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nephillymike
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000064...de-up-for-wentz

Could we??

samaroo
I'd be okay with it, but we'll see. I have a real love/hate thing with this part of the year. It's exciting, but also the "likely" things the "experts" say will happen almost never does, so...

I guess I'll just wait for the draft. 25th, right?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 23 2016, 10:21 PM) *



Oh yeah...talk about completely bullshit rumor....

The Eagles commit 36 million guaranteed only to turn around and trade a boatload of draft picks to move up......or wait...maybe they are trading Bradford.......

Rubes....

My personal favorite is the "they clearly need a QB" part after they just committed a fortune at the position....

They should just say that it was Baalke in San Fran making the comment...
Pbfan
whhhhhhhhy is it always "we need a QB" or "we need a WR"?!?!?

This isn't madden, we dont always need to leverage our future on the "exciting positions". Do we honestly think that we're ok on the OL or DL? How about being smart, and drafting positions that have a HUGE effect on games even if they don't make headlines...

It is that type of thinking that has made cleveland awful for decades, why the lions were shitty for decades, why the jets are still a disaster...

FUCK QB or WR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about giving OUR current QB time, or focusing on giving the opposing QB less...
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 23 2016, 10:21 PM) *

I think the question really is: "will we?" I don't think so.

Trading to #2 (2600) from #8 (1400) is 1200 ... that's equivalent to #12. It would either take: both our #3's (195+205=400), our #4 (100) ... no enough cash in the drawer; or, our #1 next year; or, a player or combination of player(s) and picks.

Howie would get skewered if he moved Cox and who else has enough value to do a deal like that?
Phits
Here's what I think:
- We "NEED" a QB, because without a reliable franchise QB we will mire in mediocrity.
- Our (young) receiving group can be good, given some more time.
- An o-line needs time to gel, even if the pieces are just adequate, a good o-line is the sum of their parts. It sounds like Pederson wants to use TE's, RB's and FB for additional protection when/if needed.
- DL looks to be pretty good.

QUOTE (Pbfan @ Mar 24 2016, 04:20 AM) *
whhhhhhhhy is it always "we need a QB" or "we need a WR"?!?!?

This isn't madden, we dont always need to leverage our future on the "exciting positions". Do we honestly think that we're ok on the OL or DL? How about being smart, and drafting positions that have a HUGE effect on games even if they don't make headlines...

It is that type of thinking that has made cleveland awful for decades, why the lions were shitty for decades, why the jets are still a disaster...

FUCK QB or WR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How about giving OUR current QB time, or focusing on giving the opposing QB less...

Phits
Considering Lurie was willing to eat more than $13m by firing Chip (presumably for the good of the team), $36m for the QB position is peanuts.

Only $22m of Bradford's $35m is guaranteed. He's signed through to next season. I don't think anybody expects Bradford to transform into a special talent that he was hyped up to be. The Daniel's contract is as a backup (and possibly QB mentor). If he turns out to be better than a backup, that's bonus. In any event the current setup only provides stability at the QB position for the next season. After that, we are back up shit's creek.

We need our QB of tomorrow....today.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 23 2016, 11:07 PM) *
Oh yeah...talk about completely bullshit rumor....

The Eagles commit 36 million guaranteed only to turn around and trade a boatload of draft picks to move up......or wait...maybe they are trading Bradford.......

Rubes....

My personal favorite is the "they clearly need a QB" part after they just committed a fortune at the position....

They should just say that it was Baalke in San Fran making the comment...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 24 2016, 11:04 AM) *
Considering Lurie was willing to eat more than $13m by firing Chip (presumably for the good of the team), $36m for the QB position is peanuts.

Only $22m of Bradford's $35m is guaranteed. He's signed through to next season. I don't think anybody expects Bradford to transform into a special talent that he was hyped up to be. The Daniel's contract is as a backup (and possibly QB mentor). If he turns out to be better than a backup, that's bonus. In any event the current setup only provides stability at the QB position for the next season. After that, we are back up shit's creek.

We need our QB of tomorrow....today.



I am glad you think it is peanuts.....I wish I had your money.

But the guaranteed money is for both QB spots....if you goal is to draft Wentz then you sign Daniels and move on from Wentz...you don't sign Bradford and Guarantee 22 million to him unless you are an idiot, especially when your plan for the rest of the restocking has eaten up so much cap space. You do that, maybe, if you have a ton of cap space.(and then you would also cut Peters and go hunting for your next stud tackle but that is another conversation)

If you look at the big picture of all the moves they made and come away with the impression that this would be a likely scenario that they draft Wentz then I can't help you. Like I said...it could happen much like I could win the lottery this week.

mcnabbulous
I don't think they intend on making a move up for Wentz. We simply don't have the draft resources to do so. Maybe if he falls to #6 we would consider swapping with the Ravens to jump SF, but no higher than that.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 24 2016, 11:38 AM) *
I am glad you think it is peanuts.....I wish I had your money.

Don't hate the playa...hate the game tongue.gif

QUOTE
But the guaranteed money is for both QB spots....if you goal is to draft Wentz then you sign Daniels and move on from Wentz...you don't sign Bradford and Guarantee 22 million to him unless you are an idiot, especially when your plan for the rest of the restocking has eaten up so much cap space. You do that, maybe, if you have a ton of cap space.(and then you would also cut Peters and go hunting for your next stud tackle but that is another conversation)

You are working on the presumption that they intend to play the drafted QB sooner than later. I don't think that's the case. They draft a (first round) talent and let him develop behind Bradford and Daniel. If Bradford plays well he will be trade bait heading into the final year of his contract. At that point they draft the 'stud tackle' you want.

The concern, from fans, of CAP space is puzzling. Teams will find a way to make it work.

QUOTE
If you look at the big picture of all the moves they made and come away with the impression that this would be a likely scenario that they draft Wentz then I can't help you.

I see the big picture, and it doesn't involve Bradford. That's where we differ.

I don't think teams should draft based on immediate need. There isn't a can't miss sure fire prospect in this draft. So I think the team should draft based on potential. This team is primed for the development of a QB. A good prospect should flourish under their tutelage.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 24 2016, 12:20 PM) *
Don't hate the playa...hate the game tongue.gif


You are working on the presumption that they intend to play the drafted QB sooner than later. I don't think that's the case. They draft a (first round) talent and let him develop behind Bradford and Daniel. If Bradford plays well he will be trade bait heading into the final year of his contract. At that point they draft the 'stud tackle' you want.

The concern, from fans, of CAP space is puzzling. Teams will find a way to make it work.


I see the big picture, and it doesn't involve Bradford. That's where we differ.

I don't think teams should draft based on immediate need. There isn't a can't miss sure fire prospect in this draft. So I think the team should draft based on potential. This team is primed for the development of a QB. A good prospect should flourish under their tutelage.


You are completely wrong on my presumption.....you do not sign a placeholder to a large contract and Bradford, at 22 million guaranteed is a big contract. You would sign Daniels and move on from the big contract. Or sign a veteran FA for 7-8 million per, there are a ton of them available. You don't sign a high priced guy knowing you are just pissing that money away AND while you are trying to figure out how to pay a guy like Cox.

They signed Bradford because Pederson loves him and he is hoping Bradford is what he thinks he is.....he may not be but they are hoping he is and paid him accordingly while hedging their bet with a 2 year contract.

And Cap space is a concern because you don't "just make it work", ask the Jets....it has to be managed and managed well or you lose your good mid-level players.

I don't discount that Bradford may not be the answer, maybe he is what many think he is. The Eagles are giving him the shot to be the guy though, that much is clear.

I want them to take the BPA. I don't see that being a QB, it is that simple. Every team in the league thinks it has a great development team in place, some are at QBs with former players, others at WR or on defense. It does not always work out that way. It is about the player.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 24 2016, 12:05 PM) *
I don't think they intend on making a move up for Wentz. We simply don't have the draft resources to do so. Maybe if he falls to #6 we would consider swapping with the Ravens to jump SF, but no higher than that.

Assuming that QB is high on SF's wish list. I guess we will know better come April 1 when they will be on the hook for Kap's $16m salary.

Aside from SF and CLE there are no other QB desperate teams ahead of us in the draft.

Personally, I think it's Goff they are targeting. Scouts say....

QUOTE
Goff shows many of the traits scouts are looking for in a pro-style quarterback, including impressive accuracy on in-cutting routes in the short, intermediate and deep levels, the courage to stand in the pocket and enough functional mobility to buy time.

Goff has a snappy over-the-top release and isn't afraid to zip the ball through tight windows, typically leading his receivers away from danger. He possesses enough arm strength to complete deep outs to the opposite sideline and shows good touch down the seam. The composure and toughness he has shown while being beaten up behind an overmatched offensive line also won't go unnoticed by scouts.

Goff can be downright surgical in his ability to pick apart defenses, showing deft touch on deep balls down the sideline and up the middle.

He is doing a better job recognizing blitzes pre-snap, manipulating the pocket post-snap and finding the open read. His fantastic footwork and lower body mechanics allow him to always be in the "ready" position to easily come to balance and deliver, which isn't a common trait for most college passers.


His frame doesn't seem NFL ready and a season on the bench should let him not only bulk up but learn the game behind a decent group of mentors.
Joegrane
Don't forget Sam B to Denver for something, probably not enough to make the deal happen without next year's #1 or #2.

While I hope they don't have to trade up that far, I would not be shocked if they did it. Don't they have a history of trading with Cleveland?

Their activity in free agency would be consistent with that scenario. They've filled all of their holes. They don't need to rely on the draft and the positions of greatest need might be reasonably filled with mid to late draft picks--fullback, depth @ 4-3 D tackle.

QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 24 2016, 05:54 AM) *
I think the question really is: "will we?" I don't think so.

Trading to #2 (2600) from #8 (1400) is 1200 ... that's equivalent to #12. It would either take: both our #3's (195+205=400), our #4 (100) ... no enough cash in the drawer; or, our #1 next year; or, a player or combination of player(s) and picks.

Howie would get skewered if he moved Cox and who else has enough value to do a deal like that?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 24 2016, 11:31 AM) *
Assuming that QB is high on SF's wish list. I guess we will know better come April 1 when they will be on the hook for Kap's $16m salary.

Aside from SF and CLE there are no other QB desperate teams ahead of us in the draft.

Personally, I think it's Goff they are targeting. Scouts say....



His frame doesn't seem NFL ready and a season on the bench should let him not only bulk up but learn the game behind a decent group of mentors.

Goff does absolutely nothing for me. He basically reminds me of Bradford. So many guys like him have come out in recent years and I can't think of one major success story.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 24 2016, 12:30 PM) *
You are completely wrong on my presumption.....you do not sign a placeholder to a large contract and Bradford, at 22 million guaranteed is a big contract.

You do if, you are hoping .to compete in a weak division.

QUOTE
You would sign Daniels and move on from the big contract.

They signed Chase because he understands Pederson's offense.

QUOTE
trying to figure out how to pay a guy like Cox.

Unless they are trying to figure out if is worth paying Cox the kind of money he is going to want.

QUOTE
They signed Bradford because

...because ,he was the best option in a bad market Pederson

QUOTE
loves him and he is hoping Bradford is what he thinks he is.

Pederson's repeated adulation for Bradford reeks of BS.

QUOTE
And Cap space is a concern because you don't "just make it work", ask the Jets....it has to be managed and managed well or you lose your good mid-level players.

Isn't Howie a Cap guru? As for the Jets, they seem to be trending in the right direction. For example, Jets free up cap space by restructuring Jame's Carpenter deal.

QUOTE
It was always a matter of when -- not if -- the Jets were going to have to create some more cap room. That process started Wednesday, when guard James Carpenter restructured his deal to push more of his cap hit into the next two seasons.

The Jets converted $3.69 million of Carpenter's $4.45 million 2016 base salary into a signing bonus, freeing up about $2.5 million in cap space,
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 24 2016, 12:38 PM) *
Don't forget Sam B to Denver for something, probably not enough to make the deal happen without next year's #1 or #2.

While I hope they don't have to trade up that far, I would not be shocked if they did it. Don't they have a history of trading with Cleveland?

Their activity in free agency would be consistent with that scenario. They've filled all of their holes. They don't need to rely on the draft and the positions of greatest need might be reasonably filled with mid to late draft picks--fullback, depth @ 4-3 D tackle.


Don't forget Sam B to Denver? Why not? It is an idiotic rumor.....they didn't want to pay Osweiler 16 million but they want to pay Bradford 18?

I find it amusing that all the folks who think that Bradford sucks sees him as a great trade commodity to other teams....talk about irony.....lol
Joegrane
I think SamB can be a solid QB for a playoff team. I think he'll need a very good supporting cast and probably someone on O who can provide some leadership.

I also don't think he'll provide much as a trade commodity, certainly not with such a short deal and rather big price tag.

Osweiler might not have been so fond of Denver either.

Denver might be desperate now.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 24 2016, 11:46 AM) *
Don't forget Sam B to Denver? Why not? It is an idiotic rumor.....they didn't want to pay Osweiler 16 million but they want to pay Bradford 18?

I find it amusing that all the folks who think that Bradford sucks sees him as a great trade commodity to other teams....talk about irony.....lol

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 24 2016, 02:48 PM) *
I think SamB can be a solid QB for a playoff team. I think he'll need a very good supporting cast and probably someone on O who can provide some leadership.

I also don't think he'll provide much as a trade commodity, certainly not with such a short deal and rather big price tag.

Osweiler might not have been so fond of Denver either.

Denver might be desperate now.


I agree on just about everything....except Bradford proved he was a leader last year.

Denver is now a defense first team...they won't be desperate after winning a SB with very substandard QB play all year.
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