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GroundedBird
Evidently there's some rumors about Wilkerson coming to the Eagles.

Wilkerson link

wonder what we have to give the Jets to get him.

Think Cox is being packaged to move up?
mcnabbulous
If we could get Wilkerson and then trade Cox for a return that included a second round pick, I'd be open to it. If Cox would only give us the opportunity to move up for Wentz, then I would pass.

I love Cox, but Wilkerson is a stud and if we can get a huge haul for him, it might be worth it.

The Franchise
QUOTE (GroundedBird @ Apr 8 2016, 02:44 PM) *
Think Cox is being packaged to move up?


Hopefully not. Have we yet to learn the value of a proven NFL player? Unless we're getting a ridiculous offer, keep him.
Reality Fan
Wilkerson is already tagged and the Eagles do not have the cap space to absorb him.....even ridding themselves of Cox would not free up nearly enough cap space...and Wilkerson has all the leverage to negotiate the same monster deal that Cox wants...I have no idea why the morons who trot this stuff out don't look at the entire picture..

Makes no Cap sense..
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 8 2016, 04:19 PM) *
Wilkerson is already tagged and the Eagles do not have the cap space to absorb him.....even ridding themselves of Cox would not free up nearly enough cap space...and Wilkerson has all the leverage to negotiate the same monster deal that Cox wants...I have no idea why the morons who trot this stuff out don't look at the entire picture..

Makes no Cap sense..

The reality is that cap is a non-factor since contracts can be renegotiated.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 8 2016, 09:13 PM) *
The reality is that cap is a non-factor since contracts can be renegotiated.


You keep saying that and it shows you do not understand the cap that well. I agree that many times there is wiggle room but Wilkerson has already been tagged for 17 Million if I recall correctly.....that means he has all the leverage. You can renegotiate when the other guy has a reason to do so. Furthermore the Eagles have about 6 million in cap space left after the rookie pool. The money simply is not there unless they get rid of Cox which seems unlikely since he is much like Wilkerson or they cut Peters, again unlikely.

To think the cap is not a factor is silly...if that was the case the Jets would never look to unload Wilkerson....ithe thing you say is a non factor is the very reason the Jets might look to do it.....funny they can't just renegotiate it huh?
mcnabbulous
I think if they were acquiring Wilkerson, Cox would be gone. And part of that would be dependent on negotiating a deal with Wilkerson.

There are a lot of moving parts, which makes it unlikely, but it's not completely ridiculous. Especially if they think they can get more for Cox than they have to pay for Wilkerson.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 8 2016, 11:58 PM) *
I think if they were acquiring Wilkerson, Cox would be gone. And part of that would be dependent on negotiating a deal with Wilkerson.

There are a lot of moving parts, which makes it unlikely, but it's not completely ridiculous. Especially if they think they can get more for Cox than they have to pay for Wilkerson.


At issue is renegotiating with Wilkerson. He already has the tag which means he has all the leverage. He will likely more expensive than Cox.

nephillymike
The guy has some leverage.

He gets 17 M guaranteed, this year. If he does nothing he still gets that and the team still has the cap sting.

However, the team holds the key to give him more guaranteed money in a new deal. We've seen deals where that guaranteed # is in excess of $40M. That would seem to be $23M reasons for him to negotiate.

It's a no brainer they can't do both.

But they could trade Cox and remove his $8M cap hit and do a new deal with Wilk. and the cap hit of a new deal could be approx that figure and the Eagles would not have a cap space issue.

Not sure why they just wouldn't do that with Cox, but cap wise, they could swap the two as long as a long term deal was done.

With either player, it comes down to whether either of them are worth FMV, which is close to Suh money, and the answer is unfortunately, no.

So then you just pay him the 8M this year, franchise him for whatever next year, and then part ways or trade him some time in that two year period.

Just for kicks, what do you think Cox' trade value is in draft picks, given his talent, current cap value and likely future contracts and future cap value?

I say he's worth a legit mid first round pick, 16 up to 8. There's enough cap money left in the league that there should be a market for him.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 9 2016, 11:23 AM) *
The guy has some leverage.

He gets 17 M guaranteed, this year. If he does nothing he still gets that and the team still has the cap sting.

However, the team holds the key to give him more guaranteed money in a new deal. We've seen deals where that guaranteed # is in excess of $40M. That would seem to be $23M reasons for him to negotiate.

It's a no brainer they can't do both.

But they could trade Cox and remove his $8M cap hit and do a new deal with Wilk. and the cap hit of a new deal could be approx that figure and the Eagles would not have a cap space issue.

Not sure why they just wouldn't do that with Cox, but cap wise, they could swap the two as long as a long term deal was done.

With either player, it comes down to whether either of them are worth FMV, which is close to Suh money, and the answer is unfortunately, no.


You make my point....why do it for WIlkerson and not for Cox.....that would seem to make little sense in the wake of Curry's deal. You also have Graham getting good money and Barwin making decent money. Wilkerson could play end at times but you have several.....only if Cox goes is there a place for Wilkerson.

Now on to Wilkerson's leverage....you are another one who seems to think it is so easy....if that were the case than why did the Jets not already "negotiate" the deal? Why is Cox not already "renegotiated"? I mean, come on, it is so "easy" and the cap space is not an "issue". It is an issue, a huge issue. It may not be an issue for Jax et al because those teams have a lot of cap room. The Eagles do not and all the deals they have given out are not going to help matters. They currently have over 155 million on the books for 2017. While the cap will rise and they can release some of that money you can see how there is a limit. Guys like Logan will be up for a new deal. Cox or a reasonable facsimile will be added to that. Then all the FAs on one year deals will have their hands out. What if Wis is a good guard? Or Randle a bona fide number 2? Donnie Jones will get a few million.

Oh yeah....piece of cake...the cap means nothing....
Eagle2720
How about we get real controversial, forget about the cap and live completely in fantasy land, we trade Peters and the early 3rd for Mo? Slide Lane to LT, and then trade back and take Conklin or Decker. One can only dream.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 8 2016, 11:48 PM) *
You keep saying that and it shows you do not understand the cap that well.

I understand it well enough to know that every time a team is considered to be in cap trouble, they find a way to make it work.

QUOTE
To think the cap is not a factor is silly...if that was the case the Jets would never look to unload Wilkerson....ithe thing you say is a non factor is the very reason the Jets might look to do it.....funny they can't just renegotiate it huh?

If NYJ chooses to get rid of him it will be because they couldn't negotiate a contract that they feel works for them, not because of the cap.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 9 2016, 11:00 AM) *
You make my point....why do it for WIlkerson and not for Cox.....that would seem to make little sense in the wake of Curry's deal. You also have Graham getting good money and Barwin making decent money. Wilkerson could play end at times but you have several.....only if Cox goes is there a place for Wilkerson.

Now on to Wilkerson's leverage....you are another one who seems to think it is so easy....if that were the case than why did the Jets not already "negotiate" the deal? Why is Cox not already "renegotiated"? I mean, come on, it is so "easy" and the cap space is not an "issue". It is an issue, a huge issue. It may not be an issue for Jax et al because those teams have a lot of cap room. The Eagles do not and all the deals they have given out are not going to help matters. They currently have over 155 million on the books for 2017. While the cap will rise and they can release some of that money you can see how there is a limit. Guys like Logan will be up for a new deal. Cox or a reasonable facsimile will be added to that. Then all the FAs on one year deals will have their hands out. What if Wis is a good guard? Or Randle a bona fide number 2? Donnie Jones will get a few million.

Oh yeah....piece of cake...the cap means nothing....


I am not following you. Maybe you are practicing your alcohol tolerance for our meeting in a few weeks so that you are not an embarrassing light weight in front of heavyweights like Z and I, and that's Ok. Nothing wrong with that on a Sat afternoon!!

You can look up the Eagles cap and see Fletch hits the cap for 7.8M this year. Mo is on for a franchised 15.7 (BTW, unclear on the site if he has singed the tender)

If we kept him and signed Mo, then it IS a cap problem. But I don't think that was what anyone was suggesting.

However, if you agree that the deal Cox is seeking probably approximates what Suh or Dareus got, then you can look here and see that the year 1 cap charge for Suh's and Dareus deals were 6.1M and 7.8M respectively. That compares at least equal to Fletch's current deal. So there is no cap problem for this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/defensive-tackle/

Now long term, all guaranteed money comes out of the cap, and to the extent he gets the $60M guaranteed that the other two got, then that will all flow through our cap unless he is traded after the new deal. BTW, Mo's incentive to get a new deal is much more than the 23M I mentioned. How about $44.3M reasons? (60.0-15.7).

What am I missing with your cap argument and Mo's lack of incentive?

While it may not be a cap issue, it could be a cash issue. Maybe Jeff has a limit to what he can pay and doesn't think that the DT is a position to go to the max on. When a team pays $34M of guarantees in total to TWO Qbs with less than stellar careers, I guess even Jeff has his limits and that may have to come from somewhere.

On a related note, in your view of a cohesive off season by our team, why would Howie be so gushing about Fletch and a new deal early in the off season, only to now be eerily silent? Howie doesn't seem to be cheap with Jeff's money this off season if other deals are any example, and he had to know he was dealing with at least Dareus #'s of expectations. Why all the chatter by Don Howie? Was he full of it and never had intentions of resigning him and was solely saying it to build up Cox's value for a trade to mislead other teams? (like all of the trips and meetings with QB's as a smoke screen to hid our lack of ANY interest in 1st round QB's). Or is he a "what you see is what you get" and what he said re Cox are his intentions like his QB interest visits and meetings are of his draft intentions?


Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 9 2016, 02:45 PM) *
I am not following you. Maybe you are practicing your alcohol tolerance for our meeting in a few weeks so that you are not an embarrassing light weight in front of heavyweights like Z and I, and that's Ok. Nothing wrong with that on a Sat afternoon!!

You can look up the Eagles cap and see Fletch hits the cap for 7.8M this year. Mo is on for a franchised 15.7 (BTW, unclear on the site if he has singed the tender)

If we kept him and signed Mo, then it IS a cap problem. But I don't think that was what anyone was suggesting.

However, if you agree that the deal Cox is seeking probably approximates what Suh or Dareus got, then you can look here and see that the year 1 cap charge for Suh's and Dareus deals were 6.1M and 7.8M respectively. That compares at least equal to Fletch's current deal. So there is no cap problem for this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/defensive-tackle/

Now long term, all guaranteed money comes out of the cap, and to the extent he gets the $60M guaranteed that the other two got, then that will all flow through our cap unless he is traded after the new deal. BTW, Mo's incentive to get a new deal is much more than the 23M I mentioned. How about $44.3M reasons? (60.0-15.7).

What am I missing with your cap argument and Mo's lack of incentive?

While it may not be a cap issue, it could be a cash issue. Maybe Jeff has a limit to what he can pay and doesn't think that the DT is a position to go to the max on. When a team pays $34M of guarantees in total to TWO Qbs with less than stellar careers, I guess even Jeff has his limits and that may have to come from somewhere.

On a related note, in your view of a cohesive off season by our team, why would Howie be so gushing about Fletch and a new deal early in the off season, only to now be eerily silent? Howie doesn't seem to be cheap with Jeff's money this off season if other deals are any example, and he had to know he was dealing with at least Dareus #'s of expectations. Why all the chatter by Don Howie? Was he full of it and never had intentions of resigning him and was solely saying it to build up Cox's value for a trade to mislead other teams? (like all of the trips and meetings with QB's as a smoke screen to hid our lack of ANY interest in 1st round QB's). Or is he a "what you see is what you get" and what he said re Cox are his intentions like his QB interest visits and meetings are of his draft intentions?



I am sober and if I wasn't reading all that mush would do the job. You completely miss the entirety of the cap picture beyond this year as well as the fact that WIlkerson will be MORE expensive than Cox. Now as far as WIlkerson's leverage? HE is going to get paid wherever he goes. You make it seem as if he is motivated to sign a deal to get his SB because if he doesn't he won't get it. He will get it and he knows it. If he plays under the tag his number under the tag explodes.....he knows it, his agent knows it and so does any team interested in him. If he does not get a big number this year it means he gets an even bigger number next year. So tell me....where is that motivation? He gets 17 this year and next year, if he is tagged again he gets over 20 million....then over 24 million....every tag year is a 20% bump,

I am sure that Howie and the Cox camp are both quiet because they are trying to figure out how to make it work....Cox, while cheaper than WIlkerson, is still going to be expensive. Rumor is that he wants huge money.
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