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Reality Fan
Howie is redeeming himself fast


http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadel...onal-draft-pick
The Franchise
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 03:10 PM) *
Howie is redeeming himself fast


Seriously. At this rate Cataldi will have him on to suck his dick.
Birdwatcher
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 02:10 PM) *


Don't let all this fool you, Howie has looked good in the off-season before. The real test begins in September and as far as I can tell, Howie's apparently good moves have often turned to shit. He can make us look good on paper, but that don't mean squat. I am less than enthusiastically optimistic, it looks smart, but I will reserve any praise for him until it works on the field.
Joegrane
Sanchez to the Broncos was a no-brainer since they likely needed both a #1 and #2 QB They must have been the first call for Howie.

Mark could be the placeholder QB for a rookie draft pick or solid #2 QB for them if they miraculously obtain a #1 caliber QB--hint Sam Bradford.

Any details on the conditions?
Phits
I'm surprised they were able to get anything for Sanchez. I'm not surprised that he's gone...just like I wasn't surprised they signed Chase....and I won't be surprised when they draft a QB with the eigth pick.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 11 2016, 04:21 PM) *
Sanchez to the Broncos was a no-brainer since they likely needed both a #1 and #2 QB They must have been the first call for Howie.

Mark could be the placeholder QB for a rookie draft pick or solid #2 QB for them if they miraculously obtain a #1 caliber QB--hint Sam Bradford.

Any details on the conditions?


They will get a conditional pick next year...no details on what that may be

and surely you are not even remotely insinuating that Bradford may be traded....I thought all that silliness was put to bed...or are you just hoping that might happen?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Mar 11 2016, 04:00 PM) *
Don't let all this fool you, Howie has looked good in the off-season before. The real test begins in September and as far as I can tell, Howie's apparently good moves have often turned to shit. He can make us look good on paper, but that don't mean squat. I am less than enthusiastically optimistic, it looks smart, but I will reserve any praise for him until it works on the field.


I disagree...this time he has brought in guys just coming into their prime years other than McKelvin...

All these guys are in their 20s and have had success....even Brooks is a great special teams guy
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 05:05 PM) *
They will get a conditional pick next year...no details on what that may be

and surely you are not even remotely insinuating that Bradford may be traded....I thought all that silliness was put to bed...or are you just hoping that might happen?

It's not silliness. It can happen.
nephillymike
They are saying it is a conditional 7th.

I wonder if it conditional on playing time or # games on the roster?

We'll find out soon enough I guess.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 06:35 PM) *
It's not silliness. It can happen.

I don't know why you would say this, other than "anything can happen." They have two QBs and have definitively declared one to be the starter and the other to be the backup. If they trade either one they will be in trouble. Howie is moving and shaking but if he did that he'd lose all the positives he has gained so far. It would make no sense and would weaken the team. I'm betting they draft Prescott in the third.

Joegrane
I agree. If trade partners can be found for Murray and Maxwell with their contracts, Bradford could be traded to the QB-starved SB champs.

Howie has been purging Chip's guys. Bradford is the ultimate Chip guy.

I just don't think it will happen until draft day and only if they draft one of the top two QBs.

Even if they draft a QB @8 or above, they might keep Bradford through this year to give them the best chance to win now and give him additional opportunity to show his value.

I also would not be terribly surprised if Bradford is here for the next five years. They've been saying that finding a franchise QB is the top priority. If Bradford look good this year, why not extend him?

In addition, the big contract with Daniels is suspicious to me. Is he really that much better than Sanchez? I think he was brought in for a different purpose than just #2. That contract appears to be for a placeholder QB.

Finally even Top 10 QBs are somewhat of a crap shoot. In this case I think there is a good enough team around the young QB to allow him to be successful. This is not Cleveland.

I don't dislike Sam. I just don't think Howie is entirely sane; nor do I think Chip K is. I'm surprised they get their heads with those big egos through the front doors of the Nova Care Complex--the double doors.

QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 06:35 PM) *
It's not silliness. It can happen.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Mar 11 2016, 07:51 PM) *
I don't know why you would say this, other than "anything can happen." They have two QBs and have definitively declared one to be the starter and the other to be the backup. If they trade either one they will be in trouble. Howie is moving and shaking but if he did that he'd lose all the positives he has gained so far.


In the presser, Pederson continued to say "For now" or "Right now, going forward." when he spoke about the QB situation.

To paraphrase:

"Nobody makes their roster in April, we are going to continue to improve our roster. Competition, iron sharpens iron, in every position. The QB position is no different".

This is after he told everybody Bradford is #1 and Chase is #2....for now.

Linc

QUOTE
It would make no sense and would weaken the team. I'm betting they draft Prescott in the third.

I don't think anybody on this team (or the franchise) has earned the benefit of the doubt. They haven't done anything to instill trust. For now, we are relying on a first year HC, a pseudo GM (with a poor draft record), two unproven veteran QBs, a bunch of 'system' based defensive players.

The FA signings (and the signing of roster players) have been exciting, but we've seen this before. "For now", this is just Dream Team 3. The one thing they (management) has going for them is that they are doing (in year one) what Chip waited to do until year three. IMO, it's the right way to build your program. It should pay dividends in a few seasons. I don't expect much next season....especially without our future QB on the roster.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 06:35 PM) *
It's not silliness. It can happen.



and I can also win the lottery and maybe the Phils will win their dicision...many things CAN happen but the likelihood is ridiculously remote...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 08:50 PM) *
In the presser, Pederson continued to say "For now" or "Right now, going forward." when he spoke about the QB situation.

To paraphrase:

"Nobody makes their roster in April, we are going to continue to improve our roster. Competition, iron sharpens iron, in every position. The QB position is no different".

This is after he told everybody Bradford is #1 and Chase is #2....for now.

Linc


I don't think anybody on this team (or the franchise) has earned the benefit of the doubt. They haven't done anything to instill trust. For now, we are relying on a first year HC, a pseudo GM (with a poor draft record), two unproven veteran QBs, a bunch of 'system' based defensive players.

The FA signings (and the signing of roster players) have been exciting, but we've seen this before. "For now", this is just Dream Team 3. The one thing they (management) has going for them is that they are doing (in year one) what Chip waited to do until year three. IMO, it's the right way to build your program. It should pay dividends in a few seasons. I don't expect much next season....especially without our future QB on the roster.


The conspiracy theory mentality always amuses me but lets play your game...

Pederson mentioned the QB position and the pecking order before any questions were asked but your take away was that he said it while couching it with some verbage and conveniently leave out all the follow up he did reinforcing his comments which is typical in conspiracy theories. H ewants Daniels to push Bradford, another thing he said, specifically "iron sharpens iron"

But I guess it is slow this time of year so we need something for fun.....I will give anyone 10-1 odds if they are feeling that froggy and they can name the sum.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 09:19 PM) *
The conspiracy theory mentality always amuses me but lets play your game...

Pederson mentioned the QB position and the pecking order before any questions were asked but your take away was that he said it while couching it with some verbage and conveniently leave out all the follow up he did reinforcing his comments which is typical in conspiracy theories. H ewants Daniels to push Bradford, another thing he said, specifically "iron sharpens iron"

But I guess it is slow this time of year so we need something for fun.....I will give anyone 10-1 odds if they are feeling that froggy and they can name the sum.



10-1 odds on what?
Joegrane
While I tend to agree with you the memories of the Dream Team are still too fresh.

I like the OG. His beef next to Peter's should be good in the run game. Some wonder if he could play R OT?

I like replacing Alonzo with a real SAM LB, especially one who already knows the system.

I'm concerned about CB. However if they plan to take a CB in round 1, the presence of a veteran who knows the system makes very good sense. He should also be helpful to the other young CBs.

I'm not surprised that they are waiting to pick a veteran WR from the bottom of the barrel like last year.

I suppose they'll draft a RB. What are the chances that an Oregon Duck is going to remain at that position?


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 05:07 PM) *
I disagree...this time he has brought in guys just coming into their prime years other than McKelvin...

All these guys are in their 20s and have had success....even Brooks is a great special teams guy

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 11 2016, 09:32 PM) *
10-1 odds on what?


That they do not trade Bradford....hell...20-1....while I think they will have no problems replacing Bradford if he plays poorly I think they would love nothing better than for Bradford to be a stud,,,if he is than they win right away...Daniels is here to teach the team the offense and to be a guy who can step in if Bradford gets hurt and keep the offense going for a few games.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 09:19 PM) *
The conspiracy theory mentality always amuses me but lets play your game...

Fans who believe "coach speak" amuses me.

QUOTE
Pederson mentioned the QB position and the pecking order before any questions were asked but your take away was that he said it while couching it with some verbage and conveniently leave out all the follow up he did reinforcing his comments which is typical in conspiracy theories.

"For now" and "Right now, going forward". He used those phrases repeatedly in his reference to the QB order. That's not conspiracy. We all know that coaches and GM's aren't going to tip their hat and give up the goods.

QUOTE
H ewants Daniels to push Bradford, another thing he said, specifically "iron sharpens iron"

He wants competition at the every level, not just QB. "For now" his #1 is Bradford, that can easily change.


Joegrane
I don't like the odds that one of the two QBs will fall to them at 8. I think SF will take one.

However if they plan to then trade SamB they'll have ammunition to trade up without sacrificing in later rounds.

It would only take roughly their best 3rd round pick to get above SF to #6--Ravens--according to one trade table I checked.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 11 2016, 10:07 PM) *
That they do not trade Bradford....hell...20-1....while I think they will have no problems replacing Bradford if he plays poorly I think they would love nothing better than for Bradford to be a stud,,,if he is than they win right away...Daniels is here to teach the team the offense and to be a guy who can step in if Bradford gets hurt and keep the offense going for a few games.

Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 10:28 PM) *
"For now" his #1 is Bradford, that can easily change.

I agree with this, but it's completely different than the possibility of trading him now. Next year? Depends on how he plays this year and what they do with the other two spots.
Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Mar 11 2016, 10:40 PM) *
I don't like the odds that one of the two QBs will fall to them at 8. I think SF will take one.

However if they plan to then trade SamB they'll have ammunition to trade up without sacrificing in later rounds.

It would only take roughly their best 3rd round pick to get above SF to #6--Ravens--according to one trade table I checked.

If Bradford proves to be a good enough QB for what they need him to be then they don't need to draft a QB at 8. The idea as I see it is to have a starter (Bradford) and a capable backup (Daniel) who is also the mentor for the rookie (Prescott?). There will be competition between the top two, so theoretically it's possible Daniel could win the job but not likely, IMO. Without either Daniel or Bradford there is no competition and neither player is challenged.
Eyrie
Bradford's contract is pretty expensive for 2017, so I'd think Daniel is the insurance policy for a mid-round pick.

If Bradford is a success this year, he'll get a longer deal. Daniel and the rookie provide depth in 2017 and 2018 will depend on the rookie's progress. If he does well, Daniel won't see year 3 and if the rookie doesn't progress, we'll draft another prospect in 2018.

If Bradford is average, see above and he won't get extended when his two years run out. Either the rookie will be ready or Daniel will be the placeholder for 2018.

If Bradford struggles, he'll be cut after this season and 2017 will be Daniel or the rookie.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 11 2016, 10:28 PM) *
Fans who believe "coach speak" amuses me.


"For now" and "Right now, going forward". He used those phrases repeatedly in his reference to the QB order. That's not conspiracy. We all know that coaches and GM's aren't going to tip their hat and give up the goods.


He wants competition at the every level, not just QB. "For now" his #1 is Bradford, that can easily change.



There is a difference between coach speak and defuses an accidental firestarter....

Coach speak is rarely specific and detailed and self initiated......it is reactionary to media questions....occasionally it is something floated out there off the record but I see your point....going out and bringing up a subject unbidden so that you lose whatever credibility you may have makes great sense...oh yeah....

And since he also said there is competition at every position maybe they are going to trade Cox? I mean, he said it over and over again...there will be competition at every position, not some, every and he said it repeatedly.....repeatedly...

Truly bizarre how a completely BS story on a contract detail, a detail not odd to any contract created such silliness. I could see if there were whispers from a beat writer here or elsewhere...but this is all from a bored guy finally reading an NFL contract....and even the Philly beat writers who love a good conspiracy find the notion utter bullshit.

How many men were on the grassy knoll?

So how much will we wager?
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 12 2016, 08:29 AM) *
And since he also said there is competition at every position maybe they are going to trade Cox?

The possibility exists.

QUOTE
Truly bizarre how a completely BS story on a contract detail, a detail not odd to any contract created such silliness. I could see if there were whispers from a beat writer here or elsewhere...but this is all from a bored guy finally reading an NFL contract....and even the Philly beat writers who love a good conspiracy find the notion utter bullshit.

Then again, you are the same guy that was in denial over Murray's desire to play some where else. Our new HC even referenced "the rumors" as a reason why Murray is no longer on the team.

QUOTE
How many men were on the grassy knoll?

what came first, the chicken or the egg?

QUOTE
So how much will we wager?

Let me get this straight, you want to wager on whether there is a 'possibility' of Bradford getting traded? I'll take that bet, because I feel there is a 'possibility' that Bradford gets traded.
Phits
I don't think Bradford will sear the second year of his contract, unless he suddenly leaps to elite status...which isn't likely to happen in a single season.

I believe that the intention is to have Bradford play well enough that he becomes tradeable in the next off season. At which point The (unknown) Rookie will have developed to tyhe point that we know whether he is going to be a player or not. If so, Chase will be the starter at the beginning of the season (Pederson is very high on Daniels potential as a starter in this league) and the "rookie" will be brought at the quarter mark of the season.

If the "rookie" is lame, than the combination of our own picks + the Bradford pick(s) should bring us another QB in the draft (2017).

Chase will be the defacto starter after next season.

QUOTE (Eyrie @ Mar 12 2016, 06:09 AM) *
Bradford's contract is pretty expensive for 2017, so I'd think Daniel is the insurance policy for a mid-round pick.

If Bradford is a success this year, he'll get a longer deal. Daniel and the rookie provide depth in 2017 and 2018 will depend on the rookie's progress. If he does well, Daniel won't see year 3 and if the rookie doesn't progress, we'll draft another prospect in 2018.

If Bradford is average, see above and he won't get extended when his two years run out. Either the rookie will be ready or Daniel will be the placeholder for 2018.

If Bradford struggles, he'll be cut after this season and 2017 will be Daniel or the rookie.

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