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nephillymike
Anyone?

I'm still almost on the fence on Bradford.

I would think not.

Shurmur probably gone (although he and Pedey did coach on same staff for years)

Hard to believe that this process would lead him to have confidence in the FO in getting the job done.
mcnabbulous
I think the bigger question is whether Pederson wants Bradford.

I know Andy thought unbelievably high of Sam coming out of college. I would think that might have Doug curious about the possibilities.
Joegrane
The thing that frightens me is that the Texans' QB played SO poorly, they have cap space to sign Sam and Sam is from OK. Does Sam, like Maclin, see an opportunity to go back as home-town hero?

The analogy might not be the same since Houston is several hundred miles from central OK. I don't know how folks from OK feel about folks from Houston; however both places are a long way from Philly.

I'm surely glad that Sam played so well during most of the second half of the season. Also it seems that Philly generally recognized that and has warmed up to him. Maybe he sees that he'll likely be okay here, especially if Shurmur stays and they patch the O Line.

Another concern is that some people think Childress will come in as OC and Shurmur will be the QB coach. I was counting on Shurmur keeping much of Chip's system so the learning curve would be minimal. That would likely be attractive to Bradford and help his young WRs.

I assume that situation would be extremely unlikely for most new coaches but just maybe the situation with Pederson is right for that kind of relationship. He would rely on his experienced coordinators while he provides the leadership and is the "face" of the organization.

I just want them to avoid the catastrophic rebuild--Hinkie style! I realize the Sixers had to do that after they went all-in with the mega-trade and lost big.

Laurie did something similar with Chip's hire and especially by giving him full control. Now Laurie is on the verge of loosing-big as well. However, I think what he is doing gives them the best chance to stabilize the situation, retain their most valuable FAs and then continue to build towards being a serious playoff contender.

The Bradford signing would be a huge step in the right direction. It is reasonable to think that having a former player, a former Eagles QB as HC would be a substantial plus, especially after playing for a brilliant, but mad dictator.

Other than hiring the coach that Bradford wanted, this seems to be a good situation. It makes good sense for this unusual situation.

Of course if Bradford leaves there are other ways to keep the team from disintegrating. They'll have $ to resign FAs on D, a veteran OG and #2-caliber WR. Unfortunately they may have to blow their Round 1 pick on a QB instead of drafting their R OT of the future.

Hopefully Howie will do what he does best and allow the talent experts to do their jobs.

QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 15 2016, 09:35 PM) *
Anyone?

I'm still almost on the fence on Bradford.

I would think not.

Shurmur probably gone (although he and Pedey did coach on same staff for years)

Hard to believe that this process would lead him to have confidence in the FO in getting the job done.
mcnabbulous
I really don't think O'Brien is going to go for Sam. At this point, I would guess Chip is more of a risk.

I'd have to defer to Dreagon, as I'm pretty sure he's from Houston, but I don't know of any special affinity for one another between OK and Houston. Dallas maybe, but not Houston.
nephillymike
Proximity between OKC and HOU is non existent.

It is almost exactly the same 6 hrs 45 min travel time by car as PHILA to..................................................................



CLE
nd9kel
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 15 2016, 10:11 PM) *
I really don't think O'Brien is going to go for Sam. At this point, I would guess Chip is more of a risk.

I'd have to defer to Dreagon, as I'm pretty sure he's from Houston, but I don't know of any special affinity for one another between OK and Houston. Dallas maybe, but not Houston.


Houston has one of the nation's largest OU alumni clubs.
Dreagon
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 15 2016, 10:11 PM) *
I'd have to defer to Dreagon, as I'm pretty sure he's from Houston, but I don't know of any special affinity for one another between OK and Houston. Dallas maybe, but not Houston.


I would agree with that. Houston is on the other end of a large state from OK, and has little affinity with it. nd9kel makes a good point, but overall people here have more in common with Louisiana and New Orleans. Houston is also the edge of East Texas, pretty much making it the western border of the Deep South. Just an overall different place than OK, at least from a native POV.
Reality Fan
I am still laughing at all this speculation...Bradford is going to go where the money is the best....nothing more...nothing less...unless they tag him
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 06:05 AM) *
I am still laughing at all this speculation...Bradford is going to go where the money is the best....nothing more...nothing less...unless they tag him

Not quite.

Bradford will consider his role in the offense and the talent level around him. He's not going to sign for more money in Tennessee to understudy Mariota or more money in Cleveland.

Discussions with our new head coach and offensive co-ordinator will count just as much as a competitive offer from us. If he knows that the OL will be a priority then he's more likely to stay than if we're focussing on pass rushers and the secondary.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jan 16 2016, 04:26 AM) *
Not quite.

Bradford will consider his role in the offense and the talent level around him. He's not going to sign for more money in Tennessee to understudy Mariota or more money in Cleveland.

Discussions with our new head coach and offensive co-ordinator will count just as much as a competitive offer from us. If he knows that the OL will be a priority then he's more likely to stay than if we're focussing on pass rushers and the secondary.


wherever he winds up, it will be for starter money since there are so few competent QBs in the league. Tenn is out because they have their starter and Bradford wound up in Philly partially because he refused to go to Cleveland

I think he will go where the money is unless its a team like Cleveland. always bad, no chance to improve, bad FO, etc...
Zero
The only speculation is if the Eagles want Bradford. What Bradford wants isn't relevant. If they want him bad enough they tag him, if not they let him go. The only input Bradford would have is how much they pay him and for how long.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 16 2016, 10:12 AM) *
The only speculation is if the Eagles want Bradford. What Bradford wants isn't relevant. If they want him bad enough they tag him, if not they let him go. The only input Bradford would have is how much they pay him and for how long.


he can refuse to play under the tag....what Bradford wants matters
Zero
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Jan 16 2016, 10:51 AM) *
he can refuse to play under the tag....what Bradford wants matters

How many people do you know who would turn down $20 mil? He'd have to really, really hate the Eagles. But they could also tag him and trade him somewhere he wanted to go, assuming the team wanted him enough and could negotiate an agreeable deal. Recapture that lost #2?
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ Jan 16 2016, 10:56 AM) *
How many people do you know who would turn down $20 mil? He'd have to really, really hate the Eagles. But they could also tag him and trade him somewhere he wanted to go, assuming the team wanted him enough and could negotiate an agreeable deal. Recapture that lost #2?


hah would love to get that pick back!

lots of people (with Bradford's history) would turn down $20million with no security....for $40+million with security
mcnabbulous
I have to think Bradford is going to choose the situation more so than the money. He's a unique NFL player that has gotten absolutely paid already. While I'm sure he's seeking a big contract, I think he wants success above and beyond anything else.
Reality Fan
I am stunned by the naivete here...

This league is all about making as much money as possible in the short time they have in their careers....

The number of players sacrificing money for the better situation is nearly non-existent...it does not happen or maybe you thing Reggie went to Green Bay because god told him to......

Bradford will go where he gets the best deal...that is why he hired Tom Condon...because he gets the best deal...period.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 10:31 AM) *
I am stunned by the naivete here...

This league is all about making as much money as possible in the short time they have in their careers....

The number of players sacrificing money for the better situation is nearly non-existent...it does not happen or maybe you thing Reggie went to Green Bay because god told him to......

Bradford will go where he gets the best deal...that is why he hired Tom Condon...because he gets the best deal...period.

I would typically agree, but I really think Bradford is a slightly unique case. He will get paid, but he probably has a stronger desire to turn his career around than most.

If he weren't the last person to get a mega deal as the #1 pick, I would agree, but he has the financial luxury of being a little picky.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 16 2016, 11:40 AM) *
I would typically agree, but I really think Bradford is a slightly unique case. He will get paid, but he probably has a stronger desire to turn his career around than most.

If he weren't the last person to get a mega deal as the #1 pick, I would agree, but he has the financial luxury of being a little picky.



If he had anyone other than Condon I would agree.....

And Bradford is at the midpoint of his career and in a different position of a guy looking to turn his career around. He is poised for a bug payday...his turn-around was this last year....that was the proof that he could play post injury...he did that...now it is time to sign that big 4 year deal...
Joegrane
Thanks for the reply, Dreagon. So you don't think location will be much of an attraction for Bradford as he considers Houston as a landing spot? That's maybe 300miles vs 1000 from home. That's like Philly to Charlotte or Detroit. It is easy to forget how big Texas is.

quote name='Dreagon' date='Jan 16 2016, 12:26 AM' post='282574']
I would agree with that. Houston is on the other end of a large state from OK, and has little affinity with it. nd9kel makes a good point, but overall people here have more in common with Louisiana and New Orleans. Houston is also the edge of East Texas, pretty much making it the western border of the Deep South. Just an overall different place than OK, at least from a native POV.
[/quote]
Dreagon
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Jan 16 2016, 11:27 AM) *
Thanks for the reply, Dreagon. So you don't think location will be much of an attraction for Bradford as he considers Houston as a landing spot? That's maybe 300miles vs 1000 from home. That's like Philly to Charlotte or Detroit. It is easy to forget how big Texas is.


Houston is definitely a shorter trip from OK, but I guess I'm saying that it is different enough that he isn't going to be influenced by the city "feeling like home". And since he can afford all the plane tickets he wants, I think a place would need to be somewhere closer for it to become attractive to him based on sentimental reasons. Houston is kind of an odd combination of...
#1 New Orleans without the voodoo, jazz, or French Quarter
#2 San Antonio without the Alamo, riverwalk, and culture
#3 Dallas without a football team that has ever done anything.

It's....Houston


On the other hand, considering Houston's string of quarterback woes, combined with their drafting to low too go for a true blue chip in the first round, they may be willing to throw a bucket of money in a quarterback like Bradford's directio.
Rick
I agree, he's going to go for the best deal he can get. That may be a longer contract with a slightly lower average (per year) or a larger up front bonus or whatever. He's not stupid. He knows he's got a limited amount of time to earn at these salaries.

Sure, he wants to win--they ALL want to win--but I'd be SHOCKED if he took a lesser deal to go to a team that may be in a better position to win than the Eagles. BTW, what team would that be--that doesn't need a QB? Dallas? I'm guessing they'd pay him and pay him well (and it wouldn't surprise me if they go after him with Romo's age and health). Cleveland isn't closer than the Eagles and he's already said no to them once. Who else needs a QB badly and is in a better position than the Eagles? I don't think there are too many teams.

He's not stupid. He'll go for the money/longer contract....and he should.

For anyone to believe anything else is just plain crazy.

Joegrane
Yes, that is my concern. I think they also have 30mil in cap space and none of their biggest names need to be resigned.
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jan 16 2016, 12:53 PM) *
...
On the other hand, considering Houston's string of quarterback woes, combined with their drafting to low too go for a true blue chip in the first round, they may be willing to throw a bucket of money in a quarterback like Bradford's directio.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Jan 16 2016, 02:24 PM) *
I agree, he's going to go for the best deal he can get. That may be a longer contract with a slightly lower average (per year) or a larger up front bonus or whatever. He's not stupid. He knows he's got a limited amount of time to earn at these salaries.

Sure, he wants to win--they ALL want to win--but I'd be SHOCKED if he took a lesser deal to go to a team that may be in a better position to win than the Eagles. BTW, what team would that be--that doesn't need a QB? Dallas? I'm guessing they'd pay him and pay him well (and it wouldn't surprise me if they go after him with Romo's age and health). Cleveland isn't closer than the Eagles and he's already said no to them once. Who else needs a QB badly and is in a better position than the Eagles? I don't think there are too many teams.

He's not stupid. He'll go for the money/longer contract....and he should.

For anyone to believe anything else is just plain crazy.


Stop agreeing with me!!!..lolol

But you are right on both points.....Houston is about the only place but it will be a bidding war if that happens...
Reality Fan
The Texans are looking at Tom Savage or a possible draft pick.....they may resign Weeden to hold down the fort as either option grows...

According to their beat writers Hoyer is done....and a big contract for Bradford is not being considered...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 02:37 PM) *
The Texans are looking at Tom Savage or a possible draft pick.....they may resign Weeden to hold down the fort as either option grows...

According to their beat writers Hoyer is done....and a big contract for Bradford is not being considered...



Because the Texans are not considering him, does that mean he is not a good QB?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 16 2016, 02:44 PM) *
Because the Texans are not considering him, does that mean he is not a good QB?


Since the Texans thought Brian Hoyer was the answer does that reflect well on their view of QBs?

And what it means is that they may want to draft a guy and have a placeholder until that guy is ready.

Now you may find it wise to sign a QB to a mega contract to mentor a draft pick but I don't think you find too many of those situations in the NFL....where you give a guy $50 million guaranteed to stay for 2 years to teach a guy he is replacing...especially a guy from outside the organization.....

Maybe I am wrong but I think you sign a guy t oa big contract to lead your team, not train his replacement...

But I like the way you approach it...do your boys need someone to teach them basketball? Volleyball? I am expensive but damn good...lol



Endlessknight
Any change Pederson keeps Shurmur as OC?
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Endlessknight @ Jan 16 2016, 04:07 PM) *
Any change Pederson keeps Shurmur as OC?


not sure he will keep Shurmur, but the reason Bradford wanted Shurmur to stay is so that the offense wouldnt change too much, giving him more time to grow in the offense and get better. its going to change now

as i recall Shurmur (before that Chip BS) was a WCO guy and so is Pederson. i assume then that Shurmur ran WCO with Rams way back when. if so the presence of Shurmur wont matter as much since Bradford will have some familiarity with what the new coaches bring in
Phits
The best deal isn't just about the most money.

Reggie went to GB not because it was the most money. They gave him the best opportunity to win. At that time the Iggles D was 'all world' but the offense left much to be desired. We didn't have the necessary necessary.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 11:31 AM) *
I am stunned by the naivete here...

This league is all about making as much money as possible in the short time they have in their careers....

The number of players sacrificing money for the better situation is nearly non-existent...it does not happen or maybe you thing Reggie went to Green Bay because god told him to......

Bradford will go where he gets the best deal...that is why he hired Tom Condon...because he gets the best deal...period.

nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 03:17 PM) *
Since the Texans thought Brian Hoyer was the answer does that reflect well on their view of QBs?

And what it means is that they may want to draft a guy and have a placeholder until that guy is ready.

Now you may find it wise to sign a QB to a mega contract to mentor a draft pick but I don't think you find too many of those situations in the NFL....where you give a guy $50 million guaranteed to stay for 2 years to teach a guy he is replacing...especially a guy from outside the organization.....

Maybe I am wrong but I think you sign a guy t oa big contract to lead your team, not train his replacement...

But I like the way you approach it...do your boys need someone to teach them basketball? Volleyball? I am expensive but damn good...lol


So, if a team with a history of bad QB signings declines to offer him a huge contract, then it is an indication of that team's incompetence not Bradford's talent,
therefore, if teams that have a history of bad QB signings offer him a huge contract, then it is not an indication of his talent, but more of the offering team's ineptitude.

I love the semantics game. We all know that he'll get a real nice offer. It will be more of a statement on the bad market than his talent, IMO.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jan 16 2016, 04:48 PM) *
So, if a team with a history of bad QB signings declines to offer him a huge contract, then it is an indication of that team's incompetence not Bradford's talent,
therefore, if teams that have a history of bad QB signings offer him a huge contract, then it is not an indication of his talent, but more of the offering team's ineptitude.

I love the semantics game. We all know that he'll get a real nice offer. It will be more of a statement on the bad market than his talent, IMO.


lol....you must have been drinking today...but lets play it your way..

so if a team offers him a big contract as you say he will get because it is not about performance...your words....then they make bad QB decisions

if a team does not offer him a big contract than they are making bad QB decisions because he has the pedigree and performance does not matter...again...your words...

My point that you worked so hard to twist is that one of their(Houston) beat writers wrote an article detailing their QB situation for 2016 and a FA for 2016 was possible but unlikely and Bradford was expensive and likely a bad idea for Houston. Whether or not I think Houston makes or will make bad QB decisions is irrelevant.

And I think you can say that there are plenty of offers that are a reflection of bad markets in sports...you are just seeing that now? I have never said I think he is currently worth $20 million......I just realize that he is going to cost a lot.....I would much prefer to sign him for 10 but that is unlikely.....I would much rather have Brady et al...but again...unlikely....what I do see is the only guy who gives them a chance to win sooner rather than later....

That being said, it is all moot...they have a coach, a former QB, who will know what he wants from that position....say what you want about him but he knows that position
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 16 2016, 04:59 PM) *
lol....you must have been drinking today...but lets play it your way..

so if a team offers him a big contract as you say he will get because it is not about performance...your words....then they make bad QB decisions

if a team does not offer him a big contract than they are making bad QB decisions because he has the pedigree and performance does not matter...again...your words...

My point that you worked so hard to twist is that one of their(Houston) beat writers wrote an article detailing their QB situation for 2016 and a FA for 2016 was possible but unlikely and Bradford was expensive and likely a bad idea for Houston. Whether or not I think Houston makes or will make bad QB decisions is irrelevant.

And I think you can say that there are plenty of offers that are a reflection of bad markets in sports...you are just seeing that now? I have never said I think he is currently worth $20 million......I just realize that he is going to cost a lot.....I would much prefer to sign him for 10 but that is unlikely.....I would much rather have Brady et al...but again...unlikely....what I do see is the only guy who gives them a chance to win sooner rather than later....

That being said, it is all moot...they have a coach, a former QB, who will know what he wants from that position....say what you want about him but he knows that position



Your last paragraph is correct.

We'll see.
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