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Zero
Check out the tables in this article and notice the common thread for each successful coach.
Arians - Palmer
Reid - Smith
Harbaugh - Flacco
Tomlin - Roethlisberger
McCarthy - Rogers
Belichick - Brady
Carroll - Wilson
Payton - Brees
Rivera - Newton

Not only is talent the ultimate difference maker, but they all had a QB who they could build their system around. In my view, Bradford has begun to show that he can be that QB. A coach who actually fits the system to the key players will make a huge difference in the Eagles, and as we've all seemed to agree, that's something that Kelly and Davis haven't done.

So, not only is this an argument to keep a talented QB, but for Lurie to hire someone who will subscribe to the basic principle of putting round pegs in round holes and square pegs in square holes. It's not the talent that got Kelly fired, it's a combination of how he used it and how he interacted with it.
Phits
Bradford may not fit the system a new HC wants to implement.

Then again you can almost rest assure that any new HC and GM hire will go the traditional route in building their team. Seeing how the last regime (CK) was ousted very early in their term, the new figure heads will be conservative and non-inventive.

QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 30 2015, 08:52 AM) *
Check out the tables in this article and notice the common thread for each successful coach.
Arians - Palmer
Reid - Smith
Harbaugh - Flacco
Tomlin - Roethlisberger
McCarthy - Rogers
Belichick - Brady
Carroll - Wilson
Payton - Brees
Rivera - Newton

Not only is talent the ultimate difference maker, but they all had a QB who they could build their system around. In my view, Bradford has begun to show that he can be that QB. A coach who actually fits the system to the key players will make a huge difference in the Eagles, and as we've all seemed to agree, that's something that Kelly and Davis haven't done.

So, not only is this an argument to keep a talented QB, but for Lurie to hire someone who will subscribe to the basic principle of putting round pegs in round holes and square pegs in square holes. It's not the talent that got Kelly fired, it's a combination of how he used it and how he interacted with it.

BirdsWinBaby
I wonder why people completely disregard Bradford's injury history

He has never played 2 full seasons in a row. He is a tough SOB judging by some of the punishment he took this year but this was a contract year. If he can get back up, he does....but his career has been a string of times where he couldnt get back up

You are a new HC....is your first official act going to be hitching your wagon to Bradford's knees/shoulders/concussions?
Zero
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Dec 30 2015, 12:07 PM) *
I wonder why people completely disregard Bradford's injury history

He has never played 2 full seasons in a row. He is a tough SOB judging by some of the punishment he took this year but this was a contract year. If he can get back up, he does....but his career has been a string of times where he couldnt get back up

You are a new HC....is your first official act going to be hitching your wagon to Bradford's knees/shoulders/concussions?

If it had just been his shoulder in college and one ACL I doubt there'd be much concern. Didn't I read that the first ACL surgery either was bad or he rushed back? If true, I don't think that's insignificant.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Dec 30 2015, 06:07 PM) *
I wonder why people completely disregard Bradford's injury history

He has never played 2 full seasons in a row. He is a tough SOB judging by some of the punishment he took this year but this was a contract year. If he can get back up, he does....but his career has been a string of times where he couldnt get back up

You are a new HC....is your first official act going to be hitching your wagon to Bradford's knees/shoulders/concussions?


I think most new coaches want to build their team around their own players. However, sometimes you do not have a choice. The new Eagle's head coach has 3 options:

1. Stick with Bradford
2. Sing an FA QB (Griffin, Kaepernick, etc)
3. Draft a QB

Sticking with Bradford is a high risk, high reward situation. If it were me, I would try to keep Bradford and draft my kind of QB for development.


SAM I Am
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Dec 30 2015, 12:07 PM) *
You are a new HC....is your first official act going to be hitching your wagon to Bradford's knees/shoulders/concussions?

Definitely not for franchise money or a lengthy contract.

I'd give him a 2 to 3 year contract at what the average $ for QB in the league is making, with incentives.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Dec 30 2015, 12:15 PM) *
Definitely not for franchise money or a lengthy contract.

I'd give him a 2 to 3 year contract at what the average $ for QB in the league is making, with incentives.


Me thinks Tom Condon will tell the team Bradford signs with how long the contract will be....

Bradford now has leverage....
SLOiggles
What will be interesting to see is whether whomever the Eagles hire for their next head coach wants a veteran like Bradford...

Or...

Since we will likely have a top-10 pick, does the new regime/coach/whatever want to draft and groom a quarterback like Jared Goff?
D Rock
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Dec 30 2015, 07:26 PM) *
What will be interesting to see is whether whomever the Eagles hire for their next head coach wants a veteran like Bradford...

Or...

Since we will likely have a top-10 pick, does the new regime/coach/whatever want to draft and groom a quarterback like Jared Goff?

We won't have a top 10 pick. We don't even get that. Until we hear a reason OTHER than on field results, I think this move is too soon and reactionary on its face.
Reality Fan
he one thing I will say is that their defense can't help but get better.....

I think people will be surprised at how quickly this team will reverse fortune.......there is not the talent gulf existing that is being portrayed....rather a poor use of the existing talent....

I often trot out guys like Patrick Chung and Kurt Coleman..how did these guys look so awful here and then turn into studs elsewhere?....simple...coaching...

It will depend entirely on who the new coach is and what he wants to run....if he is a 4-3 guy on defense...is he a run first guy....but there is framework here to be good......a decent WR and a few serviceable OL a nd the offense is good again...

Get me Gruden.....
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 30 2015, 07:03 PM) *
he one thing I will say is that their defense can't help but get better.....

I think people will be surprised at how quickly this team will reverse fortune.......there is not the talent gulf existing that is being portrayed....rather a poor use of the existing talent....

I often trot out guys like Patrick Chung and Kurt Coleman..how did these guys look so awful here and then turn into studs elsewhere?....simple...coaching...

It will depend entirely on who the new coach is and what he wants to run....if he is a 4-3 guy on defense...is he a run first guy....but there is framework here to be good......a decent WR and a few serviceable OL a nd the offense is good again...

Get me Gruden.....


The defense in particular should improve quickly based on two things.

1. Billy Davis will be gone. He has been a failure at every stop in his DC career.
2. The defense will not be expected to play for 35+ minutes every week.
Eyrie
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 30 2015, 07:11 PM) *
The defense in particular should improve quickly based on two things.

1. Billy Davis will be gone. He has been a failure at every stop in his DC career.
2. The defense will not be expected to play for 35+ minutes every week.

The defence was not expected to play for 35 minutes every week - it was expected to stop the opposition.

A change of co-ordinator and an elite OLB will fix the problem. Unless the new guy wants to run a 4-3, in which case we will have to grit our teeth in 2016 whilst the adjustments to scheme and personnel are made.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 30 2015, 07:19 PM) *
The defence was not expected to play for 35 minutes every week - it was expected to stop the opposition.

A change of co-ordinator and an elite OLB will fix the problem. Unless the new guy wants to run a 4-3, in which case we will have to grit our teeth in 2016 whilst the adjustments to scheme and personnel are made.

It was an unrealistic expectation. No defense is going to be successful over the long haul playing what amounts to an extra game or two a season compared to your competitors. We now have two seasons in a row where the defense played progressively worse as the season wore on. I think the lopsided TOP was a factor both years.

If they go back to the 4-3, they will be OK on the line. They would still need that OLB.

Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 30 2015, 02:19 PM) *
The defence was not expected to play for 35 minutes every week - it was expected to stop the opposition.

A change of co-ordinator and an elite OLB will fix the problem. Unless the new guy wants to run a 4-3, in which case we will have to grit our teeth in 2016 whilst the adjustments to scheme and personnel are made.

This team may actually be better suited for a 4-3. Barwin is the SLB, Kendricks or Alonso as WLB, Hicks and Ryans minding the MLB. Get Graham to add weight back and play one DE and Curry on the other side. Cox, Logan and Allen rotate inside at DT. DBs aren't affected.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Dec 30 2015, 01:26 PM) *
Since we will likely have a top-10 pick, does the new regime/coach/whatever want to draft and groom a quarterback like Jared Goff?

I'm sure Doug Pederson's services would be available.
nd9kel
Lurie has officially condemned this franchise to mediocrity for the next five years easily. NO ONE will want to hitch their wagon to this sloppy organization. Lurie couldn't commit to anything when asked about criteria for a new GM It will be leadership by committee. How dumb. When does this Howie guy set sail?

Bradford will bail for sure. Why learn a new offense at this Keystone Kop place?

What owner spends time talking to players? Is this what he thinks of a chain of command? The inmates officially run the asylum? No would-be coach should put up with it.
Zero
QUOTE (D Rock @ Dec 30 2015, 01:36 PM) *
We won't have a top 10 pick. We don't even get that. Until we hear a reason OTHER than on field results, I think this move is too soon and reactionary on its face.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but if the Eagles lose to the Giants, aren't they picking #10?
Rick
QUOTE (nd9kel @ Dec 30 2015, 03:35 PM) *
Lurie has officially condemned this franchise to mediocrity for the next five years easily. NO ONE will want to hitch their wagon to this sloppy organization. Lurie couldn't commit to anything when asked about criteria for a new GM It will be leadership by committee. How dumb. When does this Howie guy set sail?

Bradford will bail for sure. Why learn a new offense at this Keystone Kop place?

What owner spends time talking to players? Is this what he thinks of a chain of command? The inmates officially run the asylum? No would-be coach should put up with it.

I tend to agree with you. I think this has set the team back 3-5 years. People can claim we have more talent than some think but the fact remains that we lack talent at the most important positions--QB, WR, OL. This isn't going to change over night.

The defense can improve with a better DC (IMO) but it won't be a dominant defense and, with the issues they have on offense, a dominant defense will be needed to be competitive with the elite teams in the NFL.

Can this team make the playoffs? When you consider the NFC East, yes. I don't see anyone getting appreciably-better in a short amount of time. So anyone in the NFC East can win it but that is just an illusion of being a good team. The Eagles are crushed by any of the good teams again next season.

More importantly, as has been pointed out, who will want to hitch their wagon to this trainwreck? Sure, a young/new coach will be willing and, sure, it could work out but, I think it'll be hard to bring any kind of veteran coach here.

The holes need to be filled and it's going to be hard for a new HC to come in and fill all of these holes quickly. It would be hard for Kelly to have done it quickly.

Not looking forward to another few years of not competing for a SB...
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 30 2015, 12:12 PM) *
Sticking with Bradford is a high risk, high reward situation.

Problem is that the "high reward" is still questionable. His professional career has been nothing but mediocre.
Eagle2720
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 30 2015, 03:20 PM) *
This team may actually be better suited for a 4-3. Barwin is the SLB, Kendricks or Alonso as WLB, Hicks and Ryans minding the MLB. Get Graham to add weight back and play one DE and Curry on the other side. Cox, Logan and Allen rotate inside at DT. DBs aren't affected.


I agree I would like to see a 4-3.. We also have Thorton in that DLine rotation too.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 30 2015, 08:20 PM) *
This team may actually be better suited for a 4-3. Barwin is the SLB, Kendricks or Alonso as WLB, Hicks and Ryans minding the MLB. Get Graham to add weight back and play one DE and Curry on the other side. Cox, Logan and Allen rotate inside at DT. DBs aren't affected.


QUOTE (Eagle2720 @ Dec 30 2015, 10:25 PM) *
I agree I would like to see a 4-3.. We also have Thorton in that DLine rotation too.


Promising thinking. We'd need a back up at SAM, and an elite DE (maybe move Cox?) to make it work.
Eagle2720
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 30 2015, 05:46 PM) *
Promising thinking. We'd need a back up at SAM, and an elite DE (maybe move Cox?) to make it work.


We still have Smith(LOL I know, but maybe some crazy reason Chip was holding him back).
Zero
QUOTE (nd9kel @ Dec 30 2015, 03:35 PM) *
Lurie has officially condemned this franchise to mediocrity for the next five years easily. NO ONE will want to hitch their wagon to this sloppy organization. Lurie couldn't commit to anything when asked about criteria for a new GM It will be leadership by committee. How dumb. When does this Howie guy set sail?

Bradford will bail for sure. Why learn a new offense at this Keystone Kop place?

What owner spends time talking to players? Is this what he thinks of a chain of command? The inmates officially run the asylum? No would-be coach should put up with it.

I think this is an overreaction. He did commit, Lurie clearly said he's not hiring a GM. Donahoe, Howie and the coach will do personnel by committee. This is the way it's been done since Lurie has been here. I think it's the way it's done in Pittsburg and I think Lurie copied that.

Bradford may need to learn a new system, but if he stays he won't be learning new players. That's a plus for the Eagles ... maybe not enough to keep him but better than having to get to know everyone new.

The owner talking to the players isn't bad, only when he's trying to fire them up before a game. And then it's not bad that the owner is doing because he's doing because the coach didn't do it. Kudos to him for doing what needed to be done and shame on Kelly for not doing it.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 30 2015, 05:46 PM) *
Promising thinking. We'd need a back up at SAM, and an elite DE (maybe move Cox?) to make it work.

Cox is a DT in a 4-3 I'd guess and Curry could be that elite DE. I think Graham will be better as a 4-3 DE also.
rumply
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 30 2015, 02:03 PM) *
he one thing I will say is that their defense can't help but get better.....

I think people will be surprised at how quickly this team will reverse fortune.......there is not the talent gulf existing that is being portrayed....rather a poor use of the existing talent....

I often trot out guys like Patrick Chung and Kurt Coleman..how did these guys look so awful here and then turn into studs elsewhere?....simple...coaching...

It will depend entirely on who the new coach is and what he wants to run....if he is a 4-3 guy on defense...is he a run first guy....but there is framework here to be good......a decent WR and a few serviceable OL a nd the offense is good again...

Get me Gruden.....



I basically agree with this. Many fans are quick to only see the worst in a team. There's plenty of talent there, address the OL, resign Bradford, add a WR or 2 that can catch, a few tweaks on defence & this thing can turn around quickly.

As for Gruden, why not? I do wonder though if he likes that cushy Monday Night gig a bit too much to ever leave.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 30 2015, 02:19 PM) *
The defence was not expected to play for 35 minutes every week - it was expected to stop the opposition.

A change of co-ordinator and an elite OLB will fix the problem. Unless the new guy wants to run a 4-3, in which case we will have to grit our teeth in 2016 whilst the adjustments to scheme and personnel are made.


Most of the players here are a fit for a 4-3.....that is the funny thing....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 30 2015, 03:54 PM) *
I tend to agree with you. I think this has set the team back 3-5 years. People can claim we have more talent than some think but the fact remains that we lack talent at the most important positions--QB, WR, OL. This isn't going to change over night.

The defense can improve with a better DC (IMO) but it won't be a dominant defense and, with the issues they have on offense, a dominant defense will be needed to be competitive with the elite teams in the NFL.

Can this team make the playoffs? When you consider the NFC East, yes. I don't see anyone getting appreciably-better in a short amount of time. So anyone in the NFC East can win it but that is just an illusion of being a good team. The Eagles are crushed by any of the good teams again next season.

More importantly, as has been pointed out, who will want to hitch their wagon to this trainwreck? Sure, a young/new coach will be willing and, sure, it could work out but, I think it'll be hard to bring any kind of veteran coach here.

The holes need to be filled and it's going to be hard for a new HC to come in and fill all of these holes quickly. It would be hard for Kelly to have done it quickly.

Not looking forward to another few years of not competing for a SB...


Simply ridiculous....I am sorry but this is the NFL...3-5 years is a lifetime.....

The Panthers were 7-8-1 last year..the Jets were 4-12...

The problem is you listen to a local media that is hell bent on sensationalism and a hate of Kelly....they do need a WR and some OL help.....but the rest is very serviceable....is it built to win it all? No....but it is in better shape than more than half the NFL right now.

And as most of the national media has pointed out.....this is a very desirable stop for a coach.....but my guess is they already know who the next coach is....McDermott....
Joegrane
That is a very good thing. That's why I'm hopeful they will be able to attract a quality 4-3 D coordinator or former DC as head coach.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 30 2015, 10:02 PM) *
Most of the players here are a fit for a 4-3.....that is the funny thing....

Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 03:02 AM) *
Most of the players here are a fit for a 4-3.....that is the funny thing....

And damning, when you consider that we had three years to change the personnel to suit a 3-4.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 30 2015, 10:10 PM) *
Simply ridiculous....I am sorry but this is the NFL...3-5 years is a lifetime.....

The Panthers were 7-8-1 last year..the Jets were 4-12...

The problem is you listen to a local media that is hell bent on sensationalism and a hate of Kelly....they do need a WR and some OL help.....but the rest is very serviceable....is it built to win it all? No....but it is in better shape than more than half the NFL right now.

And as most of the national media has pointed out.....this is a very desirable stop for a coach.....but my guess is they already know who the next coach is....McDermott....

Uh, no, I don't listen to local media, I am no longer local. I'm looking at this team, not as a fan, but as someone who is looking at the numbers. This team is in bad shape. Being better than half of the NFL at this point means nothing since more than half of the NFL sucks right now. There are a lot of holes. You can't fill this many holes in a short amount of time. Add to that a new coaching staff coming in and you're looking at a long time for rebuilding.

Add to this that players will become FAs, some will get hurt, etc. So, while you're filling the holes you've got, other holes will inevitably emerge. This isn't going to be a quick turnaround.

Can things turn around quicker? Depends on what you mean by quicker. Could they conceivably make the playoffs next season? In the NFC East, yes. Does it mean they're a contender with the rest of the NFL? Probably not. Until they get those gaping holes fixed, they'll not be a true contender.

Of course, I certainly hope I'm wrong on this. Time will tell.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 31 2015, 07:01 AM) *
Uh, no, I don't listen to local media, I am no longer local. I'm looking at this team, not as a fan, but as someone who is looking at the numbers. This team is in bad shape. Being better than half of the NFL at this point means nothing since more than half of the NFL sucks right now. There are a lot of holes. You can't fill this many holes in a short amount of time. Add to that a new coaching staff coming in and you're looking at a long time for rebuilding.

Add to this that players will become FAs, some will get hurt, etc. So, while you're filling the holes you've got, other holes will inevitably emerge. This isn't going to be a quick turnaround.

Can things turn around quicker? Depends on what you mean by quicker. Could they conceivably make the playoffs next season? In the NFC East, yes. Does it mean they're a contender with the rest of the NFL? Probably not. Until they get those gaping holes fixed, they'll not be a true contender.

Of course, I certainly hope I'm wrong on this. Time will tell.


Again...the Panthers were 7-8-1 last year.....they are 14-1 right now....fortunes turn every year.....last year they had Benjamin...great rookie...hurt this year....

Looking at it objectively it is hard to imagine a good DC not being able to take better advantage of the talent on this defense.....ironically better built to play a 4-3 than the 3-4 they insisted upon.....but even in a 3-4 they will benefit from the respite offered by a different offensive approach......they also need 3 holes filled on offense.....the WR spot the most important and here I agree with you...that will be tough to do...the OL...not a breeze to fill but much easier than an impact WR....a good coach and some luck and they are back in the hunt in 2 years.....keeping their own players will be easy next year because of the cap increase......
Zero
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 02:36 PM) *
Again...the Panthers were 7-8-1 last year.....they are 14-1 right now....fortunes turn every year.....last year they had Benjamin...great rookie...hurt this year....

Looking at it objectively it is hard to imagine a good DC not being able to take better advantage of the talent on this defense.....ironically better built to play a 4-3 than the 3-4 they insisted upon.....but even in a 3-4 they will benefit from the respite offered by a different offensive approach......they also need 3 holes filled on offense.....the WR spot the most important and here I agree with you...that will be tough to do...the OL...not a breeze to fill but much easier than an impact WR....a good coach and some luck and they are back in the hunt in 2 years.....keeping their own players will be easy next year because of the cap increase......

A couple of other things may be relevant too. Kelly insisted that Rowe, a S in college was a CB. Would they be better served if he were to return to S and move Thurmond (assuming he's resigned) back to CB? Is Matthews strictly a slot receiver or can be more effective as a #2 on the outside? DKD, but does Kelce stay at C with a new offense or do they go with more of a grader? The point is that Kelly wanted things a certain way and the new coach may, or will likely make changes. Those changes may benefit the team or not. We'll see.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 02:36 PM) *
Again...the Panthers were 7-8-1 last year.....they are 14-1 right now....fortunes turn every year.....last year they had Benjamin...great rookie...hurt this year....

Looking at it objectively it is hard to imagine a good DC not being able to take better advantage of the talent on this defense.....ironically better built to play a 4-3 than the 3-4 they insisted upon.....but even in a 3-4 they will benefit from the respite offered by a different offensive approach......they also need 3 holes filled on offense.....the WR spot the most important and here I agree with you...that will be tough to do...the OL...not a breeze to fill but much easier than an impact WR....a good coach and some luck and they are back in the hunt in 2 years.....keeping their own players will be easy next year because of the cap increase......

No way you can compare the Panthers last season with the Eagles this season. The Panthers still had Cam Newton--even if he was beaten up. We don't currently have a QB and certainly nobody with the skills of Newton.

The Panthers didn't have a lot of holes to fill. The Eagles, OTOH, have many. Unfortunately, QB and WR are two of those holes and are about the biggest holes you can have in the NFL. Even if Bradford decides to stay, he'll be learning (yet another) offense and I'm not 100% convinced he's the guy anyway. I don't see WR getting much better unless our guys start to play like #1 WRs. I agree the OL is the easiest hole to fill but that's only relative. And a new scheme--if it's a good one--should make the defense better.

Sure, they could win the NFC East next season because of how weak it is but that doesn't mean they're a true contender. I still don't see that happening for a number of years unless they get a good/great QB and the WR situation sorted out. I don't see either of these sorting themselves out anytime soon.

And, increased salary cap or not, if the team isn't getting better they'll lose some guys who want to go somewhere and win while they still can--and who can blame them? So we have no idea what holes will be created next season, etc.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 31 2015, 03:25 PM) *
No way you can compare the Panthers last season with the Eagles this season. The Panthers still had Cam Newton--even if he was beaten up. We don't currently have a QB and certainly nobody with the skills of Newton.

The Panthers didn't have a lot of holes to fill. The Eagles, OTOH, have many. Unfortunately, QB and WR are two of those holes and are about the biggest holes you can have in the NFL. Even if Bradford decides to stay, he'll be learning (yet another) offense and I'm not 100% convinced he's the guy anyway. I don't see WR getting much better unless our guys start to play like #1 WRs. I agree the OL is the easiest hole to fill but that's only relative. And a new scheme--if it's a good one--should make the defense better.

Sure, they could win the NFC East next season because of how weak it is but that doesn't mean they're a true contender. I still don't see that happening for a number of years unless they get a good/great QB and the WR situation sorted out. I don't see either of these sorting themselves out anytime soon.

And, increased salary cap or not, if the team isn't getting better they'll lose some guys who want to go somewhere and win while they still can--and who can blame them? So we have no idea what holes will be created next season, etc.


Now you are being silly.....and rewriting history...

Last year Rivera was on the hot seat after their season...Cam Newton missed 2 games, not 10...and his replacement won the 2 games he started..and were the Eagles healthy all year this year? Did I miss something? Did Bradford miss games? Did their starting OG not get hurt right out of the gate and go on IR? Their pro bowl kicker miss the season?

Lets face it...no matter what the Eagles do you are the type that thinks everyone sucks until they win the SB....I get the frustration....but this team is not Cleveland or Jax or even Chi......if..and it is a big if....Lurie hires a good coach...this will turn around quickly.....they do not have a bad roster.....they need some help but they are not bed....poorly motivated....and poorly managed perhaps....but they have more talent than you give them credit for..
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 31 2015, 01:48 PM) *
A couple of other things may be relevant too. Kelly insisted that Rowe, a S in college was a CB. Would they be better served if he were to return to S and move Thurmond (assuming he's resigned) back to CB? Is Matthews strictly a slot receiver or can be more effective as a #2 on the outside? DKD, but does Kelce stay at C with a new offense or do they go with more of a grader? The point is that Kelly wanted things a certain way and the new coach may, or will likely make changes. Those changes may benefit the team or not. We'll see.

Rowe was pretty awesome at corner this year. He and Hicks both look like cornerstones.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 05:19 PM) *
Now you are being silly.....and rewriting history...

Last year Rivera was on the hot seat after their season...Cam Newton missed 2 games, not 10...and his replacement won the 2 games he started..and were the Eagles healthy all year this year? Did I miss something? Did Bradford miss games? Did their starting OG not get hurt right out of the gate and go on IR? Their pro bowl kicker miss the season?

Lets face it...no matter what the Eagles do you are the type that thinks everyone sucks until they win the SB....I get the frustration....but this team is not Cleveland or Jax or even Chi......if..and it is a big if....Lurie hires a good coach...this will turn around quickly.....they do not have a bad roster.....they need some help but they are not bed....poorly motivated....and poorly managed perhaps....but they have more talent than you give them credit for..

I'm rewriting history? Did I miss something? Is Cam Newton not the type of franchise QB all franchises want? Do the Eagles have one? Hell, at this point, the Eagles don't even HAVE a QB! So, yeah, it's a much different situation.

So now you know what type of guy I am? That's pretty good since you know nothing about me.

This roster isn't horrible but it's not great either. And we all know where the holes are and, excuse me if I'm pessimistic about the prospect of them filling ALL of the holes immediately. Explain to me how all of these holes get filled quickly. Explain to me why this franchise--at this point and time--is better than Cleveland or Jax. Ok, maybe better than Cleveland but I live in Jacksonville so I'm quite familiar with them. They are trending in the right direction. They have a franchise QB. They have 2 receivers who are lights out. Their offense is clicking. Their defense needs help. Their #1 pick this season got hurt like 5 minutes into his first practice so they haven't had him on the field (arguably, you don't know how he'll pan out). He should be back next season and he should make the defense better. They have far fewer holes than the Eagles do right now.

Depending on whom they can attract to coach this team will make all the difference on whether guys will want to come here in FA and if guys here will want to stay. What if all of the good candidates determine the situation (with personnel) is too much of a PITA? What if they have to go to our 3rd or 4th or worse coach on the list? Sure, things can work out but, realistically, it's much less-likely they would.

I don't know what's going to happen with a HC search. They'll get one and nothing I do/say will make a difference in whom it will be. I do know there are MAJOR holes, which need to be filled and it's not going to be something they can fill quickly. Yes, some of the guys they have could wind up working out--and that would be AWESOME--but I don't think anyone is betting on the current roster to work out all of the kinks to fill the holes.

You seem to be the typical Eagles fan that believes the team is always in the running. That's great and all but it's also unrealistic with the available information.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 31 2015, 05:41 PM) *
I'm rewriting history? Did I miss something? Is Cam Newton not the type of franchise QB all franchises want? Do the Eagles have one? Hell, at this point, the Eagles don't even HAVE a QB! So, yeah, it's a much different situation.

So now you know what type of guy I am? That's pretty good since you know nothing about me.

This roster isn't horrible but it's not great either. And we all know where the holes are and, excuse me if I'm pessimistic about the prospect of them filling ALL of the holes immediately. Explain to me how all of these holes get filled quickly. Explain to me why this franchise--at this point and time--is better than Cleveland or Jax. Ok, maybe better than Cleveland but I live in Jacksonville so I'm quite familiar with them. They are trending in the right direction. They have a franchise QB. They have 2 receivers who are lights out. Their offense is clicking. Their defense needs help. Their #1 pick this season got hurt like 5 minutes into his first practice so they haven't had him on the field (arguably, you don't know how he'll pan out). He should be back next season and he should make the defense better. They have far fewer holes than the Eagles do right now.

Depending on whom they can attract to coach this team will make all the difference on whether guys will want to come here in FA and if guys here will want to stay. What if all of the good candidates determine the situation (with personnel) is too much of a PITA? What if they have to go to our 3rd or 4th or worse coach on the list? Sure, things can work out but, realistically, it's much less-likely they would.

I don't know what's going to happen with a HC search. They'll get one and nothing I do/say will make a difference in whom it will be. I do know there are MAJOR holes, which need to be filled and it's not going to be something they can fill quickly. Yes, some of the guys they have could wind up working out--and that would be AWESOME--but I don't think anyone is betting on the current roster to work out all of the kinks to fill the holes.

You seem to be the typical Eagles fan that believes the team is always in the running. That's great and all but it's also unrealistic with the available information.


Here is how great Carolina was last year...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/carolina-panther...-be-fired-today

and now for the rest.....

First...Jax has fewer holes? They have one of the worst defenses in the league....maybe all their pro bowl players on that D might help...oh wait....they have none....and funny you should mention Jax....the destination for another Philly coaching option....how is that working after 3 years? You seem to be the typical Eagles fan...always thinking you know more than you do and always ignoring the reality of the situation. I am not saying the Eagles will be good or great...I am saying the situation is not as dire as some say. We heard this same crap when Reid left except...no QB....Maclin is always hurt...Jackson is a one trick pony.....the team was 4-12 the year before...and then they went 10-6...twice. Bradley has won 12 games in 3 years so spare me the "jax is on the cusp of greatness" bullshit. Funny that you should accuse me of being a pie eyed fan when you trot out that example...

And while I am at it.....Newton is having a great year...but it only his 2nd winning season in 6 years....6!.....He is not the manning brothers......or even Joe Flacco...

The situation in Philly has some real concerns and who will make personnel decisions is top on the list...but they will get the pick of the litter for coaching...they are a major market team with stable ownership....Candidates will know why Chip got fired...the real reason which we will likely never know. They will also be paid well....the issue as you have said and I agreed hinge on getting some WR help.....that is the hard part.....

mcnabbulous
Me thinks everyone has fucked up expectations for young QBs
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 06:27 PM) *
And while I am at it.....Newton is having a great year...but it only his 2nd winning season in 6 years....6!.....He is not the manning brothers......or even Joe Flacco...

This will also be his third consecutive division title....in six years....third.

He hasn't reached his prime yet and I would take him before both Eli and Flacco (in their respective prime). He would be great in an Eagles uniform. He plays like a young McNabb, before he abandoned the run.
Reality Fan
[quote name='Phits' date='Dec 31 2015, 08:00 PM' post='281409']
This will also be his third consecutive division title....in six years....third.

He hasn't reached his prime yet and I would take him before both Eli and Flacco (in their respective prime). He would be great in an Eagles uniform. He plays like a young McNabb, before he abandoned the run.
[/quote

I think it may have a lot to do with having a top 5 defense....last year the defense played poorly...injuries to a degree...and the result was that Newton could not compensate....this year the D is back in the top ten...this stuff is not hard to find...honest

Newton is a good QB.....and the reference to McNabb is accurate...lets see what he does in the playoffs.....I like the guy and I hope he does well....I just don't know that he is a top 5 QB......his completion % is certainly not impressive....he can run and that helps him....but if they take that away...
mcnabbulous
This is only his 5th year. As a rookie, he improved the 32nd rated scoring offense to the 5th rated. The guy is a stud.

His accuracy isn't elite, but he also plays in an offense where he throws the ball down the field.
TO's Sharpie

[/quote



Newton is a good QB.....and the reference to McNabb is accurate...lets see what he does in the playoffs.....I like the guy and I hope he does well....I just don't know that he is a top 5 QB......his completion % is certainly not impressive....he can run and that helps him....but if they take that away...
[/quote]

The complete % is low, but I believe his yards per attempt is actually tops in the league. He does not get the benefit of dinking and dunking.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2015, 08:27 PM) *
This is only his 5th year. As a rookie, he improved the 32nd rated scoring offense to the 5th rated. The guy is a stud.

His accuracy isn't elite, but he also plays in an offense where he throws the ball down the field.


correct....

started every game as a rookie...
6-10
7-9
12-4
7-8-1(missed 2 games...both wins for Carolina)
14-1

and as far as throwing downfield....
ummm..no
Eagles are ranked 5th with 11 passing plays of 40+ yads while Carolina is ranked 26th with 5
20+ yards have the Eagles at 11th with 52....Carolina is ranked 29th with 38...go figure...

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (TO's Sharpie @ Dec 31 2015, 10:00 PM) *
The complete % is low, but I believe his yards per attempt is actually tops in the league. He does not get the benefit of dinking and dunking.

He's 10th, but given his lower completion %, the statement holds up. 20+ and 40+ passes isn't the only way to look at it.

Bradford is 26th in ypa despite completing 5.4% higher. To put it into perspective, all 3 of our running backs have more catches than any of Carolina's.
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2015, 06:27 PM) *
Here is how great Carolina was last year...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/carolina-panther...-be-fired-today

and now for the rest.....

First...Jax has fewer holes? They have one of the worst defenses in the league....maybe all their pro bowl players on that D might help...oh wait....they have none....and funny you should mention Jax....the destination for another Philly coaching option....how is that working after 3 years? You seem to be the typical Eagles fan...always thinking you know more than you do and always ignoring the reality of the situation. I am not saying the Eagles will be good or great...I am saying the situation is not as dire as some say. We heard this same crap when Reid left except...no QB....Maclin is always hurt...Jackson is a one trick pony.....the team was 4-12 the year before...and then they went 10-6...twice. Bradley has won 12 games in 3 years so spare me the "jax is on the cusp of greatness" bullshit. Funny that you should accuse me of being a pie eyed fan when you trot out that example...

And while I am at it.....Newton is having a great year...but it only his 2nd winning season in 6 years....6!.....He is not the manning brothers......or even Joe Flacco...

The situation in Philly has some real concerns and who will make personnel decisions is top on the list...but they will get the pick of the litter for coaching...they are a major market team with stable ownership....Candidates will know why Chip got fired...the real reason which we will likely never know. They will also be paid well....the issue as you have said and I agreed hinge on getting some WR help.....that is the hard part.....

Apparently you missed the memo...Cam Newton is a pretty damn good QB. Currently, after Sunday, the Eagles DON'T have a QB...not even a good one. Oh wait, Sanchez is still here. I guess I'm wrong there. So I guess you're saying you wouldn't want Newton on the Eagles because he's only had 2 winning seasons so far?

You're the one acting as if you know more than anyone else. I'm pointing out the facts. The Eagles have holes. Unfortunately, those holes are going to be extremely difficult to fill in a short period of time with a new HC coming in and with the front office in a bit of turmoil. You're the typical Eagles fan who always seems to think they're better than they actually are. Funny how many of the people who get paid to watch this stuff all day and write/speak about it all are saying a lot of the same things about the holes the Eagles have and how this mess has been handled. But I guess you're smarter than all of those people, too...

And where, exactly, did I say Jacksonville is on the cusp of greatness? All I said--paraphrasing here--is they have less holes than the Eagles do. Their offense is quite good and Bortles has turned into a very good QB on the verge of a great QB. They have great receivers. Their defense needs help for sure but they should get help with their #1 pick from this year coming back next season. They'll get a good draft pick this season and can draft more help on defense. No, they're not on the verge of winning a SB but they're closer than the Eagles are, which is just plain sad for so many reasons. Oh wait, let me make sure you understand I'm not saying they're winning a SB anytime soon. I'm saying, relatively-speaking, at this point in time, they are closer than the Eagles are to that goal although both teams are far FAR away.

Are the Eagles going to get the pick of the litter? I guess it depends on who you think are the pick of the litter. I'd be shocked if some of the great coaches with a pedigree would want to come to this mess at this time. Yeah, some of the other hot potential coaches will want to come here because they just need a shot. But who knows how good they'll really do? Lots of great coordinators, etc have gotten their shot and failed. And, if not having a HC is not a huge hole in the team to you, then, honestly, there's nothing more to discuss. It all starts there. None of the other holes can truly be filled until that's sorted out and then, it'll depend on who it is on whether they can get guys to come to Philly.

I don't understand how anyone can look at this team right now and say they're not in bad shape and don't have a long way to get back to being a true contender. I'm not talking about making the playoffs, I'm talking about having a reasonable shot at winning a SB. That is, afterall, what we all want, correct?
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2015, 08:27 PM) *
This is only his 5th year. As a rookie, he improved the 32nd rated scoring offense to the 5th rated. The guy is a stud.

His accuracy isn't elite, but he also plays in an offense where he throws the ball down the field.

Thank you. At least some of us around here understand what a stud Newton is.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 1 2016, 10:06 AM) *
He's 10th, but given his lower completion %, the statement holds up. 20+ and 40+ passes isn't the only way to look at it.

Bradford is 26th in ypa despite completing 5.4% higher. To put it into perspective, all 3 of our running backs have more catches than any of Carolina's.


you know...I would agree about the 40+ alone...but the 20+ is a clear indicator...

Cam does not throw the ball downfield all that much........he throws short passes to Greg Olson...and short outs to the WRs......

Hard to argue the numbers......if Carolina is an offense that throws downfield...the Eagles are the Fout's led Chargers..lol

And Cam is doing well.....but since the bye...when everyone has noticed the change is Bradford and his confidence in his knee and footwork his YPA is 7.45 over 6 games(frankly an amazing number with these skillet handed WRs)..and those 6 games have a good deal of his downfield throws...go figure...

But I digress.....you discount the only numbers you can use to gauge an offense....a disturbing pattern....you discount anything that disproves your point......but this case is pretty simple....they either go downfield which if true would have a high number of long plays....or they don't and would not have a large number of long plays.....

We know the answer....the numbers do not lie in this case....it is really simple.

mcnabbulous
There is a big difference between throwing to your TEs and WRs and dumping off to your RBs. Your usage of arbitrary yards markers down the field doesn't change that. Throwing a 7-12 yard out is more difficult that completing the 115 balls that we have completed to our top-3 RBs.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 1 2016, 03:15 PM) *
There is a big difference between throwing to your TEs and WRs and dumping off to your RBs. Your usage of arbitrary yards markers down the field doesn't change that. Throwing a 7-12 yard out is more difficult that completing the 115 balls that we have completed to our top-3 RBs.


I don't disagree regarding accuracy but you you said the Carolina offense is an offense that throws downfield when it clearly does not......had our WRs actually caught the ball then the offense would have looked markedly different but why throw to guys regularly who can't catch....

that being said...regardless of who you throw the ball to if you rank in the 20s for plays of 20 yards or more you are not throwing downfield.....you are throwing short passes....no matter who is catching them...and any short pass is a high % play whether it is a 5 yard out to a WR or a RB......granted a dump off to a RB is a bit more but with the coverages today the cushion is so great that the difference is minimal...
mcnabbulous
Dude, downfield is not a defined term. You don't think Cam Newton's shitty wide receivers, led by Ted Ginn, dropped a few balls?

Cam has thrown for the 7th most air yards (passing yards minus yac) in football. Sam is 23rd.

Cam has thrown for 2,233 air yards on 275 completions for an average of 8.12 yards in the air per completion.

Sam has thrown for 1,554 air yards on 316 completions for an average of 4.92.

Now, if we consider your statistics about how many deep passes each has completed, it's even more telling that Sam's average air yards per completion is so significantly lower.

I don't think throwing the ball 20 yards is downfield. I think not dumping the ball of to running backs is downfield. Cam doesn't do it often, which hurts his completion %.
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