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Zero
Assuming the reports of the Eagles' attempt to trade with Tennessee are true, it's pretty clear they want either Goff or Wentz, presumably Wentz. Giving up that much to get a player sure seems to say they don't see Bradford as the answer, and with all of the reports about their attempt to trade up Bradford must believe his stay in Brotherly Love really is part time. So, are they now committed to drafting not "a" QB but "the" QB?

How cute is Howie being? Are we seeing a bunch of smoke or are all these reports and rumors true? I believe they love Wentz, but at what price? He's going to need time to adjust to the NFL but that seems to be the way the team has structured both the roster and the coaching staff ... to have time to coach/teach a top talent. How much difference is there between Wentz, Goff and Lynch?

I'd love to know how they rate the top 3. There are some who apparently think Lynch could be the top talent. Even if he's not, but has the necessaries to become a franchise QB with time and coaching, would it make more sense to draft him instead of trading away a lot of potential?

If a player has all the measurables ... size, accuracy, brains, athleticism, leadership, etc. but not the scheme experience, can he be coached to be a franchise QB? How easy is it to ruin a true talent by forcing him to play before he's ready or before the rest of the team is ready to help him? This is where the Rams may be making a huge mistake. If they expect their guy to start, with the surrounding talent on that offense and the dearth of picks to add talent they may ruining another QB.
Joegrane
The Rams' draft last year was heavy on offense. They certainly have the running game to take some pressure off the rookie. They have a decent D. The are moving to a new city and want to build excitement. What more could they do than draft the home-town hero QB to make a splash and fill the biggest need on the team. Goff is probably reasonably NFL ready. Foles is a "character athlete", someone who should be a good mentor. I think they made a good decision.

QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 16 2016, 07:08 AM) *
....

If a player has all the measurables ... size, accuracy, brains, athleticism, leadership, etc. but not the scheme experience, can he be coached to be a franchise QB? How easy is it to ruin a true talent by forcing him to play before he's ready or before the rest of the team is ready to help him? This is where the Rams may be making a huge mistake. If they expect their guy to start, with the surrounding talent on that offense and the dearth of picks to add talent they may ruining another QB.

Dreagon
Lynch at eight would be a reach. You could probably trade down five or six spots and get him with something else on the side. Hell, come to think of it, I wouldn't even mind if Jerry did that.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Apr 16 2016, 12:20 PM) *
The Rams' draft last year was heavy on offense. They certainly have the running game to take some pressure off the rookie. They have a decent D. The are moving to a new city and want to build excitement. What more could they do than draft the home-town hero QB to make a splash and fill the biggest need on the team. Goff is probably reasonably NFL ready. Foles is a "character athlete", someone who should be a good mentor. I think they made a good decision.



ummm...Foles is getting cut....lol.....Fisher all but said it already...
D Rock
Wentz, Goff, or Lynch?

I'd stay with Bradford.
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 17 2016, 05:30 PM) *
Wentz, Goff, or Lynch?

I'd stay with Bradford.

Curiously, why? Are you sold on Bradford or is that his unknown potential has yet to be fully explored? Given how hard you had/have been on McNabb and his shortcoming's I would have thought that a 6 year experiment would be enough for you to determine Bradford's value.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 18 2016, 01:52 AM) *
Curiously, why? Are you sold on Bradford or is that his unknown potential has yet to be fully explored? Given how hard you had/have been on McNabb and his shortcoming's I would have thought that a 6 year experiment would be enough for you to determine Bradford's value.

Bradford isn't a top 10 quarterback. But he's in the next group. These other guys are not. If Goff or Wentz fall to 8, then I'd gladly take em. But I wouldn't mortgage the future to move up to #2 to get either. So too, Lynch is not worth #8 IMO. I'd be ok with taking him after trading back and adding a day 2 pick.

Clearly, we differ on Bradford. I tend to think the 2nd half of last season (after shaking off the rust of NOT PLAYING FOR TWO YEARS) with a predictable, vanilla offense, shitty O-line play, shitty running game, and keystone cops as WRs, is more indicative of what we can expect from Sam than anything he did in St Louis or the first 6 games last season. I get that you don't agree. But that's where I stand.
Reality Fan
I do enjoy the "Bradford has not lived up to potential" folks....I mentioned it here previously regarding the absolute crap he had at WR in STL but if folks want I can provide the spreadsheet I did to demonstrate it (yes, I was bored).....It really is a horrible group......

If it wasn't for Steven Jackson it would have been nearly criminal.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 18 2016, 04:40 PM) *
I do enjoy the "Bradford has not lived up to potential" folks....I mentioned it here previously regarding the absolute crap he had at WR in STL but if folks want I can provide the spreadsheet I did to demonstrate it (yes, I was bored).....It really is a horrible group......

If it wasn't for Steven Jackson it would have been nearly criminal.....

Even still, great QB's usually elevate the talent around them. That is the expectation. Sam was drafted under the premise that he was going to be a great QB. He has rarely resembled even a good one.

He's definitely lacked an adequate supporting cast, but ultimately that excuse can only take you so far. He needs to step up this year in a big way. I have my doubts, but remain hopeful.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 18 2016, 05:50 PM) *
Even still, great QB's usually elevate the talent around them. That is the expectation. Sam was drafted under the premise that he was going to be a great QB. He has rarely resembled even a good one.

He's definitely lacked an adequate supporting cast, but ultimately that excuse can only take you so far. He needs to step up this year in a big way. I have my doubts, but remain hopeful.


As I have said....he will have no excuse this year....with the addition of Randle the Eagles have a serviceable set of WRs...

Now we will see if he is good or bad
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 18 2016, 05:11 PM) *
As I have said....he will have no excuse this year....with the addition of Randle the Eagles have a serviceable set of WRs...

Now we will see if he is good or bad

I suspect we will find he's neither. He'll be right there in the sweet spot between the two, which is largely what he has been his whole career.
Joegrane
That probably suits Howie just fine for this year--a contract year. They just need him to show that he can be an above-average QB when surrounded by above average talent. When combined with an excellent D, that's enough to make a deep run in the playoffs.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 18 2016, 08:19 PM) *
I suspect we will find he's neither. He'll be right there in the sweet spot between the two, which is largely what he has been his whole career.

nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 18 2016, 07:19 PM) *
I suspect we will find he's neither. He'll be right there in the sweet spot between the two, which is largely what he has been his whole career.



I think his stats for his career have been really bad.

His stats overall for last year were bad.

His stats for the last 7 games of last year were good.

I don't think his overall performance in his career can be argued to be anything but bad.

However, reasons for that performance (injury, WR's, OL, coaching, new systems) can be debated.

He returns for 2016 with two of those excuses in tact, so I don't think we will have any consensus on his performance after this year either.

We're giving him a lot of money for the chance to turn it around. Gotta keep fingers crossed and hope he does for the sake of the board and the team. One thing he has going for him is he is likeable which makes it easier to hope he does well.
JeeQ
Their eyes are on Elliot... everything else is a smoke screen
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 20 2016, 05:01 AM) *
His stats for the last 7 games of last year were good.

Yeah, I was being fairly generous. Although his stats were average his half healthy season in St. Louis. That's what I think he is. Average.

Basically that's what he is. An average QB who has historically struggled to stay healthy.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 20 2016, 10:48 AM) *
Yeah, I was being fairly generous. Although his stats were average his half healthy season in St. Louis. That's what I think he is. Average.

Basically that's what he is. An average QB who has historically struggled to stay healthy.


Ok...first...his struggle to stay healthy? Blame his Doc for doing a shitty job on his knee the first time. Andrews obviously did a better job on round 2....maybe he realized what he did wrong the first time. Last year he was relatively healthy considering the absolute beating he took.

Second....being average when you are playing with absolute dogshit at the WR position is an accomplishment....

But lets play your silly game.....his last year that he played in STL was his best where he had 14 TDs vs. 4 picks before going down in game 7. Who were his WRs? Chris Givens (now our 4th or 5th WR), Austin Pettis, Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey, Brian Quick...oh, and don't forget his stud RB, Zac Stacy....now tell me....which one of these studs helped Bradford climb tot he heights of mediocrity? Tell em how his quarterbacking held up the talent of this mess of a roster.....I am dying to hear....talk about making something out of nothing...

You keep talking as if Bradford has been in the league for 10 years.....he has played less than 4 1/2 seasons for Christ sake....knee injuries can do that....so in 3 1/2 years he was rookie of the year......and on pace to have a great season before his knee went.....so he had one mediocre year...his 2nd....and last year he rehabbed and came back from his knee and eventually turned into the QB many thought he could be, again with subpar WRs except Matthews...

Of course....somehow, to you, 14 TDs/ 4 picks in 7 games is average to you.....so, there is that.....yeah.....
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 20 2016, 04:23 PM) *
Second....being average when you are playing with absolute dogshit at the WR position is an accomplishment....


Of course....somehow, to you, 14 TDs/ 4 picks in 7 games is average to you.....so, there is that.....yeah.....

jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif
mcnabbulous
You guys can play the 'Sam Bradford apologist' role all season long. I'm done with it. Even at his best, he dinked and dunked his way to a 6.4ypa. That's what he is.

Like I said, I don't think he's bad. He's just not good either.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 20 2016, 11:39 AM) *
You guys can play the 'Sam Bradford apologist' role all season long. I'm done with it. Even at his best, he dinked and dunked his way to a 6.4ypa. That's what he is.

Like I said, I don't think he's bad. He's just not good either.


Your done with what? Ignoring the garbage he played with? Please, I beg you, support your point with one shred of proof as to a decent WR he had before Matthews.....you are done with trotting out a point of view that is completely bereft of evidence? If ti wasn't for having STeven Jackson he would have played with arguably the worst supporting cast any QB was ever tasked with succeeding with.....oh wait...maybe Brandon Gibson is a future HOF candidate.

I get it...when the facts get in the way it is best to cut and run.
Pila
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 20 2016, 03:51 PM) *
Your done with what? Ignoring the garbage he played with? Please, I beg you, support your point with one shred of proof as to a decent WR he had before Matthews.....you are done with trotting out a point of view that is completely bereft of evidence? If ti wasn't for having STeven Jackson he would have played with arguably the worst supporting cast any QB was ever tasked with succeeding with.....oh wait...maybe Brandon Gibson is a future HOF candidate.

I get it...when the facts get in the way it is best to cut and run.

It's the argument that set the selection of statistics, rather than the other around.

That's why I use what I saw instead of selecting whatever convenient statistical frame. And what I saw was a very good QB play the position the way I've seen other very good QBs play it for the second half of the season.

And what that convinced me of is that Bradford is a very QB once he knocked his rust off from a two-year absence.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 20 2016, 10:51 AM) *
Your done with what? Ignoring the garbage he played with? Please, I beg you, support your point with one shred of proof as to a decent WR he had before Matthews.....you are done with trotting out a point of view that is completely bereft of evidence? If ti wasn't for having STeven Jackson he would have played with arguably the worst supporting cast any QB was ever tasked with succeeding with.....oh wait...maybe Brandon Gibson is a future HOF candidate.

I get it...when the facts get in the way it is best to cut and run.

Done with making excuses for the guy. Yeah, his supporting cast sucked in St. Louis. I still watched him for 14 games last year and basically every criticism of his play with the Rams reared its ugly head.

I simply think he is what he is. I don't understand what you're trying to prove at this point. You have no evidence that he's anything beyond an average QB. You're hoping that an improved supporting cast will prove him to be different. I don't expect it to.

Time will tell, but the evidence to date supports my opinion. Even in his "magical" seven game stretch to end the season, he only threw 10 TDs. Consider me unimpressed by his QBR.
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