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Reality Fan
Here is a little update on the QB market....

most is as predicted...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000063...sweiler-wind-up

Houston is really the only contender for Bradford...if they are even thinking in that direction
Dreagon
Hmmm... I agree with him on Fitzpatrick and Kaepernick.

The Redskins situation is a little murkier. I know they want to keep Cousins because he's the best thing they've had in a while. At the same time there is still a big difference between the level of play he has demonstrated through his career and the money you pay for franchise tagging a QB. With their history, you would think they would be naturally leery of overpaying, but at the same time they know there are other teams out there who are QB hungry. That means Cousins really has nothing to gain by negotiating now, and he would be better served by sitting back to see if they will tag him, and what other teams may offer.

Pleeeeeese let him be wrong about RGIII. That won't solve anything and would just be kicking a can down the road on a situation that we need to start getting serious about addressing.

Now that I look at it, Bradford's and Osweilers fates may be entertwined. If Manning retires in a timely fashion then Denver will probably sign Osweiller and that will be that. But if Manning prolongs things, and a team like Cleveland suddenly poaches Osweiller before Manning departs, then Denver is in a lurch and may suddenly be looking at Bradford for real.

Houston is a wild card. They draft too low to go for the three rookie QBs that have any chance of starting next year...and two probably shouldn't anyway. So they may find Bradford attractive, but lets not forget that they might consider Osweiller themselves. Or Kirk Cousins.
PhillySteaks
I really hope badford is not here much longer..
nephillymike
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/02/...radford-market/

This is good news for RF.

But it's early.

I'm thinking that the Texans and Broncos would be the most likely of destinations.

Texans made the playoffs and they're going to back track?

Assuming Manning goes, would they see Bradford as the better option for the short terms with a stacked aging D? Maybe.

Can't see the Niners.

Would the Browns go back into the draft, AGAIN? I could see them dipping their toe. When is their win now moment?

NYJ will sign Fitz. Thy see him as a better QB and also a better price.

Reality Fan
But the Broncos just won with a QB playing subpar and their defense carrying them...why would they over pay for a QB when their backup will be considerably cheaper yet still an upgrade from what they had? I don't think Denver is anywhere close to being in the running. Cleveland has already said they are going to draft their guy.

It really is down to the Texans and between their own cap situation and the question of will they draft a guy and use a placeholder or commit to Bradford is a big one due to the risk Bradford represents from both performance and durability.

I can't see anyone offering Bradford big money at this point....I could be wrong but it seems highly unlikely...just reading the tee leaves.
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 20 2016, 12:08 AM) *
Cleveland has already said they are going to draft their guy.

Plus, Cleveland has all new personnel people and coaches. The "again" wouldn't seem to apply.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 20 2016, 07:02 AM) *
Plus, Cleveland has all new personnel people and coaches. The "again" wouldn't seem to apply.



True.

But what about the owner, the fans? They have to be tired of the biannual rebuild.

RF's best buddy Ruben Frank was on with Diddy this AM and he said that Lurie is not very patient these days. Welcome to my world Jeffrey. If that's the case, maybe he bites the bullet and resigns Bradford for big bucks.

If I'm impatient, I can only imagine how the Browns feel.
Reality Fan
Suppose...and I am leaning this way because the more I hear the more I think Condon is a tool....the Eagles have made a few offers to Bradford and he (Condon) has laughed and the Eagles decide to go FA for their short term QB. WHat does that do to the market for Bradford. It is possible, even likely, that the Eagles would be bidding against themselves for Bradford...can you imagine if they walk away?
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 22 2016, 07:02 PM) *
Suppose...and I am leaning this way because the more I hear the more I think Condon is a tool....the Eagles have made a few offers to Bradford and he (Condon) has laughed and the Eagles decide to go FA for their short term QB. WHat does that do to the market for Bradford. It is possible, even likely, that the Eagles would be bidding against themselves for Bradford...can you imagine if they walk away?


Good point.

If that is the thinking, why not just make him a reasonable offer on the low end, say go test the waters and get back to us before the draft. You risk losing out on signing a Daniel, but we have Sanchez. If it works out with Bradford, then fine, if not, you draft a QB at #13 and go with Sanchez as the starter for a year.

If the market is as bad as you think, even offering the franchise tag would be bidding against themselves.

This is actually the toughest decision I ever remember the Eagles, and us fans, having to make.

Most are easy to decide. This one is riddled with what-ifs.


Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 22 2016, 07:31 PM) *
Good point.

If that is the thinking, why not just make him a reasonable offer on the low end, say go test the waters and get back to us before the draft. You risk losing out on signing a Daniel, but we have Sanchez. If it works out with Bradford, then fine, if not, you draft a QB at #13 and go with Sanchez as the starter for a year.

If the market is as bad as you think, even offering the franchise tag would be bidding against themselves.

This is actually the toughest decision I ever remember the Eagles, and us fans, having to make.

Most are easy to decide. This one is riddled with what-ifs.


I agree...with one caveat.....make him a reasonable offer, these guys know what the market is (the real market value)

and if he says no and does not sign before the tag signing period ends then move on and declare yourselves out of the Bradford market......no sense overpaying and that spikes the market value.....no sense in doing Condon's work for him.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 22 2016, 10:38 PM) *
I agree...with one caveat.....make him a reasonable offer, these guys know what the market is (the real market value)

and if he says no and does not sign before the tag signing period ends then move on and declare yourselves out of the Bradford market......no sense overpaying and that spikes the market value.....no sense in doing Condon's work for him.



Yep, I'm thinking an offer of about $18.001M per is fairly reasonable!! biggrin.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 22 2016, 10:45 PM) *
Yep, I'm thinking an offer of about $18.001M per is fairly reasonable!! biggrin.gif


They would jump on it.....I think 4/50/20 is a good offer.

Some fiscal conservative you are....thank god your wife controls the money.... blah.gif
bwc2112
This is what I have heard, Sam Bradford, Chase Daniels, RG111 , then a possible draft.
Who would you take ?
Reality Fan
I don't want to hurt Mikey too much but from the land of "I told you so"

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/houston...rterback-021816

and

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14836119...tee-2016-salary

The landing spots for Bradford have all but disappeared.....

No wonder the latest word is that the Eagles and Condon are negotiating right now and he should be signed shortly to a moderate contract. Quick Slants on CSN spoke about it tonight.

Joegrane
Is that just "negotiation talk" or reality?

It makes no sense to me that a serious playoff contending team with lots of cap space would prefer a developmental rookie, Hack., to a veteran such as Bradford. That is even considering the very special relationship between this coach and QB.

It is not like they are going to draft in the top 5.

This is not Kelly and Mariota.

It makes the most sense for them to both draft Hack. and sign Bradford to a three-year deal.

Don't misunderstand, I'd like to see Bradford back in Green and then see the Eagles draft a developmental QB in the second day of the draft.

However, if I were Bradford, I'd prefer the more friendly Houston than the city of tough love. I'd also be hungry to play for a Playoff team. After all of the extensions and hiring of a real D Coordinator Philly is not a bad landing spot, but Houston seems to be the better fit.


QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 24 2016, 10:44 PM) *
I don't want to hurt Mikey too much but from the land of "I told you so"

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/houston...rterback-021816

and

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14836119...tee-2016-salary

The landing spots for Bradford have all but disappeared.....

No wonder the latest word is that the Eagles and Condon are negotiating right now and he should be signed shortly to a moderate contract. Quick Slants on CSN spoke about it tonight.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 24 2016, 11:21 PM) *
Is that just "negotiation talk" or reality?

It makes no sense to me that a serious playoff contending team with lots of cap space would prefer a developmental rookie, Hack., to a veteran such as Bradford. That is even considering the very special relationship between this coach and QB.

It is not like they are going to draft in the top 5.

This is not Kelly and Mariota.

It makes the most sense for them to both draft Hack. and sign Bradford to a three-year deal.

Don't misunderstand, I'd like to see Bradford back in Green and then see the Eagles draft a developmental QB in the second day of the draft.

However, if I were Bradford, I'd prefer the more friendly Houston than the city of tough love. I'd also be hungry to play for a Playoff team. After all of the extensions and hiring of a real D Coordinator Philly is not a bad landing spot, but Houston seems to be the better fit.

First, it is reality and not a shock, the combine is a standard negotiating summit every year because the teams front offices and the agents are all in one place so a lot of work gets done.

Now, onto the rest.

I can appreciate your opinion but there is a flaw. You look ay it from a strictly common sense perspective and assume Bradford to be an elite prospect without calling him one. It has been a common theme for many looking at this market because the feeling was/is that because Bradford was the best of the bunch than he would automatically be the defacto target for a high stakes bidding war.

The fact is that Bradford has warts. He had a very subpar first half where he threw the ball short constantly...and he has durability issues that have been well documented. He had a much better 2nd half where he threw the ball downfield regularly and looked like a very good QB. The problem with that is that there is an inherent risk by signing him to a long contract. Houston, the only other real sensible suitor, has been bitten several times by the QB gamble. They were bitten with the Matt Schaub extension....They signed Fitzpatrick (who will get a nice new contract from the Jets) and he did not work out. They have a great team so drafting a franchise guy makes sense for them rather than gambling again and paying Bradford a big number to be a placeholder. If Bradford could be had for 6-8 million per year for 2-3 years than they would likely be all over him. The Texans will gamble on the draft before they gamble a big number with Sammy.

The very idea that Bradford is looking for a big number has been the best thing for the Eagles because it has scared the few teams with a landing spot to look at the draft rather than at Bradford.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 24 2016, 10:44 PM) *
I don't want to hurt Mikey too much but from the land of "I told you so"

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/houston...rterback-021816

and

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14836119...tee-2016-salary

The landing spots for Bradford have all but disappeared.....

No wonder the latest word is that the Eagles and Condon are negotiating right now and he should be signed shortly to a moderate contract. Quick Slants on CSN spoke about it tonight.



RF me lad, he who laughs last, laughs best.

I agree the number of suitors appears to have dwindled (kudos for you seeing that early on post bet) and if you take the Eagles at their word, then they are negotiating and I think a deal may happen soon.

But here's the thing. If the Eagles offered him $72M over 4 years before last season (not a fan all the time, but I do believe Eskin and the others who confirmed this), then how do they sell he's not worth that much now to the team? How do they sell he's not worth average starting QB $, which will be decently below average over the term of the deal? That's a tough sell, and Howie doesn't seem to be counting pennies this off season based on what he's dished out already.

We'll see. We should know in the next 8 days.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 25 2016, 06:26 AM) *
RF me lad, he who laughs last, laughs best.

I agree the number of suitors appears to have dwindled (kudos for you seeing that early on post bet) and if you take the Eagles at their word, then they are negotiating and I think a deal may happen soon.

But here's the thing. If the Eagles offered him $72M over 4 years before last season (not a fan all the time, but I do believe Eskin and the others who confirmed this), then how do they sell he's not worth that much now to the team? How do they sell he's not worth average starting QB $, which will be decently below average over the term of the deal? That's a tough sell, and Howie doesn't seem to be counting pennies this off season based on what he's dished out already.

We'll see. We should know in the next 8 days.


Thank you my friend.....I looked at this dispassionately and not as a fan or a NFL groupie,,,much of the writing was on the wall.

First, I am not sure that the Eagles really did make an actual offer....Eskin is actually more often wrong than right by a wide margin...he is driven by rumors from folks who use him like a $2 dollar whore.
The most telling evidence to the contrary of that offer was Bradford himslef who made the comment that he had never seen or heard of an offer from the Eagles. If they had made an offer than he he says something else like "these things work themselves out" or some such.
Beyond that, if such an offer was made it was by the Kelly regime, not Howie and much like Kelly ignored Howie's negotiations with Mathis, Howie can claim he has no idea about what Kelly could have offered. He can point out what the market is now, not back then.
Most agents and a growing number of media guys, off the record or on the record, are saying that Bradford is worth less and less so a moderate offer is better than some of the numbers beginning to be bantered around.

It will be interesting to see what the final deal is....I expect a heavily back loaded deal with a final year with huge money that will never be realized or easily renegotiated.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 25 2016, 01:15 PM) *
Thank you my friend.....I looked at this dispassionately and not as a fan or a NFL groupie,,,much of the writing was on the wall.

First, I am not sure that the Eagles really did make an actual offer....Eskin is actually more often wrong than right by a wide margin...he is driven by rumors from folks who use him like a $2 dollar whore.
The most telling evidence to the contrary of that offer was Bradford himslef who made the comment that he had never seen or heard of an offer from the Eagles. If they had made an offer than he he says something else like "these things work themselves out" or some such.
Beyond that, if such an offer was made it was by the Kelly regime, not Howie and much like Kelly ignored Howie's negotiations with Mathis, Howie can claim he has no idea about what Kelly could have offered. He can point out what the market is now, not back then.
Most agents and a growing number of media guys, off the record or on the record, are saying that Bradford is worth less and less so a moderate offer is better than some of the numbers beginning to be bantered around.

It will be interesting to see what the final deal is....I expect a heavily back loaded deal with a final year with huge money that will never be realized or easily renegotiated.


As long as that back loaded year puts the average over the magic mark..............................

All kidding aside, make pretend there never was an offer, then do you think that the Eagles would offer less than average QB money and Bradford would accept that? I just don't see it. The team is paying backups nice coin on new deals. Teams have a bunch of cap money to spend.

We'll see.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 25 2016, 07:15 PM) *
As long as that back loaded year puts the average over the magic mark..............................

All kidding aside, make pretend there never was an offer, then do you think that the Eagles would offer less than average QB money and Bradford would accept that? I just don't see it. The team is paying backups nice coin on new deals. Teams have a bunch of cap money to spend.

We'll see.


Again, you are looking at this the wrong way.....you keep saying "average" QB money but then point out that he is below average.

The market is what the market will pay....no one is going to pay Bradford 18 per just because there are not a lot of good QBs available, he does not have the history to command that. Regardless of the reasons, he does not have the winning history or the gaudy numbers. He only has the pedigree of being a top pick and not being completely awful. Right now he does not have anymore leverage than Ryan Fitzpatrick, he may actually have less.

He accepts it if his agent is realizing that no one is going to pay more....that is the hard part for you to realize...there may not be any other suitors...you keep ignoring that as a factor in the Eagles offer.....if I can figure that out than you know the Eagles damn well know that too.
Joegrane
You expressed that well. It makes perfect sense that Bradford would make it to free agency. Bradford comes with so many question marks. Both sides need to get a feel for his value.

An incentive-laden contract makes the most sense in this case. That is what would be fairest to both sides.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Feb 25 2016, 08:33 PM) *
...no one is going to pay Bradford 18 per just because there are not a lot of good QBs available, he does not have the history to command that. ...there may not be any other suitors...

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Feb 26 2016, 09:53 PM) *
You expressed that well. It makes perfect sense that Bradford would make it to free agency. Bradford comes with so many question marks. Both sides need to get a feel for his value.

An incentive-laden contract makes the most sense in this case. That is what would be fairest to both sides.


That is a great point Joe.....and likely why a deal has not been hammered out yet....both sides are trying to set the right incentives...
Zero
I wonder if the difference between many of these QBs is less distinguishable when they are projected out a couple of years. Is Lynch or Wentz that much better than Hackenberg or even a guy like Hogan or Driskel if they all sit and learn for two or three years? How much difference is there really? Especially if the coach really does scheme to player strengths.

Obviously, the point is where to take a QB assuming they find an adequate starter for now. Any QB taken in the draft this year shouldn't be a starter this year, ideally not next year either. To me, that's like buying a brand new Shelby GT, starting the engine and pushing it to it's limits right off the lot with a cold engine and 6 miles on the odometer.

Sign Sam, trade down, BPA, get a #2, build the OL, take your time with a young QB ... or two. Yes?
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 27 2016, 11:08 AM) *
I wonder if the difference between many of these QBs is less distinguishable when they are projected out a couple of years. Is Lynch or Wentz that much better than Hackenberg or even a guy like Hogan or Driskel if they all sit and learn for two or three years? How much difference is there really? Especially if the coach really does scheme to player strengths.

Obviously, the point is where to take a QB assuming they find an adequate starter for now. Any QB taken in the draft this year shouldn't be a starter this year, ideally not next year either. To me, that's like buying a brand new Shelby GT, starting the engine and pushing it to it's limits right off the lot with a cold engine and 6 miles on the odometer.

Sign Sam, trade down, BPA, get a #2, build the OL, take your time with a young QB ... or two. Yes?

Yes.
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