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nephillymike
You always hear about the "eye test".

So and so passes the eye test, or so and so doesn't meet the eye test etc.

I've watched the Chip Kelly offense for three years now, and even in it's current version with a dearth of talent, IMO, this offense works.

I see guys wide open in this system and even with iffy QB play and horrible WR play, they are not "NFL" open in the traditional sense, but many times they are "wide the fuck" open, which is very rare.

I see a back like Shady, get gobs of running room on the second level, OL down field blocking to extend runs, WR who block, unlike most teams.

I see opposing DL and OLB faking injuries and totally gassed late in games, unable to keep up. The best defensive player in the league "Hey 99, why you on one knee 99?"

I saw a supposed back up QB and a running game absolutely humiliate the Dallas Cowboys on Thanksgiving.

I saw this offense flourish in a fucking snowstorm while their RB ran rough shot in the blizzard.

I see a healthy reliance on the run game, and the huge benefits in play action that it provides.

I have now witnessed two QB's who can't run for shit, and another (Sanchez) who was marginal speed wise, and I have watched a coach foolishly still use read option looks, but even with that idiocy, I saw a run game when not using a slow back, do very well.

I saw a middle of the road offense this year (15th), despite poor line play, iffy QB play, horrendous WR play, while featuring a RB the majority of the year who didn't fit.

I am certain that this offense, especially if you leave an extra few seconds here and there for audibles and adding a few twists for variety that works in this league.

I am reminded every day now, +50, that my eyesight isn't what it once was, but I've watched a ton of football over the years, and I don't think I'm seeing things.

This offense works.

This is my only sadness with Chip leaving. Assuming the concepts leave with him, I think we're wasting an opportunity.

Anyone?
TO's Sharpie
In the first two years this offensive was ranked at the top of the NFL with the combination of Michael Vick, Nick Foles, and Mark Sanchez at Quarterback. It is not a gimmick and certainly does work.

Now the arguement that is strains the defense, does not exhibit traditional or smart clock management, and takes specific player skills sets to execute are legitimate. But based on just the offense, I saw something that was better than most.

Chip failed as a leader. It sounds like his inability to connect with people were his downfall. But the offensive principles here certainly work.
nephillymike
About that effect on the defense:

Our offense has the ball for 1508 seconds per game (25.14 minutes) and ran 69.2 plays per game, for an average of 21.8 seconds per play.

The average time of possession team, than ranked #16, they had 1817 seconds of possession per game and ran 64.4 plays per game for 28.2 seconds per play.

Our offense is throwing plays at 21.8 second per play while NOT ALLOWING THE D TO SUBSTITUTE.

Vs the average of 28.2 seconds per play WITH SUBSTITUTIONS.

That is a huge advantage for us while we're on offense.

Yes our D is on the field for 34.86 minutes per game, which is 2092 seconds and we have 69 ppg run on us, AND we have time to substitute. So yes we're on the field a lot, but we get 30.3 seconds between plays.

Because of the lack of substitutions that other teams are afforded because of pace, and the subs we can use on D because of the slower opposition pace, on a per player basis, the opposition's players are playing way more snaps per minute.

I'm sorry D. I can feel you but can't reach. Make a stop and get the fuck off the field!!
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (TO's Sharpie @ Dec 30 2015, 10:11 PM) *
In the first two years this offensive was ranked at the top of the NFL with the combination of Michael Vick, Nick Foles, and Mark Sanchez at Quarterback. It is not a gimmick and certainly does work.

Now the arguement that is strains the defense, does not exhibit traditional or smart clock management, and takes specific player skills sets to execute are legitimate. But based on just the offense, I saw something that was better than most.

Chip failed as a leader. It sounds like his inability to connect with people were his downfall. But the offensive principles here certainly work.

I agree with all of this.

The offense did get a bit stale this year, but I think much of that was personnel. It's a shame Chip couldn't get the relationship thing right.
Eyrie
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 31 2015, 04:42 AM) *
About that effect on the defense:

Our offense has the ball for 1508 seconds per game (25.14 minutes) and ran 69.2 plays per game, for an average of 21.8 seconds per play.

The average time of possession team, than ranked #16, they had 1817 seconds of possession per game and ran 64.4 plays per game for 28.2 seconds per play.

Our offense is throwing plays at 21.8 second per play while NOT ALLOWING THE D TO SUBSTITUTE.

Vs the average of 28.2 seconds per play WITH SUBSTITUTIONS.

That is a huge advantage for us while we're on offense.

Yes our D is on the field for 34.86 minutes per game, which is 2092 seconds and we have 69 ppg run on us, AND we have time to substitute. So yes we're on the field a lot, but we get 30.3 seconds between plays.

Because of the lack of substitutions that other teams are afforded because of pace, and the subs we can use on D because of the slower opposition pace, on a per player basis, the opposition's players are playing way more snaps per minute.

I'm sorry D. I can feel you but can't reach. Make a stop and get the fuck off the field!!

Snaps played is the only stat that matters.

Our defence did not face an extra 10-20 plays per game, so it's bullshit to claim that our offense made them work too hard.

And the critics of Kelly's offense always avoid explaining why the defence should be let off the hook for not doing its job and stopping the opponent's offense.
Zero
I think you make a good argument for keeping Shurmur in some capacity. HC or OC, create a hybrid Chipfense. But, maybe that's just the fan coming out of me.
HobbEs
It worked the first two years because it was new and no one had film on it. Three years in and everyone knows what's coming.

You could argue that this offense worked so well BECAUSE of Deshaun and Shady and that the pace or tempo was the icing on the cake. This year we lacked those dynamic players and you see the result. I think this offense can work in the NFL but clearly some adjustments need to be made.
Rick
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Dec 31 2015, 09:05 AM) *
It worked the first two years because it was new and no one had film on it. Three years in and everyone knows what's coming.

You could argue that this offense worked so well BECAUSE of Deshaun and Shady and that the pace or tempo was the icing on the cake. This year we lacked those dynamic players and you see the result. I think this offense can work in the NFL but clearly some adjustments need to be made.

The offense still worked this year but we had a QB who wasn't playing well early and receivers who can't catch the ball. Add the offensive line issues and we had an inconsistent offense. But it worked when guys did what they were supposed to do (on the most basic level).
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 31 2015, 04:40 AM) *
You always hear about the "eye test".

So and so passes the eye test, or so and so doesn't meet the eye test etc.

I've watched the Chip Kelly offense for three years now, and even in it's current version with a dearth of talent, IMO, this offense works.

I see guys wide open in this system and even with iffy QB play and horrible WR play, they are not "NFL" open in the traditional sense, but many times they are "wide the fuck" open, which is very rare.

I see a back like Shady, get gobs of running room on the second level, OL down field blocking to extend runs, WR who block, unlike most teams.

I see opposing DL and OLB faking injuries and totally gassed late in games, unable to keep up. The best defensive player in the league "Hey 99, why you on one knee 99?"

I saw a supposed back up QB and a running game absolutely humiliate the Dallas Cowboys on Thanksgiving.

I saw this offense flourish in a fucking snowstorm while their RB ran rough shot in the blizzard.

I see a healthy reliance on the run game, and the huge benefits in play action that it provides.

I have now witnessed two QB's who can't run for shit, and another (Sanchez) who was marginal speed wise, and I have watched a coach foolishly still use read option looks, but even with that idiocy, I saw a run game when not using a slow back, do very well.

I saw a middle of the road offense this year (15th), despite poor line play, iffy QB play, horrendous WR play, while featuring a RB the majority of the year who didn't fit.

I am certain that this offense, especially if you leave an extra few seconds here and there for audibles and adding a few twists for variety that works in this league.

I am reminded every day now, +50, that my eyesight isn't what it once was, but I've watched a ton of football over the years, and I don't think I'm seeing things.

This offense works.

This is my only sadness with Chip leaving. Assuming the concepts leave with him, I think we're wasting an opportunity.

Anyone?

No. Your eyes did not deceive you. It was a rough start, and there were holes to fill (O line, WR & D Coordinator) but it was beginning to come together.

Lurie just fucked us all because he listened to a handful of players griping during a losing season. Fucking ROOOKIE move for an otherwise good owner.

We are doooooooomed. Next season will have us all longing for the "glory days" of Marion Fucking Campbell.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 31 2015, 11:54 AM) *
No. Your eyes did not deceive you. It was a rough start, and there were holes to fill (O line, WR & D Coordinator) but it was beginning to come together.

Lurie just fucked us all because he listened to a handful of players griping during a losing season. Fucking ROOOKIE move for an otherwise good owner.

We are doooooooomed. Next season will have us all longing for the "glory days" of Marion Fucking Campbell.

No, he fucked us cause he listened to Howie.
Joegrane
Or even worse, the ten years from the late 60s to the late 70s (before Dick Vermeil & Jaws) when there was not even one team with a winning record. I was psychologically scarred for life growing up watching those teams!

I actually don't think things will be that bad. That was before free agency. A big market team such as the Eagles will be able to buy a team that is usually able to earn a .500 record. This is not Cleveland.

QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 31 2015, 12:54 PM) *
No. Your eyes did not deceive you. It was a rough start, and there were holes to fill (O line, WR & D Coordinator) but it was beginning to come together.

Lurie just fucked us all because he listened to a handful of players griping during a losing season. Fucking ROOOKIE move for an otherwise good owner.

We are doooooooomed. Next season will have us all longing for the "glory days" of Marion Fucking Campbell.

Zero
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Dec 31 2015, 02:33 PM) *
Or even worse, the ten years from the late 60s to the late 70s (before Dick Vermeil & Jaws) when there was not even one team with a winning record. I was psychologically scarred for life growing up watching those teams!

I actually don't think things will be that bad. That was before free agency. A big market team such as the Eagles will be able to buy a team that is usually able to earn a .500 record. This is not Cleveland.

The coach is what is relevant. The team doesn't need a huge influx of FA talent. OL and WR, depending on the coach, maybe QB. Does Bradford return or do they pursue Kaepernick if he's cut loose? Again, the coach will make the difference, not the FO structure.
Rick
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Dec 31 2015, 02:33 PM) *
Or even worse, the ten years from the late 60s to the late 70s (before Dick Vermeil & Jaws) when there was not even one team with a winning record. I was psychologically scarred for life growing up watching those teams!

I actually don't think things will be that bad. That was before free agency. A big market team such as the Eagles will be able to buy a team that is usually able to earn a .500 record. This is not Cleveland.

Who cares about .500. That means nothing. How about winning a friggin' SB!!?? Or at least being competitive with teams who are winning?
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 31 2015, 02:42 PM) *
The coach is what is relevant. The team doesn't need a huge influx of FA talent. OL and WR, depending on the coach, maybe QB. Does Bradford return or do they pursue Kaepernick if he's cut loose? Again, the coach will make the difference, not the FO structure.

The coach will suggest the type of player they need/want to operate their system and the GM and personnel evaluator will go and acquire said talent ... or something very close to the likeness.

Coach: I need an Aaron Rodgers type player to make my offense work.
GM: OK....Here's Colin Kaepernick. Make it work.
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 31 2015, 03:33 PM) *
The coach will suggest the type of player they need/want to operate their system and the GM and personnel evaluator will go and acquire said talent ... or something very close to the likeness.

Coach: I need an Aaron Rodgers type player to make my offense work.
GM: OK....Here's Colin Kaepernick. Make it work.

Probably, but what I meant to say is that the coach will be the attraction factor for FAs.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 31 2015, 02:33 PM) *
Coach: I need an Aaron Rodgers type player to make my offense work.
GM: OK....Here's Colin Kaepernick. Make it work.

This might be the funniest thing I've read on this board.
Joegrane
In Chip's first two years the Eagles offense was one of the most explosive in the league.

This year they were running around looking like idiots with dirty toilet paper hanging out of the back of their pants.

The coach did not change, the players did.

QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 31 2015, 02:42 PM) *
The coach is what is relevant. The team doesn't need a huge influx of FA talent. OL and WR, depending on the coach, maybe QB. Does Bradford return or do they pursue Kaepernick if he's cut loose? Again, the coach will make the difference, not the FO structure.

Joegrane
I understand that some fans are willing to endure many years of below .500 football in order to have one championship.

I'm not one such fan, maybe because I grew up watching loosing teams in the late 60's and 70s. I loved Andy Reid's Eagles that usually were strong playoff contenders in years that they did not have a huge number of injuries.

QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 31 2015, 03:29 PM) *
Who cares about .500. That means nothing. How about winning a friggin' SB!!?? Or at least being competitive with teams who are winning?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Joegrane @ Dec 31 2015, 06:19 PM) *
I understand that some fans are willing to endure many years of below .500 football in order to have one championship.

I'm not one such fan, maybe because I grew up watching loosing teams in the late 60's and 70s. I loved Andy Reid's Eagles that usually were strong playoff contenders in years that they did not have a huge number of injuries.

Andy was a godsend. The lack of appreciation for the guy is one of the dumbest things this fanbase has going for it.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2015, 07:31 PM) *
Andy was a godsend. The lack of appreciation for the guy is one of the dumbest things this fanbase has going for it.


AMEN!!!!
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