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nephillymike
get an above average starting WR for our system plus a solid backup/possible starting OG. The OG may turn out better than Barbre/Gardner or may be a close back up to whoever starts at LG, but better than the Tobin/Kelly show. It would cost us extra mills in cap, but would be solid upgrade at WR and potential upgrade or depth at OG.

Would you?
Reality Fan
Can you be a little more clear? Do you have players or a scenario in mind?
Reality Fan
By the way.....not to say I told you so but how is that cap cushion looking?
nephillymike
Nobody specific yet, just the concept of foregoing #8 for a trade down with NFL players at PON in return.

Assume you agree that these guys meet your criteria of the above, would you?
mcnabbulous
Pass. Take the best player at #8 (my heart says Hargreaves right now). Not get lesser talents to fill some immediate needs.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 22 2016, 10:07 PM) *
Nobody specific yet, just the concept of foregoing #8 for a trade down with NFL players at PON in return.

Assume you agree that these guys meet your criteria of the above, would you?


I would not have a problem at all....
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 22 2016, 09:23 PM) *
Pass. Take the best player at #8 (my heart says Hargreaves right now). Not get lesser talents to fill some immediate needs.


AND the 14th pick!!

Your "lesser" talents are accepted, you still get the 14th pick.

So instead of Hargreaves, you get the 2nd best CB. Instead of Stanley, you get Conklin or Decker. Instead of Treadwelll, you get Coleman. Instead of an edge rusher, you get the 1st or 2nd best DT.

AND a starting WR and at a minimum, a solid backup better than what we have at OG.

Still not interested??
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 22 2016, 11:27 PM) *
AND the 14th pick!!

Your "lesser" talents are accepted, you still get the 14th pick.

So instead of Hargreaves, you get the 2nd best CB. Instead of Stanley, you get Conklin or Decker. Instead of Treadwelll, you get Coleman. Instead of an edge rusher, you get the 1st or 2nd best DT.

AND a starting WR and at a minimum, a solid backup better than what we have at OG.

Still not interested??

If they can get a bona fide difference maker at 8 I wouldn't move down. If they think their pick at 8 would only be a very good player then I'd entertain offers but only to get into the second round.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 22 2016, 09:27 PM) *
AND the 14th pick!!

Your "lesser" talents are accepted, you still get the 14th pick.

So instead of Hargreaves, you get the 2nd best CB. Instead of Stanley, you get Conklin or Decker. Instead of Treadwelll, you get Coleman. Instead of an edge rusher, you get the 1st or 2nd best DT.

AND a starting WR and at a minimum, a solid backup better than what we have at OG.

Still not interested??

The only guy on that list who really appeals to me is Coleman. And I don't think we should be drafting a WR in round 1. Nor do I believe it's a definitive PON. We need young guys to step up, but we have spent significant resources at the position.

And I'll be pissed if we go OL in round 1 regardless of draft position.
nd9kel
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 22 2016, 08:37 PM) *
get an above average starting WR for our system plus a solid backup/possible starting OG. The OG may turn out better than Barbre/Gardner or may be a close back up to whoever starts at LG, but better than the Tobin/Kelly show. It would cost us extra mills in cap, but would be solid upgrade at WR and potential upgrade or depth at OG.

Would you?


Makes excellent sense to me. I would hope Sterling Sheperd gets a look. Short, but gets excellent separation and has great hands. He made a great impression at the Senior Bowl week.
Eyrie
I would have preferred us to stay put at #13, take Conklin and get the Dolphins second for Maxwell and Alonso.

Instead we traded up, so there must be a good reason for doing so and that means that we won't trade back.
The Franchise
God I hate this time of year. At least there's March Madness.
Eyrie
QUOTE (The Franchise @ Mar 23 2016, 08:31 PM) *
God I hate this time of year. At least there's March Madness.

June and July are even worse.

Right now we at least have the draft and remains of FA to discuss.
samaroo
Mikey, given the team's recent history, I find it interesting that you pencil in a rookie WR as an immediate and definite upgrade.

Also, didn't you say you weren't going to do that anymore?
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ Mar 23 2016, 09:07 PM) *
Mikey, given the team's recent history, I find it interesting that you pencil in a rookie WR as an immediate and definite upgrade.

Also, didn't you say you weren't going to do that anymore?



My preference was to get a WR in FA. That was priority #1 for me. Nobody agrees with me on that urgency.

I don;t think our corps is good enough.

As far as an upgrade, I think Huff is a weak link and Algholar hasn't done anything to inspire confidence. A highly drafted rookie can't hurt.

However,

Now that they got two FA WR's, maybe we'll be OK.

I say a lot of things. If I told you to remind me of past foolishness, then thanks for doing so.

I recently said I'll never play a bracket pool again since Mich State lost in the first round.

Chances are , there I'll be next march tyring to scout out the upset sleepers again.................
samaroo
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 24 2016, 11:18 AM) *
My preference was to get a WR in FA. That was priority #1 for me. Nobody agrees with me on that urgency.

I don;t think our corps is good enough.

As far as an upgrade, I think Huff is a weak link and Algholar hasn't done anything to inspire confidence. A highly drafted rookie can't hurt.

However,

Now that they got two FA WR's, maybe we'll be OK.

I say a lot of things. If I told you to remind me of past foolishness, then thanks for doing so.

I recently said I'll never play a bracket pool again since Mich State lost in the first round.

Chances are , there I'll be next march tyring to scout out the upset sleepers again.................


Ha! I get wanting to upgrade WR, but we Matthews had a down 2nd year, Agholar was definitely disappointing, and so was Huff (again.) Assuming a rookie will make an impact this year just seems weird to me, that's all.

And yes, you lamented your pre- and off-season hopes after the Bailey thing last year, if I remember correctly.
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ Mar 23 2016, 09:38 PM) *
Ha! I get wanting to upgrade WR, but we Matthews had a down 2nd year, Agholar was definitely disappointing, and so was Huff (again.) Assuming a rookie will make an impact this year just seems weird to me, that's all.

And yes, you lamented your pre- and off-season hopes after the Bailey thing last year, if I remember correctly.



Ahhh Bailey, I forgot about him.

Yes. I think he hooked up on a PS somewhere.

I gotta look him up.

Not like we needed a guy who could catch!!
nephillymike
One of the reasons I asked this question was to look at the move down to #13 from MIA's point of view.

I think that they think they got an above average solid starting CB for their style of D, AND a LB who if he doesn't start will be good depth at another PON.

If most of us would do that to get a solid starter at one PON and a borderline starter/significant backup at another PON, it is very possible that MIA did the same thing, but for different positions.

I'm happy Howie got us out of those contracts and got the equivalent of a high 3rd in return, but I don't MIA is anywhere near as foolish as people think.

I'm still watching Patrick Chung play for the NE Pats. Our DC couldn't coach, or HC couldn't motivate, so it's possible the talent for these two players is more than we think.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 1 2016, 08:45 PM) *
One of the reasons I asked this question was to look at the move down to #13 from MIA's point of view.

I think that they think they got an above average solid starting CB for their style of D, AND a LB who if he doesn't start will be good depth at another PON.

If most of us would do that to get a solid starter at one PON and a borderline starter/significant backup at another PON, it is very possible that MIA did the same thing, but for different positions.

I'm happy Howie got us out of those contracts and got the equivalent of a high 3rd in return, but I don't MIA is anywhere near as foolish as people think.

I'm still watching Patrick Chung play for the NE Pats. Our DC couldn't coach, or HC couldn't motivate, so it's possible the talent for these two players is more than we think.


I fear you may be right with Murray......not too worried about Maxwell....he is an OK CB but that is all.....grossly overpaid...he is not a shutdown guy.
Rick
I really don't get this insistence by some that trading down from a top 10 pick--that they traded UP for--make any sense at all. How about using that top 10 pick to get a blue chipper that can help the team immediately.

Get a starting WR in the draft? Like Agohlar (never can spell his name right)? Or Huff? That's a bit of a stretch...especially lower in the draft.

The farther down in the draft you pick someone, the more you're rolling the dice...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Rick @ Apr 2 2016, 06:49 AM) *
I really don't get this insistence by some that trading down from a top 10 pick--that they traded UP for--make any sense at all. How about using that top 10 pick to get a blue chipper that can help the team immediately.

Get a starting WR in the draft? Like Agohlar (never can spell his name right)? Or Huff? That's a bit of a stretch...especially lower in the draft.

The farther down in the draft you pick someone, the more you're rolling the dice...


http://www.wingheads.com/index.php?showtopic=80775

In only two of the last 12 years has the #8 pick been better than the #13 + pick or #20 + pick. And in many years, the #13 and/or #20 is better than #8 straight up.

It's not the gamble many perceive it to be.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Rick @ Apr 2 2016, 12:49 PM) *
I really don't get this insistence by some that trading down from a top 10 pick--that they traded UP for--make any sense at all.

Although my preference remains a trade down, that is the reason why I don't expect us to do so.

QUOTE
How about using that top 10 pick to get a blue chipper that can help the team immediately.

Get a starting WR in the draft? Like Agohlar (never can spell his name right)? Or Huff? That's a bit of a stretch...especially lower in the draft.

The farther down in the draft you pick someone, the more you're rolling the dice...

The odds should be slightly more in your favour with #8 than say #13, but there are no guarantees. And by trading down you get a second roll.

As long as #8 is a star for us, I'm happy to stay put.
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