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Zero
I can't buy that Kaepernick is a terrible QB. He's not in the same class as Brady, et al, but he I thought he has the talent to win the SB if he has the right players/coach around him. What would you give up for him? One of our #3's?
QUOTE
Kaepernick, who under head coach Jim Harbaugh took the San Francisco 49ers to one Super Bowl and if a backup punt returner could catch a punt could have taken them to two, was benched Monday according to reports.

For Blaine Gabbert.
Here ...

For those who were expecting something else ...
Dreagon
I don't know. He was really good for a while, but I get the feeling that the NFL figured him out.

And lately there has been the matter of his vision
mcnabbulous
He's not good and he's never been good. Harbaugh was a great coach that masked his deficiencies. The league also hadn't learned how to handle him.

Chip might be able to get some immediate success, but he is not the answer.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 3 2015, 09:25 AM) *
I can't buy that Kaepernick is a terrible QB. He's not in the same class as Brady, et al, but he I thought he has the talent to win the SB if he has the right players/coach around him. What would you give up for him? One of our #3's?
Here ...

I would take a chance on Kap. He's still a work in progress, his early success may have jaded him but he has tremendous upside. The problem is his contract. It would be a very expensive experiment.

QUOTE
For those who were expecting something else ...

Yes.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 09:42 AM) *
He's not good and he's never been good. Harbaugh was a great coach that masked his deficiencies.

I disagree. Harbaugh was not a great coach. He was in an ideal situation and coached his way out of it. His teams were stacked. He could have stuck with Alex Smith, who, while not a great QB was what SF needed. Somebody that was accurate and could consistently move the chains and not turn the ball over. They had a stout defense that could handle the rest.
QUOTE
The league also hadn't learned how to handle him.

The league learns how to handle everybody. Your job, as an OC, HC or QB, is to execute and evolve as well.
mcnabbulous
He's gotten worse every year he has been a starter. That should tell you everything you need to know.
make_it_rain
It wouldnt surprise me at all if Kap was released at the end of the season, due to the way his contract is structured. I wouldnt expect him to be able to come in in Week 9 and miraculously turn the season around anyway so might as well hold on to the few draft picks we've got and if you feel like taking a flyer go after him in the offseason and sign him to a new deal.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 10:49 AM) *
He's gotten worse every year he has been a starter. That should tell you everything you need to know.

The entire team has gotten worse every year. That's a black mark on the franchise, not just individual players.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 09:49 AM) *
He's gotten worse every year he has been a starter. That should tell you everything you need to know.


Sounds like Bradford in that regard.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 09:24 AM) *
Sounds like Bradford in that regard.

That's not true. Bradford was on pace for a very nice season prior to his first knee injury. His 3rd and 4th seasons were both improvements after having a down year his sophomore season.

Hyperbole doesn't help your argument. Kaepernick legitimately has gotten worse as a passer every year, by nearly every measurable component.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2015, 09:22 AM) *
The entire team has gotten worse every year. That's a black mark on the franchise, not just individual players.

It starts with the guy under centre. He's not good.

The league wasn't ready for his read option and athleticism when he came into the league. Once they got that under control, it forced him to become a real quarterback, which he is not.

He's one of those guys that plays better when the play breaks down. That's a bad, bad sign. If his first read isn't there, he's toast. Bradford has shown some similar signs of that, which is my biggest problem with him.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 11:33 AM) *
The league wasn't ready for his read option and athleticism when he came into the league. Once they got that under control, it forced him to become a real quarterback, which he is not.

That's an indication of poor coaching as much as it is talent.

Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 11:30 AM) *
That's not true. Bradford was on pace for a very nice season prior to his first knee injury. His 3rd and 4th seasons were both improvements after having a down year his sophomore season.

Re: Bradford, His numbers suggest that he has not lived up to the promise he showed in his rookie season. His career numbers are quite similar to what he has provided in Philly. I'm starting to think that Bradford and Shurmur are in cahoots.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2015, 09:54 AM) *
That's an indication of poor coaching as much as it is talent.

Not really. He can't play in the pocket. There isn't much coaching can do about that. Usually that trait is learned long before a guy makes it to the NFL.

The problem was evaluation. Kaepernick was the same guy in college that he is today. He's basically Michael Vick.
Birdman420
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 12:07 PM) *
Not really. He can't play in the pocket. There isn't much coaching can do about that. Usually that trait is learned long before a guy makes it to the NFL.

The problem was evaluation. Kaepernick was the same guy in college that he is today. He's basically Michael Vick.


except slower and with a weaker arm. He does have good throw on the run traits.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 10:30 AM) *
That's not true. Bradford was on pace for a very nice season prior to his first knee injury. His 3rd and 4th seasons were both improvements after having a down year his sophomore season.

Hyperbole doesn't help your argument. Kaepernick legitimately has gotten worse as a passer every year, by nearly every measurable component.


His rookie season was his best, and this looks to be his worst.

Might not be as even of a decline, but it's a trend nonetheless.
xsv
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 11:41 AM) *
His rookie season was his best, and this looks to be his worst.

Might not be as even of a decline, but it's a trend nonetheless.


Actually just went and looked up his career stats again, and you're right. he's pretty much sucked equally throughout his career.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 10:41 AM) *
His rookie season was his best, and this looks to be his worst.

Might not be as even of a decline, but it's a trend nonetheless.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but his 3rd and 4th seasons were better from a passing perspective than his rookie year.

I'm skeptical about Bradford, but the guy is coming off a 1.5 year layoff and playing on a newly reconstructed knee. That almost always takes time. He needs to improve, no doubt, but it's not a completely dire situation yet.
Zero
Rumor has it the Eagles have asked for his medical records. No link, street rumor.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 11:48 AM) *
I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but his 3rd and 4th seasons were better from a passing perspective than his rookie year.

I'm skeptical about Bradford, but the guy is coming off a 1.5 year layoff and playing on a newly reconstructed knee. That almost always takes time. He needs to improve, no doubt, but it's not a completely dire situation yet.


He's playing pretty close to his career averages in almost every category.

It's not dire, but I think we know what we've got in him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 10:59 AM) *
He's playing pretty close to his career averages in almost every category.

It's not dire, but I think we know what we've got in him.

Sure, but career averages are kind of deceiving. Given his age, shouldn't we be hopeful for something closer to his career bests?

He was okay as a rookie and bad his second season, but his 3rd and 4th were tracking in the right direction. That, at minimum, is what we should be hoping for. He's been well below that, this year. I'm sure the layoff and getting comfortable on the knee are playing a role.
Phits
Kap's career numbers are eerily similar to Bradford's.
Kap
Bradford
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 12:09 PM) *
Sure, but career averages are kind of deceiving. Given his age, shouldn't we be hopeful for something closer to his career bests?

He was okay as a rookie and bad his second season, but his 3rd and 4th were tracking in the right direction. That, at minimum, is what we should be hoping for. He's been well below that, this year. I'm sure the layoff and getting comfortable on the knee are playing a role.


Looks to me like his career best was a bit of a mirage. He will probably still get a little better. But I doubt we'll ever see better than average play out of him.

IMO, he's got limited upside. Even his career best isn't good enough.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 11:27 AM) *
Looks to me like his career best was a bit of a mirage. He will probably still get a little better. But I doubt we'll ever see better than average play out of him.

IMO, he's got limited upside. Even his career best isn't good enough.

I don't know why people just assume that what a QB does his first and second year defines him.

If you look at ESPN's QBR, only one of the top-10 guys is under the age of 30 (Dalton). It's literally the most difficult occupation in sports and everyone expects guys straight out of college to master it.

Look at things like a guy's ability to go through progressions, make throws, etc...

Don't get hung up on the mistakes. Those growing pains are a natural part of the process. If a guy isn't throwing a bunch of interceptions early in his career, it's likely a sign that he's not actually willing to make many throws. That's my biggest concern with Bradford.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 02:24 PM) *
I don't know why people just assume that what a QB does his first and second year defines him.

If you look at ESPN's QBR, only one of the top-10 guys is under the age of 30 (Dalton). It's literally the most difficult occupation in sports and everyone expects guys straight out of college to master it.

Look at things like a guy's ability to go through progressions, make throws, etc...

Don't get hung up on the mistakes. Those growing pains are a natural part of the process. If a guy isn't throwing a bunch of interceptions early in his career, it's likely a sign that he's not actually willing to make many throws. That's my biggest concern with Bradford.



Even at his best, he wasn't a top-10 guy. And, his ability to go through his progressions and see the field clearly before checking down is one of his weaknesses. His "accuracy" and completion percentage is a mirage, created by a zillion 5 yard passes.

There is no one on the planet rooting harder for the guy than me on game day. But he really doesn't look like much to me and I doubt he'll be here next year.
Zero
Knowing stats don't tell the whole story, here's a bit of a surprise:
Rk Player Pct Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int Sck Rate

29 Marcus Mariota 64 1,239 7.7 247.8 9 5 19 93.2

25 Cam Newton 54.2 1,523 7.1 217.6 11 8 13 78.1

21 Colin Kaepernick 59.3 1,615 6.6 201.9 6 5 28 78.8

20 Andrew Luck 54.9 1,629 6.3 271.5 13 12 14 71.6

17 Sam Bradford 62 1,766 6.4 252.3 9 10 13 76.4
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 3 2015, 02:11 PM) *
Even at his best, he wasn't a top-10 guy.

At his best, he was 26 and in his 4th year. That's basically when Rodgers became a starter.

QUOTE
And, his ability to go through his progressions and see the field clearly before checking down is one of his weaknesses. His "accuracy" and completion percentage is a mirage, created by a zillion 5 yard passes.

Definitely. And as I said, it's my biggest concern with him. I just think people get too hung up on the mistakes that young QB's make. Bradford not throwing a lot of picks early in his career doesn't impress me nearly as much as some others around here.

QUOTE
There is no one on the planet rooting harder for the guy than me on game day. But he really doesn't look like much to me and I doubt he'll be here next year.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think regarding the future. He definitely needs to make more plays if he wants to stick around.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 3 2015, 05:21 PM) *
Definitely. And as I said, it's my biggest concern with him. I just think people get too hung up on the mistakes that young QB's make. Bradford not throwing a lot of picks early in his career doesn't impress me nearly as much as some others around here.

What constitutes " a lot" of picks?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2015, 04:52 PM) *
What constitutes " a lot" of picks?

Less about a specific number, but a lot of people commended him for his low INT %
Zero
Looking at those stats Bradford doesn't look too bad in comparison to the other players. More relevant to this thread, compare Kap to Cam. I heard Dawk talking about that on 97.5 this afternoon. If someone told you Newton would be available at the end of the year and asked you if you'd try to sign him, how many would turn away? That Kaepernick could be released in January may seal the deal with Bradford though ... as long as Kelly thinks he can turn him around.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Nov 3 2015, 12:37 PM) *
except slower and with a weaker arm. He does have good throw on the run traits.


while he may be a little slower his arm strength is likely better than Vick's.....Kapernick has a cannon....part of his baseball background...
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 3 2015, 12:12 PM) *
Kap's career numbers are eerily similar to Bradford's.
Kap
Bradford



They benched him with a QB rating of 78????

Imagine that!

Psst

hey Chip...........
nephillymike
I'll be brief:


No

and

Yes

You guys can figure out which is which. wub.gif
Zero
One is benched, the other an MVP candidate.
Phits
One is undefeated, the other has scored less than 7 points in 3 of their last 5 games.

QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 4 2015, 09:39 AM) *
Zero
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 4 2015, 10:46 AM) *
One is undefeated, the other has scored less than 7 points in 3 of their last 5 games.

As to undefeated, I'd submit the team as a whole (players and coaches) has something to do with that. I also doubt that the 7 points is only due to the QB.
Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 4 2015, 04:03 PM) *
As to undefeated, I'd submit the team as a whole (players and coaches) has something to do with that. I also doubt that the 7 points is only due to the QB.

Agreed. That's why stats are subjective.
nephillymike
Put Bradford in that graphic and it's a tri-fold mirror!!
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