Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Based on What You've Heard and Who You Believe
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
nephillymike
1. The Eagles were in significant discussions with the Titans to trade for the #1 pick in the draft.

Or

2. The Eagles were not in significant discussions with the Titans to trade for the #1 pick in the draft.

Which of the above do you think is more true?

By significant discussions, I mean they got to the point that there were offers and counter offers discussed by both parties for the purpose of trying to work out a deal. Not just a "kick the tires" conversation.


I believe, based on all we've heard from sources, that it is #1, we were in significant discussions.

Was curious as to what all other board members think on this.
Zero
No doubt it was #1 and I'm sure they'll be doing the same with Cleveland. What they end up doing will depend on who's available and what's the cost.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 17 2016, 09:27 AM) *
No doubt it was #1 and I'm sure they'll be doing the same with Cleveland. What they end up doing will depend on who's available and what's the cost.



The problem I have with the rumor is simple.....if they were in with an offer and the Titans were shopping than why pull the offer? Why not sweeten it...you are already all in what is another pick?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 17 2016, 08:39 AM) *
The problem I have with the rumor is simple.....if they were in with an offer and the Titans were shopping than why pull the offer? Why not sweeten it...you are already all in what is another pick?



Following the line of thinking to its conclusion. if there are three teams bidding to trade up for a player, and one is offering more than the other two and thus completes the deal, it doesn't me that the two "loser" bids were not real bids, nor does it mean that word of the two other teams' involvement were not accurate. There can only be one winning bid.

It would make sense that each team has it's limits to how much they will pay, right? One team may have gotten the deal because they had a 2nd round pick acquired the year before from another team involved in the bidding.

Howie normally does move ups and downs at a premium for what we give up and a discount for what we get. He was already in for a mid 4th premium, it was too rich for our blood. Doesn't mean he wasn't interested.

So if I understand you, you think that we were not in significant discussions?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 17 2016, 08:39 AM) *
The problem I have with the rumor is simple.....if they were in with an offer and the Titans were shopping than why pull the offer? Why not sweeten it...you are already all in what is another pick?

They didn't have the pick. The Rams had two 2's this year. How could we have made that up?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 17 2016, 10:50 AM) *
Following the line of thinking to its conclusion. if there are three teams bidding to trade up for a player, and one is offering more than the other two and thus completes the deal, it doesn't me that the two "loser" bids were not real bids, nor does it mean that word of the two other teams' involvement were not accurate. There can only be one winning bid.

It would make sense that each team has it's limits to how much they will pay, right? One team may have gotten the deal because they had a 2nd round pick acquired the year before from another team involved in the bidding.

Howie normally does move ups and downs at a premium for what we give up and a discount for what we get. He was already in for a mid 4th premium, it was too rich for our blood. Doesn't mean he wasn't interested.

So if I understand you, you think that we were not in significant discussions?


No...there is a difference between you and me...you see every rumor as fact...

I do not dispute there is a possibility that the they were in discussions.....but from all the rumors that swirled....if they were that deep into negotiations that an offer was made than why pull out so early? The Titans were not in a rush....they had all the time in the world to weigh offers.....there was no gun to their head. Certainly the Eagles may have been involved....they may have made an offer....at this time of year it is so hard to tell what teams really do or don't do because it is all rumor and speculation.

AGain, I do not discount that there were discussions....I just don't believe, out of hand, that each and every report is true...particularly the details of an offer....if you recall all the rumors of our "offer" to the Titans last year which now appear to be wildly inaccurate.....I am surprised there was no Fletcher Cox involved in this offer rumor this time...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 17 2016, 10:30 AM) *
No...there is a difference between you and me...you see every rumor as fact...

I do not dispute there is a possibility that the they were in discussions.....but from all the rumors that swirled....if they were that deep into negotiations that an offer was made than why pull out so early? The Titans were not in a rush....they had all the time in the world to weigh offers.....there was no gun to their head. Certainly the Eagles may have been involved....they may have made an offer....at this time of year it is so hard to tell what teams really do or don't do because it is all rumor and speculation.

AGain, I do not discount that there were discussions....I just don't believe, out of hand, that each and every report is true...particularly the details of an offer....if you recall all the rumors of our "offer" to the Titans last year which now appear to be wildly inaccurate.....I am surprised there was no Fletcher Cox involved in this offer rumor this time...



No I don't believe every rumor.

I will post many of them here for discussion, but I don't believe them all.

Now when sources I respect back up a rumor, I will believe it.

I think this one has enough support to be believed.

Forget about every report. Do you believe the Eagles had significant interest with TEN?
nephillymike
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000065...e-for-no-1-pick

Read the paragraph about the Browns interest in Bradford last year.

If they had a deal that they were about to do for a 1st round pick with STL last year for Bradford, do you guys see Bradford as worthless to them THIS year?

Does what they saw last year from Sam make him more attractive or less attractive to them?

I think, if nothing else, the injury concerns should make him a safer choice than last year, right? If they view his entire season performance than they would lose interest, but if they took the last six or so games, then maybe that makes him more attractive and safer than last year.

CLE could value Bradford and ironically, that may be the chip we have to make us the best suitor for them in a move up.

If they thought long and hard about giving up a 1st, is out of the realm of possibility that they'd give up a 2nd or 3rd for him this year? I guess RG3 could muddy the water, but that guy is broken and I'm guessing they didn't make promises.
mcnabbulous
Cleveland had an entirely different FO and coaching staff last year. It's apples and oranges.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 17 2016, 11:44 AM) *
No I don't believe every rumor.

I will post many of them here for discussion, but I don't believe them all.

Now when sources I respect back up a rumor, I will believe it.

I think this one has enough support to be believed.

Forget about every report. Do you believe the Eagles had significant interest with TEN?



Like you presenting the "Eagles trade all their picks and half their defense to the Titans for Mariota" had support?

It would not surprise me that the Eagles talked to Tennessee about the price.....how far those talks went is where I have doubts.....and for several reasons.....and here is where I am surprised that you are not more skeptical

Howie is a draft junkie type guy....he knows all to well what it takes to trade picks to move up and move down....he also knows the landscape in regards to other teams and their needs. Going into such a venture he would know from the start that he was outgunned.....so if he is all in enough to make an offer than why stop? He knew from the start he was setting the floor.....he knew other teams both need a QB and had better picks to trade this year. If you take the leap do you jump out right away? Something makes no sense.....if Howie was a dolt I could write it off as inexperience but while he may not be a stud evaluator of talent he is very good at making deals.

So yes, something is very fishy when you look at the big picture.....you could argue that maybe he thought that the Titans would jump at the first offer but that would be extremely naive of you....Howie is not that foolish.

Having seen this scenario last year where all the details of an Eagles offer that never happened were bandied about as fact by these same "experts" gives me pause.....La Canfora and Schefter are wrong more than half the time which makes them better than most but they still report mostly rumor and occasionally facts.
Dreagon
Well, unless he's inheriting a proven star, pretty much every new coach wants to get his own qb to run his schemes and be the face of his team. Keeping that in mind, I can see your coach pressing for them to at least give a trade with the Titans a serious try. Although at the same time I don't know how much say a coach would have in you guys organization right now.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Apr 17 2016, 03:18 PM) *
Well, unless he's inheriting a proven star, pretty much every new coach wants to get his own qb to run his schemes and be the face of his team. Keeping that in mind, I can see your coach pressing for them to at least give a trade with the Titans a serious try. Although at the same time I don't know how much say a coach would have in you guys organization right now.



Hey D,

Give me your top five choices for you for the Cowboys in this year's draft. All positions and assume for this, that all are available. You should have some real good talent at #4.
D Rock
My question is "why does it matter?" Whether due diligence, or mad desire to move up, it doesn't matter in the end. I don't fault them for trying, or wanting to move up. But it wouldn't surprise me if their interest was just exploratory. Ultimately, if we had given up what the Lambs did, I'd be pissed.

I may be in the minority here, but if given the option of Goff, Wentz, or Bradford, I'm going with Bradford. Add in the fact that Bradford allows you to keep nearly a half dozen draft picks over the next 2 drafts and it's a no-brainer.

Now if Goff or Wentz fell to us at 8, or even 6 where we could leap frog SF to get em, I'd think that worth the gamble. But to trade away your future for someone NOT named Manning, or Luck, is foolish in my eyes. And let's be crystal clear here. Goff and Wentz are no Manning or Luck. Hell, for all we know, they're no Sam Bradford either.



Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 17 2016, 11:30 AM) *
I do not dispute there is a possibility that the they were in discussions.....but from all the rumors that swirled....if they were that deep into negotiations that an offer was made than why pull out so early?

Seeing as this is all guesswork, maybe Howie heard that the Rams were interested in "the other" QB, not the one he wanted. Mix that with "too rich" and they withdraw.
Dreagon
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 17 2016, 04:05 PM) *
Hey D,

Give me your top five choices for you for the Cowboys in this year's draft. All positions and assume for this, that all are available. You should have some real good talent at #4.


#1 Wentz - I think we'll get about two more years out of Romo and Wentz would be ready by then.
#2 Goff - He would be ready faster, but would probably have to wait just as long.
#3. Ramsey - Since it looks like Wentz and Goff are going to be gone, this is the guy I'm crossing my fingers will fall to them.
#4. Myles Jack - We can't keep signing our middle linebacker to one year contracts
#5. Buckner - Because we already have one high draft pick defensive end suspended due to drug violations and we don't need to risk Bosa joining him.

I also wouldn't object if they trade down five or ten spots and then pick up Lynch. This year is our best chance to build for the future beyond Romo and I hate to see us throw that away.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 17 2016, 06:13 PM) *
Seeing as this is all guesswork, maybe Howie heard that the Rams were interested in "the other" QB, not the one he wanted. Mix that with "too rich" and they withdraw.



That's the hope.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Apr 17 2016, 06:25 PM) *
#1 Wentz - I think we'll get about two more years out of Romo and Wentz would be ready by then.
#2 Goff - He would be ready faster, but would probably have to wait just as long.
#3. Ramsey - Since it looks like Wentz and Goff are going to be gone, this is the guy I'm crossing my fingers will fall to them.
#4. Myles Jack - We can't keep signing our middle linebacker to one year contracts
#5. Buckner - Because we already have one high draft pick defensive end suspended due to drug violations and we don't need to risk Bosa joining him.

I also wouldn't object if they trade down five or ten spots and then pick up Lynch. This year is our best chance to build for the future beyond Romo and I hate to see us throw that away.


I like Ramsey a lot too. One concern though. They're not sure if he's a CB or S. How can that be and him be so high a talent.

I think he needs to be a CB to be that highly rated.

Jack's medical update came back with mixed reviews.

Buckner is solid. More of a 3-4 than 4-3 from what they say. #7 talent as a 3-4, #15 talent as a 4-3 per Draftek.

No Hargraeves? Don't you need a CB?
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 17 2016, 04:23 PM) *
My question is "why does it matter?" Whether due diligence, or mad desire to move up, it doesn't matter in the end. I don't fault them for trying, or wanting to move up. But it wouldn't surprise me if their interest was just exploratory. Ultimately, if we had given up what the Lambs did, I'd be pissed.

I may be in the minority here, but if given the option of Goff, Wentz, or Bradford, I'm going with Bradford. Add in the fact that Bradford allows you to keep nearly a half dozen draft picks over the next 2 drafts and it's a no-brainer.

Now if Goff or Wentz fell to us at 8, or even 6 where we could leap frog SF to get em, I'd think that worth the gamble. But to trade away your future for someone NOT named Manning, or Luck, is foolish in my eyes. And let's be crystal clear here. Goff and Wentz are no Manning or Luck. Hell, for all we know, they're no Sam Bradford either.


I hear you.

Despite my ramblings about trading up, I am a firm believer in trading down. Experience shows that the draft chart is way too top heavy and the over whelming majority of the time, trading down is more profitable. Without a doubt.

What makes this a little different for me is that the great majority of top 15 QB's are top ten picks. Out of all positions, QB is a top heavy draft. Not that there is a great success rate among QB's drafted high, it's just that the top 15 QB's majority come from top of the draft. 8 of the top 15 come from #11 or hihger, 7 of 15 from #4 or higher, 13 of 15 from before our 3rd round pick (#77). I don't think we're going to be this close any time soon, and more importantly, there will not likely be teams drafting so high who don't need a QB. Most years the top teams need them. A contributing factor for me is I'm not high on Bradford. I'd like to believe he can be a good QB, but I don't see it.

What would concern me if I were someone sold on Bradford like you and RF, is why are the Eagles brass so intent on drafting a QB when they have still young enough Bradford and Daniel and a plethora of other needs? Out of everyone, they should know. They paid a shit load of money for their QB's and yet if TEN accepts the deal, we have the #1 pick for a QB. Why would they ever do that if they were sold on Bradford? Answer is, they wouldn't. For me, that's reassuring. For you and RF, that's got to be a big concern. I say all of this with a normal big preference for trading down.

in 11 days, we'll know for sure.

All things aside, I love the draft. It gives me my fix of football in a slow time of the year.
Reality Fan
It really is not a big concern for me....I like Bradord to be our QB but if they traded him tomorrow than I would be fine. He is not my cousin..lol...I just don't want them to mortgage their future to gamble on guys who are not a sure fire success. Remember...this is all hype generated at this time of year....even Ray Diddy is not sold on either guy.

I am merely looking at their moves to date and giving Howie some credit for not being a total moron....maybe that is a mistake but so far he has seemed to execute a fairly solid off season plan.....making a trade like this after what he has done would make little sense.
Joegrane
Generally I'm not disagreeing with your thinking; however after what they've done in free agency I would be *less* surprised if they traded up to #2.

They've filled almost all of their holes except at QB, maybe depth at RB and LB, neither of which have to be filled in the first two rounds.

Also they may already feel confident that they'll get something for SamB although it would be hard for me to believe it will be multiple picks or Denver's #1. They get a conditional 7th for Sanchez which is less than I would have expected.

Would they move up except in a three-way deal where they know the compensation for SamB? I doubt that I would.

If they move Sam, they free up cap space for free agents at positions that might have been filled in the draft--RB, maybe CB, WR, etc.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 17 2016, 08:32 PM) *
It really is not a big concern for me....I like Bradord to be our QB but if they traded him tomorrow than I would be fine. He is not my cousin..lol...I just don't want them to mortgage their future to gamble on guys who are not a sure fire success. Remember...this is all hype generated at this time of year....even Ray Diddy is not sold on either guy.

I am merely looking at their moves to date and giving Howie some credit for not being a total moron....maybe that is a mistake but so far he has seemed to execute a fairly solid off season plan.....making a trade like this after what he has done would make little sense.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Apr 17 2016, 09:08 PM) *
Generally I'm not disagreeing with your thinking; however after what they've done in free agency I would be *less* surprised if they traded up to #2.

They've filled almost all of their holes except at QB, maybe depth at RB and LB, neither of which have to be filled in the first two rounds.

Also they may already feel confident that they'll get something for SamB although it would be hard for me to believe it will be multiple picks or Denver's #1. They get a conditional 7th for Sanchez which is less than I would have expected.

Would they move up except in a three-way deal where they know the compensation for SamB? I doubt that I would.

If they move Sam, they free up cap space for free agents at positions that might have been filled in the draft--RB, maybe CB, WR, etc.


Nabby mentioned the new GM and coaching staff in CLE. Assuming they cleaned house, then there probably isn't much interest in Bradford. But if any of the old pro scouting department is still there, it would make sense that there could be some interest. I don't know if there are any holdovers, but if so, then maybe they would be interested in Sam, which woul d make us the trading partner of choice. Not sure if that is the case. I hope it is, because it would allow us to undo a shitload of money in the QB position when we're taking a kid at #2.
Dreagon
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 17 2016, 06:32 PM) *
I like Ramsey a lot too. One concern though. They're not sure if he's a CB or S. How can that be and him be so high a talent.

I think he needs to be a CB to be that highly rated.

Jack's medical update came back with mixed reviews.

Buckner is solid. More of a 3-4 than 4-3 from what they say. #7 talent as a 3-4, #15 talent as a 4-3 per Draftek.

No Hargraeves? Don't you need a CB?


I imagine we would use him at safety and try to pair him with Byron Jones since Scandrick is coming back from his injury and we seem content to keep paying Carr the big money (don't ask me why)

Even if we have to sit Myles Jack for half a season or more to let him fully heal, he would be worth the pick.

Buckner might be a reach for us that high, but I'm just terrified of Jerry taking Bosa and then have him fail a drug test once he's getting paid.

There has actually been some talk of Hargreaves in the papers down here, so you might have a point.

It's odd because when your team drafts this high you usually have a better idea of who they are going to take.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.