but they have the defense now and it makes sense to capitalize on that while you have it. I'm not pushing to get rid of Bradford but Denver would be a good place for him and for them.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 24 2016, 02:44 PM) *
And the same argument applies to them that applies to the Eagles, except more so. They'll be drafting too late to have a realistic chance of getting their franchise QB. Maybe, but they have the defense now and it makes sense to capitalize on that while you have it. I'm not pushing to get rid of Bradford but Denver would be a good place for him and for them.

Denver is the perfect landing spot for a high upside guy who doesn't need to start immediately like Hack or Jones.
mcnabbulous
The thing about Denver is that unless they find a QB immediately, they are highly unlikely to get another title with their current squad. Can anyone think of a team that won multiple titles with multiple QBs in a short time period?
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 03:57 PM) *
Denver is the perfect landing spot for a high upside guy who doesn't need to start immediately like Hack or Jones.

I'm not sure they have the time to wait for a high upside guy.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 24 2016, 04:51 PM) *
I'm not sure they have the time to wait for a high upside guy.

The reality is that they are unlikely to win another SB as constructed. It just doesn't happen (or hasn't happened). Don't get me wrong, I realize it's hard for any team to win, but we just don't see situations where different QBs lead the same franchise to titles.

They can try to compete in the coming years, but I think they're better served trying to develop a guy who can be high end in 2-3 years. Otherwise, I see them having a series of 8-8 to 10-6 seasons until this defense is a shell of its current self.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 03:09 PM) *
I didn't say anything about luck. They have done a great job of building a great defense, including hiring arguably the best DC in history.

It still doesn't convince me that Elway is a "win with defense" GM. He's trying to build the best team possible and doing a hell of a job, but I would guarantee he will be doing everything possible to build a great offense (centered around a QB) in recent years.


Ok....now that we established he constructed a team with a great defense but to you that does not mean he knows you win with defense....it is just a happy accident(you are a peach).....so now we move on to the next point...

He drafted Osweiler?.....he offered Osweiler up to 16 Million dollars?....so it is pretty clear he wanted Osweiler but at their price......do you think he does not realize that Bradford will cost that much and may not be the guy they want?

If they could get him at 10 million a year for 3 years he might look but best case would be 2 years for 24 million and then a mega contract....

Having said that I won't be surprised to wake up tomorrow and find out that the Jets and the Broncos and San Fran got into a bidding war for him and the Eagles got a 1st and 2nd round pick and 3 players......right now it seems up is down and in is out......who flippin knows anymore...it is like Howie has ideas like a caller to WIP and acts on them..

and while I am yapping I had another thought....

Suppose Bradford pushes for a trade and Daniels has to play....and he sucks?......who has to justify or answer for his contract? I mean, for a guy who has less than 80 actual attempts in 6 years......and a sexy 6.0 YPA for all those YPA aficionados....
Joegrane
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 06:18 PM) *
I won't be surprised to wake up tomorrow and find out that the Jets and the Broncos and San Fran got into a bidding war for him and the Eagles got a 1st and 2nd round pick and 3 players......right now it seems up is down and in is out......who flippin knows anymore...it is like Howie has ideas like a caller to WIP and acts on them....


: ) So true! It has been crazy the past two years!

QUOTE
Suppose Bradford pushes for a trade and Daniels has to play....and he sucks?......who has to justify or answer for his contract? I mean, for a guy who has less than 80 actual attempts in 6 years......and a sexy 6.0 YPA for all those YPA aficionados....


And that was with a solid running game but with similarly mediocre WRs. You know opposing defenses will take their chances with an extra man in the box against Daniels and the Eagles mediocre WRs. We'll see if Ertz can make them pay.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 05:18 PM) *
Ok....now that we established he constructed a team with a great defense but to you that does not mean he knows you win with defense....it is just a happy accident(you are a peach).....so now we move on to the next point...

He was fortunate to have the #2 pick when the league's best defender came into the league. That helped.

They would be a very different defense without Miller.

QUOTE
He drafted Osweiler?.....he offered Osweiler up to 16 Million dollars?....so it is pretty clear he wanted Osweiler but at their price......do you think he does not realize that Bradford will cost that much and may not be the guy they want?

If they could get him at 10 million a year for 3 years he might look but best case would be 2 years for 24 million and then a mega contract....

Having said that I won't be surprised to wake up tomorrow and find out that the Jets and the Broncos and San Fran got into a bidding war for him and the Eagles got a 1st and 2nd round pick and 3 players......right now it seems up is down and in is out......who flippin knows anymore...it is like Howie has ideas like a caller to WIP and acts on them..

and while I am yapping I had another thought....

Suppose Bradford pushes for a trade and Daniels has to play....and he sucks?......who has to justify or answer for his contract? I mean, for a guy who has less than 80 actual attempts in 6 years......and a sexy 6.0 YPA for all those YPA aficionados....

I don't know how any of this has anything to do with me. I don't really think Denver wants any of these middle tier guys like Bradford or Kaep. I suspect they'll take a QB with one of their first two picks.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 07:07 PM) *
He was fortunate to have the #2 pick when the league's best defender came into the league. That helped.

They would be a very different defense without Miller.


and had he wanted to build his offensive juggernaut he would have taken AJ Green or Julio Jones....

By the way...the league's actual best defender went 9 picks after Miller....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 06:31 PM) *
and had he wanted to build his offensive juggernaut he would have taken AJ Green or Julio Jones....

By the way...the league's actual best defender went 9 picks after Miller....

Unless he acknowledges offenses are made or broken by the guy under center. Which I'm assuming he does. Cause he's John Elway.

And yeah, Watt is great. You can't go wrong with either guy.

I think Elway acknowledges that a balanced team with a great QB is the way to win championships. That's why he worked so hard to lure Manning to Denver. The fact that they got over the top when Manning was at the end of the line won't change that. Winning 40 games in the previous 3 regular seasons is a testament to that reality.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 05:18 PM) *
Suppose Bradford pushes for a trade and Daniels has to play....and he sucks?......who has to justify or answer for his contract? I mean, for a guy who has less than 80 actual attempts in 6 years......and a sexy 6.0 YPA for all those YPA aficionados....


Well, if he sucks, I'm sure it will be because of:

1. our shitty WR's
2. a new OC
3. playing with new guys
4. changes on the OL

devil03.gif

Actually, I think sucks is worse than he will play. I think he will be below average. 21-25 range. A few notches below Sam but not good enough. A 5-11 to 7-9 record with a decent pick for next year.

Marking time until the kid is ready.
mcnabbulous
You mean a decent pick for Cleveland next year.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 07:59 PM) *
You mean a decent pick for Cleveland next year.


Shit!

Yep forgot about that!!

All the more reason for CLE to trade for Sam.

To ensure Daniel starts so that THEY get a better 1st round pick.

They have a vested interest!!!

(See what I did there?)
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 24 2016, 04:00 PM) *
The thing about Denver is that unless they find a QB immediately, they are highly unlikely to get another title with their current squad. Can anyone think of a team that won multiple titles with multiple QBs in a short time period?


I don't think they need a real high upside guy...

They have a great defense and they have some serious offensive weapons.....you may be surprised at what an average QB can do with that.....

The question is how upset will Houston be when they realize just how mediocre Osweiler is...lol
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 24 2016, 08:13 PM) *
I don't think they need a real high upside guy...

They have a great defense and they have some serious offensive weapons.....you may be surprised at what an average QB can do with that.....

The question is how upset will Houston be when they realize just how mediocre Osweiler is...lol

I suspect last season was the high point of their defensive prowess. They were a border line top-10 all time defense. Repeating that isn't easy. They'll slowly fade back to a more reasonable place in relation to the league. Still good, but that will be tough to replicate.

They're going to need more out of their QBs moving forward. It's why Osweiller was benched for Manning to begin with.

And yeah, O'Brien will get the most out of him, but it won't be worth what they're paying him.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 24 2016, 08:43 PM) *
Well, if he sucks, I'm sure it will be because of:

1. our shitty WR's
2. a new OC
3. playing with new guys
4. changes on the OL

devil03.gif

Actually, I think sucks is worse than he will play. I think he will be below average. 21-25 range. A few notches below Sam but not good enough. A 5-11 to 7-9 record with a decent pick for next year.

Marking time until the kid is ready.


except the line is significantly upgraded and he is running the same offense he ran for the last few years..and the WRs are upgraded as well...so really, the only thing he would have is new guys....
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 25 2016, 01:59 AM) *
You mean a decent pick for Cleveland next year.

I'm glad that someone else is paying attention.

The cost to move up to #2 is expensive right now, but a shitty season will make it even worse.

On the basis that Bradford is better than Daniel, we can't afford to trade him.
Joegrane
Yes, without Bradford it will be a transition year to learn the O and D, evaluate young WRs, etc, develop Wentz, help to get better picks next year--for Cleveland : (

QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 25 2016, 03:13 AM) *
I'm glad that someone else is paying attention.

The cost to move up to #2 is expensive right now, but a shitty season will make it even worse.

On the basis that Bradford is better than Daniel, we can't afford to trade him.

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